Bad HT Experience - Dr. Feller (long)

[TakingThePlunge]

I think whether or not badluck is a "passer by" remains to be seen. He was not a member prior to this incident and seems to have joined expressly for the purpose of sharing this experience. That doesn't reflect upon his credibility but, when giving the benefit of the doubt, I feel that Dr. Feller's reputation speaks volumes.

 

I am inclined to accept the most reasonable explanation when assessing the validity of such statements. If you take a moment and think about it, what in the world would motivate a physician who spends a great deal of time cultivating a reputation like Dr. Feller's to suddenly try to pull the wool over a random patient's eyes. What would he hope to gain? One more patient? Hardly worth the potential fallout. Especially when we take into account that Dr. Feller is fully aware of and regularly participates in the open discussion forums such as this.

 

We'll never know the ins and outs of what transpired between Dr. Feller and this patient but I'm confident that there is nothing underhanded at the core of this situation and I'd put my scalp in Dr. Feller's hands any day.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Guys,

 

I appreciate your input and understand your concerns about removing a topic. If this poster had just shared his concerns about less than optimal results and problems with coming to an amicable resolution, I would have no problems with this topic and no matter who requested me to take it down, I wouldn't even consider it.

 

As you know, all patients are welcome to share their genuine experiences, good or bad. But there is question as to whether or not this poster is genuine. While I believe he had less than optimal results and is having difficulty reaching a resolution he can be satisfied with, "badluck" has made 2 bold accusations against Dr. Feller which are extremely damaging to Dr. Feller's reputation. Also, the likelihood that these statements are true are slim to none.

 

Thus, it is now up to the poster to provide proof of these claims.

 

I'd consider simply removing these claims from the topic, but they're so embedded in the original post and topic that doing so would render the topic almost useless. I will however, invite the patient to re-post their experience on the premise that 1) he doesn't make false claims and 2) he's willing to allow Dr. Feller full permission to post his side of the story including photos.

 

All of the above policies can be found in our terms of service and on the discussion topic "Maintaining a Fair and Safe Environment on our Forum for Patients and Physicians".

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Michael,

 

You're right, we don't. That's why I've asked him to provide proof of his allegations before I consider removing the topic. However, if he can't provide sufficient proof of his claims, then I am going to remove this topic.

 

I strongly suggest at that point that Badluck and Dr. Feller discuss things privately and handle the concerns rather than involve attorneys and courts.

 

Bill

[Sparky]

I dont think that this topic will damage Dr Feller at all, this guy has posted this on pretty much all the forums, but with no pics, so no credibility.

 

I think you run a risk by removing the topic of people thinking that you wont allow anything bad to be said about any of the doctors recommended on here, people will think its more suspicious if you do remove the topic. I dont think Dr Feller needs to be wrapped up in cotton wool, we all know he is a great Dr and one poster, saying bad things about him wont change anything.

 

Removing this topic could just make you look like hair-site, they remove anything bad said about Armani, and that looks really bad.

 

Just think about all the pro-bono work that Dr Feller has done, 1 bad result out of countless great results wont do him any harm. I'd still let him operate on me, and i'm very picky.

[Danielkiwi]

Hi guys

 

I have read through the entire thread and have a couple of interesting comments. Firstly, i dont want to imply what is right or wrong as i was not a privy to the communication between the patient and Dr. Feller..

 

However, this is one my fears regarding the entire HT process. I have consulted with a number of doctors outside and inside this coalition and there was only one doctor who said the he cannot promise any results. He will try his best but there are no guarantees. This doctor is considered in the top three on this network and i would blindly trust him on his reputation (it was not Dr. Feller BTW)..All the other doctors did not even mention a possibility of failure...i really respect the doctor who mentioned this possibility and that was the reason of me cancelling my HT for the time being after a long period of introspection...It is easy to blame the patient for not doing enough research and not knowing the possibility of failure..it is also a catch 22 situation as doctors would also not want to scare the patients away by mentioning the possibility of failure...

 

My biggest concern is the waiver form..lets imagine this..you have had private consultation with a doctor..everything goes well and you put down the deposit..on the day of surgery, you are given the waiver form to sign 30 minutes before the surgery..(drugs or no drugs is not even a factor in my example and i personally dont think the thread starter is implying this even though he may come accross as trying to do so)..what do you expect the patient to do at that time if he does not like some terms on the waiver form..would any body have the courage to walk away from the surgery at the time???

