4 weeks away from surgery. No Fin. Am I destined to fail?

[Swooping]

You are right to give it a fight. Even if you can enjoy the HT for a few years why not? Just be prepared to shave it down if things go downhill in the future.

[Melvin- Admin]

Not true, you ever seen guys whose sides thin out, or even drop....you need to do some research. There is a LOT that can go wrong here for guys who get an HT and don't halt their hairloss.

 

Dude I've done research I've been doing research for over 10 years, if your sides thin or drop they will thin drop ultimately anyway, finasteride is not going to stop your hairloss, it merely slows it down. You can still take minoxidil, Nizoral and RU58841 and its gonna be pretty damn close to finasteride. Again weighing the pros and cons, potentially a Norwood 7 down the line or potentially impotent for life. I'd rather have a ring of hair and inch thick and be able to have sex than have Fabio hair and be castrated. Plenty of guys who don't take finasteride have descent results with just minoxidil and nizoral slowing down their hairloss.

 

I've also had a transplant and have friends who've had transplants. Sam B on YouTube doesn't take finasteride, he was a Norwood 6 and his transplant still looks good 2 years later, he's 31, could he go bald in the future yes he will, but he would also even with finasteride.

[KO]

You haven't done your research if you think fin loses its effectivity over time.

[Melvin- Admin]

KO youre assuming finasteride is effective in 100% of men which it's not, here's a study that followed 113 men over 10 years out of the 113, 59 of them saw little to no change, out of those 59 only 15 or 25% had an improvement after 10 years. I believe 11 got worse.

http://www.bernsteinmedical.com/downloads/Rossi_Finasteride_10Yr_%202011.pdf

Trust me I've done my research, I've been in hairloss forums for years, plenty of guys on finasteride +10 years still go bald.

[KO]

You are interpreting the study incorrectly to fit your agenda. You need to understand that "no change" is a successful response to medication. After 10 years, how many patients had at least "no change" to improvement? 105/113, or 93%. In other words, 93% of people are at least at baseline after 10 years.

 

25% of the 59 who saw no change had an improvement, the message here is that most people who see improvement respond early. This doesn't imply that fin "loses effectiveness".

 

You have NOT done your research.

 

If plenty of guys go bald on finasteride, can you please point me to some examples of people who took finasteride early in their hair loss progression and went to NW6? There are a small number of people who simply are non-responders, but that can be with any drug, but that's not what you're arguing here.

[Melvin- Admin]

Did you not see that 15 men got worse? Or did that not fit your agenda? Dude YOU haven't done your research, Below is a thread from a guy been on fin 15 years obviously stopped working. Several guys state that the medication stopped being as effective are they lying? What would they gain from lying? Why do guys increase dosages after a while if it doesn't lose effectiveness?

Now some may argue the propecia didn't stop working it's the excess DHT that makes you bald, regardless, it's been documented that men continue to lose hair after the 5 year mark, finasteride does not stop hair loss it only slows it down, it only removes 60-70% of DHT and only one type. Romperstomper do your research and try not to listen to these guys who probably haven't even had a hair transplant and probably not Norwood 6. You have less to gain and more to lose.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180476-look-worse-6-months-post-op-then-pre-op.html

 

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/3489-When-Propecia-Stops-Working-Spencer-Kobren-Responds-To-TBT-Caller-Concerns

Edited September 4, 2015 by Melvin-HTsoon

[romperstomper29]

Thanks for the advice guys after the surgery when all healed I think I will give RU a go and see how it works for me. FIN is a no go for me. even though many never get sides the potential for them is too much of a risk for me.

[MAGNUMpi]

Thanks for the advice guys after the surgery when all healed I think I will give RU a go and see how it works for me. FIN is a no go for me. even though many never get sides the potential for them is too much of a risk for me.

I totally understand. I hope it didnt seem like I was trying to push Fin on you. I was just trying to relate the potential effects of having a HT without halting your loss. Hope it all works out well and you get the hair you deserve.

