Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 16, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted April 16, 2010 I am extremely concerned about something that another member posted on here today. This individual and I went to the same doctor at about the same time and both experienced little or no growth. The other individual went to Dr. Hasson who removed the old grafts that had been placed by the previous doctor and showed him how they had all been pushed in too hard and were kinked at the end leaving them with no chance of growing, saying it was the fault of the hair techs. I have been on a three year nightmare with this previous doctor. Even after accepting a free second procedure from him I had very little growth and he refused to refund even a part of my money. Is it possible for me to get examined by a competent doctor and find out if the same thing happened to me? If I had the same issue would these grafts still be viable? Since grafts are finite and I can never regain them again (until cloning is available) I am desperate to regain what this doctor removed that never surfaced. I'm not sure how the doctor would know where to look for grafts that didn't surface unless they make incisions around bald areas and just look at random but if this is possible it may be worth it since my donor supply is about exhausted at this point. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted April 17, 2010 Share Posted April 17, 2010 TTDS, I would imagine that grafts pushed down too hard would become damaged with no chance of growing nor reusable. I would also imagine that if Dr. Hasson extracted the previously transplanted grafts on this other patient, that they were somehow visible or obvious scarring on the patient's scalp let on there was a graft implanted there. I think you should really find out more detail from the patient. As for your own case, I understand how upsetting this journey has been for you. As much as I'd love to tell you that previously transplanted hair that didn't grow can be extracted and redistributed, I highly doubt this is a possibility - however, it doesn't hurt to check with your doctor. Hopefully you'll have terrific growth from your latest procedure with Dr. Shapiro and onwards. And then soon enough, your long hard journey will be a thing of the past. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 17, 2010 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2010 That is why I titled this thread 'Disturbing News'. I figured the grafts were unsalvageable. It depresses me to think that priceless finite grafts may have been in the hands of inexperience techs who damaged them. I will never recover them nor have the possibility of realizing the full potential from a hair transplant because of the possible negligence I encountered all by a highly rated physician on this site. To add injury to insult I paid a lot of money to have this done to me and was refused even a partial refund because the doctor said he did not know what I was basing the request on. This was after other doctors indicated I did not have the growth I should have for the amount of grafts placed. I did not judge this doctor quickly in the event I was one of those 'X' patients who a transplant would not work for (I was examined by a top dermatologist who said I had no scalp condition that would prevent a successful outcome) but I'm already noticing growth from my third procedure from Dr. Shapiro that I didn't with the previous doctor. The other patient had a similar experience. No growth from our mutual doctor but a lot of growth after his procedure with Dr. Hasson. I have complete confidence in Dr. Shapiro on many levels so I haven't thrown in the towel yet after three years of waiting for results and so much time off work for appointments etc. I may never realize the full potential I could have if I'd have gone to Dr. Shapiro the first time but it is what it is. On the flip side if it weren't for this site I'd have never known about Dr. Shapiro. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member EpilepticSceptic Posted April 17, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2010 Sorry to hear about this brother. Is this the same poster who said that the techs came in hungover and talking about last night's frat party ? Oh well, I guess there should be a coalition within the coalition; ya know, like a platinum club for UR FUT. I guess there would only be 2 or maybe 3 clinics at the most who would qualify to be in it. BTW, the OP says that Epstein is recommended on this site, but I don't see him listed on the coalition list. Was he listed before and now has been removed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member aaron1234 Posted April 17, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2010 Yes, Epstein used to be recommended on this site. But a year or two he was removed because there was an unusually high number of complaints coming from patients of his. There is a lot more to the story but that is it in a nutshell. Dr. G: 1,000 grafts (FUT) 2008 Dr. Paul Shapiro: 2,348 grafts (FUT) 2009 ~ 1,999 grafts (FUT) 2011 ~ 300 grafts (Scar Reduction) 2013 Dr. Konior: 771 grafts (FUT) 2015 ~ 558 grafts (FUT) 2017 ~ 1,124 grafts (FUE) 2020 My Hair Transplant Journey with Shapiro Medical Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member fritz68 Posted April 17, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted April 17, 2010 So since I had a procedure with Dr. Epstein a few months back I guess I should be worried eh? This is not pleasant reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted April 17, 2010 Share Posted April 17, 2010 Labrat, Dr. Epstein is no longer recommended by this community. You can read more about it on this topic. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 17, 2010 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 17, 2010 I wish I could go back in time. I'd do things very differently. Just because someone is recommended on this site does not guarantee you good results. I did my homework and everything I could possibly do to make a well informed decision and I was still left almost $10,000 poorer and cosmetically unacceptable hair. I asked his office if they would be happy with the results I achieved and they never answered back. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member growingnow Posted April 19, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted April 19, 2010 out of all my research ive came to a conclusion that there is only truly about 4 maybe 5 good ht docs, and there is so many docs. but i say this based on consistency. there are alot of good docs who do good work here and there but would you want to take that chance? unfortunately you are not alone my friend so many people are geting terrible results these days. im just thankfull i choosed the right doc and not just the closest one to me or the chiepest like alot of people do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mountinvan Posted April 19, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted April 19, 2010 There are more than 4 or 5 good HT docs--from my research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sparky Posted July 2, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 2, 2010 Sounds like an Armani contract. My Hairloss Website http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=2198 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mattj Posted July 2, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 2, 2010 I am pretty sure I am in the same boat. I can put very limited information on here. I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice. I had a procedure done last year and it totally ruined my hair and scalp. I was a NW2 and now am past a 3. The shock loss made my whole frontal region fall out and had no growth. I signed a document called "mutual agreement to maintain privacy", so I am unsure how far I can describe what happened to me without being sued...any advice? I doubt very much if you could be legally bound to not discuss your hair transplant at all. In some situations, forums like this might be the only places a patient can turn to, and nobody has the right to withhold the potentially valuable advice from you. To be safe, it's probably best not to say who your doctor was, but you can describe your situation. But of course I'm not a lawyer and I haven't read your contract. I'm just saying what seems reasonable. It would be prudent, though, to ensure that you have exhausted all avenues of assistance with the clinic who performed your transplant. I am a patient and representative of Dr Rahal. My FUE Procedure With Dr Rahal - Awesome Hairline Result I can be contacted for advice: matt@rahalhairline.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Danielkiwi Posted July 2, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 2, 2010 Hi used and abused I am sure you are concerned about signing the document as you dont want to be sued in addition to be bald...It would help to detail your experience so that people on this forum can give you advice...first of all, was this a coalition doctor? you dont have to name the doctor but if yes, you could shoot an email to Bill or Pat and i am sure they will resolve your issue..what is your goal? Are you planning to get some kind of refund or you just want to expose the doctor so that others can make informed decisions..Good luck and please be aware that there are solutions but you will have to keep a strong will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Danielkiwi Posted July 2, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 2, 2010 sorry to hear that but all of us especially those on the fence would really appreciate what you mean by "i just want people not to make the same mistake i did" Are you saying dont consider a HT at all or dont go to your doctor!! is your doctor recommened on this network Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Shadow of the EMpire State Posted July 3, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 3, 2010 (edited) I am pretty sure I am in the same boat. I can put very limited information on here. I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice. I had a procedure done last year and it totally ruined my hair and scalp. I was a NW2 and now am past a 3. The shock loss made my whole frontal region fall out and had no growth. I signed a document called "mutual agreement to maintain privacy", so I am unsure how far I can describe what happened to me without being sued...any advice? First, how far is the doctor from your home state? The farther away he is, the less likely he is to sue you. Second, the agreement might not even be enforceable. Edited July 3, 2010 by Shadow of the EMpire State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member EpilepticSceptic Posted July 3, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 3, 2010 usedandabused, Just curious, why did you go for a HT as a NW2 ? Did you want to go to NW1 or NW0 ? Also, what is your age and were you diffuse thinning pre-HT ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member EpilepticSceptic Posted July 5, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) i was not diffuse thinning before the procedure, the doctor went into my native hair and put in 1800 grafts. The grafts he did put in my temples never even grew in. the grafts that did grow are unhealthy and contrast with my native hair....disaster Thanks bro for clarifying that! I think I know who your doctor was and that the procedure was likely an FUE "megasession". It is likely that your grafts were damaged during the extraction process, and this is why the ones that did grow have such a poor quality. FUE is very difficult to practice, and only an elite few surgeons can pull it off; and even those surgeons will tell you that you can't do FUE "megasessions" and that FUE is inferior to strip as far as graft survival. Of course I'm sure that your doctor (who shares the same name as a famous fashion designer) did not tell you this. This doctor has done this to many others (Balboa, Chanyouze just to name 2 other posters on HTN) and he is also known to have very aggressive and pushy sales people. He is also known to convince patients they have no rights because of some bogus "agreement" he gets them to sign pre-surgery. He's a money fiend butcher, plain and simple. Years ago on the HLH forum he used to have a great reputation as a strip surgeon; but me and some others back then noticed he was front loading NW0 hairlines on 22 year old kids with 5000+ grafts -- and we WARNED people about him! Now years later the truth has been revealed after so many have been needlessly butchered by him! Sorry to hear about your situation, and I sincerely wish you the best in seeking repair. Edited July 5, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Danielkiwi Posted July 6, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 6, 2010 My doctor was not Armani, it is a different one and it seems that others have had problems with him too in this forum. I did not have an FUE megasession, it was a strip surgery because I didnt shave and needed to conceal the procedure the following week. Hi You have had issues and all of us def. feel sorry for you. However, i am still not sure what are you trying to achieve by just giving hints and no definitive answers. If your goal is to help fellow balding buddies from being butchered, please share your experience in detail including information about the doctor..i know you are concerned about the document you signed but this is an anonymous forum and there is no way in the world the doctor would know it is you...if not, i am not sure if your post is helping people on this forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted July 6, 2010 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 6, 2010 Go back and look at my original post. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member wb280 Posted July 7, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 7, 2010 abused, thats why i feel HT is always a risk. Really cannot blame anyone ( especially the moderators ) as some surgeons really have very good results for a period of time. Sometimes things change and people change, so it is a good example to those sitting on the fence to not just rely on forums alone. Have a good feel of the doctor u intend to lay your head, literally, on the line. Even if he's a recommended doctor, u should not just go blindly into it. Just my opinion View my hair loss website. Surgery done by Doc Pathomvanich from Bangkok http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1730 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member EpilepticSceptic Posted July 7, 2010 Senior Member Share Posted July 7, 2010 abused, thats why i feel HT is always a risk. Really cannot blame anyone ( especially the moderators ) as some surgeons really have very good results for a period of time. Sometimes things change and people change, so it is a good example to those sitting on the fence to not just rely on forums alone. Have a good feel of the doctor u intend to lay your head, literally, on the line. Even if he's a recommended doctor, u should not just go blindly into it. Just my opinion I have an even better suggestion: dissappear from the forums for 5 years, then come back one day to see who has fallen, who is still standing, and who sprouted wings and flew far above the rest. Judge in terms of consistency, inability to find unhappy patients, a quantity of detailed online documentation of successful outcomes, and the ability to meet patients in person without the doc/clinic knowing about it. This is what I did, and it was part of an overall research strategy. If your criteria is like mine, then there just might be 3 docs remaining on your list after you scratched out the rest; and there will be one left that appears to be light years ahead of the other two. Even still, something could go wrong -- it's just the risk you take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member AnybodyKnowsMe Posted July 17, 2010 Regular Member Share Posted July 17, 2010 I think OP's thread has been hijacked. Do the damaged grafts that are not growing die or are they just dormant follicles that are still present but not capable of producing hair? Do the damaged follicles hurt the chances of future grafts being able to survice in this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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