Help me decide: Dr. Koray Erdogan vs. Dr. Hakan Dognay

[mosd]

Looking at the pictures, I would see how the meds go, before considering a hair transplant. Your hair loss is very moderate imo.

 

My thought exactly but i can't style my hair! My temples in annoying that's why I wanted to fix them with as little grafts as possible then wait out the meds!

[FUE2014]

Lol @ 3500 graft estimate, where would he put them all?!?

[Swooping]

I had to make this decision 3 months ago. Eventually I chose for Doganay!

Edited April 29, 2015 by Swooping

[Dolph1969]

I'm really confused at this quote too. I was quoted 4500 from Erdogan, 3000-3500 from Demirsoy, 2800 from Doganay and 2000 From Saifi, based on the same pictures. All these Drs seem to work to a very high standard, but is very confusing.:confused:

 

I've attached a pic to give you an indication where i'm at.

[thatoldchestnut]

Erdogan almost always seems to go for a nw 1/1.5 look with full(ish) temple closure. I like it personally but it's not for everyone and obviously has the potential to eat into donors.

[mosd]

I had to make this decision 3 months ago. Eventually I chose for Doganay!

 

why doganay? Happy with choice?

[HairToday2015]

I'm really confused at this quote too. I was quoted 4500 from Erdogan, 3000-3500 from Demirsoy, 2800 from Doganay and 2000 From Saifi, based on the same pictures. All these Drs seem to work to a very high standard, but is very confusing.:confused:

 

I've attached a pic to give you an indication where i'm at.

 

4500 grafts for your case??? That's waaaay too much.

 

I can't see your vertex area obviously, but based on your pic, most of these estimates seem a bit too much in my opinion.

[Arrie]

That is my only reservation about Erdogan. He quoted me 4000 grafts when i was looking for 1500-2000 MAX! I think i only have about 4-5k grafts and i told him my poor donor characteristics and i negotiated it down to possible 2000 graft procedure. I have not booked anything yet as I am looking to maintain and keep up with what I have while putting FUE into my FUSS scar. Its a good thing you are doing your research, I would echo the thought that a 4500 graft quote is way too much for you. Best of luck

[Dolph1969]

4500 grafts for your case??? That's waaaay too much.

 

I can't see your vertex area obviously, but based on your pic, most of these estimates seem a bit too much in my opinion.

 

This is the vertex and side pic. I don't know where 3000 to 4500 comes from, when I've seen norwood 6 candidates get near full heads of hair with 4000 grafts.:confused::confused:

 

I'm presuming they modify the graft quote, after a face to face consultation and you pay for what is actually extracted?

 

I don't even think my donor area would have 4500 grafts?:confused: Like most on here, for my first time HT, I want to get it right.

 

As always, comments appreciated and sorry if this is a thread hi jack, but I think me and the original poster would appreciate from input.

 

My assessment of my hair is, the individual hairs are quite thick, but the density appears low to me.

[HairToday2015]

This is the vertex and side pic. I don't know where 3000 to 4500 comes from, when I've seen norwood 6 candidates get near full heads of hair with 4000 grafts.

 

I'm presuming they modify the graft quote, after a face to face consultation and you pay for what is actually extracted?

 

I don't even think my donor area would have 4500 grafts? Like most on here, for my first time HT, I want to get it right.

 

As always, comments appreciated and sorry if this is a thread hi jack, but I think me and the original poster would appreciate from input.

 

My assessment of my hair is, the individual hairs are quite thick, but the density appears low to me.

 

I'm balder than you are, and the maximum grafts I probably need is 4500. You seem like a 2500-3000 graft candidate tops. That should give you a balanced result that is both aesthetically pleasing, and easy on your donor area.

 

Re: Donor area, I'm sorta in the same boat. I don't really think mine is dense enough for 5000 grafts, so I don't understand how they quoted me such a high number. Hair thickness/caliber can make up low density, but I don't want to show up in Istanbul after a long flight to discover that they can only extract 3500 grafts safely, which will drastically alter my HT gameplan.

 

I also don't believe that Erdogan can get his trademark finish with a lesser graft count, esp with a Norwood 4 case such as myself (Hakan, Demirsoy and even Civas might be a good alternative). The estimation game being played here is quite ridiculous in my opinion.

