Already had 1 procedure, but now you've scared me!

[rsanders36]

I had a HT done by Dr. Katona in Chicago with MHR. Everything I'm reading says not to have one done with MHR. But it's too late! I had my procedure done 13 months ago. Quite honestly, I probably didnt need it at the time. It bothered me that my hairline was no longer straight across (losing hair at the temple). Anyway, I felt like I did a lot of homework. I met with many places. I even had one surgeon tell me he wouldnt do the procedure for me even if I paid him because he didnt think I needed it. Dr. Katona placed 1,026 grafts in the temple and frontal region. He told me that I would definitely be able to tell the difference. He said it was a good time to do this, because I would never be bald. My older brother and father both have hair loss. My brother experienced his at a much earlier age. I am currently 28, and its starting to get worse. Now, not only am I losing it in the temple area, but also in the front in general. I use to "mess/spike" my hair up a year ago, but cant anymore because I've lost too much and you can see the scalp. Okay, so whats the point? Dr. Katona said that I probably have another 4000 grafts of donor hair. However, I look at the 1000 that have already been done, and I'm not happy with it. I dont even know how much of this is donor hair, and how much is mine that I will lose. I've been thinking of getting another procedure, but now I'm thinking i would be miserable if it doesnt look good. Even with the scar, I'm half tempted to shave my hair down to a stubble. Not to sound conceited, but I have always been an attractive guy. However, with my hair loss, I've lost much confidence, and I definitley think I'm not as attractive because of it (gee, king of the obvious here). Oh, and I think I was charged like $4000 for it. Anyway, I need some help/advice. Realistically, how many grafts does a guy need to cover his head? I assume I will eventually be bald like dad and was hoping to do something about it before hand. Oh, and I did my follow up in Saint Louis, and the guy here told me that its tough to do the transplant because you dont know where you're going to lose it and it's tough to place the hair in there if it has some density because they cant spread it out as well. So my question to him was, why in the heck did Dr. K tell me I was doing the right thing. Okay, this is going to sound bad but I dont even know what kind of grafts/microscope/whatever was used. Can anyone find out for me? I assumed it was the best, most advanced, and I'm sure I checked it out at the time and cant remember. Also, everyone has bad things to say about MHR so who is a good person to go with? I live in STL but dont mind traveling. Are my expectations too great? Should I get another HT with more grafts? The thing is, I have no clue how much more I'm going to lose but I know I'm not comfortable with the amount that is there now so I cant imagine what I will feel in another 6 months. I would say I've noticed a drastic difference in the past 6 months. When I had my operation, I couldnt see my scalp. I was just concerned about the temple area. Okay, I know I posted a lot here but I would greatly appreciate any/all the help you guys can offer. This is truely ruining my life!

[rsanders36]

