About H&W

[azazelgs]

First of all, this is not a post to make some bad accusations or insults, I do believe in their work , I think they are still the worlds best but I feel like it needs to be discussed in this forum , where everything is clear , solid and not fake. Also , I think it is obvious that something going wrong there.

 

For all of the years, all of us see "jotronic", "bobman", "nicnitro" and many other that had marvellous results. But nowadays we mostly see "TheEmperor" , "Amanindia" and "Drew35" who are clearly not satisfied with their work.(And I really believe they are below average results) Is there something wrong or changed?

 

All of these years some people are sceptical about the megasessions and nowadays these sceptical people population increasing. Is there some complication/staff change etc..???

 

Again and again, this is not an attacking thread. I talked with Joe several times via mail , and I really believe in his words, from many point of views he and H&W seem they are really stand up in their work. But for the last 2-3 months , I think that something is clearly going wrong. What do you guys think?

[hairthere]

There is a commonality among the dissatisfied patients you are seeing: they are all very high on the norwood scale. In the Emperor's thread Bill posted some very useful information about graft count--you should go read it.

[corvettester]

The same thing has recently crossed my mind as well. I believe that there is a term for it, but I forget exactly. I think it’s something like “popularity bias.”

 

Basically, it’s the idea that the more you are in the public eye and the more positive publicity you generate, the more criticism and negative publicity you will generate by default. You can’t have one without the other.

 

Thus, the public will hold you to higher, unrealistic standards—kind of like with religious and political leaders, as well as other public figures. For celebrities like Charlie Sheen and Lindsay Lohan, this can work to their advantage. For celebrities like Bill Clinton, Elliot Spitzer and Anthony Weiner, this can destroy their career and reputation. I think HT docs fall in the later category.

 

I don’t think any other clinic maintains a public presence equal in magnitude to H&W—they’re virtually a household name! Kudos to them for so successfully branding themselves… no doubt, they’ve earned it. The clinic with the most business usually has the most accolades, but also the sharpest critics.

 

Especially on the HTN, no clinic comes close to posting as many results as H&W. Therefore, it's only natural that you will find more dissatisfied patients, simply because there are more patients! I bet that statistically, H&W have the same amount of complaints as everyone else, if not lower. But you would never know judging from the discussion forums.

 

In addition, another factor that I imagine is that H&W draws a lot of their business from the online community. I mean, they're located way out in Bum-fuk-Egypt, so they have to do a lot of outreach via advertising and maintaining a huge online presence. For this reason, their patients are more likely to be computer/internet savvy individuals with their own online presence. Not to mention, their secret weapon: the beloved Italian translator, Lorenzo— Countach!!!

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with Joetronic’s presence on the threads. I find him to be very helpful and genuine, among other qualities. He’s not the type to highjack threads to promote his clinic like certain other clinic reps do. He always stays on topic and contributes instead of just plugging H&W.

 

Also, Joetronic doesn’t engage in shameless self-promotion like I often witness other doctor reps doing for their doctor or products. Sometimes all the self-promotion of certain doctor reps gets to be a little too much for me personally, and I wish the moderators would step in and put an end to it. The HTN is supposed to by created by and for patients, after all.

 

What’s more, I never see Joetronic pointlessly (or rather shamelessly) bumping pro-H&W threads like I do with other doctor reps trying to promote their doctor or products. This is something I see all the time by certain doctor reps and it’s so painfully obvious! Yuck!

 

So I think it’s best to view H&W detractors with some perspective. I am by no means attempting to discount their credibility, as I firmly believe that no doctor is beyond reproach. However, we have to remember that, due to sheer volume, H&W’s 1% of dissatisfied patients will always be the majority of cases on the HTN among the elite clinics, as will their successes. This is why cases such as The Emperor, AmanIndia or Drew 35 generate such a huge controversies: the public see H&W in unrealistic terms and hold them to impossible standards.

 

Truth be told, I wish more clinics were as dedicated to posting their results as H&W is. You will never hear me complaining that a clinic is showcasing too much of their work! Kudos to Joetornic and H&W for leading the industry in this respect as well— Countach!