[KO]

Did you not see that 15 men got worse? Or did that not fit your agenda? Dude YOU haven't done your research, Below is a thread from a guy been on fin 15 years obviously stopped working. Several guys state that the medication stopped being as effective are they lying? What would they gain from lying? Why do guys increase dosages after a while if it doesn't lose effectiveness?

Now some may argue the propecia didn't stop working it's the excess DHT that makes you bald, regardless, it's been documented that men continue to lose hair after the 5 year mark, finasteride does not stop hair loss it only slows it down, it only removes 60-70% of DHT and only one type. Romperstomper do your research and try not to listen to these guys who probably haven't even had a hair transplant and probably not Norwood 6. You have less to gain and more to lose.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180476-look-worse-6-months-post-op-then-pre-op.html

 

https://www.baldtruthtalk.com/threads/3489-When-Propecia-Stops-Working-Spencer-Kobren-Responds-To-TBT-Caller-Concerns

So what? The response rate is 85%, with 15% not responding. That still doesn't prove that fin stops working after 10 years. There is absolutely no data that can justify such a claim, and you're just grasping at straws. The first example is a bad HT result, the second is an unverifiable claim. It is not that it stops "losing effectiveness" but that the natural progression of hair loss continues at a slower rate. BTW, even "slowing down" hair loss, something you mock, is a very good result. If a guy is going to be a NW6 by 25 and instead becomes a NW4 by age 40, fin worked.

 

You are just making things up to fit an agenda. The funny thing is, the Italian study you posted proves the longevity of treatment on fin. A man taking fin has an 85% chance of being at or above baseline in 10 years. That's really, really good.

 

Btw to all the people who think "fin stops working after 10 years", just check my signature.

 

Just do your research, you have a lot to learn.

[romperstomper29]

I totally understand. I hope it didnt seem like I was trying to push Fin on you. I was just trying to relate the potential effects of having a HT without halting your loss. Hope it all works out well and you get the hair you deserve.

no I didn't think you were pushing FIN at all I asked for opinions and you relayed yours. What would be the point of coming on here asking a question and demanding that please only give me positive answers. Burying ones head in the sand will result in being in an even worse position in the long term than where you start. I think if a guy considers all the variables in the equation and prepares for what various outcomes might lie ahead then he will be more prepared to deal with them up the road. No point in I thinkin ya ill get this HT wit no FIN and ill be sorted for life. I need tactics and a long term plan.

[Melvin- Admin]

So what? The response rate is 85%, with 15% not responding. That still doesn't prove that fin stops working after 10 years. There is absolutely no data that can justify such a claim, and you're just grasping at straws. The first example is a bad HT result, the second is an unverifiable claim. It is not that it stops "losing effectiveness" but that the natural progression of hair loss continues at a slower rate. BTW, even "slowing down" hair loss, something you mock, is a very good result. If a guy is going to be a NW6 by 25 and instead becomes a NW4 by age 40, fin worked.

 

You are just making things up to fit an agenda. The funny thing is, the Italian study you posted proves the longevity of treatment on fin. A man taking fin has an 85% chance of being at or above baseline in 10 years. That's really, really good.

 

Btw to all the people who think "fin stops working after 10 years", just check my signature.

 

Just do your research, you have a lot to learn.

 

That's my point! It does not stop hair loss, it only slows it down, so a guy who's going to be Norwood 6 will become Norwood 6 eventually, your pretty much agreeing with me now lol.

 

First guy was not a bad transplant, he got shock loss, something fin should prevent if effective.

As for "unverifiable" claims, guys who've been on it 13 years saying that they've noticed its not as effective why would they lie? the body gets acclimated to drugs so why wouldn't it get acclimated to this drug?

 

Either way my main point was that finasteride will not STOP you from going bald it will only slow it down, which you've already stated the same thing. If you didn't see OP's pics you'd see that he's almost Norwood 6, he has a lot more to lose i.e sexual health than he has to gain i.e hair.

 

With critical planning he could reinforce the sides in case they drop in the future, create a hairline and leave the crown thin, this is acceptable to a Norwood 6. Are you a Norwood 6 have you had a transplant? Just sounds like your pushing fin on a guy in a completely different situation.

