FUT with Dr Diep 4000 grafts - not satisfied

[Fue3361]

1 hour ago, Nairphss said:

You had an anesthesiologist.  It’s completely different scenario. Apples and oranges bro. 

BTW your surgeon did a really good job, If i remember your thread correctly. Who did you get your surgery from and how did you find them?

Thiago Bianco Leal, in Brazil.

 

He worked on multiple Brazilian celebrities and is considered by many Brazilians as the best in Brazil. 
 

As to how I found him, was like 2 years ago, not sure what I searched for exactly.  I was looking at many different places.  Only major con is the waiting list, might be at like 2 years now.  I waited over a year.

[Fue3361]

42 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

I understand your point, but if you are awake you can actually count the grafts as they are implanted, to make sure you are getting what you expect. Also, to know who the hell is operating on your head (is it the doctor, a technician, who??)

How do you plan to count them?  Use a mirror and watch the whole time?

[HappyMan2021]

29 minutes ago, Fue3361 said:

Only major con is the waiting list, might be at like 2 years now.  I waited over a year.

did you have any opportunity to move up your surgery date at all? no last minute cancellations that you could have gotten squeezed in? 

For my next HT I'm definitely going to an elite surgeon, but these 9 month-2 year waitlists are so off-putting. With work and life in general its hard to plan for surgery so far in advance. 

[asterix0]

33 minutes ago, Fue3361 said:

How do you plan to count them?  Use a mirror and watch the whole time?

I assumed your surgeon used some method to count them, either via a machine or verbally. Otherwise, how would his nurses/assistants, and himself, be able to keep track?

[Fue3361]

17 minutes ago, SadMan2021 said:

did you have any opportunity to move up your surgery date at all? no last minute cancellations that you could have gotten squeezed in? 

For my next HT I'm definitely going to an elite surgeon, but these 9 month-2 year waitlists are so off-putting. With work and life in general its hard to plan for surgery so far in advance. 

Yes they have them, more often than not now due to covid being a thing.  That said, you’d need to have your blood and lab results up to date and be able to travel there on a whim.  I don’t live close to the clinic, so I just got a date and waited.

[Fue3361]

15 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

I assumed your surgeon used some method to count them, either via a machine or verbally. Otherwise, how would his nurses/assistants, and himself, be able to keep track?

Well in my case, my surgeon doesn’t charge per graft.  But yeah, they obviously do count them.

[asterix0]

17 minutes ago, Fue3361 said:

Well in my case, my surgeon doesn’t charge per graft.  But yeah, they obviously do count them.

How do you know they counted them if you were unconscious during the procedure?

My point is, there are many reasons you would want to be awake during the procedure, some hours of discomfort are worth it to endure to be able to remember what was done to your head...

Edited December 30, 2021 by asterix0

[HappyMan2021]

2 minutes ago, Nairphss said:

At some point you have to trust the surgeon that they are doing the right thing.  

Yea, I would be concerned if my surgeon was willing to listen to instructions from me, the drugged up patient, during surgery. 

 

[asterix0]

29 minutes ago, Nairphss said:

It is not realistic to count during procedures by staying "awake". If a surgeon wants to manipulate the graft count, there is no way a patient will be able to find out unless the discrepancy is huge. 

At some point you have to trust the surgeon that they are doing the right thing.  

I agree with you, but also I know for a 100% fact of an elite surgeon that has a machine that tracks the graft count for you and him to see throughout the whole surgery.

Back to this particular case, it is apparent that OP did not get 4,000 grafts of growth. However, it would be nice for OP to know, at least to some relatively close number, how many grafts he actually got implanted. Then a yield % calculation can be done.

[HT1404]

Well yeah again I really didn't think too much of the result until I started looking at threads here. It has been over 3 years now since the surgery so not sure a refund will fly anymore.

I don't recall who did the holes for the recipient site since I was heavily sedated at that point, but I do remember that the nurses did most of the implanting. (because I recall waking up for a bit and trying to move my feet and the nurse implanting the hairs told me to stay still).

[HT1404]

I can say for sure that ~4300 grafts were implanted because I paid in advance for 4000 grafts and post surgery, Dr Diep said that he implanted 300 extra and got charged for that.

[HappyMan2021]

2 minutes ago, Nairphss said:

Diep does the holes, and techs do the placement it would be illegal in USA for a non physician to do the holes. Techs can vary in their experience. one of my tech was experienced. that side grew better. the other side was a new tech. that side didnt grow as well. 

can you specifically explain why you think the tech screwed on the side that didn't grow as well?

[HappyMan2021]

8 minutes ago, Nairphss said:

i cant say for sure, but i would remember waking up a bit from sedation, and the experienced tech telling the inexperienced tech instruction on how to do certain things, or advising her not to do that. Like I said I was heavily sedated so was too "high" to process anything complex. But when the results grew in, that side was sub par both in terms of growth and and in terms of hair direction

interesting, thanks. I think hair direction is determined by how the doc makes the slits, but who knows the tech could have boondogled the execution of the implantation. I'm not sure. 

It's a very anxiety filling situation being worked on by techs. Because while you can choose and select your hair transplant doc based on reviews and consultation, there is no way to actively determine who your techs will be. And obviously the techs have wayyyyyyyyyyyyy less training than a medical doctor. 

[HappyMan2021]

2 minutes ago, Nairphss said:

The depth and the angulation is determined by the slit the doctor creates. The direction the hair grows in, up down left or right is based on how the tech looks at the follicle, the sebaceous gland and places it in the slit so the follicle is oriented appropriately. You could have a perfectly made slit but if the follicle is  not oriented properly it will grow in the wrong direction.

