Medical hair restorations, Denver, CO.

[Byehair]

First of all to Bill, I am not trying to start a fight.

I was merely making a point that (in my opinion) BSpot's response to Andrew was rude, offensive and controlling. It was not a welcoming way to warm up to a new poster.

I have no motive other than to comment on BSpot's response.

Now you come on and tell me to "contribute constructively"

Sorry, but since I didn't join the "love fest", doesn't mean what I posted wasn't constructive.

 

Hairbank, I realize posters come on from time to time with a hidden agenda. It just seems like Andrew was "shook down".

This seems more like a fraternity, rather than a community.

If I wish to give my opinion, I will.

I was not "smearing" anyone.

I do not need you to tell me to move on.

 

I realize BSpot is a value to this board, but I just felt like he came on way too strong. I'm sure many posters would have been intimidated by his approach and moved on, never to be heard from or seen again.

Thank god Andrew hung around and will continue to share his reults with others.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Byehair,

 

I appreciate that you say are not here to start a fight as you say...and if this is true...hopefully you will listen to what I have to say. Firstly I DO want to say that your post does have some merit...I agree that B Spot's skepticism of Andrew's intentions drove him to respond in a way which he shouldn't have that came across brisk and even harsh. I don't disagree with what you said...it was just simply your approach was harsh and your timing was off.

 

More descriptively...

 

Here are reasons why your post did not appear constructive:

 

1. Your use of a curse word to show your frustration. I quote: "Give me a F*ing break!"

2. Your approach was harsh and commanding. Example: "Chill out". A change of approach would have been more constructive

3. If you posted your feedback while the argument or conflict was still unresolved, your point of view would be constructive...to show B spot that he came across too strong. Your post was after the fact...after it was reconciled

 

You used the "water under the bridge" to throw salt water in B Spot's eyes. That's not constructive my friend!

 

And I have to say...if you are not happy with the way our "fraternity" or community is run...why have you lurked for a year now? And why did you decide to post after a year? I can't know your motives...i can only assume. So far we've assumed the worst...hopefully not.

 

And man...I really don't mean this part as a threat....but I'll warn you ahead of time (if you care)...people who prove in their posts over and over again that they are here to start a fight don't last long.

 

And let me reiterate that there is a huge difference between hard debates and just being mean and nasty. Many including myself have disagreed and argued with doctors, clinics, and other posters, to attempt to further our education and help others. We have no problem fighting the good fight when necessary. But the good fight will be constructive.

 

Bill

[the B spot]

I have read these forums over the past year and have always wondered why so few people choose to post here.

It has became more obvious to me now after seeing AndrewYoung attacked by BSpot immediately after posting.

Bspot accuses him of not knowing how many grafts he got.

BSpot claims the doc does 2 or three surgeries a day.

BSpot was proven wrong by Andrew on both accounts.

BSpot maybe you should chill a bit, and then these boards wouldn't be so exclusive to just a few posters.

Yes you have had 2 transplants, but does that really make you the expert on everything?

Also telling the poster to "stop posting" about his glowing results until he puts up more info.

Give me a F*ing break!

 

 

Obviously in the year or so you have been lurking, you failed to see the many poor results and terrible scars our balding brothers have endured at the hands of hairmills and independent quacks alike.

 

Do I know that every doc at MHR is terrible?

Absolutely not.

Do I think every MHR patient is here to "promote" these hairmills?

Absolutely not.

 

I keep having to reiterate this every so often to a "concerned citizen" filled with self-righteous zeal---- The reason this site was founded was to steer the UNEDUCATED to independent docs who care about being held to a higher standard of care.

 

This does not apply to hairmills like MHR or Bosley.

 

Do you think for a moment that Pat or any other of us hardcore members would allow Andrew to continue to sing the praises of MHR without a reality check?

 

Not on your life pal.

 

I have done my job in this thread, which is to cast enough doubt on MHR to force whomever reads this to research their options a bit deeper, that's all.

