Fut + smp??

[azazelgs]

Hello everyone,

 

I am planning on having a fut operation because I'm not a good FUE candidate but in some consultations they say that I have a great laxity so I'll probably go down with fut road. But for the last 2 years I've been buzzing my head and buzzing with a good hairline wouldn't be a problem for me.

 

So, I'm planning to take my chances with fut , max out my grafts and if I'm not gonna happy with the result , I'll do smp with good look ink. Good Look Ink seems to be the best place to apply this to have a buzzed head not skin head.

 

My question is , has anyone or anyone you know done this? I mean for the last 1-2 years a lot of us talking about SMP but I haven't seen anyone sharing their own experience in HTN. What do you guys think? Is it wise to do fut+ smp?

[scar5]

Azazelgs,

 

Thanks for posting this!! I am looking at SMP, or whatever acronym they call it, for an exit from this life of hair blues, but without a scar I would not be here in the first place so I always try to tell people not to get a strip scar if they are balding, even it their head is made of rubber and they could stretch it over a New York giant pizza.

 

But I respect your decision and you will probably get good growth if you go to the right doc, so much so, the buzz may not even be in the picture for a decade, if ever. Chicks dig hair afterall.

 

As for a strategy, getting strip scar then filling it with ink and hair, well, it might work for you, but I think you shouldn't bank on being able to buzz it right down as low as an FUE. If the ink is a tone that matches, say a 4# then, what are the odds it will hide a scar with your hair twice or half that length? It might for a while, and might not later.

 

i'm still researching these companies. Pretty exciting but frustrating too. The latest Good Look Ink vid I saw is instructive. They show a guy with strip scars in the before shots. The scars are nicely shown, mid- distance, and then close up, for a full ten seconds. Then in the after shot, the scar gets barely two seconds at mid-distance, and that from a head that quickly rotates upwards, taking the scar down and out of screen.

 

It is obviously an imrovment and I think the guy looks decent overall, but it is hardly an endorsement for the approach. Don't get me wrong, I am wishing badly, sometimes desperately that this kind of treatment is a reality for people with strip scars.

 

On the otherhand. How about FUE plus SMP? Out of the question? It is far easier to disguise FUE dots with SMP than a linear line and the uneven planes of skin that meet at the strip in some portions of the arc that characterize many strip jobs.

 

That way, you could keep the buzz IMO. but then of course, you haven't got the long locks that might be great to have.

[azazelgs]

scar5,

 

thank you for the reply! Yes, I have a lot of conflicts about fue vs fut. I showed my pics to Dr.Bisanga and he told me that I'm not a good fue candidate because of my age (26) and my nw level (5a-6 diffuse thinning). On the other hand , I'm really really scared about the fut scar! But I consulted with Joe from H&W and he told me that I have amazing donor laxity and I know he is one of the good guys in this industry and I trust his judgement.

 

If I go with fut road , I'll go with Dr.Hasson or Dr. Rahal. I never thinked about any other doctor and I don't think I will. But as you said, the scar is really scary and I don't want it!! I buzz my head with lowest clipper (you can see my pictures from my other threads), and I don't hate it because I can get the 5 oclock shadow but I want to improve my hairline. Also I am a bit perfectionist so maybe even I get 10k grafts , it won't be enough for me . So SMP is something I really consider.

 

Sometimes I think of only to get SMP but having only a tattoo on your whole head.... I mean what if someone finds out? It's more embarrasing than wearing wig because you can always get rid of it if someone makes fun of! Some days I feel like " I'm gonna live with this messed up head for the rest of my life" but some days I feel like " hey , look at bobman , jotronic ! They changed their life , so I can change it too!!" , I bet you know what I mean. I am very confused about what should I do !

[aaron1234]

I have a scar - two in fact (actually three since my last procedure simply stacked scars) - and I don't scar particularly well. I stretch and none of my scars are pencil thin. However, it's still not a big deal for me because I keep my hair long enough. If you go to Dr. Rahal or H&W, or any elite doc for that matter, then I think the scar you get will be a worthy trade off for the hair you get on top.