 

so what is the solution.i personally think before scheduling surgery all of us should read the waiver form and keep a copy of it. Also, if the procedure fails, the doctor should also take some responsibilty as it is a joint partnership in many ways..i see that Dr. Feller has offered some options but no were did he offer a partial cash refund..To me, that would be the deciding factor in seeing how a doctor stands behind a patient when things go wrong!!!!

Edited November 5, 2010 by Danielkiwi

[hrvoje14]

i have to say that the idea of removing threads at somebody's request makes me very nervous... we are all adults here, and we can all read, read what both sides have to say and make up our mind... i don't see how a claim/accusation in itself can tarnish a doctor's reputation if he or she refutes it in his/her response posted here for all to see...

 

as for people demanding pictures - what would be the point? from what i gather, dr Feller is not denying poor/no growth, so that is beside the point, i think.

[Danielkiwi]

I'm 100% on Dr Fellers side by the way, cheeses me off when people come on here whining about Dr's then giving no pics to prove it, there should of been pics in the first post.

 

i really dont see the purpose of producing pictures as Dr. Feller has himself acknowledged the lack of results.

 

I also find it funny that some guys are accusing him of being a passer by or some fictitious person as Dr. feller has acknowldged his existence by reponding to his post so promptly!!!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Sparky and all,

 

I understand your concerns, but there's plenty of evidence proving members are welcome to share their genuine experiences good or bad on this forum. I've made the reasons why I may remove this topic clear in my explanation above. Moreover, there are plenty of legitimate topics with reported concerns about less than optimal growth that have been allowed to continue because they were genuine.

 

The issue here isn't that the poster had less than optimal results. It's that he's accused Dr. Feller of being a criminal and his credibility as a genuine poster has been called into question. Thus, I stand firm that if he can't back up these claims with facts, I will be removing this topic.

 

Note that my decision for this course of action has nothing to do with a request for removal, but because it's the right thing to do. Trust me, I've declined removing numerous topics by request from various physicians over the years because it would have been the wrong thing to do.

 

I hope the members of this community can appreciate the reasons for this course of action. Again, these policies are clearly defined in our terms of service and the discussion topic "Maintaining a Fair and Safe Environment on our Forum for Patients and Physicians".

 

Best Regards,

 

Bill

[wb280]

One of the most mind boggling threads i have come across. I agree with points made by both sides but ultimately, i stand by Bill. Simply put it, there have been a couple other threads in which members openly expressed their dismay over the results by Dr Feller but only the results have been discussed. Badluck is ok with less than impressive results, but he is concerned about fundamental conducts of Dr Feller in which this is the first time i have come across. Dr Feller has had so many patients to date and i agree that unless Badluck can show to us all concrete proof of unethical practice, if not, its really very damaging to Dr Feller. Imagine new members come in and read such incorrect material. The issue here is no longer about results, but its about ethics of this particular doctor which is more serious.

 

Bill, i support your decision that unless Badluck can produce evidence of such bad ethics, this thread should be disposed of.

[wb280]

Bill, u posted your reply before me but u echoed a very sound reason for your deletion. Its now not about results but very degrading and malicious claims on Dr Feller's ethics. We need concrete evidence. However, i suggest u give some time to Badluck to produce such if he can.

[wb280]

Daniel, 'passer by' as in new member coming in just for a certain 'purpose'. I am trying to find the sentence in which u said someone mentioned he was fictitious. Maybe u can help me cos i just cant find it. thanks.

[Bill - Seemiller]

WB280.

 

I'm glad you understand my point of view and reasons for my concerns and course of action.

 

I will indeed give Badluck a couple of days to provide proof of his allegations before making a decision on what to do with this topic. In addition to my public response on this topic, I've sent him a private message with my request.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Sparky]

Ok forget the pics, as at this point they seem to be of no consequence. Like Bill said the poster needs to prove that Dr Feller asked him to sign the waiver after the drugs were administered, I think this will be very hard hard to do.

 

I do think that its a bit off to first be notified that you have to sign a waiver on the actual day of surgery way after you have put down your deposit, and traveled to the clinic. I'm not saying this is what happened in this case as I wasnt there.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Sparky

[badluck]

Hi Bill, forum members, and Dr. Feller,

First, I want to thank you all for keeping this discussion mature and civil. It's a sign that there is a great community here. I can understand Bill's objections now that he's pointed them out and I would like to abide by his rules.