I had a HT done by Dr. Katona in Chicago with MHR. Everything I'm reading says not to have one done with MHR. But it's too late! I had my procedure done 13 months ago. Quite honestly, I probably didnt need it at the time. It bothered me that my hairline was no longer straight across (losing hair at the temple). Anyway, I felt like I did a lot of homework. I met with many places. I even had one surgeon tell me he wouldnt do the procedure for me even if I paid him because he didnt think I needed it. Dr. Katona placed 1,026 grafts in the temple and frontal region. He told me that I would definitely be able to tell the difference. He said it was a good time to do this, because I would never be bald. My older brother and father both have hair loss. My brother experienced his at a much earlier age. I am currently 28, and its starting to get worse. Now, not only am I losing it in the temple area, but also in the front in general. I use to "mess/spike" my hair up a year ago, but cant anymore because I've lost too much and you can see the scalp. Okay, so whats the point? Dr. Katona said that I probably have another 4000 grafts of donor hair. However, I look at the 1000 that have already been done, and I'm not happy with it. I dont even know how much of this is donor hair, and how much is mine that I will lose. I've been thinking of getting another procedure, but now I'm thinking i would be miserable if it doesnt look good. Even with the scar, I'm half tempted to shave my hair down to a stubble. Not to sound conceited, but I have always been an attractive guy. However, with my hair loss, I've lost much confidence, and I definitley think I'm not as attractive because of it (gee, king of the obvious here). Oh, and I think I was charged like $4000 for it. Anyway, I need some help/advice. Realistically, how many grafts does a guy need to cover his head? I assume I will eventually be bald like dad and was hoping to do something about it before hand. Oh, and I did my follow up in Saint Louis, and the guy here told me that its tough to do the transplant because you dont know where you're going to lose it and it's tough to place the hair in there if it has some density because they cant spread it out as well. So my question to him was, why in the heck did Dr. K tell me I was doing the right thing. Okay, this is going to sound bad but I dont even know what kind of grafts/microscope/whatever was used. Can anyone find out for me? I assumed it was the best, most advanced, and I'm sure I checked it out at the time and cant remember. Also, everyone has bad things to say about MHR so who is a good person to go with? I live in STL but dont mind traveling. Are my expectations too great? Should I get another HT with more grafts? The thing is, I have no clue how much more I'm going to lose but I know I'm not comfortable with the amount that is there now so I cant imagine what I will feel in another 6 months. I would say I've noticed a drastic difference in the past 6 months. When I had my operation, I couldnt see my scalp. I was just concerned about the temple area. Okay, I know I posted a lot here but I would greatly appreciate any/all the help you guys can offer. This is truely ruining my life!

[Guest]

rsanders36, as far as whether it was a mistake for you to have your first procedure with MHR, only time will tell. There seem to be many factors involved as to what seperates a good procedure from a bad one, probably too many to mention here. But from the reading I've done at this website, there seems to be a consensus that if a Doctor gives you some "pie in the sky" expectations for what a transplant can do for you, that was probably not the best doctor.

 

You are probably experiencing what I've noticed following the 3 procedures I've had, which is the native hairs you have continuing to fall out in the region where you had the transplant. This was hard for me to handle because as the native hairs continued to thin, and finally fell out, it was taking me back to a thin look. It does'nt mean that the transplants were not effective, it's just the continuing hairloss.

 

You may have read my thread on considering a 4th procedure where I'm asking the guys here to advise me about having another procedure. Many of them caution me about further hair loss and the reality that my donor hair would not be enough to cover the entire top from front scalp to crown. So I've had to come to terms with prioritizing where to put the remaining donor hair I have, in the front and hairline, or midscalp back to crown, where I'm starting to see more thinning. The front is definitely more important to me, so I'm just going to focus on that in a future procedure and just try to prevent more hairloss in the back if I can with propecia and other misc. hairloss fighting remedies.

 

You said that you used to spike your hair. Unfortunately, when your hair is thinner, you pretty much have to avoid any "wet look" or gelled hair styles. At least that's the case for me. Otherwise, the gel causes the hairs to strand together, revealing more scalp and kind of "higlighting" the hairloss you have. From your comment, it's obvious that you've already noticed this.

 

As far as another procedure for you, it's best to plan for the worst case scenario: continuing to lose hair over the entire scalp back to the crown. You've just gotta decide what's more important to cover: front or back. Maybe you might have enough donor hair to cover most of your scalp, but pretty sparsely. Or maybe you might want to focus most of your donor in front, with just a little further back for some coverage. Only your doctor can really help you know what your options are. It's just a matter of coming up with your own strategy that you feel best about.

 

I guess one advantage of waiting to do another procedure is that you can see how bad the damage is finally going to be, and then have more donor hair to work with. In other words, if you use up most or all of your donor hair in the front, and then continue to lose hair in midscalp/back/crown, you would'nt have anything left to work with back there. It depends on what you want more, some hair in the crown, or a thicker front/hairline. Best of luck to you.

[HairBeThere]

rsanders, Your experiance and situation mirrors mine to the tee.