 

My posts usually find shills or plants who "suddenly pop up" in an attempt to discredit or challenge me on these issues.

 

Let me save you the trouble.

 

Your not going to do either of these things.

 

In addition, your not going to find much support trying to defend a patient of MHR who has a recent session and has not produced any results.

 

I look forward to your new found involvement in the site.

 

J

[hairbank]

Originally posted by Byehair:

 

Hairbank, I realize posters come on from time to time with a hidden agenda. It just seems like Andrew was "shook down".

This seems more like a fraternity, rather than a community.

If I wish to give my opinion, I will.

I was not "smearing" anyone.

I do not need you to tell me to move on.

 

 

 

I guess I'm wondering why you posted at all ? The post wasn't constructive, it was an accusation that another poster here and basically the issue had already been resolved. Why bring it up again?

 

The post your referencing, I looked it up and it was Andrew's first post...........no pics.........a proponent of MHR (which has been proven to be marginal, at best)..............B spot may have seemed harsh, but he was trying to protect the sites integrity with his reponse and questions. I'll bet in AndrewYoung's short time here if you ask him he would be in agreement.

 

This isn't a "fraternity" as you referenced, just a hair loss forum where we share to help others. What has lead you to believe otherwise, may I ask?

 

No, I'm not the sites owner/administrator and yes, you can state your opinion and move on or not. If the only thing you wish to accomplish here is to start fights I'm sure you'll be removed in no time.

 

Stick around and get past this, maybe you'll find out we're not so bad after all?

[nobuzz4me]

[i realize BSpot is a value to this board, but I just felt like he came on way too strong. I'm sure many posters would have been intimidated by his approach and moved on, never to be heard from or seen again.

Thank god Andrew hung around and will continue to share his reults with others.

 

 

 

Byehair,

 

We are all big boys here and anyone here who gets intimidated by a forum response might just be a little thin skinned. Besides, they worked it out and Andrew was cool with it, why stir the pot?

 

Everyone is welcome here, even those like me who did not go to a coalition doc and had previous work with what might be considered a hair mill chain (Elliot and True).

 

You are welcome here, we are all in this for the same reason, share ideas, info and give some guidance to those looking for advice.

 

BSpot looks and sounds intimidating, but once his new hair grows in, he will turn into Sanjaya!

[the B spot]

Well in one thread Bill is claiming I kiss boys and now I am turning into Sanjaya!!!!!!!

 

)#$#$@#$@# What did I ever do to you guys!!!!!

 

Damn you evil hairloss sufferers!!!!!!!!

 

[hairbank]

Originally posted by the B spot:

Well in one thread Bill is claiming I kiss boys and now I am turning into Sanjaya!!!!!!!

 

)#$#$@#$@# What did I ever do to you guys!!!!!

 

Damn you evil hairloss sufferers!!!!!!!!

 

 

Well, B, if you're going to have Sanjaya's hair, can you at least sing better ??

 

Hey' where are your updates at anyway, my friend? How's that new mane coming in??

[Bill - Seemiller]

B...

 

For what it's worth...I think Sanjaya probably does kiss guys .

 

ROTFL

 

Bill

[Byehair]

My posts usually find shills or plants who "suddenly pop up" in an attempt to discredit or challenge me on these issues.

 

 

BSpot - thanks for the encouragement, but I am neither a "plant or a shill".

[YoungGuy]

You are, however, annoying folks. Byehair, you're the guy who watches a fight, then when everything is resolved comes in and goes "that's RIGHT! bitch!" while the original participants are standing there scratching their heads wondering who you are and why you're there.

 

"If I wish to give my opinion, I will." Yeah, but if your opinion is to tell others that they can't give theirs, what does that make you? Sometimes, when everyone tells you that you're wrong, it's not a conspiracy - you're really wrong Give it up & move on.

[YoungGuy]

Oh, I forgot the main reason I read through this thread. Dr. Pauls seems to have done a good job on AndrewYoung's HT, I'd love to be able to watch the results here as months go by. Hope Andrew updates the blog monthly

 

It's always good to find out about another great doc in a world full of the not-so-good ones.

