Finasteride and Depression

[garet]

I just stopped taking finasteride after about 6 weeks. The last 2 weeks I've had a prolonged period of depression that seemed to come from nowhere. This wasn't just normal depression, as I know the difference. After doing some research, I found some studies which link finasteride to depression.

 

Curious if anyone else had similar experiences?

 

BioMed Central | Full text | Finasteride induced depression: a prospective study

 

Update Propecia and Depression

 

Anyway, just like with other side-effects, such as erectile disfunction, most people won't experience this, but if you are susceptible to depression, and are taking finasteride, you might consider discussing it with your doctor. I don't want to take yet another drug, an anti-depressant, to fight the side-effects that may be a result of finasteride.

 

Of course if you feel well, and finasteride seems to work for you, then no need to be concerned.

[Spanker]

Hope you feel better...I think a lot of people will go throught depression on or off Fin or any other drugs. When someone starts a drug, and have a medical change, they automatically assume it is the med, but it is not always.

 

Especailly with a drug like Fin....becasue I think most men losing hair go through heavy emotions about it (the loss of the hair).

[garet]

Hope you feel better...I think a lot of people will go throught depression on or off Fin or any other drugs. When someone starts a drug, and have a medical change, they automatically assume it is the med, but it is not always.

 

Especailly with a drug like Fin....becasue I think most men losing hair go through heavy emotions about it (the loss of the hair).

 

No let's get this straight, my depression has nothing at all to do with the gradual loss of my hair, which has been happening for more than 10 years already.

 

It isn't normal to just start having extreme depression when going on or off a drug. Read my post a bit more carefully. I said most people don't have depression on finasteride, but it has been linked to depression in some users. I stopped using it a few days ago and I'm already feeling somewhat better.

 

Don't try to diagnose me or tell me it's in my head.

Edited October 4, 2010 by garet
edit content

[Swimmy]

Hope you feel better...I think a lot of people will go throught depression on or off Fin or any other drugs. When someone starts a drug, and have a medical change, they automatically assume it is the med, but it is not always.

 

Especailly with a drug like Fin....becasue I think most men losing hair go through heavy emotions about it (the loss of the hair).

 

 

Um no. I don't if you are trying to defend fin or not...It seems when someone on this forum posts their feedback that they are getting bad symptoms from fin, everyone goes into 'say ain't so" mode. An act all surprised, when sides from fin are very common. More common than the supposed only 3%.

 

You can automatically assume if you suddenly feel really depressed while in Fin..Well then its more than likely its the fin.

Edited October 5, 2010 by Swimmy

[garet]

Um no. I don't if you are trying to defend fin or not...It seems when someone on this forum posts their feedback that they are getting bad symptoms from fin, everyone goes into 'say ain't so" mode. An act all surprised, when sides from fin are very common. More common than the supposed only 3%.

 

You can automatically assume if you suddenly feel really depressed while in Fin..Well then its more than likely its the fin.

 

Right, like I said, most people who take finasteride won't have sexual side effects or depression, but there are links to these side effects, though the link with depression is less publicised. I never had any sexual side effects but the depression came on strong within 3 weeks of starting finasteride. It wasn't just normal up and down moods, it was prolonged depression.

 

I was curious if anyone else experienced this problem on fin. Unfortunately, now I can't determine if fin would have limited my hair loss, but since I have a receding hairline, fin probably wouldn't have helped anyway.

[Danielkiwi]

Hi Garet

 

I totally understand where you are coming from as i have been through this ordeal myself. i took propecia for about 3 months. Around the 2 week mark, i started experiencing extreme anxiety, brain fog and depression...i had feelings that i have never experienced before and i am 33 and have been through various tough stages in life!!!...I am sure everybody gets depresssed here and there but this looked like extreme depression...there were times that i could not get up from the bed in the morning..i als had some ED issues...i have discontinued prop for a month now and the ED issues have gone completely...there is still some lingering depressive thoughts but not as extreme as when i was on prop...i am trying to stay fit by hitting the gym and eating rite...weight training really makes me fee good...i am also going to see a endocronologist to see if propecia has not messed up my hormones...maybe, you could do the same if the sides persist..Good luck

[EpilepticSceptic]

6 weeks ? You've got to be kidding, right ?