 

I think that some of what I've written has been misinterpreted and that I also misstated an important point. Hopefully this will clear up the two contentious points. The tone of my original post was one of frustration and I'm sorry that my feelings became intertwined with relating the facts. I want to stress again that I do not believe that Dr. Feller had any malicious intent toward me. However, he is there to sell his procedure to prospective patients. If the following explanations and edits to the original post do not meet forum rules, then please let me know so that we can solve any issues.

 

The first point, "that he drugged you prior to discussing and having you signing a standard consent form for surgery". I never stated that Dr. Feller drugged me. I apologize if that was in any way insinuated as that was not my intention. I stated that he wrote a prescription for Valium for the day of the surgery. I stated that I also talked to his office before the day of surgery to check whether it was safe to combine that with a Xanax for anxiety and I was given an "ok". I also stated that I was not told to take the drugs in the confines of the office and I took the drugs before entering his office. I have edited the original post to make that more obvious. I will repeat that I do not believe Dr. Feller had a malicious intent to drug me before signing a waiver.

 

The second point, "that he withheld a copy of this consent form which is a violation of NY state law." I originally stated "On the day of the surgery, after you've taken the recommended Valium, you will sign a medical waiver. You won't be given a copy of this waiver. And if you ask for it later, you won't hear back from Feller. Only after hiring a lawyer was a copy of the waiver produced." This was misleading to write and I have edited it.

In all honesty, I don't know whether or not I was given a copy of the waiver on the day of surgery. I can state that I did not have a copy of it with the post surgery information concerning care of the surgery area. It is certainly possible that I lost it during travel of some other time after the procedure. Also, this was the experience of my surgery and I should not have made it sound as though it was a procedure in place for all patients that "after you've taken the recommended Valium, you will sign a medical waiver". I have edited this sentence also in the original post.

However, I do stand by the second half of my statement that when I requested a copy of the waiver (March 2010) I received no response from Dr. Feller's office until I had a lawyer request it formally (June 2010). Whether it was an oversight or not I don't know. But that is what happened. Below is a copy of my last email to Dr. Feller where this request was made and which was left unanswered.

 

I would like to urge Dr. Feller and all HT doctors to consider making some improvements to the patient understanding of the procedure in the following ways:

 

1) there exists a potential for no results or results with very little yield in the 4-5% range for strip HT

(these numbers were posted by Dr. Feller in response to a follow-up question on my thread in another forum, along with the statement "most doctors don't want to admit they have any patients who've experienced cosmetically insignficant results.")

 

2) a medical waiver is either discussed and signed before the "non-refundable" deposit is paid, or that the "non-refundable" deposit can in fact be refunded if the patient disagrees with statements made in the medical waiver. No patient should feel compelled to sign a waiver because they have laid down a non-refundable deposit.

 

3) the patient is made aware that pre-surgery prescriptions are to be taken inside the office and that ample time will be given before surgery for prescriptions to take effect.

 

 

I would give Dr. Feller permission to send my photos and professional notes to another professional HT doctor to review, but I am not inclined to have him share such personal information on a public forum. I'm not trying to censor anything, but I do want to retain privacy. However, I don't understand what the relevance of this information is since I am not arguing against Dr. Feller's professional work, only his communication to the patient of potential null results. I absolutely invite Dr. Feller to give his side of the story as long as he retains my personal privacy (meaning to leave out my name & photos). Thus far, I haven't received any communication from him since my last email in March.

 

Additionally, if Dr. Feller would like to contact me to work out an amicable solution then I will be happy to chat with him. I felt very limited in options after he did not respond to my effort at communication which prompted the retainer of a lawyer. I honestly have no personal bad feelings toward him. I do object to some of the procedures that he has in place including: communication of the possibilities of a lack of results, and communication of the administration of drugs on the day of surgery.

 

 

 

>>>>>

Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 13:27:38 -0500

 

Hi Dr. Feller,

This is unfortunate news. I relied upon your website for information and I am not able to find any mention of the possibility of low to no growth. I don't rely upon online forum posts for medical information.

 

Could you make available a copy of the consent form? I don't seem to have a copy.

 

XXXXX

>>>>>>

[Danielkiwi]

Exactly sparky. I really dont understand what kind of evidence this patient can produce at this time. He had an experience and he has posted it on this forum. All of us are adults and make make up our minds reading the entire thread...

