Senior Member FUE2014 Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 It's funny seeing all these members claiming some guy in Libya or Kazakhstan is the best hair transplant surgeon in the world lol. The two best surgeons in the world are Dr. Paul McAndrews in Pasadena, CA and Dr. Robert Bernstein in NYC. Of course no one on this forum likes that because they cost 3 times more then everyone else. Never heard of Paul McAndrews and never heard anyone claim that Dr Bernstein is the best in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 ^^^ Of course not. You've only heard of doctors that spend most of their time on hair restoration network forums. After all i hear internet forums are where the real doctors are at ;-).... My nose surgeon who also is one of the best in the world has heard of Dr McAndrews, he was quite impressed and in awe that I was going to him, but maybe the Newport Beach and Los Angeles plastic surgery crowd just isn't as sophisticated as the ones in India and Turkey :-) .... Btw, I find it funny that while we are arguing a thread popped up about a guy's horrible ht in India and how in India counting grafts is "not allowed" lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member FUE2014 Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 You are right that there are plenty of excellent docs who are not on the HRN (Dr Lorenzo being an example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sean Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Alpine, With all due respect, the amount of money one pays for a hair transplant has zero influence on the final result. L. Lee Bosley used to charge more than 9 bucks a graft and he easily got it too. I mean seriously, I've seen some of the most expensive hair transplants in the world and some of them did not hold a candle to some much less expensive results I've seen. I personally know someone that has spent 125K and he reverted back to a hair system. He was a virgin scalp, non-repair patient too. I've seen some results from what you would call "third world" clinics that would shame some of the biggest names in the business. They're all using the same tools, they're all using the same techniques. No one has "the secret" and no one has a monopoly on "cutting edge" technology. It just comes down to natural talent, enough experience, knowing which tools to use that are freely availabe on the world market and actually giving a damn about doing the best work that can be done. Money can't buy that, but research can find it. Joe, your comment is spot on. Some folks saying cheaper clinics arent good enough as the top chargers is assanine. That's the type of comments some folks want to research and look into. That is what misleads and decieved some patients who paid top dollar and now have half ass results versus some guy who paid low rates with either Dr Bhatti, Dr Karadeniz, Dr Vories, Dr Koray, Dr Keser, Dr Lorenzo and other cheaper reasonable docs Etc etc and still got super results. Talent is in the hand of the doc, not the price. Ive known folks who raced Lamborghinis against corvettes and the corvette still won. Corvette costs less. It was the driver that was able to handle better than the guy in the Lambo. Price now means nothing. This forum will probably consider more low charging docs become members at one point or another. Most of these cheaper docs werent described as recommended on this forum until they joined and showed what they can do. They are recommended yet they charge what the average man/woman can handle better financially. To say that low cost means sub par or lacks quality, is something that is missing sound logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member KO Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 This is Paul McAndrews portfolio: Dr. Paul McAndrews - Los Angeles Hair Restoration and Corrective Surgery Expert (Forgive me mods) Yes, I'm sure Shapiro and Konior and Hasson are floored by Dr. McAndrews. Btw, these forums know more about HT's than the plastic surgery idiots of Newport Beach and LA. Do you work for Dr McAndrews? 3382 FUE Lupanzula http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185463-3382-grafts-lupanzula.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Wow. I'm outta here. I see these forums (promoted and sometimes run by family and friends of surgeons) are geared just for the budget conscious willing to fly to far off places due to their small bank accounts. These forums are definitely not for me. ... KO you're suggesting that the Dr. was wanting a presence on some internet forum of budget-minded misinformed patients? No I think he's good with that.... Although I think it's funny you made that suggestion when several doctors (some of the same ones mentioned in this forum) have found to be operating shill sites and profiles to lure patients to their practices in Canada, India, Turkey, and others :-) Yes, I'm sure Shapiro and Konior and Hasson are floored by Dr. McAndrews. Btw, these forums know more about HT's than the plastic surgery idiots of Newport Beach and LA. I have seen the personal experiences on this site of all those doctors you mentioned and the things I see those doctors do is absolutely horrible and I would never have a HT from them even if done for free (I'd pay lots of money to keep them away from my head). The amount of misinformation and ignorance displayed on this site is staggering. Go ahead and keep thinking these charlatans are great surgeons, you'll find out in 5 years or so after your HT (if not