Can it be that reviews are distorted?

[Hairtoday54]

Hello! I just recently joined, and asked a couple of questions (one about BHT and the other about Dr. Frechet's technique). I have had two flaps performed about 16 years ago, but have had continued balding behind, and Frechet's technique seemed intriguing. However, on this site (and one other) his work - and that of pretty much ANYONE who performs flaps or scalp reductions or extensions - was almost universally blasted, criticized, and denigrated.

 

Yet, I am VERY happy with the results I obtained (I posted recent photos, and the remarks were pretty much that I was the RARE exception, and that I had won the hair restoration via flap surgery lottery, because my results were so good!

 

However, could it be that the only ones on this site are those who are disgruntled with their results, and so are the only ones who will comment? That is to say, those of us who were satisfied pretty much get on with our lives and no longer peruse these hair sites? That is certainly the case with me: for many years I was completely happy with my results and it has only been recently that I began desiring to have additional work done. So, I have NOT even looked at a hair loss site or blog for 16 years. Perhaps there are thousands more like me who have had GREAT work done by surgeons like Mayer and Fleming, and you just never hear from us because - well, we just got on with our lives...

 

I do NOT want to sound critical or dismissive of those who do post on these sites; I am just suggesting that the sample groups and audience do not necessarily include those among us who have had successful flaps and reductions, and just don't chime in....

 

Your thoughts?

 

By the way, based on recommendations from several here, I am making appointments with several apparently competent and respected surgeons, for evaluations. But I am also considering flying to see Dr. Frechet, at the recommendation of a local and respected, who surgeon who likes Frechet, but who also gave a balanced and fair opinion of his work. He stated he is one of the best in the world (noting he has pretty much won every industry award there is), but also adding that he obviously only brings his success stories to conferences and symposiums).

 

I do appreciate the advice and opinions offered here - thank you!

[xtatic5]

I would agree that you're going to get biased responses when it comes to outdated transplant techniques. I would venture to guess that a majority of active members on this forum are within five years of their first transplant and are unfamiliar with flap surgery. The thought of a surgeon offering such an invasive surgery given the less invasive methods available today is unsettling to us folks. Case in point, some members are already demonizing the strip method in favor of FUE. I don't know that I'd discount a surgeon simply because he performs old techniques as well as new. He's probably just been in the business for a long time and never removed it from his list of available services (why would you? More potential revenue). Though I suppose one could make a case for ethics.

[Hairtoday54]

Thanks for your response, xtatic5 - although I am not sure there is a case that it is unethical to perform older - even more invasive - techniques, if they work. I have met numerous flap patients (one locally, when I was looking for "live" examples, and several while actually at Dr. Mayer's offices, just awaiting consultations, or procedures). ALL of those I have personally seen looked great!

 

One big advantage, if one is willing to undergo the more "invasive" procedures, is the instant hair gain - i went from very little hair up front and on top to a full head instantly. In fact, a "disadvantage" was I had to deal with people's remarks about such an obvious (overnight) transition. Many thought I had bought a wig. However, I have only on rare occasions noticed anyone that didn't know me prior to my surgeries giving me "that" look (i.e. at my hairline, noticing a procedure) - and those were people with hair loss who were probably "tuned in" to notice.

 

That said, had the state of the industry 16 years ago been what it is now, I most likely would have opted for FUE or FUT. But neither of those procedures would give you the density I now enjoy in front and on top. I am now just looking for the "biggest bang" for my bucks to finish the crown and back, with the best results. I am not sure how this works, but if you can somehow search for my posts using my name, you'll see my photos. I have only posted on two threads that I started...

[gambler]

Hi Hairtoday,

 

First of all, I will speak up in favour of the Frechet scalp extender.

 

I was in dire straights after being butchered by UK surgeons many years ago and had a Frechet extender fitted in 1994 (as suggested by Dr Damkerng Pathomvanich who later became one of the recommended HT surgeons on here).

 

The Frechet extender was a great success and was an absolute LIFE SAVER for me. Frechet performed a slight flap operation a few months later after removing the extender and later I had a couple of FUT sessions with Dr Pat which enabled me to get complete coverage - something that was previously unthinkable considering my starting point.