 

I went to MHR when I was 26 to get my hairline back.

 

The doctor misinformed me, ok, he flat out lied, and I ended up regretting it.

 

The HT caused excellerated hairloss, and made my air look completely terrible. I went from thinning to bald in a matter of 10 months due to MHR.

 

You are fortunate to be asking questions now, and not have done the mistake I did. I went for another HT when I was 28 only to have picked another quack physician, putting money over the patient first.

 

Keep up hope, and don't give up. Start reading and learning. and you will find yourself in the right hands.

 

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

 

GOOD LUCK!!

[thinkingaboutit]

Make an appointment to have a consult with Dr. Ron Shapiro in Minneapolis. He is extremely highly regarded and can advise you on your options.

 

Read everything on this Forum. Check out the links. Go back through the archives and research anything and everything you can about HT procedures so that you will be informed when you to talk to Dr. Shapiro or some other REPUTABLE surgeon.

[Mahair]

rsanders36,Sorry to hear that you were mislead and lied to by yet another MHR "Dr." take solace in the fact that at least you were not butchered and that there are good doctors such as Shapiro that can make this less of a mistake for you and give you sound advise be it another surgery or cutting your loss.It really bothers me that these doctors are allowed to make such false statements in order to seal the deal.He told you "This is a good time to do this,you will never go bald."?False.Don't hesitate to report him to the state medical board and include the false statments and unrealistic expectations he gave you as well as him not explaining the risks,future hairloss, etc.This may curb his future poor judgment somewhat.There is also a class action lawsuit being put together against MHR you can pm me to find out how to get involved.Do not fault yourself for not doing enough reasearch these guys are renound for taking what you do know and embelishing it with what you don't (overselling),while avoiding or dismissing any concerns you have about complications or risks (fraud).They have extensive training in the selling of transplants, not in the doing.This is not your fault.We are conditioned to beleive that a doctor works under the premise of "do no harm." This is all too often not the case with larger organizations who the bottom line(profit) preceeds all else inluding your best interest.I made a statement in a prior thread that the standard of care is extremely low and has not been changed in years.This does refer to the real doctors in this field that are doing state of the art responsible work (far superior to the standard of care) but that others are allowed to do outdated, dangerous,freakish transplants without a need or cause to raise the bar and can get away with it based on the overall standard which is low.

[Smoothy]

Avoid MHR. If your in Chicago, the MN is a short drive or shuttle flight away to Dr. Ron Shapiro clinics-- he will correct MHR work and make you look 100% natural!!!!!!!!!!

[gillenator]

rsanders36,

 

Wow, another story all too familiar. Have you started a medicinal regimen, specifically Rogaine (minoxidi) and Propecia (finasteride)? You really owe it to yourself to research and consider these two primary meds that are the most effective in treating MPB and the only two approved by the FDA.

 

Yes genetic hairloss is progressive over a lifetime and you are probably noticing this more in your father since he is older. That's why surgical hair restoration requires "life-time planning" when dealing with a prudent and responsible physician. And there is a "world" of difference in this planning depending if the meds work efficiently for you or not. If not, one has to consider their own individual donor reserves in terms of grafts (FUs) and where they will be placed since there is never enough to cover the entire balding area. That's why so many ethically responsible physicians will want to start their younger male patients on Propecia for at least one year before ever considering surgery. I admire the one doctor who wanted you to wait rather than taking your money.

 

For younger men with more advanced levels of MPB in their family histories, hairlines should be more conservatively placed. If not the patient is then committed to filling in behind the transplanted hairline which may be too low for the limited donor reserves. And many, many patients experience an advancement of their genetic hairloss from a procedure as was stated by many posters. You then are committed to filling in behind the low hairline as you lose more natural hair leaving less and less donor for the mid-scalp and crown. A fair amount of younger patients also experience a permanent shocking out of their natural diffused hair from each procedure. I at times wonder if some of these docs do it on purpose just to keep the patient coming back over and over and then they are told they need more grafts over and over. It can be like a broken record, never ending.

