Dr. Hasson Consultation - ~3000 Grafts Hairline Restoration - Thoughts?

[Conner]

Hey Everyone,

I had a consultation with Dr. Hasson recently, and have a surgery date later this month, November 26th.

Take a look at the hairline drawn in, and notice the second dotted line which is lower and only on one side of my head, and imagine that extended all the way across my head. Dr. Hasson originally estimated ~2500 grafts for the higher line, and ~3000 for the lower.

I think think many of us always wish we could accomplish more than what is usually possible, but what do you think about the new hairline placement and what the result would be? Having the normal pre-surgery doubts and jitters, but I'm sure I'll be very glad I did once it's all said and done.

 

[hairlossPA]

i think either will be fine. I'd lean more towards the higher one, just for the sake of it will look more natural as you age. you're going to love either transformation

Edited November 5, 2021 by hairlossPA

[asterix0]

Too many grafts for that amount of surface area, plus I wouldn't recommend you get a transplant, you almost have a full head of hair with a slightly recessed, but completely age appropriate hairline. 

[Conner]

32 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

Too many grafts for that amount of surface area, plus I wouldn't recommend you get a transplant, you almost have a full head of hair with a slightly recessed, but completely age appropriate hairline. 

I have to admit, I thought the same at first. If I would have guessed what 3000 would accomplish on my head with my level of hair loss, I would have guessed it would be a significantly lower hairline. But the thinning does extend deceptively far into my head and I have thin hair. Maybe I need to just re-align my expectations. I was disappointed to be underwhelmed though, not gonna lie. 

[asterix0]

44 minutes ago, Conner said:

I have to admit, I thought the same at first. If I would have guessed what 3000 would accomplish on my head with my level of hair loss, I would have guessed it would be a significantly lower hairline. But the thinning does extend deceptively far into my head and I have thin hair. Maybe I need to just re-align my expectations. I was disappointed to be underwhelmed though, not gonna lie. 

In my opinion, your situation is an ideal don't fix what's not broken scenario. Why spend $20k and go through the uncertainty of what might happen, better to save those grafts for one day down the line for when you'll really need them. 

[Conner]

1 hour ago, asterix0 said:

In my opinion, your situation is an ideal don't fix what's not broken scenario. Why spend $20k and go through the uncertainty of what might happen, better to save those grafts for one day down the line for when you'll really need them. 

I genuinely appreciate that perspective. I plan on being on finasteride for life so hopefully I won’t need them at any point, but it definitely can be uncertain. It’s just hard to balance because even though it could be much worse, it’s one of those things where I look at it every day and hate it; it’s all relative I guess. 
 

I’m actually seeing Dr. Rahal next week, will be interesting to see if his assessment is similar. 

[Gasthoerer]

16 hours ago, asterix0 said:

Too many grafts for that amount of surface area, plus I wouldn't recommend you get a transplant, you almost have a full head of hair with a slightly recessed, but completely age appropriate hairline. 

I tend to disagree! While the amount of grafts seems high, it is difficult to judge from the pics. There seems to be thinning going further back, which needs to be treated as well.

Status is of course better than many other in this forum, but it is also very obvious what is bother the TO. This is far from "slightly age appropriate recessed" IMO. And I say this as a rather conservative guy myself. 

The answer to the initial question: when unsure always go for the conservative option. One could even argue an even more conservative one with less closure of the corners matching your hairline with your current side part. 

[Conner]

On 11/6/2021 at 9:43 AM, Gasthoerer said:

I tend to disagree! While the amount of grafts seems high, it is difficult to judge from the pics. There seems to be thinning going further back, which needs to be treated as well.

Status is of course better than many other in this forum, but it is also very obvious what is bother the TO. This is far from "slightly age appropriate recessed" IMO. And I say this as a rather conservative guy myself. 

The answer to the initial question: when unsure always go for the conservative option. One could even argue an even more conservative one with less closure of the corners matching your hairline with your current side part. 

Appreciate the perspective. I think it can be deceiving because the thinning does actually go kind of far back into my head. I actually was trying to decide if I felt like the lower of the two options was even "enough" for me to justify the cost and ordeal of a HT, as I was hoping for more lowering and temple closure. But I think it's a case of me needing to align my expectations. I suppose a dense, higher hairline post-transplant would be better than a thinner, lower one.

[deeznuts]

H&W always seems to have higher graft counts because they like to dense pack the shit out of your hairline and they try to give you a result that you're ecstatic about. They're also fairly confident that they can predict your future loss to a reasonable degree (using microscopes and whatever other technology) so that they won't overharvest you.