[RecedingTide]

After you strip out you could also do some FUE grafts into the scar and then you may even be able to get down to a 2 on the sides and back, a 3 anyway. Most people nowadays can get 8000-9000 over multiple strips (2 or 3) if they go with a top doc. After that you can go for about 300 FUE into the scar and then another 1500 FUE into some problem spots. You might be able to get to 10,000 grafts by combining FUT and FUE.

[scar5]

I don't think you should get FUT now, unless you, as a 5a-6 at 26 years of age, really believe you can get a mega-wow result with strip and grow out your hair long, and be happy with that. Right now, perfectionist you are, you are not in that mind space. Who knows you might be one day.

 

The advice you are getting from people with Dr. Bisanga and Joe is dangerous IMO, even though I respect them both. Here is what I mean.

 

Let's bare in mind,

1) You are happy with buzz

2) 26

3) NW class 5a - 6

 

Route A

Conventional "wisdom" is this,

"You need too many grafts for FUE. You betta get strip"

 

Route B

My idea is this,

"Don't try for the big hair. FUE for hairine and temples. Maybe SMP in between"

 

BUT in the short term, a voice will tell you that all things being equal(say next 5-10 years) assuming you have the funds you will look better with route A

 

1) Straight in front of the mirror

2) On your facebook profile

3) On your resume

And,

!!You will get more girls initially interested in you with ROUTE A

!!You will get a better job, sell more cars, get more votes, get more sympathy in a courthouse with ROUTE A

 

So why route B

Cause I think you are already on your way to accepting not big hair and that your own identity may have manifested itself inside that short haired head.

And in ten years you can buzz it off anyway.

 

 

Dr.Bisanga and he told me that I'm not a good fue candidate because of my age (26) and my nw level (5a-6 diffuse thinning).

Yep, and he'll say that you don't have the available grafts. He has seen overharvesting and he has a strict protocol. But he is also primarily a strip clinic with FUE for 'small jobs' . Ironically, I see those parameters, 5a-6 , 26yrs, as pointing to FUE and away from strip.

 

 

On the other hand , I'm really really scared about the fut scar! But I consulted with Joe from H&W and he told me that I have amazing donor laxity and I know he is one of the good guys in this industry and I trust his judgement.

 

Just because people have amazing laxity is not a reason to get themselves an ear-to-ear smiley scar! You are 26 and 5a!!

I don't want to screw your mind up and I know what you are going through. If Joe can convince you that you can get a lot of grafts, and you are steady on medication, you might be so happy in a years time, you won't look back.

FUE does work, but a lot of the results we see here aren't great IMO. This site and others like it, strongly represent strip. You really have to dig into the FUE-only clinics to get results to compare. Dr. Umar now posts on here, but we have seen very few genuinely all-head FUE results from him. Mostly bodyhair and nape hair augmented results.

 

Sometimes I think of only to get SMP but having only a tattoo on your whole head.... I mean what if someone finds out? It's more embarrasing than wearing wig

It has happened to me!! At work! It is not a memory. It is part of my mental DNA now!! Yes, so, I would be wary of SMP. So far I like HIS but you need to grow hair WITH the ink, and I'm not convinced they are confident about that. There are others and I think we can believe it will get better, but a lot of bad work is yet to created as the industry explodes. Don't let yourself be a bunny!

 

i'm sorry I can't be helpful. I am hemmed in by utter contempt for balding guys giving themselves a strip scar and i draw flak for it. there are so many satisfied strip patients out there, with hair and some can even shrug off a balding crown. I can't.

Edited February 12, 2012 by scar5
change graft numbers, qualifier

[Sean]

Hello everyone,

 

I am planning on having a fut operation because I'm not a good FUE candidate but in some consultations they say that I have a great laxity so I'll probably go down with fut road. But for the last 2 years I've been buzzing my head and buzzing with a good hairline wouldn't be a problem for me.

 

So, I'm planning to take my chances with fut , max out my grafts and if I'm not gonna happy with the result , I'll do smp with good look ink. Good Look Ink seems to be the best place to apply this to have a buzzed head not skin head.

 

My question is , has anyone or anyone you know done this? I mean for the last 1-2 years a lot of us talking about SMP but I haven't seen anyone sharing their own experience in HTN. What do you guys think? Is it wise to do fut+ smp?

