Proscar erection problems

[mrsportsy]

I took proscar for a while and started to lose my erection during sex. I am not sure if this actually due to the drug or because I know that this side effect is possible and is in the back of my head. My friend who took it experienced the same thing. I just looked at this website and it said that 18.5% of men experience impotence.

 

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=LlF8APEkh-E

 

What do you guys think?

[mrsportsy]

I took proscar for a while and started to lose my erection during sex. I am not sure if this actually due to the drug or because I know that this side effect is possible and is in the back of my head. My friend who took it experienced the same thing. I just looked at this website and it said that 18.5% of men experience impotence.

 

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=LlF8APEkh-E

 

What do you guys think?

[mrsportsy]

I didn't mean to post that link, even though it is a cool video if you want to watch. This is the link.

 

http://prostate.emedtv.com/proscar/proscar-sexual-side-effects.html

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Mr Sporty,

 

You and Spex are both right. Consult your urologist. I would bet that if you stick with the medicine for a few weeks that the side effect goes away...mostly.

 

Only you and your urologist can determine if the side effect continues, whether the benefits of proscar outweigh this side effect; and if viagra is indicated.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[Abby]

And if that fails man then try a shot of Viagra youll be like a rampant lion or a bull in a china shop causing havoc LOL".

[latinlotus]

Spex is right! It is in your head.

I have been taking Propecia for 10 months. No problem whatsoever! I think the low # of people who experience side effects of Propecia tend to be very vocal, while the vast majority (over 98%) of Propecia users who have no problem would not shout out loud this fact.

[latinlotus]

I forgot to add, Propecia/Proscar actually increased my erection and sex drive.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Latinlotus,

 

By blocking DHT production, your testosterone may actually increase abit. Although I had that side effect none of us want, my bench press went up while I was taking propecia. Again, I have no idea if it was in my head or real.

 

When I discontinued the med, my hair worsened, my benchpress slowly came down, but that pesky side effect was gone.

 

Hard to tell. Everyone is different.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[latinlotus]

By blocking DHT production, your testosterone may actually increase abit.

 

well this may explain why the NHL has Propecia on its banned list of drug. It may give some advantages to the athlete.

[JohnS]

Originally posted by latinlotus:

By blocking DHT production, your testosterone may actually increase abit.

 

well this may explain why the NHL has Propecia on its banned list of drug. It may give some advantages to the athlete.

 

Incorrect. It is a banned substance in sports, because increased DHT is used as an indicator of steroid use. Finasteride is used to mask steroid use and because of this, it is a banned substance.

 

Though testosterone levels increase transiently when you begin finasteride it becomes negligible over time as extra Test is converted to estradiol via aromatase. This conversion to estradiol (estrogen) coupled to a decrease in DHT, an estrogen antagonist, is speculated to play a role in side effects such as gynecomastia and other problems such as erections, testicular pain etc.

 

Bottom line, athletic performance suffers when inhibitng DHT, since the small increase, ie 15% in Test does not nearly make up for the 70% or more decrease in DHT, which by the way is at least 3x more anabolic than Test to say nothing about the higher estrogen levels which hamper athletic performance even more.

[latinlotus]

JohnS:

Right on the mark answer.

[Take a chance]

The whole idea of a hair transplant is that its permament. Am i the only one that doesn't feel comfortable taking propecia for the rest of my life??? How do people deal with this.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Take a chance,

 

There is the additional benefit with proscar/propecia of prostate health, thus lots of guys in their 50's and on, get on and stay on proscar for decades.

 

But, there is some controversy that early studies suggested that while the incidence of prostate cancer was decreased with proscar, the cancers that did develop were more aggressive. Various propecia reps have told me that is not true with longer studies, but something for a patient and doctor to discuss.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[Rick055]

@ dr. lindsey - why did you d/c finasteride if you were having success with it? I understand it was the appearance that looked worse, relative to the prostate tissue finasteride had shrunk that made them appear to have a higher gleason score. Where are the studies?

 

@ John S. - I agree with everything you say except that DHT is more anabolic than test. While I believe DHT is much more androgenic than testosterone, I believe testosterone is more anabolic than DHT.

 

I use finasteride along with a-dex, among other things, and have no sides thus far. In fact, I'd say my sex drive is increased.

[JohnS]

Originally posted by dr. lindsey:

Take a chance,

 

There is the additional benefit with proscar/propecia of prostate health, thus lots of guys in their 50's and on, get on and stay on proscar for decades.

 

But, there is some controversy that early studies suggested that while the incidence of prostate cancer was decreased with proscar, the cancers that did develop were more aggressive. Various propecia reps have told me that is not true with longer studies, but something for a patient and doctor to discuss.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

 

Dr Lindsey,

 

Perhaps this info will assist in your understanding of the finasteride/prostate cancer relationship as per Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Cancer..this is their newest info

 

BTW, I would not believe anything a pharmaceutical rep told you normally, they are worse than used car salesmen!