 

6 weeks is not even enough time for your body to adjust to the drug. Most likely what you were feeling was exactly that, your body adjusting to the new experience of the lower DHT levels.

 

Depression ? Maybe I'm from the old school (41 years), but when I used to tell my parents I was depressed and didn't feel like getting up out of bed to go to school my father would whip out his belt and smack me a good one on the ass. It's truly amazing what a sharp pain sensation like that can do to get rid of depression.

 

I take 1.25 mg of finasteride daily. Brain fog ? I can still remember phone #s from ex-girlfriends in the early 1990s. I can also play Beethoven's most complicated piano compositions from memory without missing a single note! Lethargy ? I'm 41 years old and I'm in the best shape of my life; I ride 20 miles every day on a bicycle and leave guys in their mid 20s panting and gasping for air trying to keep up with me. I think they watch too much TV which is another MAJOR cause of depression!

 

Are there days when I wake up and it's hard to even get out of bed ? You bet! But do you know what I do to GET MYSELF OUT OF BED ? I smack myself on the ass and FORCE myself to get up !! Try it -- it works !

 

My motto: no pain, no gain. You either REALLY WANT to keep your hair and look your best, or you're mamby pamby about it. Also, the MIND is a much more powerful tool than 99.9% of people realize. You can overcome anything IF you have the WILL POWER to do it.

 

Spending too much time hanging out on hairloss forums can also be an EXTREME source of depression !!!

Edited October 6, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic

[TakingThePlunge]

Guys,

 

I know that the topics discussed on our forum can sometimes evoke a lot of passion but please remember that each of us comes here for information and support. Let's keep the discussions cordial and educational.

 

All the best!

[Swimmy]

6 weeks ? You've got to be kidding, right ?

 

6 weeks is not even enough time for your body to adjust to the drug. Most likely what you were feeling was exactly that, your body adjusting to the new experience of the lower DHT levels.

 

Depression ? Maybe I'm from the old school (41 years), but when I used to tell my parents I was depressed and didn't feel like getting up out of bed to go to school my father would whip out his belt and smack me a good one on the ass. It's truly amazing what a sharp pain sensation like that can do to get rid of depression.

 

I take 1.25 mg of finasteride daily. Brain fog ? I can still remember phone #s from ex-girlfriends in the early 1990s. I can also play Beethoven's most complicated piano compositions from memory without missing a single note! Lethargy ? I'm 41 years old and I'm in the best shape of my life; I ride 20 miles every day on a bicycle and leave guys in their mid 20s panting and gasping for air trying to keep up with me. I think they watch too much TV which is another MAJOR cause of depression!

 

Are there days when I wake up and it's hard to even get out of bed ? You bet! But do you know what I do to GET MYSELF OUT OF BED ? I smack myself on the ass and FORCE myself to get up !! Try it -- it works !

 

My motto: no pain, no gain. You either REALLY WANT to keep your hair and look your best, or you're mamby pamby about it. Also, the MIND is a much more powerful tool than 99.9% of people realize. You can overcome anything IF you have the WILL POWER to do it.

 

Spending too much time hanging out on hairloss forums can also be an EXTREME source of depression !!!

 

Yikes, 20 miles a day? That's really not good for you. A lot of oxidative stress. Are you taking anything after your work out?

[j1j9j85]

fin does have sides as i experianced them but it was def after alot longer than 6 weeks may be 12 to 24 weeks is when it started to very noticable!!!!!

 

but again the strange thing is where as i had libido loss and deppression and brain fog.....