[Byehair]

Youngguy,

 

Sorry but that was about the most moronic post I could imagine someone writing.

 

I never said someone couldn't give their opinion.

I was stating that I thought the opinion was somewhat out of line.

 

And sorry to burst your bubble, but Bill said my original post "had some merit".

 

So try again!

[AndrewYoung]

I love logging on so late because by the time I get here, I can see all the stir. Wow. I didn't know what to make of all this. I didn't mean to cause such a commotion.

 

Here are a couple of my thoughts, since I (aong with B Spot) was what this was all about.

 

I was taken aback by B's intial comments. And I do still take offense at him calling my doc part of a hair mill. Of course if I like what I got, I am going to defend her rep here. If someone can show me where she hacked someone else, then I'll shut it. But what makes her any different than any of the other places. Someone made the comment about an indy being a hairmill. Does a hairmill mean the number of patients they take on a given day? I saw the board fellas and she is no hair mill. Just another practice that takes in one or perhaps two procedures a day.

 

K, now all that said, I do understand all that B was saying. It did come off as a bit brash and I wish he'd come with a slightly less harsh angle but, hey, I understand that this board is to protect us all from bad docs. Perhaps the Boz and MHR are just good targets cause they are chain established and will have the good with the bad. But they are big boys too. They get the good rep with the bad (admittedly, here it is mostly bad). I am not making any blanket statements on MHR saying they are all good, I was simply commenting on my doc and the people that I had do my procedure.

 

Byehair, I appreciate what you are saying. In fact when I was first attacked this way, my thought was F this. I don't need that (oh crap, now I've used an shortened expletive too, sorry Bill j/k). But in reality, I am big enough to understand where it is coming from and in fact, I just want to set the record straight just a bit. That is my reason for coming back - plus these regs know a thing or two - okay maybe about two dozen or more - about HT that I still need to learn. I appreciate the input. I want honest feedback on how it looks from seasoned contributors. I also want to give props to the Doc if props are due and give them the big Doodoo (see I didn't explete - is that a word?)if they deserve that too. I appreciate your defense, really, I do and I do understand your point as well. But to be honest, your response was a bit of an attack back that wasn't really necessary either.

 

Agreed? Friends? Can we all just get along? Singalong anyone? Hopefully this puts this to bed. Seeing how late it is, it should put me to bed too. Man, this not working thing, having my head punctured 3500 times and planted, medicated, sleeping upright thing has put me on a weird schedule!

[the B spot]

Andrew---- the point of my post is that YOU have no idea how your work is going to look in 10-12 months.

 

You are happy with the intial care you received, and for that I am most happy for you, hands down!!

 

However, you have to admit that until your results are posted, it is simply YOUR appraisal of the work.

Quite frankly, the work of a chain that does not possess the greatest record for patient care and results over the past 10 years.

 

I hope from the bottom of my heart that you look fabulous buddy!!!!!

 

I guarantee that if your Dr. Pauls is as good as you say she is, she will not be employed by MHR for a long time.

 

Follow this link to see a really good Doc from MHR who resisted the pressure of the "hairmill"

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=143210

The ONLY reason this Doc is recommended is he allowed Pat to visit his clinic and observe his methods.

 

MHR will not allow this. In fact, I have heard that Dr. Leavitt (founder of MHR) will not even look or address Pat, due to his paranoia of the internet leaking information about their practices.

 

You see, information and education will set us free. We deal in consistant results over an extended period of time and as recently seen with Dr. DeYarman, if a Doc does not measure up, he or she is unwelcome and unsupported here.

 

I will tell you this..... If your results are fantastic and your incision scar looks great, I will be the first in line to tell you you look great and I am happy for you.

 

However, one or two great results does not make a Doctor great.

 

Perhaps you could call Dr. Pauls and ask her to post a collage of her work?

