Attention gho is legit

[joeblow]

Thanks for the feedback gc83uk.

 

Whens your next appointment?

[FinHairLoss]

Hi Guys,

 

I went to see Dr Gho today, I was as nervous as I've ever been on the way to the place. Got there at 9.30am London. Met Dr Gho for the first time, (had already seen my photos, which were really detailed.)

 

My hair loss is quite extensive, I have my crown and most of my front hair line, but approx a 5 inch diameter of completely bare scalp on the top of my head (so that should give you an idea). My donor hair is 'ok', but not amazing. Had this since about 8 years old and have been wearing a hair piece for too long, not cool I know.

 

He explained he would be doing the HSI (injection type) and agreed to do 600-700 today with another 3 trips planned in the future. This is what I actually wanted, I didn't want to spend mega without first knowing how well it will work and I'd rather take my time with it.

 

Anyway, after about about 30 mins of chatting I was introduced to two 'technicians' as he called them, both very nice (everyone is Dutch by the way, but speak good English). The first thing they did was analyse the donor hair and how they could shave it with allowing the rest of my hair to cover up the shaved areas. They shaved about 1 inch from ear to ear, possibly less than 1 inch, I'll know more tomorrow once I've had a proper look.

 

The 1st technician was a nice chap who extracted the hair from the back and sides of the head, this took about an hour to an hour and a half I'd say. The only slightly painfull bit is the anaesthetic, but no big deal. Then had lunch...

 

About 12.30 (after lunch), the other technician, nice woman, started placing the hairs into the top of my scalp. Dr Gho briefly interrupted to place a few of these near my hair line, because they are 'more difficult' in the words of technician 2.

Half way through the 700 hairs being inserted into my scalp, the bloke took over again (tech 1) and finished the procedure. We were finished at about 3.30ish. Dr Gho, said everything went perfectly and said that the donor area is healing really nicely already, he also asked if he can use these photos before and after, which I have no problem with.

 

I have to be honest I'm by no means an expert in hair transplants, I still don't quite understand the difference between HST and HSI, but I'll be talking to him again next week, as he wants me to keep him updated, so I'll get it clarified again, I was quite nervous so forgot to ask some vital questions.

 

Anyway I'm home now, a little sore at the back of my head, to be expected. The donor area seems to be nicely covered by the rest of the hair. The implanted hairs all have little tiny scabs on them. I have to admit I'm quite excited now it's done, fingers crossed this works and the donor regrows too.

 

I've only just joined this site a couple of weeks back, so shall I just add the photos to my profile or do I insert them here? I'll try and get something sorted tomorrow anyway. Let me know if I've missed anything...

 

 

ya thanks for keeping us updated

 

 

Im confused tho... i would have thought it obvious the differnce between HST and HSI

 

HSI is suppose to be an injection of the follicle and should differ greating from HST where they punch a hole and implant a follicle much like FUE.... however maybe the punch holes for the injection too?

 

I think you can post pics in your blog/profile I'm not sure

 

 

 

please any more details or updates would again be appreciated.. good luck

[Blake Bloxham]

ya thanks for keeping us updated

 

 

Im confused tho... i would have thought it obvious the differnce between HST and HSI

 

HSI is suppose to be an injection of the follicle and should differ greating from HST where they punch a hole and implant a follicle much like FUE.... however maybe the punch holes for the injection too?

 

I think you can post pics in your blog/profile I'm not sure

 

 

 

please any more details or updates would again be appreciated.. good luck

 

I'm confused as well. This procedure sounds more like the stem cell transplantation (which seems to follow a follicular unit extraction format with a modified extracting process) opposed to any sort of "stem cell injection"

 

GC, is it possible that you could have undergone the stem cell transplantation, not injection, procedure? If not, I'm confused as to how this is an injectable-based procedure.

[gc83uk]

Not sure if I'm allowed to post links in here, but I've explained it here earlier today also:

 

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-92645-page-0-order-last_answer-descasc-DESC-category-17.html with photos. If I'm not allowed the link I'll scrape the content instead

 

To answer your question, some people have queried the same about whether I've had HST and not HSI. I was initially under the impression that the injection was just stem cells. I didn't think it would include a hair or part of a hair or whatever you want to call it.