 

What is gone is gone and i think there is a lesson in it for all of us to learn. communication is the key and please read waiver forms before the day of surgery..for me, i am really interested in seeing if the doctor will offer him some kind of partial refund and i think that is what exactly the patient is looking for!!

 

Wb - I dont think the word fictitious was mentioned anywhere but i got a feeling that some posters were accusing this guy to not be genuine!! the fact that he is a passerby or not should not even be a factor in evaluating his experience...

[hrvoje14]

i do understand this isn't about a poor result but rather about questioning a doctor's ethics, but even so - as this claim/accusation is grossly at odds with dr Feller's thousands of satisfied patients, many of whom post here, i think that by removing the topic and denying future readers the chance to make up their own mind, you are adding suspicion to an otherwise benign situation.

[wb280]

Sparky, exactly. It will be tough to prove so, but on the flip side, it will be hard for Doc Feller to prove also. I think it boils down to how Dr Feller has conducted himself all these while. He has countless patients who can vouch for him, be it results or ethics. Come on, do u think that 'criminal' act he has been accused of can go undetected for so long? If it had been so, people would have exposed him long ago.

[Sparky]

"2) a medical waiver is either discussed and signed before the "non-refundable" deposit is paid, or that the "non-refundable" deposit can in fact be refunded if the patient disagrees with statements made in the medical waiver. No patient should feel compelled to sign a waiver because they have laid down a non-refundable deposit."

 

I very much agree with this bit, this should be obvious.

[wb280]

badluck, i feel right at ease with your reply. It shows an educated, realistic mature poster at best. You have mentioned many times that Dr Feller has not been malicious to u, which proves that his ethics is not the concern here. Its about communication break down, and his reluctance / non compliance to producing the waiver when u requested etc.

 

As such, i believe bad luck is just concerned on the communication breakdown between the clinic and himself. Can i suggest that since Dr Feller is definitely aware of this topic, Bad Luck, why not discuss it privately with the clinic staff and see if u guys can come to an amicable solution? At this juncture, i am pretty sure they will reply, and hopefully u guys can sort out an agreement beneficial to both.

 

Daniel : no issues mate, i was just trying to find but could not!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Badluck,

 

I can understand your initial frustration, but you made some pretty bold accusations in your first post, all of which, you've now retracted after providing a more detailed explanation.

 

Since you've admitted that your original statements are misleading and claim you've edited your original misleading statements containing bold accusations, I'm potentially willing to let this topic remain.

 

However, I see that you have not edited the following from your original post:

 

"On the day of the surgery, after you've taken the recommended Valium, you will sign a medical waiver. You won't be given a copy of this waiver. And if you ask for it later, you won't hear back from Feller. Only after hiring a lawyer was a copy of the waiver produced."

 

You agree that the above is misleading on two accounts however, you have not edited it. This statement makes it sound like Dr. Feller provided you with a valium and then produced a copy of the standard agreement for you to sign. Furthermore it also implies that Dr. Feller purposely witheld documentation from you when you've just admitted that you aren't sure whether or not you originally received a copy. Moreover, your initial email to Dr. Feller may have been lost or forgotten which is far different than a refusal to provide a copy of the standard agreement you signed, which is also implied by your statement.

 

Since you admitted that these statements are misleading, please remove this entire statement or re-word it so it reflects an accurate assessment of what happened.

 

Instead of removing this topic then, I will consider going through the topic and removing reference to these false accusations so that the topic only contains your dissatisfaction with your results and concerns about lack of communication. However, in return, you must be willing to provide Dr. Feller the permission to share his side of the story and post your photos if he feels its appropriate. See "Maintaining a Fair and Safe Environment on our Forum for Patients and Physicians" which explains this policy. Obviously, your identity can be well hidden by cropping the photos to only show your hair. Thus, I trust you won't have a problem with this reasonable request.

 

Moving forward however, I strongly encourage you to contact Dr. Feller privately to resolve your concerns in order to come up with a fair and amicable resolution to your less than optimal growth. Hopefully communication will no longer be an issue.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[badluck]

Hi Bill,

I think you just didn't give me enough time (18 minutes) for the edit.

 

I believe it may be misleading on your part to say that "you made some pretty bold accusations in your first post, all of which, you've now retracted after providing a more detailed explanation."