Better yet, see if a visit from Pat will be allowed.

 

In any event, regardless of your choice of Doc, your a fellow balding brother--- and that means I wish you the best and I want you to know that I will be here (and MANY) others to share in your journey.

 

Take Care,

J

[YoungGuy]

I admit I was a little apprehensive when I saw your first post as well. I'm not sure if you're aware, but there have been instances in the past where clinics/doctors had people working for them come on the board and lie.

 

When there was a thread highlighting a bad job, or a series of bad jobs a particular hack doc did those folks would pretend to be real patients of the hack and post "glowing reviews", trying to create confusion or better yet, an appearance that the clinic was not bad but rather under debate. This was misleading to folks who came on the board to learn and you can see how it could lead someone into an unenviable situation.

 

Simultaneously, MHR and the other chains have bad results more often than not. Therefore, you can see how your first post praising MHR could have been, and was, taken the wrong way. Some of the posters here may have jumped on ya a bit hard, but that's only because they wanted to protect people doing their research from what seemed like an unethical move by a chain with a reputation for unethical conduct.

 

Once it was shown that you were, in fact, an actual patient who was not only not on MHR's payroll but who has in fact found a good doctor in MHR, things returned to normal

 

I'd like to offer a quick note of thanks for being persistent and not letting us scare of off there. Now, thanks to you we know of another great doc, provided you get good growth in a few months (which I'm sure you will).

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hey everyone,

 

I think now everyone is having a good and constructive conversation . Let me state a few things that hopefully make sense...but it's still early, so we'll see

 

1. MHR is considered a hairmill because of it's overachieving marketing tactics (and over promising) with under-delivery of results, not to mention their lack of educating their patient as to what they are really getting into. So to say Dr. Paul is part of a hairmill is accurate...but that does NOT mean that Dr. Paul is a bad doctor. There are certainly doctors that have come from MHR and Bosley that inevitably are good and ethical doctors. It's just that MHR and Bosley as a WHOLE UNIT are hairmills and the majority of the people that come out of there haven't been satisfied with their results.

 

2. One of the missions of this community is to protect perspective patients and members reading these posts from marketing tactics of these hairmills or doctors that have shown that their results are inconsistent. The mission itself is a good one!

 

3. The execution of the mission isn't always presented in the best way, but we try our best. Personally, IMO, B Spot fired off a bit too quickly (don't worry bro, I still love ya) and I can certainly see why AndrewYoung took offense at the statement being that he's legit. My approach would have been different had I seen this post first...perhaps in the form of questions rather than assumptions.

 

4. BUT, in defense of the mission and its execution (including B Spot)...many core long term members including myself have seen people come here and sing praises of doctors with the intent to market those doctors and that's all. No photos are ever posted, no specifics, only "songs of praise". People here seriously need to challenge those posters to see if they are the real deal!!! People who are the real deal stick around and share their experience.

 

5. So it's a difficult balance that needs to be found between executing the mission and respecting newcomers. I admit, I don't think anyone's perfected it and I don't know if it ever will be. We have a tendency to be either too gentle or too harsh...but we do TRY to find the balance...

 

6. I do understand the temptation to sing praises before the results come in...people here do it all the time...including those who go to recommended and coalition docs. - heck, I think I've done it Ironically, nothing is really ever said about those who sing praises about how excellent the experience was directly post op for the coalition docs....probably because we expect the results will be great.

 

BUT, I think this may be a flaw in our thinking...after all Deyarman Medical Group (DMG) proved that though excellent results should be expected of a coalition doctor, it doesn't mean that they will. Don't get me wrong...there is nothing wrong with enthusiasm that we are going to have new hair...but, to sing praises before we see the results may be a little premature. This goes for EVERYONE.

 

However, there's no sense in trying to capture or squelch people's enthusiasm, but perhaps a gentle reminder to those who haven't seen their results that the real praising should and will happen after the results come in.