 

From what I've seen, since read from others and the hasci website again and of course what Gho has told me, I've had the HSI, I don't think he has any reason to lie or dupe me, unless anything can think otherwise.

 

To summarise I think the main difference is just the way they are implanted, meaning they are inserted directly without first making a hole and then inserting the hair, does that sound plausible?

 

Thanks,

 

Gaz

[Blake Bloxham]

Not sure if I'm allowed to post links in here, but I've explained it here earlier today also:

 

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-92645-page-0-order-last_answer-descasc-DESC-category-17.html with photos. If I'm not allowed the link I'll scrape the content instead

 

To answer your question, some people have queried the same about whether I've had HST and not HSI. I was initially under the impression that the injection was just stem cells. I didn't think it would include a hair or part of a hair or whatever you want to call it.

 

From what I've seen, since read from others and the hasci website again and of course what Gho has told me, I've had the HSI, I don't think he has any reason to lie or dupe me, unless anything can think otherwise.

 

To summarise I think the main difference is just the way they are implanted, meaning they are inserted directly without first making a hole and then inserting the hair, does that sound plausible?

 

Thanks,

 

Gaz

 

GC,

 

I think the "difference" you've described makes sense: in the transplantation procedure, actual slit incisions are made for the extracted "stem cell grafts;" in the injection procedure, the grafts are extracted and implanted without an incision in the scalp. Interesting.

 

Also, I'll leave the link for the time being, but I would like to ask you to make your own hair loss Q & A blog and update your social profile with the images and explanation shared on the other site. That way, your very interesting case will be accessible to curious community members at all times.

 

Finally, and I apologize if this question is a bit personal, but have you ever seen a dermatologist about your hair loss? Frankly (and keep in mind that our site does NOT offer any sort of medical opinion), your hair loss pattern seems to mimic alopecia areata in some ways, and having your balding thoroughly evaluated is always a wise decision.

[gc83uk]

Yes I've seen numerous dermatologists. I know it looks like areata, but I was about 8 my head started itching like hell. It began as like a type of Psorias, flakely, sore, itchy and hair clumps falling out when brushing the hair. The conclusion back then was Scarring Alopecia (at the end result) after all the psorias had gone and itching and redness.

 

The only way we could treat it was to use special creams, I can't remember which, that was down to my mum back then, who was far more worried than I was at 8. It's only when you get to about 11 you realise that I'm not looking normal compared to the other kids.

 

More recently I had a biopsy. The results suggested that there was no inflammation present, but the clinical diagnosis would have been probable Linchen Planopilaris, some other possible diagnoses were also made, of course they can't be completely sure.

 

Anyway there is no chance of my original hair growing back, I'm 28 now, so it's been 20 years of no regrowth. I'm fairly sure with Areata it grows back quite often if not always in the end.

[azazelgs]

Right now I'm watching the champions league game bw trabzonspor-inter and I constantly look for Wesley Sneijder. His ht seems really good but I think he will be a great case study for young ones who has advanced hairloss because he is nw6 diffuse thinner. Hope to see his crown and middle work.

[FinHairLoss]

Right now I'm watching the champions league game bw trabzonspor-inter and I constantly look for Wesley Sneijder. His ht seems really good but I think he will be a great case study for young ones who has advanced hairloss because he is nw6 diffuse thinner. Hope to see his crown and middle work.

 

 

I've heard someone say before: if gho is trying to scam people... why wouldn't he lay low? why would he go out of his way to perform high profile HT if his technique is not what he says it is? Seems like, if it were a scam, the fast track to being caught would be performing these high profile transplants... as oppose to just taking advantage of joe shmos and calling it day

 

 

anecdotal evidence, but still a question that should be asked

[mahhong]

I don't think it's necessarily a case of Gho being a scam artist or not. I for one don't know enough about him to make any sort of judgement, but even giving him the benefit of the doubt as someone who truly believes he has a workable, advanced hair restoration treatment, only time and repeat results can truly give him a seal of excellence.