 

The Frechet extender was fantastic technology for the time and it may still have a place these days - but only for people who are in a dire situation.

 

However, in your case, you are not in a dire situation and there is other less intrusive technology available these days that will serve you better. You don't therefore need the Frechet extender and you should forget about scalp reductions as they don't work - something I found out to my cost.

 

You only appear to have a minor problem (I can't see any obvious hair loss in your photos). Personally, if I was in your situation, I would go for FUE to fill the thinning areas but I would ONLY consider a surgeon who can offer some form of donor regeneration like Dr Gho or other recommended surgeons who are getting donor regeneration with the use of A-Cell (I would also be quite happy to use Dr Nigam but that's another issue). This will achieve your objective of obtaining maximal results without further depleting your donor area.

 

Dr Gho's method will give you around 80% donor regeneration but would require a trip to the Netherlands and there are US based surgeons getting 50%+ donor regeneration using A-Cell.

 

You also have the option of using beard hair to re-charge the donor area which would give a great result and allow more scalp hair to be made available for transplant.

 

Best of luck whatever you decide.

[Hairtoday54]

Thank you Gambler for your comments. I will say that I have more bald area than my photos reveal: that is one advantage of the density of my flaps - I can conceal that area quite well! I am going to try to post some photos of my crown if I can - I have had difficulty so far. 50% regeneration here in the states is pretty impressive: is this anecdotal info, or hard facts?

[greatjob]

US based surgeons getting 50%+ donor regeneration using A-Cell.

 

Can you please provide links to back up these claims. I know Dr. Cooley was experimenting with plucking and Acell but I don't recall him getting anywhere near 50% regeneration. Also I have reviewed all of Dr. Gho's literature and I have serious doubts about his claims. He doesn't have the best track record, and although his work has been published in peer reviewed journals, I have colleagues who have been published that I wouldn't trust with a potato gun, so I will hold out judgement on Dr. Gho until he provides more evidence instead of having his fanboys prove his theories on other forums.

[Sparky]

I don't think that donor regeneration exists at all, I've never seen any good results from Gho and think it's all hype.

[gambler]

Can you please provide links to back up these claims. I know Dr. Cooley was experimenting with plucking and Acell but I don't recall him getting anywhere near 50% regeneration.

 

I could do but apparently the forum policy doesn't allow it :rolleyes:

[gambler]

I don't think that donor regeneration exists at all, I've never seen any good results from Gho and think it's all hype.

 

Well, there will always be naysayers :rolleyes:

 

With all due respect, you have haven't looked very hard and It's irrelevant what you "think".

 

The proof is in the pudding.........and there's no finer proof than board members who have had the procedure themselves and documented their results.

 

Take a look on some other well known forums where board members like gc83uk and IronMan have photographed their post operative donor areas in macro detail and painstakingly mapped and counted the follicular regeneration.....and guess what? ...the results are entirely consistent....more than 80% regrowth. This is solid factual evidence that goes way beyond "opinion" and "hype". Dr Gho is the real deal.

[Sparky]

For a start, I wouldn't believe a word that Ironman says, I've done plenty of research, and had a few unhappy Gho patients email me for my opinion on what to do next.

 

You believe what you like and I will express my opinion when I like and my opinion is that it doesn't work. All the pictures I've seen so far have shown a very thin result in the recipient, it's not all about the donor you know.

 

My opinion is that regeneration does not exist anymore than perpetual motion.

[greatjob]

Ironman is a troll and I'm pretty sure he is affiliated with Gho in some way. I have seen all of those posts on the bald truth talk and they definitely don't prove Dr. Gho's claim of donor regeneration. Dr. Gho has a very poor track record throughout his career making wild claims and not thoroughly backing them up. And even if he is getting the regeneration he claims his results in the recipient area are piss poor and not on par with the majority of surgeons on this site. Ultimately a HT is about results whether there is donor regeneration or not, and Gho's work is very unimpressive.