 

And quit hijacking my thread, haha

[mosd]

I'm balder than you are, and the maximum grafts I probably need is 4500. You seem like a 2500-3000 graft candidate tops. That should give you a balanced result that is both aesthetically pleasing, and easy on your donor area.

 

Re: Donor area, I'm sorta in the same boat. I don't really think mine is dense enough for 5000 grafts, so I don't understand how they quoted me such a high number. Hair thickness/caliber can make up low density, but I don't want to show up in Istanbul after a long flight to discover that they can only extract 3500 grafts safely, which will drastically alter my HT gameplan.

 

I also don't believe that Erdogan can get his trademark finish with a lesser graft count, esp with a Norwood 4 case such as myself (Hakan, Demirsoy and even Civas might be a good alternative). The estimation game being played here is quite ridiculous in my opinion.

 

And quit hijacking my thread, haha

 

we all hijackead your thread sorry for that

 

But feels good to talk to people in the same boat. I cant find many pleasing results fron demirsroy, and what are the price per graft there?

[Swooping]

why doganay? Happy with choice?

 

As mentioned here Doganay can work with fewer grafts to obtain a more favourable result. The communication was way better too.

 

Erdogan rides the "safe" road to cover himself in with often a overestimation usage of grafts imo.

 

Yes I'm happy with my choice. Can't comment on my results yet though as I'm only 3 months in! Waiting time for me :cool:.

[HairToday2015]

As mentioned here Doganay can work with fewer grafts to obtain a more favourable result. The communication was way better too.

 

Erdogan rides the "safe" road to cover himself in with often a overestimation usage of grafts imo.

 

Yes I'm happy with my choice. Can't comment on my results yet though as I'm only 3 months in! Waiting time for me :cool:.

 

I read a post recently by a patient who had a HT with Dr. Hakan Doganay: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/179332-dr-hakan-doganay-2800-fue-26-y-o-november-2013-a.html

 

He seemed concerned about the transplant being uneven on one side (That area was transplanted by a Tech). I really don't like the idea of Tech's handling so much of the HT anyway, and I'm actually considering skipping both Docs and finding someone who is more hands down.

 

However, Hakan and his staff seem pretty legit, so you'll likely have a good result down the road. Please keep us posted on your progress.

Edited April 30, 2015 by HairToday2015

[HairToday2015]

I cant find many pleasing results fron demirsroy, and what are the price per graft there?

 

Last time I checked, Demirsoy charges 1.25 Euro per graft, plus 280 Euros for Hotels & Transfers. I didn't particularly agree with their recommendation and overall approach, plus their lack of flexibility in addressing my concerns was really disappointing...which is why I'm not going with them for my HT.

[JoeTillman]

I have to agree with you about not going too-aggressive in my first HT, especially with the Hairline. Since I was a Norwood 4/5v looking more like a early-stage Norwood 4 (with meds & supplements), I've been considering a more balanced HT that makes my hairline look natural and improves the Vertex.

 

Regarding the Hairline design, my frontal hairloss is mostly in the temple regions, so my natural hairline from my early twenties is somewhat intact and should serve as a good reference when designing the new-hairline. I likely won't be letting the Doc lower it too much, which *might* present a conflict during the pre-op consult if the Doc insists on something else. As I mentioned earlier, I still have an average-to-semi large Vertex area that needs to be filled in as well.

 

Some Docs/Clinics focus more on the Hair-line aesthetics vs balanced coverage (Koray and Demirsoy fall into this category..the latter recently after my interaction with his Clinic reps).

 

As member mosd wrote: "Dont want to use to much hair just so the doctor can put up a good case on the forums"

 

And another member FUE2014 wrote: "Erdogan does go for a lot more grafts than other docs and while that may be his method, I question whether it is always in the patient's best interests. Short term, perhaps, but long term not so sure. I prefer the less is more approach advocated by Bisanga, Reddy et al, but to each their own""

 

While having a lowered hairline would be awesome, having a sparsely covered crown or a depleted donor area might be depressing down the road. Alternatively (and perhaps a last resort), you can opt for a Body-Hair Transplant from Docs like Hakan if you qualify. So if you're a solid Norwood 4/5 case who had a 3600 grafts in Front/Mid-scalp and 800 grafts on the Vertex...there is still some hope if your Vertex or other areas are lacking.