 

I follow the general rule that if something is successful then it won't take long for it to catch on like wildfire. In the medical community there is often a lot of conspiratorial talk about treatments being kept "hidden" or doctors with miracle cures being suppressed and maligned, but it very rarely works out to be the case. Usually, those that find a better way of doing things will quickly be adopted into the mainstream, and those techniques become the standard of work for the future. It's like these people who put up websites saying "no need for propecia - here is a natural miracle cure!". They post up dozens of finely tuned concoctions full of herbs and natural substances claiming miracles can happen - and perhaps miracles really did happen for them. But the truth outs itself as the general public just doesn't have the success that individual claims to have had.

 

If Gho's technique is legitimate, which I answer for one way or another, it won't be long until it takes off. Sneijder's work does look impressive BUT he's only had it done relatively recently, and it's nothing that couldn't have been achieved via FUE with a competent doctor. That doesn't mean it's not legitimate, but these are facts.

 

The simple truth is whilst I've seen some nice work from Gho, and read a lot of interesting stuff about his technique, I've yet to see one single case that has truly blown me away - that has truly proven he's managed to make the issue of limited donor much less of a problem. Nobody has been able to point me to a case that has truly demonstrated how Gho is far and ahead of his peers. Everything I've seen has been the same 4-7000 grafts sort of work coming from many other leading doctors. Perhaps the technique is different and these guys have donor hair in spades left - but why aren't they queuing up to get another 7000 grafts put in? And then another 7000!

 

If I went to Gho and he gave me 5000 grafts and I only lost 10 or 20% of my donor, I'd be scrambling back to him to get another 5000, and I'd be doing that until I had the sort of hair I could only dream about using previous techniques. Nobody seems to have done that - yet we're all on these forums screaming out for the opportunity every single day.

 

Maybe in 2 or 3 years time we'll see increasing progress from Gho and increasing proof that his technique works and represents real progress in what we can achieve - but the results have to be there first. Gho might be legitimate, but I've not seen a case from him yet that makes me consider him over H+W, Feller or a dozen other leading surgeons. Now, if he posts up a guy that's had 17,000 grafts over 5 years in the next few months or years - and the work looks clean - I'd have to start considering. But even then, I'd want to see more than an isolated case. I'd want to see a whole page full of people who'd had more grafts anybody else can give them and still have donor left over before I consider Gho - and I think most pragmatic people would want the same.

 

I really hope Gho is as good as he seems because that would be great. But it's only ever going to be results and lots of them that can prove that. All these articles and peer retractions and things might help turn some heads, but they don't equal proof of concept. We just, as usual, have to wait it out and see if the results back up the claims in the future.

[azazelgs]

Maybe in 2 or 3 years time we'll see increasing progress from Gho and increasing proof that his technique works and represents real progress in what we can achieve - but the results have to be there first. Gho might be legitimate, but I've not seen a case from him yet that makes me consider him over H+W, Feller or a dozen other leading surgeons. Now, if he posts up a guy that's had 17,000 grafts over 5 years in the next few months or years - and the work looks clean - I'd have to start considering. But even then, I'd want to see more than an isolated case. I'd want to see a whole page full of people who'd had more grafts anybody else can give them and still have donor left over before I consider Gho - and I think most pragmatic people would want the same.

 

 

That is excatly what I think about Dr.Gho. For me , the whole claims and scientific facts that he published may be true, but he won't catch this sceptic audience unless he does great restorations with higher nw levels. Because if he doesn't , there is no difference bewteen him and "big players" like H&W or Rahal, also they are one step ahead because they can really make the difference.