 

I think there's a lot you have to learn, especially when it comes to hair transplants, and advising other members,, telling someone to get on a drug without giving them the pros and cons not good, also not taking the time to asses the persons personal situation not good. To say your destined to fail without fin when the guy is already Norwood 6 is not true in my opinion, could his sides drop, sure but that's why you plan for future hairloss and stay conservative.

 

Romperstomper it's good your staying conservative, critical planning is necessary, and realistic expectations. When you get your transplant make a thread is love to see your progress.

[KO]

I have seen his photos, and it's obvious that he's going to lose a lot more hair in the future. He is NOT a NW6, he's currently showing a diffuse NW5 pattern with a good amount of miniaturization throughout his scalp. He is at bad risk for shocking these native hairs. You are giving very poor advice.

 

The study does not say it only slows down hair loss, it only slows down in some people, in others, it stops hair loss, in others, it actually grows hair back. Even then, with all things considered, 85% have maintained their hair or better, in the other 15%, it may well have slowed down hair loss. This directly refutes your claim that "fin stops working after 10 years", which forces you to move goalposts. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Furthermore, you are in no position to dictate what he has to lose, you simply do not know how his result will turn out. Whether he gets side effects or not, is a completely different argument from whether it will retain hair, and yet you keep bringing it up. Weighing pros and cons is a decision that he has to make, not you.

 

It's too bad that you had a bad experience with fin, but it is sad that you are not only trying to scare people out of it, but even misrepresent facts to fit your agenda.

 

 

Misery needs company I guess.

 

Oh btw, here's another thing, some of the older doctors who used to operate before finasteride came out also believe that it helps reduce shockloss, Rassman has written about it before, where patients had a successful transplant, but still lost native hair very quickly leaving them at baseline.

[KO]

Anyways, time for me to detach from this debate. OP, let us know how it turns out!

[MAGNUMpi]

Gotta agree with KO on this one.

After 10 years on Fin I have almost no loss and some gain in my crown.

It SERIOUSLY stabilized my hair loss.

Most people do not get sides from it but all drugs have possible side effects. But we take them all the time anyway. For instance I am allergic to Ibuprofen. It give me rashes. I didnt know it until I tried and got the side, so I stopped. If a drug like Propecia can help you hold onto your current NW level for 10 years... its worth a try IMHO. If you get sides simply stop.

Ten years from now with the same NW level. Think about it. We are all here thinking about a HT and gambling on scarring/poor results/future OPs. I say use what we can in the fight and Fin is a great weapon against MPB. Ha!. I sound like a salesman. ... anyway Romperstomper29 isnt into it and that's his perogative so I guess the subject is mute here.

[Melvin- Admin]

I have seen his photos, and it's obvious that he's going to lose a lot more hair in the future. He is NOT a NW6, he's currently showing a diffuse NW5 pattern with a good amount of miniaturization throughout his scalp. He is at bad risk for shocking these native hairs. You are giving very poor advice.

 

The study does not say it only slows down hair loss, it only slows down in some people, in others, it stops hair loss, in others, it actually grows hair back. Even then, with all things considered, 85% have maintained their hair or better, in the other 15%, it may well have slowed down hair loss. This directly refutes your claim that "fin stops working after 10 years", which forces you to move goalposts. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Furthermore, you are in no position to dictate what he has to lose, you simply do not know how his result will turn out. Whether he gets side effects or not, is a completely different argument from whether it will retain hair, and yet you keep bringing it up. Weighing pros and cons is a decision that he has to make, not you.

 

It's too bad that you had a bad experience with fin, but it is sad that you are not only trying to scare people out of it, but even misrepresent facts to fit your agenda.

 

 

Misery needs company I guess.

 

Oh btw, here's another thing, some of the older doctors who used to operate before finasteride came out also believe that it helps reduce shockloss, Rassman has written about it before, where patients had a successful transplant, but still lost native hair very quickly leaving them at baseline.