 

-----------

 

I believe the members of this forum do their best to help not only the people asking questions, but also the readers that come along in the future. Because of the latter, many of my posts will be pretty detailed or say things that are obvious to the poster, but maybe not so obvious to those who come later to read these posts.

 

SUMMARY:

 

1. Apprehension of new posters who sing praise of doctors not recommended on this forum should be expected because it's this apprehension when it's addressed that protects the readers and members of this community from marketing tactics of doctors who don't do quality work...hence, the MISSION.

 

2. On the other hand, we shouldn't make assumptions in our apprehension as we try to execute the mission and ultimately unwelcome newcomvers who may indeed be legit.

 

One more thing we as the regular members will have to understand...many people who get hair transplants didn't do their research first. Obviously, this is not a good idea, but some people ultimately trust these clinics because after all...they are DOCTORS right? that being said...some people who post over-generalizations may just be regurgitating what they heard from the clinic, not to market, but because they don't know any better. It is our job to question it (the mission), but also educate if they turn out legit

 

Ok, I've written too much now...

 

Good discussion.

 

Bill

 

P.S. AndrewYoung....I'm glad you decided to stick around. We certainly wish the best for you and hope you will post month to month updates.

[hairbank]

Originally posted by Bill:

executing the mission and respecting newcomers.

 

Bill,

 

Had a quick break at work, checked HTN threads, skimmed your post and thought we were going to be EXECUTING NEWCOMERS while RESPECTING our MISSION.......LOL .......I thought, wait a minute........purple Bill Clone must've got the keyboard again, that little so-and-so!

 

Brother - you have a way with words and I echo your comments above. NONE of us are perfect and, at times, we may seem to respond harshly to a new poster raving about a Doc without posting pics or backing up any part of their HT success claim. It's a fine line but one that can be walked by posting honest, sincere advice and feedback, with our ultimate concern being the those suffering with hair loss who are posting here for advice or out of concern for others.

 

There are always "issues", that's just life, personalities..etc, nothing is perfection. I do believe at HTN the majority of the posters who hang around care about the people frequenting the site AND additionally care about giving out quality information in an effort to help. We've all been on opposite sides of the fence before (and will be again), it's how we respond to each other and our ultimate intentions that separate us from many other sites out there that seem to thrive on feuds.

 

A personal bit of advice for everyone.............read your post a couple of times before hitting "post now". Put yourself in other posters' shoes and ask how you would receive the post were it coming from someone else. That's the difficult thing about email and forums............no tone of voice, body language, facial expressions.........just words which sometimes cause confusion in the ultimate meaning of a post.

 

Peace...

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hairbank...

 

Yeah, my clones went a little haywire there for a bit. I'll have to break out the hose on their a$$es. LOL

 

Thanks for the sentiments...we usually see eye to eye on many issues...not that there's anything wrong with disagreement, of course.

 

Great advice in your last paragraph...putting ourselves in their position is something that isn't always easy to do...but it's definitely a great strategy

 

Bill

[Janna]

Bill, you do have a way with words. Where you find the time to post such well thought out wisdom is beyond me.

 

B, you know I think you're awesome. You posess a lot of knowledge and passion for this industry. I too know sometimes we can all be misunderstood, or make mistakes of our own. The fact that you're such a champion for hairloss sufferers is enough for me to back you any time. In reading the original post on this thread, I can see how it can be misconstrued as a "set up" to tout an unknown doctor.

 

Hairbank, you're always another voice of reason, which I've come to appreciate with all helpful advices you give. Thanks for the good reminder and the tip on re-reading your own words.

 

Andrew,

 

I just wanted to comment on your pics since you're looking for some feedback on the work you received. In my humble opinion, the work looks very good. The incisions and grafts look to be refine FU work, and your recipient areas are nice and clean like it should be. I cannot see any reasons why you shouldn't be happy with the final results. Your donor sutures look very good as well. You are right that with big chain clinics, there are good clinics along with the bad clinics. It's a problem when you run so many clinics and different doctors, it's difficult to have quality control. I'm very happy for you that you got a good clinic. Best of luck and I look forward to following your progress.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Bill, you do have a way with words. Where you find the time to post such well thought out wisdom is beyond me.