 

this time taking dutas 2 years later no sides at all..... no where near as extreme as finest

 

some times i wonder if something that was compounded in the finest not the finest itself was affecting me..... as i have two generic finest and one gives me ill effects where as the one did not and dutas is ok???

 

very strange i swear its the one brand of finest i have that was making me ill!!

 

i know its sounds abit odd but before you stop finest altogether try a diff brand as i wish i did this instead of stopping for the 2 year break off it as my hair really took a beating and i looked terrible so in the end i was forced to go back on and fingers crossed but this time all is well................. i just wished i changed brands first as my hair woul dhave looked alot better for it........

 

also get your oestrogen levels checked as if you have normaly high oestrogen levels finest will giv the user faster and greater side effects such as depression and brain fog!!!!

Edited October 6, 2010 by j1j9j85

[Bill - Seemiller]

Guys,

 

Please keep this debate educational and respectful. I've removed the posts above that contained personal insults and name calling.

 

Cool off and have a laugh by viewing the hilarious Follicular Follies of Balding Bob and Fleckie the Follicle cartoon :-). You can also discuss it by visiting the new Follicular Follies forum.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Danielkiwi]

6 weeks ? You've got to be kidding, right ?

 

6 weeks is not even enough time for your body to adjust to the drug. Most likely what you were feeling was exactly that, your body adjusting to the new experience of the lower DHT levels.

 

Depression ? Maybe I'm from the old school (41 years), but when I used to tell my parents I was depressed and didn't feel like getting up out of bed to go to school my father would whip out his belt and smack me a good one on the ass. It's truly amazing what a sharp pain sensation like that can do to get rid of depression.

 

I take 1.25 mg of finasteride daily. Brain fog ? I can still remember phone #s from ex-girlfriends in the early 1990s. I can also play Beethoven's most complicated piano compositions from memory without missing a single note! Lethargy ? I'm 41 years old and I'm in the best shape of my life; I ride 20 miles every day on a bicycle and leave guys in their mid 20s panting and gasping for air trying to keep up with me. I think they watch too much TV which is another MAJOR cause of depression!

 

Are there days when I wake up and it's hard to even get out of bed ? You bet! But do you know what I do to GET MYSELF OUT OF BED ? I smack myself on the ass and FORCE myself to get up !! Try it -- it works !

 

My motto: no pain, no gain. You either REALLY WANT to keep your hair and look your best, or you're mamby pamby about it. Also, the MIND is a much more powerful tool than 99.9% of people realize. You can overcome anything IF you have the WILL POWER to do it.

 

Spending too much time hanging out on hairloss forums can also be an EXTREME source of depression !!!

 

I dont think there was a need for this nasty post but since you have bought it up, let me share my thoughts!!!

 

ES. some of your theories continue to amaze me..First of all, i personally think drugs are for sick people and i think you have become a slave to this drug and will be for life since you have had a mega FUT...hence, you always viciously try to defend this drug at every given opportunity!!!even after that, there is no guarantee that fin will keep all your native hair all your life...and guess what, after that, you will need to go on the chair multiple times and that pencil thin scar you continue to talk about would not be pencil thin any more....IMO, HT's will only buy time and that is it

 

Secondly, i have always been a fitness freak and positive individual all my life and i have never felt like this before being on propecia....i never needed a belt to wake me up from the bed as i am self motivated to wake up at 6 am and hit the gym like a man and not take the easy way out by biking like a woman!!

 

And yes will power and mind is a strong thing!!! then why not use these forces to live healthy, exercise and not worry about being a salve to a tablet and hair which everybody is going to loose someday!! To me, everyone including myself who has had a HT or is considering one are weak people in the mind in some way or the other..if you have the b***s, shave your head and live like a man instead of doing all this cosmetic suff...every one knows what the world thinks about old women who get liposuctions, breast implants etc done to look young. To me, we are exactly like these old women and perharps girls think the same about us...if mind needs to be conqured, why not use the will power to remain bald and not take a tablet like a sick man!!!