 

But now you are doing the right thing. RESEARCH! I commend you for sharing your story with us which is not easy to do by any means. You have a world of resources available to you in this community and many of us to encourage you along in your journey. Keep reading, keep asking and know you are on the right track!

[rsanders36]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm still kind of lost on what to do. I'm reading more about "shock loss" and I have no idea if this is what has happened. My procedure was done 13 months ago. Then, all that I was concerned about was the temple area. Now, it's there as well as, where the doc had put the graphs. I think it's impossible to say this has happened because of the HT. Perhaps part of it was though. My doctor never told me about this. Was he suppose to? Quite honestly, now I'm really confussed with what to do. I dont want to get another HT if its only going to make more hair fall out. 13 months ago, I could "mess/spike" the front of my hair and you couldnt see my scalp. Now you can. The hair is much less dense. I would like more info on the class action lawsuit; however, I dont know if I would participate. I'd just like to see more information. I think at this point I'd like to visit with more doctors, tell them what I've experienced, and go from there. I'm actually going to make an appointment and confront Dr. Katona with my concerns and things he told me. When I told the Dr. here in STL my concerns, you could tell he was a bit defensive. Then he told me that he wouldnt have done the surgery because my hair was too dense still and he wouldnt have been able to spread out the graphs accurately. This is two Dr.'s from the same company! Another question I have. If I'm not going to be happy with the way it looks, I'd rather shave it down to a stubble. What effects will the HT have on the way my scalp looks? I've had 1000 graphs. I know there could be little bumps, but how bad will they look? Also, I would love to know what exactly 1000 graphs look like. I still had plenty of hair, and looking back perhaps I was a bit extreme in doing this. However, I looked at it as a preventative action. I really dont have any clue what 1000 will look like when my natural hair falls out. Anyone with any pics of around 1000 graphs? I'd like to see close up and wet if possible. Thanks again for everyones help. I like the idea of this forum for those who are considering a HT. This is obvioulsy a life changing event, one way or the other, and it's nice to see that people are taking the time to help others and share their experiences. God bless!

[rsanders36]

I just read an article on shock loss. It said that if you are trying to implant hair into an already dense area, the incision made could destroy the hair follicle. When I had my HT the hair in the front was fine. I couldnt see my scalp. However, now, I can. Its been 13 months. Does anyone know how long/soon this type of shock loss is prevalent. I only got my HT because of the temple area. Over the past 6 months I've lost a considerable amount in the area where my transplant was done. Could this be the reason? If so then I'm extremely upset. Sorry if I've misspelled some words but I'm a bit ticked off. Please do send me the info on the class action lawsuit.

[Mahair]

Of course the doctor should have told you this,he also should have gone through future hairloss,shockloss,your goals, risks,need for multiple procedures,limitations,unnatural apearance, amongst many other things this is actually his legal responsibility.Actually a h/t is contraindicated (in textbooks) for less than a n/w 4.Any less of a number need to be completely educated (by the doctor). I am suprised that you went ahead after one doctor said "no" to you I only wish he had told you why.Surgical error (transection) is carelessness I had alot of that. Shockloss is due to the trauma to the scalp on the hair in the existing area and can weaken or kill that hair,it can also occur outside of the imediate area and weaken that hair or fast forward its lifespan.There are no Markus Welbys in that group do not expect any empithy or concern from them ,they will actually become hostile twords you,they are very sensitive .They are also masters of rationalization and deceipt.You will be told that what you are experiencing is your future progression(even though it was caused by the surgery),that you are not being objective,you are being self critical,or had unrealistic expectations(even if they gave them to you).The first thing you should do is file a complaint with the medical board as a record it is easy enough and you have grounds.You are not alone many,many people have been messed up by these guys,I have yet to find a real satisfied "customer" other than thier consultants(who usually refer to thier MHR plant as old work and direct you to a virgin area and proclaim that this is the their work)or an MHR "DR." with a faux transplant(a few grafts) .I hear new stories all the time some are alot worse than yours.Send me a message(private message) and I will direct you to the suit you should get involved to help uncover the MHR beartrap and save other people from their fraud,deceipt and damage.