 

 

Studies Support Use of Prostate Cancer Prevention Drug

 

 

 

 

 

Recent research revealed that the drug finasteride, commonly used to treat enlarged prostates, decreases the risk of prostate cancer by nearly 25 percent. When the original results of the study, known as the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial, were initially released in 2003, the good news was tempered by the fact that the study also revealed a small but statistically significant increase in the number of aggressive, high-grade prostate tumors in the men from the study who were taking finasteride. But two new analyses of the study's data show that finasteride decreases the risk of all types of prostate cancer, even for those men with high-grade tumors.

 

Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial

Sponsored by the National Cancer Institute, the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial (PCPT) was designed to determine if finasteride could prevent prostate cancer in older men. Available in both brand-name and generic forms, finasteride works by blocking the conversion of the hormone testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, a hormone that fuels the growth of all prostate cancers. The drug was developed to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), a condition affecting older men in which the prostate enlarges, making urination difficult. Begun in 1993, the randomized, multicenter study followed approximately 19,000 men aged 55 and older, half taking finasteride pills on a daily basis, the other half taking a placebo. Neither the study participants nor their physicians knew who was taking finasteride or the inactive placebo.

 

The study was halted early in March 2003 when it was determined through the use of annual PSA screenings and digital rectal exams that men taking finasteride were 25 percent less likely to develop prostate cancers than men taking placebos. The results were as follows: 18 percent of men taking finasteride developed prostate cancer versus 24 percent of men taking placebo.

 

Troubling High-Grade Tumor Results

A note of discord was introduced, however, when it was determined that while finasteride reduced the overall risk of prostate cancer, it also appeared to cause a slight increase in the incidence of the high-grade forms of the disease, which are defined as tumors with Gleason scores of 7 to 10. (The Gleason grading system characterizes the aggressiveness of prostate cancer, providing an estimate of the cancer's potential to grow and spread to other parts of the body, where it is more difficult to treat successfully.) The increase in high-grade tumors -- 6.4 percent of the men in the finasteride group versus 5.1 percent of the men taking placebo -- was considered small but significant.

 

As a result, few physicians recommended using finasteride as a prostate cancer prevention drug, basing this decision on the belief that the drug was preventing harmless prostate cancers that would never require treatment while potentially encouraging the deadlier versions. Still, the study's researchers wondered if the increased number of high-grade tumors was due to the fact that finasteride was shrinking the prostate, making it easier for doctors to find aggressive, high-grade tumors during needle biopsies.

 

"These important studies put to rest our original concerns that finasteride could cause more harm than good."

-- Peter Scardino, MD, Chair, Department of Surgery

 

New Studies, New Thinking

In the years following the PCPT, two separate studies conducted by investigators both inside and outside that trial have sought to clarify the issue. The results from both were published in the May issue of Cancer Prevention Research.

 

The studies analyzed 500 pathology samples that were removed during prostatectomy from the more than 2,000 patients in the PCPT diagnosed with prostate cancer. (The majority of patients in the study diagnosed with any grade of prostate cancer opted to have the cancer surgically removed, in a procedure called a prostatectomy. This allowed pathologists to compare the "true rate" of high-grade tumors, compared with the grade assigned through biopsy at original diagnosis.) Both studies found that those men in the PCPT who received finasteride had no overall increase in high-grade disease. Among those men treated for the full seven years of the study, the investigators found no significant difference in results: 92 men in the finasteride group developed high-grade tumors compared with 89 men in the placebo group.

 

"These important studies put to rest our original concerns that finasteride could cause more harm than good," says Peter Scardino, Chair of the Department of Surgery at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center and a surgeon specializing in prostate cancer. "We were delighted to see such convincing confirmation that prostate cancer can be prevented safely."

 

The Food and Drug Administration has yet to approve the use of finasteride for prostate cancer prevention. However, doctors can prescribe drugs for off-label use when appropriate. Men interested in considering the use of finasteride as a prostate cancer preventative should discuss the issue with their physician.

 

Dr. Scardino advises that men over the age of 50 who are at increased risk of prostate cancer -- African-American men, those with a family history of the disease, or those with an elevated PSA test but a negative biopsy -- should consider taking finasteride or a related drug after discussing the risks and benefits with their physician.

 

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/86364.cfm

[JohnS]

Originally posted by Rick055:

 

@ John S. - I agree with everything you say except that DHT is more anabolic than test. While I believe DHT is much more androgenic than testosterone, I believe testosterone is more anabolic than DHT.

 

 

 

It is more anabolic, ie protein sparing than testosterone. As far as androgenic, it is also much more androgenic as opposed to testosterone.

 

One other point, DHT is of paramount importance in the area of neurological efficiency, ie recruitment of muscle fibers as well as adaptive response ie recuperation.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Ive been taking propecia Mon Wed Fri for a year and a half and havent had any problem gaining strengh or muscle.

Ive been powerlifting for years and was at a sticking point for a few months and broke through that while on fin.

My numbers continue to increase on a weekly basis.