[EpilepticSceptic]

D,

 

Well, I didn't mean my post to be nasty.

 

And TBH I am not an advocate of big pharma prescription drug use either. Fin is the ONLY prescription drug I take. I wont even take advil for headaches. I am that much of an anti-drug freak!

 

Now your comments about biking being the "easy way out" and indoor air conditioned gym workouts being the "manly" thing to do are quite laughable indeed! You obviously have no idea what type of biking I am talking about. Have you ever done any serious mountain biking ? If not then you have no idea what kind of endurance it takes to do it! Thinking of somebody lifting weights or walking on an electronic treadmill whilst watching football on a big screen TV in an indoor air-conditioned gym does NOT summon the image of a manly activity to me.

 

Concerning being a slave to finasteride I guess you are right in a way. But it seems to me because you had ED issues with it that this is simply your way of dismissing it. The way I see it is that when we are in the womb we are not yet man or woman, we are simply "human". It is the dominance of certain hormones (which occur by chance) that influence the development of male or female attributes. If one wishes to probe deeper one will discover that the terms "man" or "woman" are gender stereotypes created by society. We are really not completely 100% one or the other. So I have no problem with the idea that my "manliness" is being reduced from taking a drug that lowers my DHT levels. For preserving my prostate health it may very well be a good thing in the long run as MANY men in my family have died from prostate cancer in their 50s! I think alot of this "brain fog" that guys talk about is just the fact that when DHT levels are reduced our brains start drifting and daydreaming which is something common in women.

 

Like I said, you either want your hair or you dont. Without finasteride your chances of going completely bald are probably 99.9%. COMPLETELY bald means that you will not look anywhere near the same as you do now!! If you let this happen you may find yourself making eye contact with young women in coffee shops and feeling like some kind of perverted old man because NONE of them will even take a second glance at you, even though you are ONLY 5-10 years older than them!!! And you may suddenly find that women who look like your mother (with 5 kids) are the ONLY ones who will pay any attention to you, no matter what your efforts to keep in shape and look like a Tap Out freak are! The only way to know this is to live it in reality not just theory. Without fin by the time you hit 40 you will most likely "be there" and there will be no turning back.

 

If you are happy and feel free with the bald shaved head look then fine. I tried it for years and in the end just felt like another faceless shaved head "slave" clone in the crowd. I've also known many NW5/6 guys who would have nervous breakdowns if they misplaced their electric shaver for one day. You can call that freedom if you like but it just seems like another type of slavery to me. The only truly free person is one who would be so unconcerned with his cosmetic appearence that he would just let the monk fringe grow out and not think twice about it. I've met this type before and they also tend to let their teeth rot out and are not very fond of bathing often because they are just too "in the moment" to really care. They also NEVER get laid!

 

 

 

 

I dont think there was a need for this nasty post but since you have bought it up, let me share my thoughts!!!

 

ES. some of your theories continue to amaze me..First of all, i personally think drugs are for sick people and i think you have become a slave to this drug and will be for life since you have had a mega FUT...hence, you always viciously try to defend this drug at every given opportunity!!!even after that, there is no guarantee that fin will keep all your native hair all your life...and guess what, after that, you will need to go on the chair multiple times and that pencil thin scar you continue to talk about would not be pencil thin any more....IMO, HT's will only buy time and that is it

 

Secondly, i have always been a fitness freak and positive individual all my life and i have never felt like this before being on propecia....i never needed a belt to wake me up from the bed as i am self motivated to wake up at 6 am and hit the gym like a man and not take the easy way out by biking like a woman!!

 

And yes will power and mind is a strong thing!!! then why not use these forces to live healthy, exercise and not worry about being a salve to a tablet and hair which everybody is going to loose someday!! To me, everyone including myself who has had a HT or is considering one are weak people in the mind in some way or the other..if you have the b***s, shave your head and live like a man instead of doing all this cosmetic suff...every one knows what the world thinks about old women who get liposuctions, breast implants etc done to look young. To me, we are exactly like these old women and perharps girls think the same about us...if mind needs to be conqured, why not use the will power to remain bald and not take a tablet like a sick man!!!