sooner) how good they really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Blake Bloxham Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Sean, Just to refer back to what I said earlier; of the clinics you just listed, at least 3 of them are all technician FUE, and 2 of them have multiple procedural rooms and see 3-4 patients a day (and all this information is from first-hand patient experiences on the forums). There is always a reason why the price is different. If patients are aware of this and feel more comfortable paying a lower cost to undergo a procedure with unknown technicians as one of multiple patients that day, then that's fine. However, it isn't accurate to say the same services are being offered here for different prices. "Doc" Blake Bloxham - formerly "Future_HT_Doc" Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant for the Hair Transplant Network, the Hair Loss Learning Center, the Hair Loss Q&A Blog, and the Hair Restoration Forum All opinions are my own and my advice does not constitute as medical advice. All medical questions and concerns should be addressed by a personal physician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Wow. I can't believe you think that. Guess I should trade in my BMW for a Ford since money means nothing. You're just wishing for a hair transplant disaster aren't you. No I couldn't have. I know, I researched. So tell me one doctor at a fraction of the cost that does the whole procedure himself instead of some medical assistant with hardly any training? I have read the experiences of every doctor that has been listed in this thread and every patient said how the doctor was just advising most the time while some assistant did the work. Tell me one doctor at a fraction of the cost that is going to reserve the whole day for you and only you and not try and oversee 10 other operations at the same time while booking more before and after you? These procedures are extremely physically and mentally demanding of the surgeon, I'll be damned if I'm going to be patient number 3 for the day. Not only is there not a budget surgeon that will reserve the whole day for you and only you, I can't even think of other big name surgeons that do this. Tell me one other surgeon at a fraction of the cost that is going through the extra time and effort to make an incision and stitch that is virtually invisible and has hair growing through it? There's a special name for the stitch that I forget but even top doctors don't bother with it let alone budget ones. Tell me one budget doctor who has such skill, technique, and knowledge that not only is he demanded to be the lead instructor at one of the most prestigious medical schools in the world but he is also the main consultant for the two biggest multi-billion pharmaceutical companies that are in the hair medicine business? You think that these cheap guys you mention are good but they are horrible based on the experiences and documentation by members of this very forum I have seen. Every doctor you mention in this thread I have seen do surgeries for 5,000, 6,000, even 7,000 or more grafts at once! My doctor won't do more then 2,500 because you are losing tons of donor hair when you do that. You seem to think killing off your donor hair unnecessarily means nothing. You think it doesnt matter when surgeons mentioned in this thread put 4,000 grafts on a tiny thin hairline of a 25yo with almost a full head of hair. My surgeon would tell you that's about the worst thing a surgeon could ever do. Your surgeons listed passionately promote FUE despite the procedure completely destroying your very limited donor hair which is why mine won't do it. I have seen the after photos of all the surgeons you listed in this very forum and you misinformed people say "My god look at how closely those grafts are packed together this guy is the best surgeon!", I look at the same pictures and say "My god look at how closely those grafts are packed together this guy is a horrible surgeon why would he ever waste the hair packing them so close!". So yeah money does mean a little bit whether you like it or not. Sorry if that disappoints those who were hoping to rub two quarters together in Tijuana to get the same results as in NYC or LA but its the truth. If you can't handle the truth that is your problem. I'm just trying to help people out. Dr Raymond Konior - he charges around $5.5 a graft and does almost everything himself, including graft placements. Only books 1 patient a day. He is also definitely one of the top 5 surgeons on my list. Dr Bernstein does not do graft placements himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 ^^^ One reason I didn't go to Dr. Bernstein, but I still consider him one of the best due to his reputation and being on the forefront of new techniques/procedures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 In this thread alone I see Turkey and India, both of whom are hardly cradles of cutting-edge medicine. And searching the forums I see other budget surgeons from other questionable locales being touted as the best in the world. And yes Bernstein is $9 a graft for simple FUT. That is McAndrews price as well. I paid $38,000 for 4,200 FUT grafts with McAndrews and you pay that because you are getting the best. If you got an outstanding result, then that's definitely money well spent. However, I would bet my money that Dr Hasson, Dr Rahal, or Dr Ron Shapiro could have gotten just as good a result for 4,200 FUT grafts at an average cost of less than $6 a graft. And just to clarify, I researched the living daylights out of HT surgeons, and those three are consistently delivering outstanding results. I even consulted with Dr Bernstein, and he is not in their league. I did not research Dr McAndrews though - but glad he produced for you. My top lists were who I thought were the best of the best surgeons based purely on reviews and visual results from my own hours and hours of research - I did not factor in costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member FUE2014 Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 I personally consider Belgium to be the hair transplant capital of the world.