This requires experience and it is not difficult to imagine a new tech botching this up. 

I see you had your surgery at Diep's office too. I'm surprised (I guess not really...) that an "elite" doctor would have such a flagrantly new tech working on you. 

I understand every tech needs to start somewhere, but you are paying a h*ll of a lot of money to be some tech's training patient. 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

Guys,

 I am in another country about to get my final surgery. I will contact Dr. Diep when I return. I will say this, any poster coming here to disparage a doctor first post is not a legitimate poster. Hit and run posts are not tolerated.

As for OP, I’m sorry you’re going through this, I will say this, there may be an underlying condition that is causing poor growth. I would definitely get a scalp biopsy to ensure there isn’t some LPP or scarring alopecia. 

As for claims Diep isn’t good, every surgeon has poor results. Literally EVERY surgeon. There are very few surgeons that have as many home run cases on this forum as Dr. Diep my case included. We all are entitled to opinions, but one result shouldn’t dictate a surgeons entire portfolio good or bad. 
 

Onwards and upwards,

[AB2000]

On 12/29/2021 at 7:24 PM, HT1404 said:

Ok so as promised I am uploading a bunch of pictures. The pic qualities of the days right after surgery are not that great but still good enough.

 

1 month after surgery:

2 months after surgery:

 

 

 

Today:

Notice the spacing and how there is not density to the hair at the front. It is almost like I never had a transplant, mind you 4000 grafts!!

 

 

 

 

It looks to me like you have dandruff.  If you had it at the time going into the surgery I would say that is a contributing factor to your subpar result.  If the scalp is dealing with irritation from the dandruff in addition to the invasive surgery that might be why some of the transplanted grafts didn't survive.  I'd have to go back over my surgical instructions, but I am fairly sure that the transplant is not to take place if the patient is going through with this, and needs to use something good like Nizoral shampoo to clear it up.  If your scalp was in bad condition going into the day of surgery, the question is why did they proceed.

Edited December 31, 2021 by AB2000

[MachoVato]

I wouldn't recommend going back to Diep for repair. Wong is the way.

[HT1404]

thanks @AB2000, but this is something very recent, the dandruff. I don't recall having that the day of. 

[HT1404]

I recall arriving there at about 5:30am.. going through the pre-procedure walkthrough, taking meds, getting ready, and then I dont know what time it actually started. I was already dazed off.

Dr. diep did the incision, but since I was out of it, don't know who did the holes. I do know that at some point, the nurse was implanting the hairs. Again don't know if she did the whole thing or not.

And then was done at about 7 or 7:30pm.

[G_man]

On 12/30/2021 at 5:38 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

Guys,

 I am in another country about to get my final surgery. I will contact Dr. Diep when I return. I will say this, any poster coming here to disparage a doctor first post is not a legitimate poster. Hit and run posts are not tolerated.

As for OP, I’m sorry you’re going through this, I will say this, there may be an underlying condition that is causing poor growth. I would definitely get a scalp biopsy to ensure there isn’t some LPP or scarring alopecia. 

As for claims Diep isn’t good, every surgeon has poor results. Literally EVERY surgeon. There are very few surgeons that have as many home run cases on this forum as Dr. Diep my case included. We all are entitled to opinions, but one result shouldn’t dictate a surgeons entire portfolio good or bad. 
 

Onwards and upwards,

Thank you for this, I was starting to get really nervous because I'm scheduled with Dr. Diep in a couple weeks. 

[HT1404]

Best of luck for you @G_man

[Snowboard]

Really sorry that this has happened to you.  

I had a failed procedure to begin with, and then two FUE at ~1500 each from Konior to fix my issue.  The concerning part is that the graft count from Diep is pretty high, my failure was ~1500.

Clearly I would not return to the original clinic, as others have said get a consultation with elites like H&W and Konior etc. to see what they think.

As an actual patient that had almost no growth in a failed procedure and then GREAT results in two follow ups, I am always very, very, very skeptical of the “bad individual physiology” excuses that clinics and others use.

Sorry again that this has happened, but get a few consults and see how many grafts you have left and I bet you will be happy eventually.

 

 

 

[G_man]

2 hours ago, HT1404 said:

Best of luck for you @G_man

Thank you, I appreciate it!

[FUT4000]

14 hours ago, Snowboard said:

Really sorry that this has happened to you.  

I had a failed procedure to begin with, and then two FUE at ~1500 each from Konior to fix my issue.  The concerning part is that the graft count from Diep is pretty high, my failure was ~1500.

Clearly I would not return to the original clinic, as others have said get a consultation with elites like H&W and Konior etc. to see what they think.

As an actual patient that had almost no growth in a failed procedure and then GREAT results in two follow ups, I am always very, very, very skeptical of the “bad individual physiology” excuses that clinics and others use.

Sorry again that this has happened, but get a few consults and see how many grafts you have left and I bet you will be happy eventually.

 

 

 

curious as to why it took two additional fue transplants after your failed transplant to fix the issue? i know konior is great but why not one transplant at 3000 grafts versus the two transplants he had to do? did the first one not look great (possibly considered a failure) or was that his plan to go for two transplants? what's the rationale behind it?

[Snowboard]

I had a FUE initially (not Konior) and wanted to continue with FUE and avoid FUT.  I believe Konior limits his FUE under ~2000 but I could be wrong.  
 

My case was planned for two procedures, the first pass was create a hairline up front and then second pass to add density to the front and thicken the crown which was starting to thin.