 

I know all about all of Gho's cases, when I asked for links I was refering to your claim that surgeons were seeing 50% regeneration with Acell. I stay up to date on most treatments and I have yet to see anyone documenting regeneration at that rate using Acell

 

To the original poster, people on here may be a little biased towards flap and expansion/reduction procedures because we have not every seen any success stories and to be honest they are outdated procedures just like plugs, micro and mini grafts. I think you have been fortunate because from looking at your pics it seems to be pretty successful but I wouldn't risk going that route again when there are much better treatments out there

[Sparky]

Before you answer, maybe this thread isn't the place for this discussion as it's obviously not what the OP wanted to talk about, you could start a new topic regarding this if you like?

[gambler]

For a start, I wouldn't believe a word that Ironman says

The only reason Ironman was mentioned is that he is an example of someone who had particularly well documented results. I couldn't care less about his internet persona etc - I'm only interested in the evidence he put forward.

　

 

I've done plenty of research, and had a few unhappy Gho patients email me for my opinion on what to do next.

 

I've got no interest in getting into a pro-anti Gho debate (seems to be quite an emotional issue for some of you guys). He is merely mentioned as one party that can offer hair multiplication but not the only one. And let's get real..Gho has a massive waiting list, many of whom are repeat customers ...that's hardly likely to be the case if he has a crappy technique that doesn't work.

 

 

All the pictures I've seen so far have shown a very thin result in the recipient, it's not all about the donor you know.

 

We've obviously been looking at different pics (and videos) then...because the ones I've seen show good results in both the donor & recipient.

 

 

My opinion is that regeneration does not exist anymore than perpetual motion

 

Lol.......perpetual motion is here mate...Dr Nigam has already demonstrated that his donor doubling technique works and you'll get plenty more evidence over the coming months.

　

 

Ironman is a troll and I'm pretty sure he is affiliated with Gho in some way. I have seen all of those posts on the bald truth talk and they definitely don't prove Dr. Gho's claim of donor regeneration. Dr. Gho has a very poor track record throughout his career making wild claims and not thoroughly backing them up. And even if he is getting the regeneration he claims his results in the recipient area are piss poor and not on par with the majority of surgeons on this site. Ultimately a HT is about results whether there is donor regeneration or not, and Gho's work is very unimpressive.

Lol....nice rant but utterly biased nonsense (IMO) and not really worth a reply. Let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree on that

 

 

when I asked for links I was refering to your claim that surgeons were seeing 50% regeneration with Acell. I stay up to date on most treatments and I have yet to see anyone documenting regeneration at that rate using Acell

 

There is a surgeon who claims results in that vicinity and I responded in post#8...do keep up.

　

 

Before you answer, maybe this thread isn't the place for this discussion as it's obviously not what the OP wanted to talk about, you could start a new topic regarding this if you like?

　

On the contrary, some remarks can't go unchallenged so kindly don't be so patronising. I'm actually the one poster who fully addressed the OP's comments. as I can speak from experience.

 

The photos show that the OP has got a much bigger area to cover than I originally thought (you have a nice disguise going on there HairToday).

 

He also wishes to have maximal results and not just thin coverage. FUE alone will get coverage but not at the density he desires without multiplication or by other means.

 

 

 

[greatjob]

Lol....nice rant but utterly biased nonsense (IMO) and not really worth a reply. Let's just say we'll have to agree to disagree on that

 

Really? Nothing in my post was nonsense or biased. Please if you want to have a meaningful conversation based on facts act like a big boy instead of resorting to dismissive useless responses. Not one of Dr. Gho's results in his photo gallery on his own website is on par with any of the top traditional HT clinics that are posted everyday. What is the point of getting a HT with regeneration if the recipeint area only sees marginal mediocre improvements? The ultimate goal of a HT is to restore the hair on top of the head and Gho is severley lacking in that aspect. Donor regeneration and hair multiplication are definitely the future, but it is not here yet in any meaningful form.

There is a surgeon who claims results in that vicinity and I responded in post#8...do keep up.

 

 

Keep up with what? Here is your post #8:

 

I could do but apparently the forum policy doesn't allow it :rolleyes:

 

Kindly explain how that tells me anything about you claiming there is a doctor that is getting 50% regeneration with Acell, and please keep you pompous condescending tone and comments to yourself. You make pretty bold claims about the state of regeneration with nothing to back it up, and we're all supposed to what bow down at your feet and thank you?