 

First of all how am I dictating what he should do? I'm giving him MY experience as someone who is also a diffuse thinner and has actually had a hair transplant have you had a hair transplant are you a Norwood 5-6 diffuse thinner? I'm pretty sure the purpose of this thread was to gather the pros and cons, when I say he has more to lose than gain that's my opinion as someone who has been in his shoes, you're simply telling him to put a drug in his body or his hair transplant will fail, without even telling him first hand experience.

 

I'm giving him my first hand experience as someone who's taken finasteride has a similar hair loss pattern and has had a hair transplant, never once did I tell him not to take finasteride, go back and read my posts, I advised him that he could take a low dose to see how it feels, also you obviously didn't read the study because out of the guys who didn't see difference in hairloss 15 of them actually got worse after 10 years, it doesn't specifically state they were non-responders, which would lead one to believe the medication loss effect. But that wasn't even my point to begin with, you haven't provided any thing besides " Norwood 5 no finasteride will look bad take care!" What kind of way is that to help someone out? I mean seriously have you even had a hair transplant? Are you a Norwood 5-6? You're telling me I'm in no position to share my experience when I'm pretty much the closest thing he could refer to in his situation.

 

Also, the previous thread of the guy on fin/dut for 15 years still got bad shock loss. I'm actually very happy with my result, that's why I have my before and after as my avatar and not a cartoon take care!

[gillenator]

I started using low dose finasteride in 1996 several years before Propecia was made and put on the market.

 

At the time I was between a Norwood class 4 and 5 with the potential of reaching a full blown class 6. My crown was diffusing badly and lost roughly 70% of the hair mass and density. My mid-scalp was also thinning extensively.

 

Finasteride has been effective for me ever since starting it.

 

Both my mid-scalp and crown have not changed with further hair loss and has been the same appearance for the past 19 years. I attribute this to finasteride because there is no doubt that my crown would be completely bald by now had I not started taking it.

 

I am still taking it to this day although I only take it every other day.

[romperstomper29]

Appreciate the advice guys. Love the debate between KO and HTsoon as it always is with FIN it is controversial. I appreciate both opinions but must say HTsoon is very close to my own situation so it is nice to see there is some hope for us NW5/6 and it might not all be doom and gloom with the right game plan

[gillenator]

Some guys try this approach under the supervision of their doctor.

 

Another option is to consider starting low dose finasteride at a lower dosage or frequency and then adjust it if there are no side effects.

 

If there are side-effects that cannot be resolved, they can always stop taking it.

[Melvin- Admin]

Appreciate the advice guys. Love the debate between KO and HTsoon as it always is with FIN it is controversial. I appreciate both opinions but must say HTsoon is very close to my own situation so it is nice to see there is some hope for us NW5/6 and it might not all be doom and gloom with the right game plan

 

No problem man, I agree with gillenator if you want you can always do low dose every other day, but its your decision ultimately I respect your choice, I just wanted to chime in with my first hand experience since I've been in your shoes, it's been year and a half now and my hairloss hasn't really changed, been doing the dermaroller, lipogaine, nizoral, and I'll throw in RU58841 a few times a month as a DHT blocker, most important thing is to not be too aggressive, frame your face, reinforce your sides, and if you have grafts left over or if you want use body hair for the crown. You'll get s descent look I think you'll be satisfied with, will it be perfect, no far from perfect but it'll be a lot better than where you are, which is ultimately where we want to be as hairloss sufferers. I think you'll be happy based off of what you've said you have realistic expectations with careful planning it'll be a success even if you go balder down the line, how and where you place your grafts should make it so it'll look like natural progression of hairloss.