 

Azazelgs, how's it goin? I read your post here, http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/164245-now-im-serious-hair-transplant-thinker-pics-included.html

 

I have seen your video and pics. You do have great laxity which is a major plus for FUT. You also look great with a shaved head.

 

But you like to have the options of a buzzed head. One with the lowest clipper and that you are a fan of the short hair cut. Will it look good with FUT with SMP? Not too sure as I haven't really seen anyone have it done that has really showcased it here. My only concern is that if it is done with SMP, will the pigments be concentrated into the FUT scar only or spread around evenly throughout the back. That's because as you age, if you get grey hairs, will it look like a linear scar as a result of the darker pigment concentrated only into the scar or will the pigment change color as time goes on?

 

I haven't really seen many people do FUT and then use micro pigmentation for the FUT scar. I have seen the few pictures they have on Good Look Ink's website regarding transplant scars. They do look like they seem to cover up the scar in the pictures to a degree but does it also depend on the type of scar? The scar still shows but it is reduced. How does it look in different lighting conditions, such as outdoors on a sunny day? Another question is, would getting SMP limit your donor area in anyway for future donor extractions if you need grafts again. Will doctors be able to excise another strip successfully and will you have to get SMP again? Would the SMP pigments cause confusion between grafts when splitting them in the future? Since you also mention you are a diffuse thinner with a NW5-NW6 (both sides of your family also has that hairloss pattern). You may need multiple procedures right? I don't think it would be safe to transplant all the hairs in one go since you seem to have hairs throughout your scalp and the fact that it is diffuse hairloss. Working in between native hairs may be an issue at this point to do a one time session? If you need multiple sessions, then what's gonna happen?

 

I think SMP may be great when spread all over the scalp minimally/evenly, especially in areas that may seem thin, and as a filler to increase the look of density. Like a toppik like effect. I wouldn't mind using it in the future if I have to and once I tapped out my donor if that ever happens. However, I don't know how it will look concentrated in just 1 zone, especially in the donor area/on a scar. Will it look ok in high concentrations in one zone or dispersed all over evenly?

 

I think the key thing for a transplant is to have an amazing hairline and minimal scarring. This, especially, for a person that wants to be able to buzz hair in the future. Work to define the front, tweak it if you have to, once you are completely satisfied in one zone, then slowly move back to the end of the head to the crown.

 

This is a tough call though since you want the option to have a buzzed head yet some doctors told you that your not a good candidate for FUE. However, what if you got FUE and then used SMP as filler once you tapped out the FUE's. If only you knew the amount of donor you have available, how many grafts for maximum FUE extraction. This may be to your advantage too, but you may have an ideal head shape. My head shape is wider/bigger so I think more grafts are needed to be used for coverage. To my advantage my donor area is wider then the front of my head, so it turns out I have over 5,000 grafts still remaining for future FUE use if needed. Would you need that many depending on your head size/width/proportions?

 

I wish I can give you a solid answer but this is a tough call for me. No matter what, I personally wanted flexibility with my scalp and I felt FUE can give it to me. The option of being able to BUZZ was a major factor for me. I am willing to use up all my donor hair, use beard hairs, use smp as a complete combination just so I don't get FUT due to the scar. I don't think FUT is bad as it has it's advantages too for the right candidates. You seem to be a great candidate since you have the laxity, but then the whole short hair wishes you have kind of offset that. But for someone like me who wants flexibility right now, I went for FUE first to see how it goes. If nothing works for me when I am 60 years old then I can buzz my head without the sign of a scar or any other hassle. It's that flexibility I wanted. What if hair cloning comes about before that time? I think it's possible and still have hopes for that as well or what if other hair technology comes through? I mean we have seen the hair industry get better and better in just a matter of years. Better extractions, better everything.

 

This is a tough call for me, but I think if you feel it is the best route for you then go for it. But if you are in doubt, don't do it because you will question it later. Don't rush to anything and carefully analyze everything. Try to meet someone that has had this done and see it in person first. Did you consider FUE first and then strip later to maximize graft extractions? I have heard of few people take that route but it depends on the areas fue is extracted from I think.