[FinHairLoss]

Maybe in 2 or 3 years time we'll see increasing progress from Gho and increasing proof that his technique works and represents real progress in what we can achieve - but the results have to be there first. Gho might be legitimate, but I've not seen a case from him yet that makes me consider him over H+W, Feller or a dozen other leading surgeons. Now, if he posts up a guy that's had 17,000 grafts over 5 years in the next few months or years - and the work looks clean - I'd have to start considering. But even then, I'd want to see more than an isolated case. I'd want to see a whole page full of people who'd had more grafts anybody else can give them and still have donor left over before I consider Gho - and I think most pragmatic people would want the same.

 

 

That is excatly what I think about Dr.Gho. For me , the whole claims and scientific facts that he published may be true, but he won't catch this sceptic audience unless he does great restorations with higher nw levels. Because if he doesn't , there is no difference bewteen him and "big players" like H&W or Rahal, also they are one step ahead because they can really make the difference.

 

 

he hasn't done sessions big enough for anyone to have gotten 17,000 yet

 

 

small sessions keep swelling down which increases yield in the recipient and helps donor regeneration

[azazelgs]

Fin,

 

Believe me, I was much more excited than you when I first learn about Gho I also believe that FUT is not a perfect cosmetic procedure, in my opinion it's something flawed because you need another procedure to cover your scar. And I also don't want to loose my option to buzz my head real short, which I'm doing for 2 years now.

 

But, FUT with a A class surgeon is the gold standart still. Top doctors like H-W , Rahal are doing someting what I can call life changing for guys with advanced hair loss. And I think everyone saw them, not read it on a scientific article or heard in some medical annual meeting, SAW them. I think there is a huge gap in what Gho claims (nearly unlimited donor and no scar) and what he offers (see his results on his webpage). Again , believe me I'm the most entousiastic member in the forum wanting that the Gho is the "real deal". But I need to see someone with higher nw levels and with higher grafts that he fully restored.I and many members here saw rahal, hasson , wong patients that are fully restored but not with gho.

[mahhong]

he hasn't done sessions big enough for anyone to have gotten 17,000 yet

 

 

small sessions keep swelling down which increases yield in the recipient and helps donor regeneration

 

I mean't more 17,000 (as an example) over several or more sessions.

 

The only way Gho's technique is really of any use to the hairloss community is if it can offer the patient a greater number of grafts without compromising the donor yield. If all his patients are only going in for one or two sessions of 2-4,000 grafts, then he's really no different from the other leading hairloss surgeons out there, except that his reputation is not as established.

 

As I say, for me it's black and white. If Gho can get more hair with less donor being used up, then I'm sure there will be a queue of people lining up at his door to get as many procedures as possible under their belt and as many grafts as they can. It's when I see these sorts of patients and, importantly, their results, that I will really start getting interested in Gho. Until that point all the talk and hearsay in the world won't mean anything.

[azazelgs]

I mean't more 17,000 (as an example) over several or more sessions.

 

The only way Gho's technique is really of any use to the hairloss community is if it can offer the patient a greater number of grafts without compromising the donor yield. If all his patients are only going in for one or two sessions of 2-4,000 grafts, then he's really no different from the other leading hairloss surgeons out there, except that his reputation is not as established.

 

As I say, for me it's black and white. If Gho can get more hair with less donor being used up, then I'm sure there will be a queue of people lining up at his door to get as many procedures as possible under their belt and as many grafts as they can. It's when I see these sorts of patients and, importantly, their results, that I will really start getting interested in Gho. Until that point all the talk and hearsay in the world won't mean anything.

 

Manhong,

Everytime I open that thread you say what I exactly wanted to say:)

[joeblow]

i found this youtube video, which I think shows one of the specialists performing a stemcell transplant at the same institute?

 

What do you guys think?

 

By the looks of the description it was done in january this year... I'd like to know more details... anyone here speak dutch?

 

[Reece]

I just want to be sure that I am clear on a few things here. It may have been posted in this thread or another already but, it seems that this one is popular and it may receive a quicker response. A few questions/clarifications please.

 

1. From what I understand, this is essentially an FUE procedure BUT instead of removing the entire graft only part of it is removed and transplanted. This is how the doctor is able to preserve the donor area as the entire follicle isn't removed?