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 ^^^ One reason I didn't go to Dr. Bernstein, but I still consider him one of the best due to his reputation and being on the forefront of new techniques/procedures. Definitely agree with you - he is a pioneer, outstanding reputation, and ultra fancy clinic in NY. However, to be honest, based on viewing tons of pictures, his results seem to be way to conservative, and he isn't producing many large mega-sessions. His proposed hairline for me was also way too high. I honestly believe the others I mentioned are producing better results. No knock on Dr Bernstein though, he had a month long waitlist just for a consult, and his clinic also had tons of other patients when I was there - so he must be doing very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 In this thread alone I see Turkey and India, both of whom are hardly cradles of cutting-edge medicine. And searching the forums I see other budget surgeons from other questionable locales being touted as the best in the world. And yes Bernstein is $9 a graft for simple FUT. That is McAndrews price as well. I paid $38,000 for 4,200 FUT grafts with McAndrews and you pay that because you are getting the best. Don't underestimate Turkey, a lot of disasters there, but Dr Erdogan is one of the best FUE surgeons on the planet. Once again - where did you see Libya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 his results seem to be way to conservative, and he isn't producing many large mega-sessions. His proposed hairline for me was also way too high. In all honesty this is why I say there is such huge ignorance on this site. The reasons you listed are why he is a GREAT surgeon and the reasons why you decided for the other surgeons are why they are bad. You think there might be a reason why the expensive docs with the best reps who are teachers at USC and Colombia are conservative, don't do mega-sessions, and propose a high hairline for you? I would tell you why but some how I don't think you'd believe me. It's a shame you don't already know despite your claim of having done tons of research.... Some hints are in my thread on Dr McAndrews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 I personally consider Belgium to be the hair transplant capital of the world.... Yes I know. And I personally consider Honduras to be the space flight capital of the world. Don't underestimate Turkey, a lot of disasters there, but Dr Erdogan is one of the best FUE surgeons on the planet. Once again - where did you see Libya? Libya and Turkey are the same thing. Libya just might be a bit more moderate though :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 I have seen the personal experiences on this site of all those doctors you mentioned and the things I see those doctors do is absolutely horrible and I would never have a HT from them even if done for free (I'd pay lots of money to keep them away from my head). The amount of misinformation and ignorance displayed on this site is staggering. Go ahead and keep thinking these charlatans are great surgeons, you'll find out in 5 years or so after your HT (if not sooner) how good they really are. Just curious - although I have seen rare bad reviews of Hasson and Shapiro - but I'm very curious as to what absolutely horrible things you have seen done by them? Especially Dr Konior - I am yet to find a single bad review on him to date. Please enlighten me sir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Libya and Turkey are the same thing. Libya just might be a bit more moderate though :-) Just looked at Google maps to confirm that I'm not a complete idiot - and it looks like Libya is in Africa whilst Turkey in Europe/Asia. Also did some quick research on wiki - and whilst Libya is a 3rd world country in the midst of a civil war & in complete disarray - Turkey appears to be a stable country doing okay for itself. How exactly are they the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Just curious - although I have seen rare bad reviews of Hasson and Shapiro - but I'm very curious as to what absolutely horrible things you have seen done by them? Especially Dr Konior - I am yet to find a single bad review on him to date. Please enlighten me sir? 1. Mega-sessions Grafts above 2,500 have about a %70 survival rate whereas grafts below 2,500 have about %100 survival rate. These doctors are effectively throwing at least %30 of your very limited donor hair in the trash. But mega-sessions make them more money so no concern there for them. 2. Pack grafts too close You guys see these pictures of densely packed grafts and fly off the handle about how great a surgeon they are but they are wasted grafts since the human eye can not tell the difference between much further spaced grafts. Again completely wasting your very limited donor hair. 3. Promoting FUE over FUT, sometimes passionately Again these guys don't seem to care about destroying your very limited donor hair. Nothing will decimate your donor supply like FUE which destroys sometimes %50 or more. (Don't think you need that now? Just wait 5 years.) 