[gambler]

Really? Nothing in my post was nonsense or biased. Please if you want to have a meaningful conversation based on facts act like a big boy instead of resorting to dismissive useless responses. Not one of Dr. Gho's results in his photo gallery on his own website is on par with any of the top traditional HT clinics that are posted everyday. What is the point of getting a HT with regeneration if the recipient area only sees marginal mediocre improvements? The ultimate goal of a HT is to restore the hair on top of the head and Gho is severley lacking in that aspect. Donor regeneration and hair multiplication are definitely the future, but it is not here yet in any meaningful form.

 

 

Which part of "we'll have to agree to disagree on that" do you fail to comprehend? It's pointless repeating your mantra. It's obvious we have widely divergent views on the subject and I strongly disagree with yours. I'm not interested in going round in circles or getting involved in "tit for tat" exchanges and I can't be ar$ed spending the time to refute your points one by one. Not going there.....particularly as my remarks were just a supplementary point to the OP's original question.

So that's it : agree to disagree.

 

 

Kindly explain how that tells me anything about you claiming there is a doctor that is getting 50% regeneration with Acell, and please keep you pompous condescending tone and comments to yourself. You make pretty bold claims about the state of regeneration with nothing to back it up,

 

1. I've already said I can't post the name or a link due to forum policy (blocked by software). Which part of that do you fail to comprehend?

2. No, the surgeon in question makes those claims and has his own data - I'm merely repeating his observations

3. I'm surprised you don't know since you claim to be "up to date on most treatments"

4. I could send you a PM with a link, but seeing as you posted such a rude reply I will just say : GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND. USE IT

 

 

and we're all supposed to what bow down at your feet and thank you?

 

Please keep your pompous condescending tone and comments to yourself

 

By the way.... that's my last comments on this thread. Feel free to have the last word

[greatjob]

Which part of "we'll have to agree to disagree on that" do you fail to comprehend? It's pointless repeating your mantra. It's obvious we have widely divergent views on the subject and I strongly disagree with yours. I'm not interested in going round in circles or getting involved in "tit for tat" exchanges and I can't be ar$ed spending the time to refute your points one by one. Not going there.....particularly as my remarks were just a supplementary point to the OP's original question.

So that's it : agree to disagree.

 

 

 

1. I've already said I can't post the name or a link due to forum policy (blocked by software). Which part of that do you fail to comprehend?

2. No, the surgeon in question makes those claims and has his own data - I'm merely repeating his observations

3. I'm surprised you don't know since you claim to be "up to date on most treatments"

4. I could send you a PM with a link, but seeing as you posted such a rude reply I will just say : GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND. USE IT

 

 

 

Please keep your pompous condescending tone and comments to yourself

 

By the way.... that's my last comments on this thread. Feel free to have the last word

Once again thank you for posting a completely useless response with no substance whatsoever. The only reason my last reply was rude is because your response to my first comment was condescending, arrogant, rude and completely meaningless, you get back what you put out into the world pal. I can understand that you don't want to be involved in a circular conversation since your response to any inquiry for proof to back up any claims you make is sure to be completely useless and only filled with attacks based on fabrications you make in your head.

 

Hey everybody there are these two doctors that have cured baldness rendering HT's completely useless, I can't provide any evidence or mention their names, but if you are too stupid to not take my word for it we will have to agree to disagree because you are an idiot who cant comprehend that I am a genius. Sound kinda familiar there Gambler?

[Jotronic]

Until we see massive amounts of hair transplanted via these regeneration techniques that are far above and beyond what is performed with traditional FUE or even with large scale FUT then donor regeneration, doubling, whatever you wish to call it is a load. We should be seeing final results after a few procedures that venture into five digits, easily transforming patients with NW6 loss into seriously impressive full on transformations.

 

To the OP, there have been some great success stories with flap and expanders. I've seen them myself but the industry moved on from these types of procedures as they were considered very painful and unreliable. Flaps would often cause issues with hair direction and while the density was outstanding they typically caused more problems than they solved. I'm glad yours worked out and that the result has brought you many years of satisfaction.