[Danielkiwi]

No problems dude...i share your view points in a lot of ways and i personally think you are the most ideal Ht candidate there could possibly be. You have gone to the best HT surgeon on this planet and seem to have covered all your bases. Fin is working for you with no side effects and trust me, i am happy for you...you have done everything you possibly could and the rest is beyond your hand...

 

As for me and some other people, Fin has side effects coz every body is different...if fin worked for me, i would get a HT without hesitation...but i dont think i want to do a HT and try to ride out the sides of FIn..coz after 5 years, if the sides become more unbearable, there would be no where to go...to me that is more disastrous than having a buzzed head! Hence, my only request to you is not to try and convince people to continue on meds coz those who get the sides exactly know how it feels and you might never get feeling!!!

 

As far as the exercise comment is concerned, please ignore...it was in the heat of the moment..i think every kind of exercise is good and no body has the right to judge anyone..

 

Happy growing

[EpilepticSceptic]

Cool bruddha,

 

I am sorry that you got those sides from fin. I read some of your posts and it does indeed seem that you gave it a legit. try and that none of your issues were just in your head. It just seems that after only 6 weeks Garet might very well be making a mistake he will later regret. He looks to be a pretty good HT candidate if he can keep what he has.

 

TBH I definitely do not like the watery semen, but it's just something I have chosen to deal with for now. Trust me, the day that Histogen really proves itself to be a viable, safe treatment and is available I will have a "flushing fin down the toilet" party and everyone at HTN will be invited!!! It would be nice to be able to hit the ceiling again, if you know what I mean!

 

I am confident that day will come within the next 10 years so that I will not have to be on fin for my entire life. I did ALOT of research on the viability of HM and cloning pre-HT to make sure this stuff wasn't just some Star Trek science fiction. I can honestly say that if I felt chances were high it would not be available in my lifetime I likely would have not gone forward with the HT. That is how conservative I am.

Edited October 6, 2010 by EpilepticSceptic

[j1j9j85]

i have to say im with you on this one EpilepticSceptic 100%

[Danielkiwi]

Yeah ES. That would really be awesome..hopefulle, they come up with something in our generation. I think it is pretty ironic that man has reached the moon, can clone arms, legs but cannot do anything for a follicle!!

 

Having said that, i am getting used to the idea of being bald coz i feel i am not a good HT candidate (I have below average donor density as well) at this time and i feel a lot better pshycologically having accepted that...my girl is fine with that as well..but as your father said, a mans mind changes every 4-5 years, who knows what i will be thinking 4-5 years down the road..hell, i dont know what i will be thinking 4-5 months from now

[garet]

6 weeks ? You've got to be kidding, right ?

 

6 weeks is not even enough time for your body to adjust to the drug. Most likely what you were feeling was exactly that, your body adjusting to the new experience of the lower DHT levels.

 

Depression ? Maybe I'm from the old school (41 years), but when I used to tell my parents I was depressed and didn't feel like getting up out of bed to go to school my father would whip out his belt and smack me a good one on the ass. It's truly amazing what a sharp pain sensation like that can do to get rid of depression.

 

I take 1.25 mg of finasteride daily. Brain fog ? I can still remember phone #s from ex-girlfriends in the early 1990s. I can also play Beethoven's most complicated piano compositions from memory without missing a single note! Lethargy ? I'm 41 years old and I'm in the best shape of my life; I ride 20 miles every day on a bicycle and leave guys in their mid 20s panting and gasping for air trying to keep up with me. I think they watch too much TV which is another MAJOR cause of depression!

 

Are there days when I wake up and it's hard to even get out of bed ? You bet! But do you know what I do to GET MYSELF OUT OF BED ? I smack myself on the ass and FORCE myself to get up !! Try it -- it works !