 

2. Follow up to question 1, is an entire follicle from the donor area required to produce a new follicle in the recipient area? Can half a follicle have the same result as a full?

 

3. Cost, is this on par with FUE procedures?

 

I am not trying to take sides as I have followed the thread and see some cleverly worded contention between the believers and non-believers, but I am skeptically excited about the prospects.

 

On one hand this is a newer procedure from a surgeon who I have heard little about, with little to go off of but a couple of results. On the other hand, if the issue of limited donor supply has potentially been resolved than this brings hope to the more advanced NW cases. Sure the proven procedures have been refined and proven to have excellent results but there is always that donor supply issue.

 

I would like to see some more surgeons use this procedure as well as more results before I would consider going under the needle. Caveat Emptor

[azazelgs]

On one hand this is a newer procedure from a surgeon who I have heard little about, with little to go off of but a couple of results. On the other hand, if the issue of limited donor supply has potentially been resolved than this brings hope to the more advanced NW cases. Sure the proven procedures have been refined and proven to have excellent results but there is always that donor supply issue.

 

 

This is excatly why I'm still sceptic about this Gho. If he claims a "nearly" unlimited donor supply, he should work with some large nw6-7 cases. If the results are good and he can show what he claims(use 10k head grafts and minimal donor loss and minimal scarring) I'll be first one to book.

[FinHairLoss]

This is excatly why I'm still sceptic about this Gho. If he claims a "nearly" unlimited donor supply, he should work with some large nw6-7 cases. If the results are good and he can show what he claims(use 10k head grafts and minimal donor loss and minimal scarring) I'll be first one to book.

 

 

an extremely bald german singer, dean saunders, just underwent HST... he is at least an nw6..... i'm not sure how this first one will look... it was somewhere around 1700 grafts

 

 

i'll tell you right now it doesnt look promising.. it looks like 1700 grafts on a nw6... its going to be a long time before we can get the results we all want.... multiple procedures takes awhile

Edited September 29, 2011 by FinHairLoss

[FinHairLoss]

I just want to be sure that I am clear on a few things here. It may have been posted in this thread or another already but, it seems that this one is popular and it may receive a quicker response. A few questions/clarifications please.

 

1. From what I understand, this is essentially an FUE procedure BUT instead of removing the entire graft only part of it is removed and transplanted. This is how the doctor is able to preserve the donor area as the entire follicle isn't removed?

 

2. Follow up to question 1, is an entire follicle from the donor area required to produce a new follicle in the recipient area? Can half a follicle have the same result as a full?

 

3. Cost, is this on par with FUE procedures?

 

 

r

 

1. yes this is correct

 

2. follicles come in follicular units of 1,2,3,4 (maybe 2,3,4?) . Gho is transecting this follicular unit. Gho isn't after the follicles per say. under and around the bottom of each follicle (or follicular unit?) are the cells that reproduce the hair. These cells are left behind when you pluck a hair from your head. They are why that hair grows back. They are also why ANY hair grows anywhere in any type of hair transplant. All surgeons are transplanting these cells... however some transplant the cells with more tissue (FUT, FUE, ETC.) while another doctor (yes just one) transplants the cells with less tissue (HST). However any procedure revolves around removing the cells and planting them for regrowth in the recipient... Gho has found a way to leave enough cells behind to regrow there in the donor and also the recipient...

 

I'm not exactly sure if he transects a 4 follicle unit, plants in the recipient and gets a yield of two hairs there... while the donor graft regenerates to the original 4 follicle unit.. or if he splits the 4 follicle unit and two grow in the donor while two grow in the recipient...

 

Some other forums have pretty good explanations if you want to PM me I can send a link. You should look at the the hasci website. they have a ton of info on it.

 

 

3. its more expensive than FUE... cant say what 2300 FUE goes for but 2300 HST goes for 13k usd

Edited September 29, 2011 by FinHairLoss

[FinHairLoss]

i found this youtube video, which I think shows one of the specialists performing a stemcell transplant at the same institute?

 

What do you guys think?