 

Thanks Janna...I try .

 

Bill

[AndrewYoung]

Janna,

 

Thank you. I appreciate your feedback. I was going to try to do some update photos today but got so busy. I am going to make a better effort tomorrow.

 

Today was day 7 for me (like you need a day to day count) and I am so excited that my scabs are "cleaning up". With each new shower, it is looking much better. The weird thing is you can feel them coming out when you are washing, you think you've rinsed so well and then you get out of the shower and see all the little white popcorn all over your head. I didn't get shaved down so my existing hair has a way of attracting the stuff.

 

Now here is my other concern, which will be a bit more obvious when I post the update photos tomorrow. While many of the scabs are now coming loose, the hairs seem to be staying. K, cool, but I had my hair line brought down more than an inch and my shock loss is leaving me with the obvious stubble that something is new up there. I go back to work on Monday and I am really hopeful that perhaps I can blend the existing hair over and perhaps some of the transplanted hairs will decide to move on but I am getting concerned that it's going to be obvious.

 

My wife looked at me at dinner tonight, smiled and said, 'I think if you don't want people to know, I will be going a lot of places alone this summer.' I told her what all you have said - 2 weeks, maybe 3 or 4 and they will leave but I really wish I could go off to some island for a couple months and just come back.

 

K, long story to get to my point but I am wondering, if these little guys stick around, what have others done to conceal their new hairline?

[YoungGuy]

Unfortunately, there isn't a good way to hide it for the next few weeks. You need to go through a few months of looking funny before you start to look great... just the nature of the beast. Those of us who are covering up large areas that simply did not have hair before just need to accept it. Personally, I told everyone at work and all my friends/family what was going on with my bald front 1/3rd which made things much easier

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hey Andrew,

 

While things are healing and then later growing, I'd say the only way really to hide anything is to style your hair forward. You may also want to consider dermatch or toppik, to the native hairs to "thicken it up" if you are concerned about shockloss. However, don't apply any to the grafts until at least the end of week 2.

 

Your wife's statement, however isn't true...by the summer time, you should look pretty close to what you did pre-op, and by the end of the summer, you just may be experiencing some new growth . Ultimately, you will look different...because you'll have HAIR

 

Bill

[hairbank]

Just a thought, Andrew, but you may want to use a beard groomer or set of hair clippers and just "trim back" the HT hairs after 2 weeks to see if you can make them "blend" a little better with your old hairline. I know, the thought of clipping down your new hair is counterproductive, but it's just for a short while .

 

When they grow in, it likely won't be much of a problem for those whom you see every day or week as it's SUCH a slow and gradual process.

[AndrewYoung]

Thanks for the advice. Might try to trim them down. I am in on Monday morning to get my sutures out so perhaps they can help. Apparently, they have a stylist on call that comes in to help with follow up patient visits.

 

I did post some day 8 photos over on my blog. Hopefully they give you a good view of where I am at today.

 

I have to tell you a horrible experience I had today.

 

When I was looking at which photos to post, I noticed how many loose scabs I had in my existing hairs. So, after I finished posting the photos, I went up to try to gently comb thru to remove them. I hit something and blood came gushing out. I yelled to my wife who quickly grabbed a towel and ice and within ten seconds of applying some pressure and cooling it down, the bleeding completely stopped.

 

Now, I am pretty sure I wasn't being careful enough and hit an existing scab and broke it loose. My question is, is there any possible way that I lost the whole graft? I know I've heard you all say within 5 days they are set, but it hurt and bled pretty good. Perhaps I was delusional and in a panic but I could have sworn I saw a dark colored root surrounded by skin in the bloody water that I saw in the sink before my wife came with the towel. Almost like an oil well gush when they first tap it (okay so no bubblin crude came up but man did it come out hard). Has anyone ever experienced this?