 

My motto: no pain, no gain. You either REALLY WANT to keep your hair and look your best, or you're mamby pamby about it. Also, the MIND is a much more powerful tool than 99.9% of people realize. You can overcome anything IF you have the WILL POWER to do it.

 

Spending too much time hanging out on hairloss forums can also be an EXTREME source of depression !!!

 

Your "old school" views about depression and how you deal with it and what your father use to tell you is irrelevant to this topic.

 

Fin has been shown to be linked to depression in some people. You don't have to be on it for a year to feel the effects. I prefer to not take a drug that makes me feel crappy. No, I didn't lay in bed and cry like a "namby pamby". I lived my life as usual, but I just felt awful for about 2 weeks, nonstop. That was enough reason for me to stop. Within a few days of stopping fin, I felt normal again.

 

If I was convinced fin would help me, I might have stuck with it for a few more months, but fin doesn't even prevent receding hairline, which is my hair loss problem. On the Propecia website it even says that fin has not been shown to prevent receding hairline.

[brentipold]

Hopefully your problems disappear after a while..IF NOT, I'd strongly recommend checking out that board and see and educate yourself on why exactly you have having depression/brainfog.. A lot of the ppl on the site are kind of nutty, but theres some poeple who have healed themselves of their depression/brain fog..

 

 

Sorry for calling him an idiot. I tried to edit, but it woldnt let me.. But he is seriously misguided lets just say..

[Spanker]

Depression is a serious illness and should not be taken lightly, no matter what the cause...

 

The bottom line about the finasteride is do you trust the FDA or not(for the board....not garet personally)...if you do, then you still know that you have a 1-3 percent chance of experiencing side effects and should make an informed decision.

 

Some people have sides to tylenol or vitamins or sugar pills...

 

 

Since this as brought up I will address it too:

I do think that sites like propeciahelp do a disservice to men dealing with hairloss. It is terribly slanted overall (not all users) and I do not believe that the site paints a fair or realistic picture of propecia, its sides, or its frequency.

[brentipold]

Depression is a serious illness and should not be taken lightly, no matter what the cause...

 

The bottom line about the finasteride is do you trust the FDA or not(for the board....not garet personally)...if you do, then you still know that you have a 1-3 percent chance of experiencing side effects and should make an informed decision.

 

Some people have sides to tylenol or vitamins or sugar pills...

 

 

Since this as brought up I will address it too:

I do think that sites like propeciahelp do a disservice to men dealing with hairloss. It is terribly slanted overall (not all users) and I do not believe that the site paints a fair or realistic picture of propecia, its sides, or its frequency.

 

 

I bet if we took a poll on here, I'd say at least 15% of the men suffer some sort of side effect.... Blood tests don't lie my friend, sorry. That medication messed up my thyroid.. You don't develop a thyroid problem at age 23.. sorry. Especially when no one in your family, on either side has had a problem. I'm not trying to say the medication is horrible. It does a lot of good for people who don't have any side effects. I've even recommended it to people. The people on the site are legit, and so are their stories.. I live it everyday. It's hard for a lot of ppl to wrap their head around if they don't have any side effects from it.. so I really dont think you can talk or should have any input on the situation.

[mahhong]

Depression is unfortunately an 'unofficial' but documented side effect of finasteride in some people. Of course, the debate stems from the fact that a link between depression and finasteride hasn't been scientifically proven in any great capacity, so from a strictly logical perspective it's difficult to say for certain fin is the problem. However many people swear it is and, of course, each individual probably knows their body and mind best.

 

That having been said maybe there is the possibility for you to take fin but at a lower dosage? I'm not necessarily advocating you go back on it unless you're comfortable but I think that perhaps one of the key issues with finasteride is the 'blanket dose' that is recommended. If you take half the recommended dose, or even 2/3rds of it, you may find benefit to your hair without the side effects. It may just be a case of balancing it in your system.