[Guest]

Rsanders and everyone,

I too experienced the exact same situation, went in for a HT to cover up the temporal area and lost it all in the front from shockloss resulting in getting a second HT, probably will eventually need a 3rd or 4th. These doctors need to be stopped and need to tell patients the truth about what happens to folks who still have a considerable amount on top. Yeah its easy for the folks who are completely bald, any new hair makes them excited...but seeing yourself lose your existing hair is traumatizing. I wish this site could be televised in a commercial to inform folks who are considering a HT to come here first before they are decieved. If that was the case, Bosely and those other mills would all go bankrupt....and how great would that be.

[Nashville Kat]

rsanders36, Maybe we are all talking too much and giving too much info for you to absorb. Find one of the excellent ethical Doctors from this site and consult with them. You should try Propecia and Rogain to see if you can't stop the future loss and stabilize your situation. I've had great results with this. Then probably wait until you can see where you are losing hair in the future after the meds have had time to work. You only have so much donor hair so don't go wasting any more of it until you have done these steps.

Best of luck and keep us updated.

Nashville Kat.

[rsanders36]

I have been on Propecia since my first HT. I felt like I did do my research. I met with 4 or 5 doctors, waited 6 months to do it, and researched countless hours on the internet. I never once came across the fact that I could lose hair with the transplant. I heard someone on this forum talk about it, did a quick search, and found numerous articles saying that the incision could kill existing hair folicles. Honestly, I had plenty of hair where I have lost a lot. I was never able to see my scalp and now I can when my hair is wet. When did you guys experience this? I had my HT in May of 2004, and I would say I really started noticing it around January 2005.

[Wallywonka]

Is there any possibility that these are hairs that would have fallen out anyway? What is your age and family experience? Perhaps the HT hastened an eventuality?

[rsanders36]

I think eventually it would have fallen out. But I do not believe it would have been this rapid. My older brother started receding a few years before I did. At my age, my brother was definitely balding, and I am nearly close to what he was at. Another reason why I feel this is due to the surgery is because I'm 100% sure I couldnt see my scalp when my hair was "spiked/messed" up. Now I can. Essentially, the hair is there, but much less dense. I almost feel like I've lost 50% of it. When my brother and father lost their hair, they receded. Mine has simply thinned. After reading the articles on shock loss I truly think this caused it. Also, I tend to take more after my mothers side of the family than my fathers, where my brother takes after my father. On my mothers side, there is hair loss but everyone experienced it in their early 30's. Maybe mine has just been prolonged some but I never experienced this rapid loss until about 8 months after the surgery. I do have one question. When does shock loss happen? One articel I read said that it occurs right away. That wasnt the case with me. It's just been rapid, and started 8 months after the surgery.

[PCC]

Hi rsanders36,

 

I can really empathize and relate to your situation. However I'm not sure if what you're experiencing is shock loss from your first transplant or the normal progression of male pattern baldness. Of course, you know by now that transplants do nothing to prevent further hairloss.

 

When I first started losing hair as a teenager it progressed like wildfire. At the ages of 16-17, I completely lost my bangs and my frontal hairline receeded at the temples. Although I could no longer wear my hair parted down the middle and feathered back (which those of us who grew up during the late 70's and 80's know was the style then) the density in front was still fairly good. Although this certainly didn't look normal for a teenager back then, when I look back at old pictures I would have been very satisfied if my hairloss had just stopped at this point because it would look perfectly appropriate for me now (early 40's).