 

But this shouldn't be a reason alone to take the risk of going for an aggressive HT. I'm actually doubting whether Dr. Koray or another HT-Doc will be able to extract 5000 grafts during the actual procedure - So I'm considering lowering my expectations, which is likely to compromise my Vertex coverage. It's a tough decision, fellas...

 

You seem like you have a decent grasp on your situation. I can honestly say to you, uncategorically, that having a lower hairline will rob you of any chance of having a positive cosmetic impact on the crown. I've not seen your photos (forgive me if you posted them somewhere) but if you are a NW5 or so then having a low hairline means you still have a bald crown. Having a more mature hairline and even light coverage in the crown means you are no longer bald, just mature. In fact, having a mature hairline with good density/coverage for the top and foregoing the crown for a second procedure is also a good idea. This allows for more grafts to be concentrated in one area each time. It's just one option but I think it is the safest. Too many times I've seen patients get a healthy number of grafts only to think the result is too thin because they wanted everything done in one procedure. It's something to think about. Btw, since you've had consultations already you are welcome to use my second opinion service on my website. I do this for patients of all clinics.

[BUSA]

As mentioned here Doganay can work with fewer grafts to obtain a more favourable result.

 

that cudnt be further from the truth....:rolleyes:

[BUSA]

You seem like you have a decent grasp on your situation. I can honestly say to you, uncategorically, that having a lower hairline will rob you of any chance of having a positive cosmetic impact on the crown. I've not seen your photos (forgive me if you posted them somewhere) but if you are a NW5 or so then having a low hairline means you still have a bald crown. Having a more mature hairline and even light coverage in the crown means you are no longer bald, just mature. In fact, having a mature hairline with good density/coverage for the top and foregoing the crown for a second procedure is also a good idea. This allows for more grafts to be concentrated in one area each time. It's just one option but I think it is the safest. Too many times I've seen patients get a healthy number of grafts only to think the result is too thin because they wanted everything done in one procedure. It's something to think about. Btw, since you've had consultations already you are welcome to use my second opinion service on my website. I do this for patients of all clinics.

why are making blanket statements like they are fact? you haven't even seen the guys photos and ur already ASSuming how much donor hair he has.

 

plenty of ppl who are NW5's can have an aggressive hairline and still fill in the crown perfectly fine. its been done numerous times. some ppl have 7000-8000 donor hairs. so ur telling me if someone transplants 6500 grafts in a NW5 that he can't have great coverage with a lowered hairline? cmon Joe....

 

thats just not true. ur entitled to ur opinion and I respect that but saying "uncategorically" if someone wants a lowered hairline it will rob them of ANY chance of addressing the crown is simply irresponsible advice and completely false!

 

especially if you have no clue how much donor hair he has. and not to mention body hair can also be used to fill in density. its been done thousands of times over the last few years but absent body hair its absolutely possible with ample donor hair.

[Swooping]

I read a post recently by a patient who had a HT with Dr. Hakan Doganay: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/179332-dr-hakan-doganay-2800-fue-26-y-o-november-2013-a.html

 

He seemed concerned about the transplant being uneven on one side (That area was transplanted by a Tech). I really don't like the idea of Tech's handling so much of the HT anyway, and I'm actually considering skipping both Docs and finding someone who is more hands down.

 

However, Hakan and his staff seem pretty legit, so you'll likely have a good result down the road. Please keep us posted on your progress.

 

I understand your concern. I was aware of this. That is why I had requests prior to my operation. One of them was 100% implantation by Doganay. A second one was maximum 1500 grafts a day. They complied to this. Were they not as flexible in this matter I wouldn't go with them. I found these aspects to be important.

 

Nonetheless if you don't feel comfortable with both, indeed look further. Simple as that. Eventually the decision is yours to make. Be educated so you can make a rational decision.The chance of failure is present even in the most skilled hands of a surgeon though. One can only try to minimize that.

 

Sure will keep my thread updated. Good luck in your search!

[walky]

You guys should check Zekeriya Kul as well. He charges 1 euro per graft and his results are very very satisfying. Unfortunately he refuses to translant more than 1500 grafts in a day . He also refuses to transplant on the vertex area.

[BUSA]

 

You guys should check Zekeriya Kul as well. He charges 1 euro per graft and his results are very very satisfying. Unfortunately he refuses to translant more than 1500 grafts in a day . He also refuses to transplant on the vertex area.

sounds like a real winner!!!!!:rolleyes:

[ontop]

Yep & you get a free baseball cap for life.