 

I think that labelling fin as black or white isn't very useful. Like all medication dosage, personal tolerance, lifestyle choices and many other factors play a big part in the effectiveness of the drug and its effects on each individual. The problem with finasteride is people tend to label it the devil or a miracle in pill form. In truth it changes your body depending on the dosage, and some people experience good effects, bad effects or both.

 

To the original poster, I think the main thing is that when you stopped taking fin your depression went away. To that extent maybe (and it's a personal decision) altering your dose could find a happy medium? It would seem, worse case scenario, you try to find the happy medium, fail and then get rid of the fin and go back to normal.

 

Both mindless negativity and positivity for finasteride aren't really useful to people looking for an informed decision. I agree that propeciahelp is a site to use with caution, not because I don't believe in the people who post on it, but because it has labelled finasteride a poison and refuses to budge on its position. Similarly people who post up saying they take 5mg of finasteride a day and suggest you put it in your tea and use it as a bath salt and snort it and so on are doing an equal disservice to the drug. Every individual will have a unique response to the drug and should maybe think of it as a give and take situation rather than an outright it does/doesn't work for them.

 

As the moderators point out, I think being objective and rational is more useful than falling on one or another side of the fence and looking to snipe at every available opportunity. The truth is millions of men use finasteride and a large proportion of them seem to cope just fine with the drug. It has to come down to a personal decision on whether to ditch it, but maybe you could look into a different dose and just see if that makes a difference.

Edited October 8, 2010 by mahhong
Posted before finished.

[EpilepticSceptic]

brentipold,

 

You are right, I am an "idiot" and proud of it. And as an idiot my mood is just naturally too jovial to experience depression. As a matter of fact, I don't even really understand what depression is. It must be a by-product of industrial society. I seriously doubt that primitive man had the "luxury" of being depressed, he was simpy too busy surviving and procreating.

 

To what extent do you think sitting for hours everyday in front of a computer screen or having your head buried in an Iphone could be a possible source of depression ? To what extent do you think not having a fulfilling, spontaneous, exciting sex life with a beautiful woman you love and are seriously turned-on by could be a possible source of depression ? To what extent do you think that ingesting small quantities of flouride in drinking water and toothpaste every day could be a possible source of brain fog and depression ? To what extent do you think that holding a cell phone up to your ears for hours every day (which studies have shown cause brain cancer) could be a possible source of depression ? To what extent do you think ingesting fast foods full of processed waste products like MSG could be a possible source of brain fog and depression ? To what extent do you think breathing in toxic fumes in the air dispersed from chemical plants and automobiles could be a possible source of brain fog and depression ? To what extent do you think smoking, drinking, and recreational drug use could be a possible source of depression ? To what extent do you think sleep deprivation due to living in a regimented society that requires strict obedience to the time clock be a possible source of depression ? To what extent do you think that being processed into a mindless machine in the modern educational system from birth and having your childhood stripped away from you in order to become a mere cog in the wheel of an industrialized society be a possible source of depression ?

 

Should I go on any further ? I could probably write 100 more pages and that would just be getting started. My point is that there is an ENDLESS list of possible sources of depression in today's world. Finasteride IMO is somewhere at the bottom of my personal list.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Guys,

 

I think this is a very interesting topic and would hate to have to lock it because a few people can't be civil.

 

Please keep the debate respectful so that those who want to continue this discussion can.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[mahhong]

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with ES's concept of depression I think he is raising a few points that are valid and need to be addressed with being honest about finasteride use and its potential (but not proven) link to depression.

 

There is no doubt that depression linked to finasteride has been reported enough times to at least raise the possibility that there is a direct medical link between the two in certain cases. But there is also no doubt that depression can be more complex, and depression that seems linked to finasteride can in fact have different causes.