[romperstomper29]

 

No problem man, I agree with gillenator if you want you can always do low dose every other day, but its your decision ultimately I respect your choice, I just wanted to chime in with my first hand experience since I've been in your shoes, it's been year and a half now and my hairloss hasn't really changed, been doing the dermaroller, lipogaine, nizoral, and I'll throw in RU58841 a few times a month as a DHT blocker, most important thing is to not be too aggressive, frame your face, reinforce your sides, and if you have grafts left over or if you want use body hair for the crown. You'll get s descent look I think you'll be satisfied with, will it be perfect, no far from perfect but it'll be a lot better than where you are, which is ultimately where we want to be as hairloss sufferers. I think you'll be happy based off of what you've said you have realistic expectations with careful planning it'll be a success even if you go balder down the line, how and where you place your grafts should make it so it'll look like natural progression of hairloss.

cheers mate. Much appreciated. I'm thinkin of documenting my progress, not sure yet but I wouldn't have any knowledge whatsoever if it weren't for all the other cases which were documented for my benefit. Might be my turn to give something back ?

[biolizard]

No disrespect biolizard but Ive been on Propecia for over 10 years without one single side effect you mentioned.

 

Ive never heard of anyone doing this successfully. I'm not sure it will as simple as you might think... or even possible. You could potentially have little scar marks in the recipient area that would not look natural. Im not 100% on this but did you ask a good doctor about this idea?

 

Anyway back to the OP. Sure, it's your body. If you dont feel like trying Fin then dont, but I would strongly suggest you do not get a HT at this point. If you are 30 and heading for a NW5 you might end up regretting the decision. Just sayin.

 

 

 

Hair Loss Help Forums - My reversal with Dr Bisanga BHR clinic

 

Hair transplant reversals are indeed possible. Here is the photos of someone who has had one done. Also things like electrolysis and laser hair removal can assist in returning oneself back to a more 'natural' hair loss pattern should one desire that in the future. It's not always perfect, pitting and pigmentation problems seem like they could cause issues with that. But it's still better than PFS, permanent impotence from Fin.

 

I refuse to take Fin. That's my choice. Anyone else that chooses to and has no side effects that's great for them. But I personally would MUCH rather look into either adjusting a hair transplant or even reversing a hair transplant a decade or more down the road if needed; rather than take a chance at the irreversible sexual side effects, depression, mental fog ect associated with Post Finasteride Syndrome or PFS (fin/ propecia.) I would be self conscious, but ultimately, I can live with an awkward hair transplant, however, not so sure I'd want to live (or if I would ever forgive myself) if I was essentially chemically castrated forever flaccid by Fin. Those risk are unacceptable to me.

 

Don't take my word for it. Go to Propeciahelp.com and read for yourself.

[Melvin- Admin]

Hair Loss Help Forums - My reversal with Dr Bisanga BHR clinic

 

Hair transplant reversals are indeed possible. Here is the photos of someone who has had one done. Also things like electrolysis and laser hair removal can assist in returning oneself back to a more 'natural' hair loss pattern should one desire that in the future. It's not always perfect, pitting and pigmentation problems seem like they could cause issues with that. But it's still better than PFS, permanent impotence from Fin.

 

I refuse to take Fin. That's my choice. Anyone else that chooses to and has no side effects that's great for them. But I personally would MUCH rather look into either adjusting a hair transplant or even reversing a hair transplant a decade or more down the road if needed; rather than take a chance at the irreversible sexual side effects, depression, mental fog ect associated with Post Finasteride Syndrome or PFS (fin/ propecia.) I would be self conscious, but ultimately, I can live with an awkward hair transplant, however, not so sure I'd want to live (or if I would ever forgive myself) if I was essentially chemically castrated forever flaccid by Fin. Those risk are unacceptable to me.

 

Don't take my word for it. Go to Propeciahelp.com and read for yourself.

 

A reversal is not even necessary, if you're a Norwood 5 and up, you place your grafts in a pattern that would be natural if further hairloss progresses, the only time I advocate a trial of finasteride is if you're a Norwood 2 with basically a full head of hair left to lose. Otherwise, I'd your a Norwood 5 basically bald, you take finasteride and if you happen to be one of the sad cases of post finasteride syndrome, you'd be impotent for life and you'd still be bald, it's a double whammy, for individuals that are already bald there's little to no pay out, only that you maintain high sides, I'd rather go Norwood 7 then go impotent for life. Although those cases are rare, i took org finasteride and dutasteride, the side effects went away once I stopped.