 

 

Corvettester

Edited June 19, 2011 by corvettester

[bonkerstonker]

I also have to stand up for jotronic he's been taking a few digs lately from unhappy patients but it offends my inteligence to hear personal negative attacks towards him. I've known and spoke to joe for over ten years right from when i was a wounded young lad suffering with hairloss. From the very first time i spoke to him he helped me with advice and has always been completely honest with me, he has never pushed me to hw and i've never felt like he was a sales rep he's been more like a friend who cared about my future, i have also watched him help others for many years and for me he is without doubt 100% a good honest guy that i can trust completly!

 

Like corvet said it's simply the fact that hw have produced such a huge amount of amazing hts over the years so everyone who goes there thinks they will get a wow result even if they have huge loss. At the end of the day they're not miracle workers they can only use what you bring to the table if you don't have much existing hair on top or you're donor hair is fine you're not gonna be able to style your hair like tom cruise one day then britney spears the next day with 5000 plus grafts it's just not common sense, most of the unhappy hw patients don't understand this for some reason which rings alarm bells for me that they're not being real.

 

I'd also like to add when a hw unhappy patient posts a bad thread everyone notices it and it becomes a huge epic 15 page thread or whatever and you've got to ask your self why is this and the reason is because people like a shock and a scandal but that it self speaks volumes simply because we are shocked to see bad threads about hw as they are few and far between.

 

We've got about 3 unhappy patients at the moment but how many happy patients are they? I'd say thousands but what you've got to remember is if you get a good result you're likely to get back on with your life and highly unlikely to bother with ht forums i know this because i did that after my first ht and i did not return here for many years i'm only here now because my hair thinned else where. On the other hand if you have a unhappy ht result you're gonna be still stuck at home on the web doing whatever you can to get your hair fixed or channel your anger and if this means you've got to stick the boot into your dr that is what you will do. So on that basis 3 unhappy patients is nothing given the fact that it's highly likely everyone with a unhappy ht will definitely broadcast his plight for the world to see!

[orlhair1]

I agree with you guys. A lot of people simply don't have realistic expectations. I also think it is good to share both good and bad experiences because they are helpful for people doing research as long as it is factually based or legitimate questions. Some of the attacks however are over the top and not really helpful (both against the clinics at times and against the posters at times). If someone is not happy with their results for some reason they should make every effort to discuss and resolve that with their doctor rather than attack them in an open forum. Certainly if the clinic does not respond for some reason, that is good information to know. However I am sure that all of the top clinics will respond to their patients' concerns.

[Guest Ian512017155]

My opinion all high level hair transplant surgeons including H&W are going to have a unhappy client from time to time and if they have more clients then other surgeons then mathematically their chances of having more clients unhappy increase. However, I will admit lately on this site we seen an increase of unhappy clients from H&W and Dr. Feller for example, two highly respected clinics. A lot of this has to do with having more clients; people’s expectations are too high, just some people you can never make happy, poor hair physiology and some doctors and techs just have poor skills. I think a lot of problems have to do with hair physiology, if someone has poor hair physiology and go to DR. Feller for an example they might just have a terrible end result, this has nothing to do with his skills but has to do with your own physiology.

However, you might go to a complete moron and have great hair physiology and in the end you might just have a good result. I just wish doctors could predict your hair physiology before wasting tens of thousands of dollars for nothing.

Lastly I think the biggest issue is miscommunication! So many of these doctors have paid consultations or whatever you call them. I don’t care what business you are in if there is a middle person, miscommunication will most certainly happen, words will be either added or left out, words will be taken out of context and all heck will break loose either over the phone or online here. If I was someone who was unhappy with my hair transplant I would DEMAND to speak to the doctor themselves and themselves only, and do a over the internet review, send photos or more important do a in office review and work out your problems.

[Spanker]

I still don't really know what a realistic expectation is. Is a realistic expectation that one much use toppik to not look bald?

 

Some patients are just crazy. I know that there was one patient that was complaining how bad his result was and it looked amazing to me, so you have to take some complaints with a grain of salt. Especially the ones that are reluctant or do not post quality photos.

[orlhair1]

I think you can determine what a likely (but not guaranteed) outcome is by talking to your doctor and seeing if that matches your expectations, assuming you are working with any of the top doctors. It is an individual goal for everyone. I think we all have to go into this understanding that the outcome could be a little better or worse than what we expect, and if people are simply unrealistic then they probably won't be happy in the end.

Edited June 19, 2011 by orlhair1
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