 

There were two points. One of which was misinterpreted (drug administration), the other that I stated that I wasn't given a copy of the waiver which I acknowledge that I have no way of knowing at this point.

 

I appreciate your feedback. I just don't want the details to be misconstrued.

 

Cheers

[j1j9j85]

i like the way this issue is being handled i think removing the post would have been a bad move!!!

 

i just think its a shame that the participants of the thread and forum members cant see the lack of results you speak of in picture form!?

 

a simple before and 12 months after with the whole face covered with computer art or paper would not give away any personal details and you may always remove the pics after they have had time to be evaluated....

 

im aware the issue has some what shifted focus from the actual lack of results and on to dr fellers practice, but the results are the intial reason be hind the whole incident and start to this thread!!!??

 

if the results are indeed poor and dr feller has confirmed this with you then i feel some middle ground towards a solution shouldnt be that hard to find between the two of you??

 

****may i ask what it is you hope to achieve or gain interms of an outcome?? as im sure you havent mentioned any goals as of yet???

 

:confused:

[Bill - Seemiller]

Badluck,

 

My statement wasn't misleading at all. You admitted that your original statements were misleading and thus retracted them with a detailed explanation of your intentions.

 

My best guess is that Dr. Feller never received your original email in March requesting a copy of the standard agreement. Obviously, once he did hear from you (through your attorney), he provided you with the information you requested.

 

I do however, understand your concern and agree that surgeons should discuss with their patients the rare event of less than optimal growth and their policies on handling it before the procedure. I also think patients should take this initiative to discuss this if their surgeon doesn't. Knowing how complications are handled ahead of time would save patients and physicians a lot of grief when they occur.

 

In my opinion, communication is a two way street and it's absolutely vital for patients and physicians to talk in order to get and remain on the same page.

 

At this point, I'd encourage you to speak privately with Dr. Feller about your concerns and how to resolve them. I also encourage you to visit his clinic to let him evaluate your results in person. I trust through open and honest discussion, you two can come to an amicable solution in resolving your concerns.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[mahhong]

It's heartening that this post has remained civilised! Badluck has been both open and considerate about the whole thing despite what must be disappointment for him at how his procedure has turned out.

 

I do agree, in principle, that a waiver should be discussed and the chance of complications mentioned pretty explicitly by doctors (whether or not Dr. Feller does or did do that I don't know?). The patient has the right to be informed of the facts of any procedure before making a decision on whether to take things further.

 

That having been said, it is somewhat a given that cosmetic surgery and indeed all surgery carries a degree of risk. No patient should really be able to claim they don't understand that fact.

 

Ultimately this is just an unfortunate situation in which it seems no party is to "blame", so to speak. I can sympathise with doctors regarding how they handle the tricky issue of discussing complications or problems. Whilst a patient absolutely has every right to know what may or may not go wrong long before they lay a dime down it's a fact that most HTs performed by an experienced and professional surgeon are a success. In my opinion it's a tricky balance between being honest about the procedure but retaining a sense of optimism in what is usually the face of overwhelming success. It's possible to frighten anybody off a procedure if you start listing what might go wrong, or might not work, or might be a problem. I'm not remotely suggesting doctors should or do withhold information but, as Bill says, communication is a two way system and patients must vocalise concerns and cover their bases with regards to expectations, concerns and fears.

 

I hope badluck and Dr. Feller sort this out since neither deserve to come out of this compromised in my opinion. But this is most definitely a situation that won't be resolved on these forums, so it's up to the parties directly involved to get back in touch and work in good faith to find a solution. I'm sure that can be done!

[Sean]

It's great to see a thread like this that is very civilized. Definitely a stressful situation, but a very civilized discussion. Some patients curse, scream, shout, and what not over an unsuccessful result due to many things. But this person has remained all calm and smooth. I feel bad you didn't get the growth, as I know everyone has expectations after surgery, it's a time consuming, expensive process of moving your donor hairs to better your looks and self esteem, the months of waiting, and etc. People want to look better by this process and when you don't get what everyone seems to get, then you just go through emotional hell even more. It's is completely understandable. It's discussions like these that are very useful. I know a couple people that had a similar situation with some coalition docs but they are satisfied with the resolutions they and the docs came up with. Every doc varies and offers different things when things like this happen. Hope you reach a resolution and are satisfied. Good luck.