Rather be a chrome dome then deal with this pain

[HouseOfCards]

Anyone else have serious sides from Fin?

 

I have been on it for over a year now I have have the worst brain fog and depression I have ever felt in my life. I have been getting anxiety attacks every day and went to the hospital thinking I was having a heart attack.

 

I almost feel like this drug makes you feel so much more embarrassed about your hair loss then you normally would. It is making me so much more emotional and I actually cry sometimes for no reason.

 

Im not trying to convince everyone this drug is horrible BUT be careful. I much rather be bald then feel the way I do everyday because of this drug and It took me almost a year and a half to realize it was Proscar that was doing it.

 

If anyone has questions or has been through this before please feel free to pm me or respond.

 

I don't know if I will still want a hair transplant after I have been off this for a few months. Hopefully I will continue to loose my hair so I can see what my final NW will be and then MAYBE ill consider getting a hair transplant. Right now I just want to get my life back. There is no way I could take this stuff for the rest of my life just to prevent me from loosing a few hairs on my head.

[JoeKid0000]

Sorry to hear that, HouseofCards,

 

Have you tried to tweak and reduce the dosage of finasteride? You might be able to still see results and not have the side effects. Are you also using minoxidil?

[wb280]

Oh wow, that serious? Its the first time i heard of such...or could it be other med u r taking?

[Blake Bloxham]

House of Cards,

 

You've been taking Proscar for a year and just started noticing the side effects? Have you considered discussing this issue with a physician (perhaps your primary care doctor)? Please, keep us updated on your situation!

[j1j9j85]

Finesteride raises free testosterone as it prevents its conversion to DHT. This then results in increased conversion of testosterone to oestrogen which then raises SHBG and the action of the increased oestrogen suppresses natural testosterone production!!!

 

natural test production gets switched off in the presence of high oestrogen as this is the only way the body can deal with reducing oestrogen!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i would advise you to get full blood tests done with focus on SHBG,Oestrogen,Testosterone,Free testosterone, and androgen levels.

 

when you have these results after a year or more usage of finesteride i would expect to see raised SHBG,Oestrogen and lower free test and serum test levels.

 

continue usage of finesestride gets bloods done.

 

then all you may have to do is lower your oestrogen level which will lower SHBG numbers and this will raise free testosterone and switch back on natural test production due to the suppresive oestrogen being not present.

 

you can lower oestrogen by use of arimidex or an AI but only do this with the guidance of you doctor and after bloods confirm the above.......!

 

Just by lowering oestrogen if its high will stop the crying and make you feel like a man again........!!!!!!!!!!!

[Danielkiwi]

interesting thoughts J. It looks like you know what you are talking about..can you please explain what is SHBG..also, what causes ED issues..is it the lower test levels or lower DHT levels

[Swimmy]

Finasteride - inhibits production of neurosteroids by blocking everything down the 5-alpha reductase chain of hormone metabolites, so brain fog, anxiety, depression can occur.

 

If you stick with propecia. Take DIM (Diindolylmethane) to metabolize excess estrogen.

 

 

The best route is to get some blood tests and post your results.

[Danielkiwi]

Hi Swimmy

 

I appreciate your inputs but would like to know your qualifications for offering this advice. Are you a doctor or you just know this through research. It would be interesting to see if any doctors recommended on this site can chime in!!!

[j1j9j85]

interesting thoughts J. It looks like you know what you are talking about..can you please explain what is SHBG..also, what causes ED issues..is it the lower test levels or lower DHT levels

 

SHBG is sex hormone binding globulin. This is increased by the body when oestrogen is high. It binds to oestrogen thus making it unavailable to the body.

 

The only down side is that when oestrogen is high testosterone is going to be supressed as mentioned in my previouse post.

 

With high levels of SHBG, testosterone will also bind along with oestrogen thus furthering the depleation of free testosterone available.

 

In time due to finesteride the HPTA axis will be unbalanced and oestrogen will go unchecked increasing in amount. the body will then have to shut down test production and increase SHBG levels to bring the oestrogen down to normal range......

 

the only problem is when natural test production decreases due to high oestrogen so to does serum test and then also free test which is more important.

 

The finesteride also prevents what free test that is availabe from converting to DHT which is 5x more androgenic than testosterone.

 

This is why men get ED and breast formation bloating and feminisation on finest and dutas.

 

its due to a combo that involves the unbalance of homeostasis/endocrine systems and thus the HPTA axis being off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

you will expect to see, on bloods!!!

 

high Oestrogen

high SHBG

low free test

low base level test

low androgen levels

 

this combo above will lead to decreased erections sex drive and boating and crying etc.

 

obviously this is very general and people differ but on a whole this is what i would expect to see so there for i suggest any one having problems due to dht blockers should have bloods then if they show the above pattern think about taking arimidex of .5mg twice a week. to decrease high oetrogen levels then wait to see if natural test increases naturally in the presence of reduced oestrogen.... and this should improve some syptoms when hormone levels are more balanced............