It does look on initial glance that it's not covering a ton of area, but looking at your temples, it looks like they're thinning and will need a decent chunk of grafts there. Plus they're reinforcing the hairline which has thinned.

I'd personally go for the lower hairline but you should also ask Dr. Hasson how he feels your future loss will progress. Though people do say you can always lower your hairline, it's a lot harder to do it the other way around. The one thing I always wondered though is that if you get a transplant and then get it lowered after... Doesn't that just consume more grafts since you're essentially building two hairlines (i.e. where the density is highest?). Resulting in maybe 3 cm of high density instead of say 1.5 cm (just making the numbers up)

[Conner]

23 minutes ago, deeznuts said:

H&W always seems to have higher graft counts because they like to dense pack the shit out of your hairline and they try to give you a result that you're ecstatic about. They're also fairly confident that they can predict your future loss to a reasonable degree (using microscopes and whatever other technology) so that they won't overharvest you.

It does look on initial glance that it's not covering a ton of area, but looking at your temples, it looks like they're thinning and will need a decent chunk of grafts there. Plus they're reinforcing the hairline which has thinned.

I'd personally go for the lower hairline but you should also ask Dr. Hasson how he feels your future loss will progress. Though people do say you can always lower your hairline, it's a lot harder to do it the other way around. The one thing I always wondered though is that if you get a transplant and then get it lowered after... Doesn't that just consume more grafts since you're essentially building two hairlines (i.e. where the density is highest?). Resulting in maybe 3 cm of high density instead of say 1.5 cm (just making the numbers up)

I'm definitely going for the lower. I'm just wondering if I'll be happy with that, if it's even low enough. My main goal is as much hairline lowering as possible. I wonder if it could ever be a better idea to somehow have a little less density so it could be lower. Or I wonder if a denser, higher hairline would still make me most satisfied. Decisions, decisions.

[Balding Bad]

I think as others have suggested being conservative with your donor grafts is key. I feel like you're thinking too short term about this. You want to restore your younger, more vernal hairline and I don't blame you. Most, if not all, of us would want that, but you really need to take into account future hair loss, especially if you say your thinning is much worse than it appears in your photos. It's always better to have more in the reserves just in case...

That's just my 2 cents, you gotta do whatever makes you feel happy though.

[Conner]

On 11/10/2021 at 3:14 AM, Balding Bad said:

I think as others have suggested being conservative with your donor grafts is key. I feel like you're thinking too short term about this. You want to restore your younger, more vernal hairline and I don't blame you. Most, if not all, of us would want that, but you really need to take into account future hair loss, especially if you say your thinning is much worse than it appears in your photos. It's always better to have more in the reserves just in case...

That's just my 2 cents, you gotta do whatever makes you feel happy though.

Yes I know you are right, but I’m just dreaming I guess haha. Luckily with finasteride I have seen my loss pretty much stop (been on it for a year). So assuming I take it for life I’m hoping this is where I’ll stay. 

[Balding Bad]

3 hours ago, Conner said:

Yes I know you are right, but I’m just dreaming I guess haha. Luckily with finasteride I have seen my loss pretty much stop (been on it for a year). So assuming I take it for life I’m hoping this is where I’ll stay. 

That's great to hear that Fin is working well for you. Have you experienced any sides?

[Conner]

10 minutes ago, Balding Bad said:

That's great to hear that Fin is working well for you. Have you experienced any sides?

Luckily no, but I’m using it topically. I started with oral though and I did experience some, hence the switch to topical. 

[Balding Bad]

1 hour ago, Conner said:

Luckily no, but I’m using it topically. I started with oral though and I did experience some, hence the switch to topical. 

Interesting. I need to do more research into topical Fin, but a colleague of mine who is currently on it says he's experiencing no sides either, but did when he consumed it orally. I do wonder if topical Fin might be too good to be true though...

May I ask to what extent the sides were for you when you when taking oral Fin?

[Conner]

54 minutes ago, Balding Bad said:

Interesting. I need to do more research into topical Fin, but a colleague of mine who is currently on it says he's experiencing no sides either, but did when he consumed it orally. I do wonder if topical Fin might be too good to be true though...

May I ask to what extent the sides were for you when you when taking oral Fin?

It’s definitely not too good to be true. In fact, if it gives it more legitimacy, Dr. Hasson himself mentioned he’s used topical for a long time and he recommends it to patients.
 