4. Bad incisions and sutures I have seen some crazy wide scars from some of these surgeons. Mine is like a pencil and has hair growing through it due to advance technique used. I'd pay more just for that. 5. HT Mill These guys have multiple patients being seen not just on the same day but all at the same time! Are you kidding me???? 6. Technicians doing majority of work Seriously? So you are giving thousands of your dollars to have some poorly trained low paid technician carve your head up? If I give thousands of dollars to a doctor to carve my head up then damn it the trained experienced doctor is the one doing it 7. Poor results that you guys think is GREAT! I have seen picture testimonials by patients of doctors in this thread who were in there 20's, had almost a full head of hair, and had 4,000 grafts placed on a thin hairline at the front. You guys commend it and think it's great because the guy now looks great with a full head of thick hair. I don't even know where to start on why that is actually absolutely horrible 8. Experience, technique, reputation, integrity, patient care, status, ect. ect. I don't want to go on forever. You guys do your own research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 In all honesty this is why I say there is such huge ignorance on this site. The reasons you listed are why he is a GREAT surgeon and the reasons why you decided for the other surgeons are why they are bad. You think there might be a reason why the expensive docs with the best reps who are teachers at USC and Colombia are conservative, don't do mega-sessions, and propose a high hairline for you? I would tell you why but some how I don't think you'd believe me. It's a shame you don't already know despite your claim of having done tons of research.... Some hints are in my thread on Dr McAndrews. But you got 4,200 grafts from McAndrews - that's a mega-session as well no? Not saying Bernstein isn't a great surgeon. Nothing wrong with taking a conservative approach. In fact, Dr Ron Shapiro has also recommended a more conservative approach to me as well compared with Dr Hasson, however, high NW patients looking for a transformation are not going to get it from a conservative approach. That's why a Dr Hasson who pushes the envelope is considered a top surgeon. Conservative approaches work for some, but for others with excessive donar supply - why not be more aggressive. My concern with Dr Bernstein is I don't think he necessarily caters for both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 But you got 4,200 grafts from McAndrews - that's a mega-session as well no? It would be if I got it all at once. There was 18 months in between surgeries. That's why a Dr Hasson who pushes the envelope is considered a bad surgeon. There I fixed it for you. Pushing the envelope and HT do not go together. Let me know how your "pushed the envelope" HT looks in 5 years. Doctors like Hasson are why doctors like McAndrews and Bernstein do mostly repair work. You want to be super happy for the next 3 years and then depressed for the next 50, or do you want to just be satisfied for the rest of your life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member FUE2014 Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Don't feed the troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Alpine1 Posted July 5, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 ^^^ Yes I'm just a troll making this stuff up. Ugh. You guys are hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 It would be if I got it all at once. There was 18 months in between surgeries. Aaahhh - gotcha. Can you post pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ontop Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Why do I smell a rat here? So you ask which top Drs soley does all & will charge the fraction of you 38K right? There are 2 top of my head in the US, doing FUT & FUE 1 ...Dt K 2 ...Dr V Europe....Dr L There many others, but being you done your research & spoke with everyone of them Drs so you say I'm wrong & your right Because you think that money can buy you the best of the best & you live in a dream world Maybe you have been wrapped up in cotton wool all your life. Most of these Forom Drs only do HT not some cosmetic nose jobs which every corner of LA has one that fits all. I bet your Dr does teeth also right? He sounds like a jack of all trades if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 5, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2015 Why do I smell a rat here? So you ask which top Drs soley does all & will charge the fraction of you 38K right? There are 2 top of my head in the US, doing FUT & FUE 1 ...Dt K 2 ...Dr V Europe....Dr L There many others, but being you done your research & spoke with everyone of them Drs so you say I'm wrong & your right Because you think that money can buy you the best of the best & you live in a dream world Maybe you have been wrapped up in cotton wool all your life. Most of these Forom Drs only do HT not some cosmetic nose jobs which every corner of LA has one that fits all. I bet your Dr does teeth also right? He sounds like a jack of all trades if you ask me. He had me when he stated Turkey & Libya are one and the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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