[JoeTillman]

why are making blanket statements like they are fact? you haven't even seen the guys photos and ur already ASSuming how much donor hair he has.

 

plenty of ppl who are NW5's can have an aggressive hairline and still fill in the crown perfectly fine. its been done numerous times. some ppl have 7000-8000 donor hairs. so ur telling me if someone transplants 6500 grafts in a NW5 that he can't have great coverage with a lowered hairline? cmon Joe....

 

thats just not true. ur entitled to ur opinion and I respect that but saying "uncategorically" if someone wants a lowered hairline it will rob them of ANY chance of addressing the crown is simply irresponsible advice and completely false!

 

especially if you have no clue how much donor hair he has. and not to mention body hair can also be used to fill in density. its been done thousands of times over the last few years but absent body hair its absolutely possible with ample donor hair.

 

 

Busa,

 

Well, let's explore this further. First, why did you capitalize the letters "ASS" when said I was "ASSuming".

 

If you re-read what I said, I did not say it would rob the patient of "ANY" chance of addressing the crown as in EVER. I'm talking about one procedure which is why I said it is good to sometimes break these things up into two sessions. Concentrate in the front in one session, then concentrate in the back for the second session. A true NW5 has a huge crown to deal with and 5000 grafts (which was the high estimate) will not make a huge difference, if any, if a low hairline is to be rebuilt.

 

When I talk about having a "lower hairline" I'm talking about what most people ask for in that they want closed temples and something resembling what they had before loss started, including temple recession. This can mean about 2000 grafts or more in addition to what would be necessary if they opted for a more mature hairline that still makes a huge improvement in facial framing and gives a more youthful appearance. The more mature the hairline the smaller the area to place hair. The smaller the area to place hair with the same number of grafts the higher the density will be. It's simple math. Since we're dealing with estimates of up to 5000 grafts then any crown coverage, again going by the NW5 category, will be weak at best with a low hairline. In fact, it would be a waste of time. Even with a higher hairline, in my experience, 5000 grafts leaves the patient wishing for more crown attention more times than not.

 

And no, I don't know what his donor is like but neither do you. I'm simply going in the information at hand and my own experience. He's had two consultations with two well known doctors so I cannot "ASSume" 6500 grafts are available in one procedure if neither of these doctors recommended as much and neither can you for that matter. In fact, I'm not sure where you got this number to begin with as no one else has mentioned it in this entire thread. The chances of him getting 6500 grafts in one procedure are next to zero and I don't need his photos to see this. I'm going on averages here but that is also why I invited the OP to use me as a second opinion resource because I'll tell him what the truth is regardless of whom he's dealing with or what he's been told. It's nice being able to talk about what's "possible" but in reality we have to deal with averages and not assume the upper crust of anything. Full coverage and a low hairline on a NW5 with 5000 grafts is not going to happen for the average patient. Maybe the patient has a small head. Maybe he has rope like hair shafts that are four times the diameter of the average hair shaft but this cannot be assumed and I have every right, and even the responsibility, to ASSume he's not an excpetional surgical candidate above and beyond what is average. My mission is to tell people the truth, not what they want to hear, because in the end the doctor doesn't have to deal with the outcome, the patient does.

[ontop]

IMO..

 

Guys with NW such as 2A & upwards need to be careful & kepp hairline mature as possible, then that would keep Money / folicals in the bank for later if need be.

 

You only can rob peter so much..its just simple maths in my eyes.

[BUSA]

fair enough Joe. but when you say ONE procedure cannot address the crown that depends on wat ur referring to.

 

some think ONE trip to a HT doctor can't achieve the desired result. that wud be true if its ONE day. but one trip cud be 1-4 days and that is certainly enough time to address the front, mid and crown with enough ample donor as well as many other factors which is wat most do these days.

 

Erdogan for example use to split his cases up 8-12 months apart but then realized that wasn't necessary and was seeing no benefit to doing that so his patients either stay one day for maybe 2500 grafts and multiple days for those that have larger areas to cover.

 

u didn't state whether or not IF he has adequate donor. u simply stated it can't be done if the HT surgeon is aggressive with the hairline. that simply is not accurate.

 

5000 grafts won't make an NW5 patients hair look full if he has to address the crown with a low hairline? again ur making blanket statements. some ppl have smaller heads Joe and don't require as many grafts to fill in such area.