 

Fast forward one short year to my senior year in High School (ages 17-18). The density in front had drastically thinned out and what was left was limp and flat. I had an elaborate "combover" routine with a comb, brush, and hairspray and "bad hair days" were common especially with our infamous Florida heat and humidity. My hair looked awful as evidenced by many yearbook and graduation pictures being ruined and I couldn't do anything to make it half way presentable. I was so embarrassed/ashamed that I did not go to my senior prom, let along having difficulty getting dates.

 

My first hairtransplant proceedure was at age 19 to begin restoring the hairline and frontal area. Of course, the rear half of the top and crown started to go in subsequent years.

 

I think my experience is typical of how rapidly hairloss progresses, especially the early stages. I will repeat the advice of others that in your situation you should begin the medicinal regimens of Rogaine and/or Propecia to attempt to supress the "normal" progression of hairloss and keep more of what you now have.

 

PCC

[Mahair]

He is on propecia and has been since his h/t. I bet had he not had the surgery he would still have that hair ,certainly with propecia only.Katona sold him a cure (H/t and propecia).This is would be called Malpractice in any ligitamate field of medicine.Also another doctor would'nt touch him,why do you suppose that is?Because this would happen.This being a "natural" occurence that coincided with his h/t is just what he will be told,as a defence, but it is not the case.This occurance happens frequently.Especially when poor judgment or willful disconcern are involved ,a common problem with MHR, second only to the neglegence and fraud they commit on a daily basis.

[tkotko]

Hey rsanders36,

 

And fellow St. Louisan. You're getting a bundle of info and advice. Not sure if this will all make you feel better or not. I think you're experiencing what many of us have or will be. I had a procedure with Dr. Charles at SMG a couple years ago. Since the, I've noticed a little thinning, albeit very gradual, but it's happening. But I know at some point I'll have to maintain a strategy of conservative, yet effective approach, with the advice my doc. I suggest you do the same, to keep your peace of mind. Go to one of short list of reputable docs, like Dr. Charles, Shapiro, for example, get their thoughts. I think it will make you feel better.

[Robert_]

tkotko,

 

I haven't seen you posting much recently. It's good to know that you are still out there reading and keeping up with us.

 

-Robert

[Nashville Kat]

Hey rsanders36,

 

I'm kind of like some of the last few posters here. I may be wrong, but I think most of the shock loss would have been closer to your procedure. My hair sort of stabilized for several years with only slight thinning and then all of a sudden it seemed like I lost alot very fast. There can be many reasons for this such as diet,nutrition,stress,medications and of course male pattern baldness and DHT. I think several of these factors affected me and made me decide to have my procedure along with watching my medications,vitamin and protein intake. I do what I can about my stress but this can be a big factor.

 

Nashville Kat

[tymman]

Hey rsanders36-

 

Don't rush out to get another HT just yet, it sounds like you hair loss is not into full swing. Hair loss can be fast depending on your stage in hair loss, like Nashville Kat is saying. Mine started with slow thining in the crown then 6 months later the crown was shedding like autumn leafs!!! Then a year later it slowed down, I thought it stopped. Then the temples and the mid scalp, they were slow then a few months laterWHAMMO!!. Then after a couple years of slow loss in that area - my MPB went on the war path!

My point?? --It sounds like the rapid loss was likely to fall soon, it may have been caused by trauma form the HT, or maybe not. sorry it doesn't help you feel any better, I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!.. Do what is suggested, keep on the Propecia, use some topical solution ( Minoxidil, Nizoral, Nioxin) something for the outside that can stimulate growth. There is only one that is approved by the US FDA and proven to stimulate growth. At this point you really need to consider traveling to other doctors and have consults done. They should be looking at your scalp under magnification. This magnification will give you both a look at what's going on closer to the scalp. In my opinion if they DO NOT take the time to look closely at your hair/scalp, then they aren't really trying to help you, only get your $$$. The better doctors are goin to tell you how much they think/guess your hairloss will progress in certain areas. They will explain shock loss and how they perform their transplants. Look for docs that are/were members of state/international hair loss boards/associations. See if any other doctors would recommend them, and if they would recommend any others.