 

Wish you lots of luck and I hope you get the best results.

[N-6]

Unless you're committed to or have a strong desire to wear buzz cut, then a 26 year old with Nw 5 or 6, fut all the way. Its a nobrainer. FUE for your level of hairloss will likely lead to harvesting outside of the perm safe zone. I wouldn't pay double the price of fut for less yield than fut and for grafts some of which will fall out anyway because they weren't taken from the safe zone.

[Shampoo]

how does the head tat work when you get older....and say your sides are gray?

 

even if you colored the sides would it look weird for a guy in his 60-70's

to have a head on top of dark dots? I mean with aging skin, wrinkles, ect

is that tat gonna be ok when one is lots older? Or can one change the color later?

[scar5]

I mean with aging skin, wrinkles, ect

is that tat gonna be ok when one is lots older? Or can one change the color later?

 

I've thought a lot about this. when hair is shaved to the skin, the color under the skin is almost always a dull grey, even on a red head! The tatts fading pattern should be quite good as long as there is some white hair scattered about and some texture on the margins to break the transition into "non-hair skin" , I mean the hairline.

 

THe tatts will fade, no doubt, but i see the fade as a good thing especially as grey gets into the picture. The stuff HIS is doing now, is so conservative I doubt very mush it will be an issue. The issue will be that the tatt might disappear pretty much altogether.

 

Even so, laser can remove nasty blemishes.

 

I think the issue at 60 of FUE plus tatt is far better than smiley strip scar plus dead crown, although I accept that many old guys today don't give a damn about their hair. I'm not so sure 20-30 years from now.

[scar5]

Unless you're committed to or have a strong desire to wear buzz cut..... fut all the way. Its a nobrainer. .

 

You don't have to be 'committed' to wear a buzz cut to choose FUE, you can just appreciate having that choice...either now or some time in the future. That's your no-brainer!

[N-6]

In his situation it is absolutely a no brainer unless like I said he wants to keep it buzzed. Apparently his own doc doesn't think he is a good candidate for FUE but you missed that in his first post. Micropigmentation looks like a great option to conceal scar and add appearance of density. Just checked goodlook Inc site and am very impressed.

[scar5]

Thanks for that. Actually, I think u may have missed it, but I went to the trouble of suggesting why Dr Bisanga would suggest strip in this very thread. As for why Joe would suggest strip, well that"s no brainier number two. I often miss details in threads too so I am not going to call you out for missing that. But in general terms it is not difficult to imagine why strip clinics suggest strip or clinics that are set up primarily for strip for bulk, FUE as boutique, suggest strip in his case.

He"s in a situation similar to what I would have been had I not gone for strip at 24 NW4, so I can assure u it is not a "no brainier" as u term it.

[scar5]

and it is quite sweet of my iPhone to autocomplete brainier for brainer!

[trapps99]

I think the SMP is a good idea.....just to camoflauge a bit of the contrast between skin and hair...i have dont it with my scar and it looks alot better...

As for Good Look Ink i have inquired to them and 4000 dollars for 3-4 hours work of tattooing is ludicris..i feel they ake advantage of the lack of competition and overprive their procedure....the world best tattoo artists are charginf 500 and hour and they charge evern more to tattoo dots on your head......

[N-6]

You're essentially guessing that bisanga is incapable of doing a larger fue, you're entitled to your opinion but I'm not sure what basis you have to say that. The risk is very real of harvesting from a nonperm zone in a younger patient with extensive hair loss in an fue. Feel free to do some medical research on the issue. Trapped did u do it scar? If so can u post pics?

[scar5]

Trapps,

Of course the price is ludicrous. So when will the price come down?

With all of us wretched scarred and balding guys, they've got a sellers market.

Maybe we could start our own company?

 

N-6

Yep I'm guessing Dr. Bisanga is not keen on doing a mega-session FUE and I am sure he is capable of proving me wrong! As for FUE outside zone of safety, most definitely a possibility. And the ramifications are that this guy would lose a portion of the transplanted hair if the meds give up on him. And then he would have less hair, and he would have NO strip scar. My guess, at that stage he might lean towards a buzz, knowing he could pull it off Just say his crown gives up at 38-40? And he has a strip scar and no donor? Then he will be like me, God help him!