 

check with your DR before using any medication as oestrogen blockers when used incorrectly can reduce oestrogen to much and this will lead to even more problems as males also need adequate oestrogen levels also.... and you will be back to square one!

 

always consult your DR and have blood tests.:confused:

[j1j9j85]

i too would also like to have some qualified advice on this,

 

as i have been conferring with an expert on a bodybuilding site who has vast exeriance helping individuals suffering shut down due to hormone abuse.... and has alot of knowledge in refference to hormone inbalances.......

 

he has been helping an ever increasing wave of finesteride users coming on looking ofr help with blood test results....

 

i followed a case he worked on where he advised a member suffering the usual problems of finesteride on how to resore his hormone balance levels and to date he his course of action is working and had worked!!!!!

 

the individual posted blood results and they where consistant with the kind of thing you can expect to see and what i posted in my previouse thread??

 

the problem is i believe many cosmetic or hairtransplant dr dont have excessive experiance in the endocrine system.

 

which is why and endo would be more suitable but they need to see blood results:)

[j1j9j85]

Please see below, i got it off wikipedia to emphasize how excess oestrogen ass you get with dht blockers results in the symptoms many men get from finest use? you do the maths. i guarantee long term users blood results will back this theory up?

 

 

 

Usage for men

 

Arimidex has proven effective in the off-label use of reducing estrogens (in particular and more importantly, estradiol) in men. Excess estradiol in men can cause http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benign_prostatic_hyperplasia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia,'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia,'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia,'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia, and symptoms of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypogonadism. Some http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsperson and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodybuilding will also use anastrozole as a part of their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steroid_cycle to reduce and prevent symptoms of excess estrogens; in particular, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gynecomastia and water retention.

Study data currently suggest that dosages of 0.5 mg to 1 mg a day reduce serum estradiol by about 50% in men, which differs from the typical reduction in postmenopausal women. However the reduction may be different for men with grossly elevated estradiol (clinical data are currently lacking).

[Danielkiwi]

wow..all that is scary stuff!!! What kind of doctor should be the right one for consultation..I am thinking a Urologist. Is that a safe bet

[mahhong]

wow..all that is scary stuff!!! What kind of doctor should be the right one for consultation..I am thinking a Urologist. Is that a safe bet

 

If you want to discuss the hormonal implications of finasteride in more detail an endocrinologist would probably be a better bet.

[j1j9j85]

Simply go to your family DR and ask for blood tests targeting the areas, i mentioned in my previouse thread and they will advise you? if there is an unbalance present??!

[Johnny_B]

Take this advice....it is sound advice.

 

Go to your family doctor or asked to be referred to an endocrinoligist. This is not bad advice at all. As the man says, homostasis is our body's way of balancing things or ultimately survival. An unbalanced endocrine system can have some pretty harsh repercussions.

 

Qualified or a learned bodybuilder, either way, its good advice.

 

Symptoms of low test may certainly include brain fog, fatigue, depression etc

 

Many bodybuilders coming of test result in this oestrogen rebound and a good PCT is necessary.

 

A very intersting post and response.

 

I'm old skool so arimidex is new to me.

 

I take it Clomid/Tamoxifen Citrate would also assist?

 

Is Arimidex superior?

 

This is an area that should be openly discussed and debated on forum sites as it post AAS use has been. How much research is there into long term use of fin'.....

 

Best to arm yourselves with knowledge and be open minded.

[Johnny_B]

Oh..isn't a side-effect of arminidex, hair-loss?

[j1j9j85]

Take this advice....it is sound advice.

 

Go to your family doctor or asked to be referred to an endocrinoligist. This is not bad advice at all. As the man says, homostasis is our body's way of balancing things or ultimately survival. An unbalanced endocrine system can have some pretty harsh repercussions.

 

Qualified or a learned bodybuilder, either way, its good advice.

 

Symptoms of low test may certainly include brain fog, fatigue, depression etc

 

Many bodybuilders coming of test result in this oestrogen rebound and a good PCT is necessary.

 

A very intersting post and response.

 

I'm old skool so arimidex is new to me.

 

I take it Clomid/Tamoxifen Citrate would also assist?

 

Is Arimidex superior?

 

This is an area that should be openly discussed and debated on forum sites as it post AAS use has been. How much research is there into long term use of fin'.....

 

Best to arm yourselves with knowledge and be open minded.

 

 

 

 

 

arimidex is an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase_inhibitor, which means it directly stops the conversion of the excess free test as a result of taking finest or dht blockers in to oestrogen.

 

clomid and nolvadex are SERMS Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators but yes tamoxifen will do the same job just via a diff pathway.

 

the difference between adex and the serms is that serms act on estrogen receptors there for they have a different varied result in different tissue bases around the body there for a more varied unpredictable result.....adex simply directly stops estrogen coversion. as opposed to blocking the estrogen receptors.

 

 

adex only causes hair loss in female cancer patiants very rarely in men and its mostly temp due to hormonal shifts shedding similar to when you start taking dht blockers.

 

all i can suggest is to get bloods done and post the results an address any inbalnces if any are present via simple meds!