 

If you start taking finasteride and start feeling depressed that doesn't necessarily mean finasteride causes depression. Just to take an example (not a particularly likely one, but to illustrate a point): let's say you are taking several tablets or have an undiagnosed medical problem and finasteride interacts with the medicine of problem to cause depression, most people would say "finasteride caused me to be depressed" and strictly speaking they'd be right. However, the cause of the depression may not be finasteride, but the combining of finasteride with another event or medication. To that extent, the depression is caused equally by something else and in most people finasteride may not cause the same problem.

 

My point above isn't common as far as I know, but it demonstrates something; determining the root of depression (or the root of anything, for that matter) isn't simple. If you add "this" to "that" and get "X" result, that doesn't necessarily mean the formula is that+this=X. I understand this sounds pedantic, but its important in finasteride discussion because finasteride gets labelled by some quarters as a sort of devil's brew, but scientifically this has not been proven. Paracetamol can cause rashes in some people, but nobody suggests that paracetamol will cause you to have a rash. That's because in reality the cause of the rash is caused by a whole series of things, of which paracetamol acts as the trigger.

 

Another problem is that tablets, especially tablets which induce a strong change in people, can be used as a psychological crutch on which to blame other problems. I'm not for a moment suggesting the link between depression and finasteride is psychosomatic, but I am suggesting it is a possibility in some cases. You meet countless people who, for example, may start taking a drug which can potentially alter moods. They may have a random bad day after they start taking the drug and instantly worry they are being adversely effected by it. This worry leads to a downward slope; suddenly they find themselves withdrawn from social situations by their concern and begin to get deeper into a funk. Then they start to become convinced there is a link between the drug they are taking and the way they are feeling. When they stop taking the drug they psychologically feel proactive and like they are shedding the problem; lo and behold their attitude changes, the enthusiasm returns and they get out of their situation.

 

I'm not suggesting this is the root of all fin problems, but it's a possibility that, scientifically at least, has around equal merit to the idea that fin is a cause of depression. The simple truth is the situation is not black and white. Millions of men use fin without a single change either physically or mentally which by default proves that, at least alone, fin is not directly responsible for any one side effect alone, otherwise all users would be hit pretty equally and consistently with the same problems. In the same way that not all men receive equal benefits from fin, similarly not all men receive equal problems and, indeed, in the majority of cases, most men suffer from very mild or no side effects.

 

It boils down, unfortunately, to personal belief and decision. If you feel fin is causing intolerable problems and that it is the root of the problems, then getting rid of it is a logical choice for you. I would urge people, however, to look at their lifestyles, perhaps their general health and other factors that may be changing the way fin works for you. There may be cases in which changing something else can get rid of problematic side effects without stopping fin, who knows?

 

So, whilst I certainly don't agree with ES's opinion that depression is a bi-product of an 'industrial society (depression is found outside of the human species and, indeed, is a chemical imbalance that can affect many animals), he does make a point that the causes of depression are manifold and difficult to pin down. Quite often people find themselves getting depressed without any obvious reason and, it's only when they really analyse a situation, they begin to see a rich tapestry of problems that have culminated in very small steps towards depression. Finasteride may indeed, in some people, be capable of inducing a chemical depression without cause - but the science does not currently support that view and, indeed, the problem is not a pandemic that goes hand in hand with finasteride use. Most men do not suffer when they take finasteride. That makes it no less problematic for those that do, but it does suggest that there may be a delicate balance of many things that determine whether finasteride causes side effects.

 

The jury is still out on fin for a lot of people, but I would urge everybody to be open and honest about the drug. My problem with propeciahelp is that it treats fin as some poison everybody on this planet would do well to avoid. This is an unfair assessment on a drug that, for many, has had excellent results with no appreciable negative effects. Similarly propecia is not some miracle in pill form - it causes hormonal changes to your body and no matter how calculated or understood, we mess with nature at our peril. Fin, however, is essentially no different to taking antidepressants, paracetamol or even good multivitamins. All cause changes in our body, all have the potential to be dangerous to susceptible people and all affect us individually depending on the makeup of our bodies and general health.