[Al - Moderator]

A strip scar, NW 7, no donor left, unable to cover the scar with existing hair. I have that and it's not something you want, believe me.

[Shampoo]

I am not familiar with the tats. I know some guys get it if they are going

to wear a buzz cut. And from the pics I've seen it looks pretty good.

 

But are there many guys that after a hair transplant wearing medium length hair style

that also get the tats and use the tats in conjunction with a regular FUT hair transplant

just to give a more dense look by way of reducing the skin to hair contrast?

[N-6]

You're right Nw 7, no donor and cant cover scar isn't a good situation. Would you care to share more details about your situation? How many procedures did youhave? How many grafts? How long ago? Meds? Where exactly was your strip taken from? Scar 5, that's exactly I would choose fut, because for someone at that level of loss, strip grafted hair has a better chance of being perm since its taken from traditional perm safe zone. I wouldn't pay double price for fue for hair which could fall out anyway so I could avoid a scar.

[scar5]

I wouldn't pay double price for fue for hair which could fall out anyway so I could avoid a scar.

 

 

Forget about price. Even though FUE is not double FUT anyway. Even so, what I would have saved in money if I had done all FUE from the beginning, I couldn't tell you. I wouldn't be here anyway!

 

But the thing is, you assume that hair WILL be outside and that hair WILL fall out despite meds. That means a bad FUE. It doesn't mean FUE is bad. Common mistake people make is when seeing bad FUE, they blame the procedure and on the other hand when they see a bad strip, they blame the surgeon.

 

I think a lower density approach is the best long term plan for a NW5 at 26, using FUE and perhaps micropigmentation later, but in the short term, strip gives the big bang result. In the end, the FUE may be cheaper.

[N-6]

Where is he going to get grafts via fue for his extensive hairloss? This will necessarily be taken from the fringes of the perm zone and beyond. Remember that Fue isn't as efficient as harvesting grafts as strip therefore you are able to get more grafts per sq cm via strip than fue. So with fue he can go conservative route and not get adequate coverage or go mega session fue, risk outside safe zone grafts and possibly have them fall out anyway. I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on a procedure that may partially fail in the long run. Meds are not foolproof at all and their effectiveness eventually wears off. Recall that Fue hasn't been around very long so we don't know how all these mega session fuepatients will look long term. I really think its an overhyped procedure but it does have its place. I just think this patient is way better off with strip.

[BaldWhisky]

The disadvantage of strip is the scar. No doubt about that.

The disadvantage of Fue is less available donor and lower survival rate, even with a top doctor.

If you are a NW5 at age 26 there really should be no doubt that Strip is the way to go.

In my opinion Bisanga is the best FUE doctor in Europe and one of the absolute best in the world. Also after talking with him he does not seem biased at all on FUE, Strip or a combination for a mega session. I don’t know what Scar5 base his view on but I tend to disagree on that point.

If it’s very important to shave down maybe doing a HT isn’t the way to go at all as that in itself isn’t own isn’t good enough argument for a FUE over Strip for a 26 year old NW5!

[scar5]

 

If you are a NW5 at age 26 there really should be no doubt that Strip is the way to go.

 

I don’t know what Scar5 base his view on but I tend to disagree on that point.

 

If it’s very important to shave down maybe doing a HT isn’t the way to go!

 

Hey Whiskey,

 

We think in different ways! Did you read my post early in the thread? No? - that's cool, but let me try to justify my way of thinking to you and tell me if you are impressed or not!

 

Question : Why FUE at for 26 NW5?

..and sub -questions,

a) Why would a guy want to shave down AND get an HT?

b) What does Scar5 base his view on?

 

General answer

A 26 NW5 is not in a great space in the grand scheme of things. It's not like NW7 at 22, granted, but it 'aint too good. But this guy has already adjusted to balding to some extent. He is happy enough buzzing already!

 

That said, getting on drugs, staying on drugs for the next 20 years, no side effects or diminished effect, a solid strip result, say three procedures which net 10,000 grafts over a five year period would bring happiness and volume of hair that would be the envy of most of us, right?