I was experiencing gynecomastia. This is probably too much information but I tend to carry a bit more fat in my chest anyway so I think I was maybe somewhat genetically predisposed to having issues with chest/breast tissue enlargement hormonally. Haven’t seen the same issue with topical. If it helps though, I never experienced anything sexual even on the oral.    

[Conner]

1 hour ago, Mark Wolfer said:

Like me, you seem to have retrograde alopecia on the sides which will limit your donor area if you have further progression.

How is your mid and crown?

I think 3,000 grafts is more than you'd need based on the density I can see in the photos. Also, SMP would probably do wonders on your head to fill in the gaps on the sides and to give the impression of more density throughout the top.

Spot on with the retrograde, it’s noticeable in the back of my head at my nape of my neck as well. Luckily my crown is not thinning at all, and my mid is just very slight. It’s really mostly only the temple recession, just extending a bit deeper. 

[Balding Bad]

59 minutes ago, Conner said:

It’s definitely not too good to be true. In fact, if it gives it more legitimacy, Dr. Hasson himself mentioned he’s used topical for a long time and he recommends it to patients.
 

I was experiencing gynecomastia. This is probably too much information but I tend to carry a bit more fat in my chest anyway so I think I was maybe somewhat genetically predisposed to having issues with chest/breast tissue enlargement hormonally. Haven’t seen the same issue with topical. If it helps though, I never experienced anything sexual even on the oral.    

Appreciate you sharing your experience...gotta say, not sure which one is worse though: gynecomastia or limp dick... lol

That being said, glad to hear topical isn't giving you any sides. What is the dosage of Fin for your topical application? 1 mg?

[Conner]

3 minutes ago, Balding Bad said:

Appreciate you sharing your experience...gotta say, not sure which one is worse though: gynecomastia or limp dick... lol

That being said, glad to hear topical isn't giving you any sides. What is the dosage of Fin for your topical application? 1 mg?

Lmaoo yeah talk about two bad options. I think with the gyno though there’s a chance it was psychosomatic, because I can tend to worry a lot and I was paying so much attention I may have “manifested” the symptoms, I don’t really know but I wouldn’t put it past my brain lol. That being said, I wasn’t going to wait to see, so I switched to topical which I’d rather do anyway just to have less in my system no matter what.     
 

Not sure how the concentrations break down, I can take a picture of the label when I’m back home in a few days.

[Gasthoerer]

On 11/9/2021 at 9:42 PM, Conner said:

I'm definitely going for the lower. I'm just wondering if I'll be happy with that, if it's even low enough. My main goal is as much hairline lowering as possible. I wonder if it could ever be a better idea to somehow have a little less density so it could be lower.

I am totally honest: Every sentence here sounds like a bad idea to me. 

The lower you go, the more dense it has to be to create the illusion (typically). And the lower one is more (!) than enough IMO. Your hairloss will progress, FIN or no FIN. If you have retrograde, you need to be very carefully

Edited November 13, 2021 by Gasthoerer

[Conner]

10 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

I am totally honest: Every sentence here sounds like a bad idea to me. 

The lower you go, the more dense it has to create the illusion (typically). And the lower one is more (!) than enough IMO. Your hairloss will progress, FIN or no FIN. If you have retrograde, you need to be very carefully

I think you are right. It’s funny, I’m actually on a train from Ottawa to Montréal as we speak, coming back from a visit with Dr. Rahal. He more or less drew a similar hairline to my H&W consultation with a similar graft count, approximately ~3000. This seems to be the highest that either doctor recommends so that I keep some grafts for the future. The visit actually helped align my expectations, and I don’t think I would do anything more aggressive than this at this stage of my life. 
 

Funny, it’s almost like the doctors that have been doing this for decades know what they’re talking about compared to my ideas, lol. 

[Mark Wolfer]

1 hour ago, Conner said:

I think you are right. It’s funny, I’m actually on a train from Ottawa to Montréal as we speak, coming back from a visit with Dr. Rahal. He more or less drew a similar hairline to my H&W consultation with a similar graft count, approximately ~3000. This seems to be the highest that either doctor recommends so that I keep some grafts for the future. The visit actually helped align my expectations, and I don’t think I would do anything more aggressive than this at this stage of my life. 
 

Funny, it’s almost like the doctors that have been doing this for decades know what they’re talking about compared to my ideas, lol. 

Did either of them suggest going any further than your frontal third?

[Conner]

1 hour ago, Mark Wolfer said:

Did either of them suggest going any further than your frontal third?

What do you mean, exactly? Like going more into my mid scalp or crown? If so the answer is no; I just don’t really have any thinning there thankfully for whatever reason. It’s all in my temples and close to my hairline.