 

and some have more doubles and triples then other therefore will give more density with the same amount of grafts and some have thicker hair. so again Joe, ur making blanket statements that are inaccurate.

 

ppl will read that and think its gospel cause they read it on this forum and ur a respected member. you need to be more careful with the advice u give out cause wat ur saying is not accurate with LOTS of patients out there.

 

and thousands of ppl out there have far more then 5000 grafts to donate. many have 6000 and 7000 grafts and that does NOT include BHT. are you saying those with 6000-7000 grafts can't have a full dense look as well?

 

I see u now represent someone who does not perform BHT so I guess thats why you have not commented on the use of body hair as well to give more density up top. its done all the time Joe by top BHT surgeons to fill in density.

 

Busa,

 

Well, let's explore this further. First, why did you capitalize the letters "ASS" when said I was "ASSuming".

 

If you re-read what I said, I did not say it would rob the patient of "ANY" chance of addressing the crown as in EVER. I'm talking about one procedure which is why I said it is good to sometimes break these things up into two sessions. Concentrate in the front in one session, then concentrate in the back for the second session. A true NW5 has a huge crown to deal with and 5000 grafts (which was the high estimate) will not make a huge difference, if any, if a low hairline is to be rebuilt.

 

When I talk about having a "lower hairline" I'm talking about what most people ask for in that they want closed temples and something resembling what they had before loss started, including temple recession. This can mean about 2000 grafts or more in addition to what would be necessary if they opted for a more mature hairline that still makes a huge improvement in facial framing and gives a more youthful appearance. The more mature the hairline the smaller the area to place hair. The smaller the area to place hair with the same number of grafts the higher the density will be. It's simple math. Since we're dealing with estimates of up to 5000 grafts then any crown coverage, again going by the NW5 category, will be weak at best with a low hairline. In fact, it would be a waste of time. Even with a higher hairline, in my experience, 5000 grafts leaves the patient wishing for more crown attention more times than not.

 

And no, I don't know what his donor is like but neither do you. I'm simply going in the information at hand and my own experience. He's had two consultations with two well known doctors so I cannot "ASSume" 6500 grafts are available in one procedure if neither of these doctors recommended as much and neither can you for that matter. In fact, I'm not sure where you got this number to begin with as no one else has mentioned it in this entire thread. The chances of him getting 6500 grafts in one procedure are next to zero and I don't need his photos to see this. I'm going on averages here but that is also why I invited the OP to use me as a second opinion resource because I'll tell him what the truth is regardless of whom he's dealing with or what he's been told. It's nice being able to talk about what's "possible" but in reality we have to deal with averages and not assume the upper crust of anything. Full coverage and a low hairline on a NW5 with 5000 grafts is not going to happen for the average patient. Maybe the patient has a small head. Maybe he has rope like hair shafts that are four times the diameter of the average hair shaft but this cannot be assumed and I have every right, and even the responsibility, to ASSume he's not an excpetional surgical candidate above and beyond what is average. My mission is to tell people the truth, not what they want to hear, because in the end the doctor doesn't have to deal with the outcome, the patient does.

[JoeTillman]

fair enough Joe. but when you say ONE procedure cannot address the crown that depends on wat ur referring to.

 

some think ONE trip to a HT doctor can't achieve the desired result. that wud be true if its ONE day. but one trip cud be 1-4 days and that is certainly enough time to address the front, mid and crown with enough ample donor as well as many other factors which is wat most do these days.

 

Erdogan for example use to split his cases up 8-12 months apart but then realized that wasn't necessary and was seeing no benefit to doing that so his patients either stay one day for maybe 2500 grafts and multiple days for those that have larger areas to cover.

 

u didn't state whether or not IF he has adequate donor. u simply stated it can't be done if the HT surgeon is aggressive with the hairline. that simply is not accurate.

 

5000 grafts won't make an NW5 patients hair look full if he has to address the crown with a low hairline? again ur making blanket statements. some ppl have smaller heads Joe and don't require as many grafts to fill in such area.

 

and some have more doubles and triples then other therefore will give more density with the same amount of grafts and some have thicker hair. so again Joe, ur making blanket statements that are inaccurate.

 

ppl will read that and think its gospel cause they read it on this forum and ur a respected member. you need to be more careful with the advice u give out cause wat ur saying is not accurate with LOTS of patients out there.