 

Yes, I agree.

 

So what is the problem?

 

a) Short term - Post-procedure, three times, explain or hide.

b) Risk of crown thinning later. Dilemma and strip scar

 

In the short term, three strip procedures means shaving down your head, and growing over the scar three times and being in the doldrums for three months each time. Each and everyday post-op during those months, you will be tentative. Should I explain? Or shouldn't I explain. Should I hide. Shouldn't I hide. It takes a toll on you. MIcropigmentation could also produce this and I dread to think. But it does at least fade. The strip scar can come back to haunt you later too unless you thoroughly accept that you will never go short.

 

Being able to cut down short at regular intervals as your balding Gods play out their cards on you over the years is a Godsend, I believe. It allows you to see yourself and act in a different way. Buzzed heads don't look great on white guys, true, but they do give you a sense of something that is strong you can identify with. Knowing you can't go there, as you contemplate the future with a shakey crown is not a good feeling.

 

I'm not impressed with many FUE results here and I am very impressed with the strip results. But when I look elsewhere I do see some good FUE results. I think a slow and steady FUE approach is worth considering, but the bottom line maybe the guy is so happy with having insta-hair that strip delivers, he will never cut his hair.

 

I was happiest after my third strip. I had awesome hair and I grew it all out long. THe hairline was a bit strong and the temples weren't great, but never had a problem. In the mid -90s, two things happened. Buzz cuts became cool and I started to lose my NW 4-5 zones, behind the transplant. The crown opened a fraction. I wanted out and I have spent the next 15 years in a bad space, never being able to really pull off a buzz because of scars, or satisfied growing it longer, because the top down view looks wispy. Front on, it still looks good, if I grow it.

So I want FUE to be the norm in HT land, although I don't promote or endorse any of the docs doing it.

 

The way the procedures are marketed is bad, regardless. The way the information is disseminated on forums and websites, bad too. Hair is great, no matter what the chicks say they 'think' or 'don't think' about it. But if it is going, a buzz is the best choice IMO, although the slicked back oily NW5 with Old Spice aftershave and a Hawaiian shirt is definitely cool in a chic-retro kinda way.

 

A strip means, no buzz, that's all. And so a balding guy shouldn't compound his issues by getting a scar, that's all. But I know there are so many happy people out there who will stay happy with a good strip. I can't deny that.

[azazelgs]

Wow, I'm gone for 2 weeks and my thread got popular!!

 

 

First, thank you everyone for your answers/thoughts, I really appreciate all of them. Now to clarify my thoughts ;

 

Yes, I'm in a way get used to the buzz cut/bald look BUT I only get used to it because I can get the 5 o'clock shadow somehow and I really hate my sides. The buzz cut hides it quite well , that's why I like it. I leave my sides 1-2 clipper longer , but sometimes it looks really silly. Some people notice it and say "you forgot to shave your sides". I didn't!!! After 2-3 days , it does look at the same length and after one week-10 days , it looks like I have just peach fuzz at the sides and thinning hair on top. That's why I buzz it to lowest clipper.

 

 

My greatest example for this type of case is Josep Guardiola, the head coach of Fc Barcelona. When he shaves his head , it looks like he has a full head of hair but after 1-2 weeks , his baldness is pretty obvious.

 

 

When shaved ;

 

 

 

 

Not shaved;

 

 

 

 

My case is pretty much similar; When I shave, I does look like I have a hair but when it gets longer, I look like I'm 40. The thing is I don't know what I'm gonna do when I end up completely bald.

 

In my opinion, the most obvious thing that seperates me from other hair loss sufferers on this site is , I can shave my head! That's why I don't want to lose this option. What many of you say "good result , complete change, 20 years younger" are generally "not good enough , never gonna wear my hair like this , why grow this thin hair" for me.

 

 

I'm not saying those to be offensive, at the end of the day, I completely believe that the best result is the one that makes the person feels about themselves the best. I want a ht because I want to feel myself better. I think I'll feel better when I have a result like London_Lad or Bobman or Can't decide and on the other hand I'll feel my self better if I have a shaved head with a decent 5 o'clock shadow for the rest of my life.

 

 

edit: Photos ;