 

By the looks of the description it was done in january this year... I'd like to know more details... anyone here speak dutch?

 

 

hasci put out maybe 20 of these videos

 

all this stuff can be found on their website, most of the answers to questions being asked on this forum can be found there too

[azazelgs]

an extremely bald german singer, dean saunders, just underwent HST... he is at least an nw6..... i'm not sure how this first one will look... it was somewhere around 1700 grafts

 

 

i'll tell you right now it doesnt look promising.. it looks like 1700 grafts on a nw6... its going to be a long time before we can get the results we all want.... multiple procedures takes awhile

 

 

Thanks Fin, since you have done a lot to contribute to this issue and give some very good info about Gho for the ones that are highly interested(like me:)).

 

I think this Dean Saunders will be our Ginea pig:) Seriously, all I was saying about gho was that he never worked on a full blown nw6 before. Now he does , and since this guy is a celeb , we'll see the best results and what can this technique achieve. If I saw him getting like 8k or more graft and have a full restoration , wait for me gho!

[mahhong]

Thanks Fin, since you have done a lot to contribute to this issue and give some very good info about Gho for the ones that are highly interested(like me:)).

 

I think this Dean Saunders will be our Ginea pig:) Seriously, all I was saying about gho was that he never worked on a full blown nw6 before. Now he does , and since this guy is a celeb , we'll see the best results and what can this technique achieve. If I saw him getting like 8k or more graft and have a full restoration , wait for me gho!

 

Exactly!

 

I really would love nothing more than Gho to be legitimate. I just don't buy all this "he's too busy/he doesn't do large cases/nobody has had multiple procedures" etc. If the process is a working process there should be at least someone with the money, time and dedication to have gone to Gho multiple times for 6000+ grafts. And if Gho was able to make even one patient a NW6/7 into a bona fide non-bald, good density case, my instinct would be he'd jump at the chance. He didn't invest this sort of time and money into a procedure to do 1500 graft surgeries for the rest of his days. If Gho can make the donor hair limitation a thing of the past, he'd be begging for someone to come through his door wanting 8 or 10 or 12,000 grafts.

 

I agree that it would take time to see larger cases emerge, so there is still hope. But until they do emerge I would advise anybody to stay away and watch cautiously. I know that sounds a little dismissive, but you owe it to yourself to assume Gho is doing nothing more significant than decent FUE until you've seen a whole bunch of brilliant, larger cases on severely bald people. This Dean Saunders could be one of those higher profile cases, but he's still going to need multiple, successful surgeries if he's going to be considered a benchmark for this new procedure.

[azazelgs]

Exactly!

 

I really would love nothing more than Gho to be legitimate. I just don't buy all this "he's too busy/he doesn't do large cases/nobody has had multiple procedures" etc. If the process is a working process there should be at least someone with the money, time and dedication to have gone to Gho multiple times for 6000+ grafts. And if Gho was able to make even one patient a NW6/7 into a bona fide non-bald, good density case, my instinct would be he'd jump at the chance. He didn't invest this sort of time and money into a procedure to do 1500 graft surgeries for the rest of his days. If Gho can make the donor hair limitation a thing of the past, he'd be begging for someone to come through his door wanting 8 or 10 or 12,000 grafts.

 

I agree that it would take time to see larger cases emerge, so there is still hope. But until they do emerge I would advise anybody to stay away and watch cautiously. I know that sounds a little dismissive, but you owe it to yourself to assume Gho is doing nothing more significant than decent FUE until you've seen a whole bunch of brilliant, larger cases on severely bald people. This Dean Saunders could be one of those higher profile cases, but he's still going to need multiple, successful surgeries if he's going to be considered a benchmark for this new procedure.

 

Mahhong ,I think if this Gho turns out the way we hope we should go together since you say/think exactly like me:)

[FinHairLoss]

Mahhong ,I think if this Gho turns out the way we hope we should go together since you say/think exactly like me:)

 

 

 

hmm.... weird

[Montreal]

cutting the head for a HT should be band