[Hairtoday54]

Hey guys, "can't we all just get along?"... :-) Seriously, I appreciate all of the remarks, advice, and opinions related to my original post. I have about narrowed it down to one of the Shapiros or Dr. Lindsey. I shall probably meet with both, and whichever one says they can make me look 20 again, gets my business! :-).

[Blake Bloxham]

Guys,

 

Personally, I think the science behind donor doubling/donor regeneration is sound. However, like Jo said, thus far, the tangible evidence simply isn't there yet. I look forward to seeing the science and procedure evolve. However, at this point in time, it's very hard to recommend that any patient "push off" proven procedures in the hopes that doubling, multiplication, etc, evolves into a viable treatment in the next few years.

 

Hair,

 

That's great news! Drs. Shapiro and Dr. Lindsey are excellent, and I look forward to updates from your consultations!

[Nick153452]

Hey guys, "can't we all just get along?"... :-) Seriously, I appreciate all of the remarks, advice, and opinions related to my original post. I have about narrowed it down to one of the Shapiros or Dr. Lindsey. I shall probably meet with both, and whichever one says they can make me look 20 again, gets my business! :-).

 

 

I'll make you look 20 years again I just may make you look like an ugly 20 year old!!:cool:

 

On a more serious note, I love the Shapiro Brothers. They are both extremely nice. Dr. Ron took a lot of time to go through things with me even though he knew I wasn't haven't my procedure with him, but his brother. Dr. Paul is equally kind and knowledgeable. Come to think of it, everybody at Shapiro is nice.

 

I am really hoping that my results from Paul make me look not necessarily younger, but just overall sexier!. I went conservative, listening to the suggestion of Matt Zupan, Paul and Ron Shapiro. All three of them couldn't possibly be wrong

[Sparky]

Ironman isn't qualified to put forward any evidence, which scientific journals, or professionals have verified gho's work?

 

Nigam, hasn't achieved perpetual motion, if he did he wouldn't be in the ht industry as he would be the richest man alive.

[Cant decide]

Nick - I just looked at your profile and it says your doc was Dr. Paul Rose. I know its Paul Shapiro. I thought you may want to correct it.

[Hairtoday54]

Sexier works,too, Nick - I'd love to be sexier for my beautiful bride! I am very excited an anxious to get something going. Matt Zupan promised me I'd look just like Brad Pitt! Okay, I am kidding! I haven't talked to Matt yet - I am having a phone consultation on Friday, however. If I do look like Pitt, it'll probably be his character early in the The Curious Case of Benjamin Button! :-)

 

I shall keep everyone posted...

[Dr. William Lindsey]

I'm not sure if you are the fellow that I recently communicated with or not, but you are on the right path. The Shapiros are top notch and worthy of visit as much as I am. Dr. Kabaker out in California is talented too with hard cases like this. He and my fellowship director were close back in the mid 90s so I KNOW that he can sew and reconstruct well on complex problems.

 

You have a hard problem which may or may not have a reasonable treatment option.

 

Be careful in deciding whether to do anything. With your hair styled in one of those pictures, you look "unremarkable". That is my kind of doctor-speak which means normal.

 

The halls of medicine are littered with people seeking perfection who wound up worse off that when they started.

 

Good luck to you whomever you choose.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[Hairtoday54]

I'm not sure if you are the fellow that I recently communicated with or not, but you are on the right path. The Shapiros are top notch and worthy of visit as much as I am. Dr. Kabaker out in California is talented too with hard cases like this. He and my fellowship director were close back in the mid 90s so I KNOW that he can sew and reconstruct well on complex problems.

 

You have a hard problem which may or may not have a reasonable treatment option.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

 

Thank you Dr. Lindsey- it was indeed me with whom you spoke! I vacillate back and forth - Shapiro actually said I might consider Frechet; if anyone could get me what I am looking for, it would be him...IF it were possible. The thing is, until Frechet looked at it himself, I won't know! However, if he COULD do his procedure, the costs would ultimately be about the same - with much quicker results - than a series of FUT/FUE procedures.

 

I have some things going on in the next few months, so not sure when I can get any appointments scheduled for consultations...