I do go on and off on clen and tamox.

Eat abot 250 grams of protein a day.

Maybe just lowering dht and not destroying it is the answer.

[thanatopsis_awry]

PGP, 250 "measly" grams? My quadrupple-order of eggwhite flatbreads at Dunkin'Donuts every morning practically matches that!!!!! I'm in the middle of my 1000rep bicep-curl routine so I should prolly' get back to...

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

You the man!

You got the hair ,now the megapump routine going.

Actually 250 is considered low to alot of people especially when I almost weigh that.

Just put down about 75 grams with the grilled tuna steaks and brown rice.

Got to get stronger to combat my grappling partners quickness

[thanatopsis_awry]

Nice, very nice.....tuna steaks are hella good. Best all-around fish to grill as far as I'm concerned. You weigh 250, eh? Must have some pretty beefy lifts to boot. I have a grappling partner who is about 240-245; not super lean, but not fat at all and pretty jacked; former wrestler. With the gi or clothes I make him my rag doll but shirtless or with a rash-guard type shirt I have to be on my A-game or else it's a nightmare for me.

 

Now if only he would get in a boxing ring w/ me, shirtless or otherwise....

[Rick055]

Originally posted by JohnS:

Originally posted by Rick055:

 

@ John S. - I agree with everything you say except that DHT is more anabolic than test. While I believe DHT is much more androgenic than testosterone, I believe testosterone is more anabolic than DHT.

 

 

I'm still not convinced and amawaiting a response from a doctor. In the meantime:

 

"So at least as far as muscle is concerned, testosterone is the primary active androgen. This is not to say that administering exogenous DHT is not without any anabolic effect. It actually does have some anabolic activity in the muscle, albeit significantly weaker than that of an equal amount of testosterone. This is due to its quick breakdown by 3a-HSD into the weak metabolite 5alpha-androstan-3a,17b-diol. If this enzyme were somehow blocked, it is likely that DHT would exhibit very potent anabolic effects on muscle."

 

It is more anabolic, ie protein sparing than testosterone. As far as androgenic, it is also much more androgenic as opposed to testosterone.

 

One other point, DHT is of paramount importance in the area of neurological efficiency, ie recruitment of muscle fibers as well as adaptive response ie recuperation.

 

Have any sources handy? I'd really like a definitive answer for a couple of reasons.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

To clarify, I stopped propecia due to the side effect we all worry about. I did have a nice cosmetic change while on the medicine and have blogged about that elsewhere on this site.

 

I agree that drug reps come in all flavors of honesty. This info was repeated by one of my colleagues who is a urologist down the street, and who is the base player in my band.

 

So to summarize: I think propecia is a great option for folks. I had a side effect and that was a deal breaker for me, but most people don't have any problems. I don't know if long term use has any relation to cancer prevention or high grade selection and I tell patients about this. Everyone over 40 ought to be getting a prostate exam yearly and should notify their practitioner that they are on propecia/proscar.

 

Interesting path this discussion evolved into.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by dr. lindsey:

To clarify, I stopped propecia due to the side effect we all worry about. I did have a nice cosmetic change while on the medicine and have blogged about that elsewhere on this site.

 

I agree that drug reps come in all flavors of honesty. This info was repeated by one of my colleagues who is a urologist down the street, and who is the base player in my band.

 

So to summarize: I think propecia is a great option for folks. I had a side effect and that was a deal breaker for me, but most people don't have any problems. I don't know if long term use has any relation to cancer prevention or high grade selection and I tell patients about this. Everyone over 40 ought to be getting a prostate exam yearly and should notify their practitioner that they are on propecia/proscar.

 

Interesting path this discussion evolved into.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

 

Doc,

 

I had my first prostate exam this past Tuesday, as the local Adventist hospital here offers them up for free once a year. Two urologist were on duty, and I picked the older Italian doctor, because the other one is associated with the doctor's office I'm prospecting for their 401k business. Anyway, the urologist said, in his accent, "Your prostate is very small....", but I felt he was saying it sort of complimentary. I then told him of my proscar use and he said to double my psa that I'll get in the mail. But, a small prostate is pretty good, right?

 

I played in this cool college band in college but I let my baldness (and talent) get the better of me and gave it up. I was singer, and I sort of strummed an acoustic guitar but I hardly knew a note. My claim to fame is, in 1988 or so, when we played fraternity parties or the local small pub / bar, I would get request shouted for the song "Hello, I love you". Our bass player and drummer are still doing it. Matter of fact, in July they played at a luau at our old frat house. I was on vacation so I didn't get to see them but I'm not sure a reunion would've taken place anyway. One of them moonlights as a pharma rep for Norvartis and the other works for AT&T.

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Hey DeWayne, if you are in DC area, you are welcome to sing with our band. We do play a few songs by Rush, and that type of exam you had Tuesday can really help one hit the high notes while singing.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I do a kick ass rocking karma chameleon, and jitterbug,and if the crowd is to my liking Ill finish with girl you know its true.

Can I come?