 

and thousands of ppl out there have far more then 5000 grafts to donate. many have 6000 and 7000 grafts and that does NOT include BHT. are you saying those with 6000-7000 grafts can't have a full dense look as well?

 

I see u now represent someone who does not perform BHT so I guess thats why you have not commented on the use of body hair as well to give more density up top. its done all the time Joe by top BHT surgeons to fill in density.

 

...but when you say ONE procedure cannot address the crown that depends on wat ur referring to.

 

No, it doesn't. I'm referring to the person that started this thread. I said that he won't be able to have a low aggressive hairline and meaningful crown coverage with 5000 grafts in one session and qualified this by saying it may happen if he has above average characteristics such as a small head or thick hair shafts but again we are getting back to what should be expected for an average patient. It's black and white.

 

 

I stand by what I said because as I've already stated I was going by the information at hand and combined it with what I know to be true for the average patient. We're not talking about above average donor areas. We're not talking about body hair. We're talking about what has already been stated and recommended by the member doctors, whom are both well respencted. I really don't see how you can debate that.

 

some ppl have smaller heads Joe and don't require as many grafts to fill in such area.

 

Yes, I know. That's why I said...

 

Maybe the patient has a small head. Maybe he has rope like hair shafts that are four times the diameter of the average hair shaft but this cannot be assumed and I have every right, and even the responsibility, to ASSume he's not an excpetional surgical candidate above and beyond what is average.

 

The number of days it takes for "one session" is irrelevant. 5000 grafts is 5000 grafts and if the OP wants a low hairline and significant crown coverage as a NW5 it isn't going to happen. Two days, four days or two weeks to get 5000 grafts does not change this. What you are talking about with regards to the potential is dependent on getting far more than what the OP said himself was recommended by the two doctors he consulted with. You keep talking about 7000 or 8000 grafts but those numbers have nothing to do with this case. Why do you keep saying this? We're not talking body hair, we're not talking about any numbers higher than what the OP said WAS RECOMMENDED by the doctors. Maybe you are confusing the issue of what is possible with 5000 grafts vs. what is possible for final graft counts and what can happen if these counts are pushed to their maximum. These are two competely different discussions.

 

ppl will read that and think its gospel cause they read it on this forum and ur a respected member. you need to be more careful with the advice u give out cause wat ur saying is not accurate with LOTS of patients out there.

 

I can appreciate this point but you are asking me to be careful to not lower expectations? Seriously? Let me repeat what my website slogan is. "Think. Learn. Apply". This means that one should think about what I say, learn from what I say and apply it to their own situation. If it makes sense, great. If it doesn't then they are still thinking, they are still learning, and they are still applying whatever they learn to their own situation. This is all I ask of people and if they think it makes sense for them then so be it. If they do not then I wish them all the best but to say that what I'm telling the OP is irresponsible is, well, irresponsible. I'm urging caution and realistic expectations.

 

As far as me being a representative for Dr. Karadeniz, I am not his representative, so I have no interest in getting into the political clinic battle you are trying to start. Been there, done that, no thank you so please don't try that route with me. I will be crystal clear on this point. I am my own person. I have my own opinions and I will not be swayed or influenced by anyone just because their name is in my signature as someone I work with. Dr. Karadeniz is my colleague, not my employer and we choose to work together. I like body hair as filler (much more detail deserves to go with this but ask me later) but whether or not Dr. K performs body hair transplantation is irrelevant because body hair is irrelevant to this discussion. I'll repeat, the OP said his recomendation was as high as 5000 grafts. He is a NW5. That is all that is relevant. That is all that matters. If my very educated and very experienced opinion clashes with your opinion that is fine, everyone is entitled for sure, but I'll remind you that my postion would be considered as the responsible one of the two as I'm promoting caution, reason and reality that should be expected for the average patient. What you are promoting is the dream of what might be possible if all of the stars align properly. I will not be associated with such promotion because as I said earlier, been there, done that, no thank you as the stars don't align as often as people hope they do. Both doctors mentioned do really good work but I'm positive both of them would agree with me if they were to pitch their respective opinions in this thread. I don't know if you could say the same.

 

And this isn't a slight on the abilities of Dr. Koray or Dr. Doganay. They both appear to be fine HT doctors and have happy patients. I feel this should be made clear.