Senior Member JohnH Posted October 30, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted October 30, 2003 A couple of months ago I saw a procedure on tv where a doctor cut a huge chunk of hair from a guys donor area and placed it in front. He didn't cut any grafts out. The guy was only losing his hair in the front. The doctor said it was like having 10,000 grafts. I can't remember the doctor's name. Was this a hairlift? Has anybody had this kind of procedure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member JohnH Posted October 30, 2003 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 30, 2003 A couple of months ago I saw a procedure on tv where a doctor cut a huge chunk of hair from a guys donor area and placed it in front. He didn't cut any grafts out. The guy was only losing his hair in the front. The doctor said it was like having 10,000 grafts. I can't remember the doctor's name. Was this a hairlift? Has anybody had this kind of procedure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 i believe that is called a "hair flap" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member NW Posted October 30, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted October 30, 2003 It is considered butchering by todays standards...I have seen that footage, if it was a blonde haired guy in Southern Ca...? Dr. Toby Mayer & the "Mayer flap". Dont risk your face IMO. NW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member JohnH Posted October 30, 2003 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 30, 2003 I'm not planning on getting one myself. I have read a couple of posts here about hairlifts. I think it was in one of the threads about Dr. Brandy. A guy said he had recieved a couple of hairlifts. Is that the same as removing some bald skin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted October 31, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2003 A hair lift or scalp lift is like a scalp reduction, only much more aggressive. For a scalp reduction, the doctor makes long incisions in the balding zone. A small section of balding scalp is cut away, and the remaining scalp is pulled together and sutured closed. There are different "patterns" that doctors use when making the incisions. However, your scalp is anchored to your skull. So it's hard to remove much scalp in a scalp reduction, because your scalp can't be pulled very far due to the connective tissue keeping the scalp anchored. Scalp reduction leaves long serious scars exactly where you don't want them.... right in the middle of the balding zone. A lot of guys can attest how hard it can be to get grafts to grow in scars... so these scars can be hard to cover with grafts, and they are right in the middle of the balding area. This can cause you to appear as if you have been hit in the head with an axe, or prompt others to ask if you had brain surgery. A scalp reduction can probably cause even worse shock loss in your recipient area than a grafting session could cause, because it is much more invasive than just poking recipient site holes in your scalp. Scalp reductions can't remove that much tissue, so there are guys who have gotten scalp reductions repeatedly, to try to reduce the balding area. However, removing a lot of tissue causes tension in the scalp, and the more tension you have in your scalp, the higher the odds that your scar will not be a thin one. Also, it is very common for guys who get scalp reductions to have stretchback, where the guy's scalp returns to it's original position pre-surgery. What a scalp lift or hair lift does, is aggressively go after that connective tissue anchoring your skull, so that your scalp can be stretched more, allowing more scalp to be removed than just a regular scalp reduction. The connective tissue is detached with "undermining" which means that the doctor takes a scalpel or other instrument and detaches your scalp from your skull. The connective tissue is cut. In some cases, patient's scalps are basically completely detached from their skulls (except at the nape, down by your cheekbones etc. This operation is usually performed in a hospital setting, and the patient is completely sedated. Longer incisions are required, that go through the balding area into hair bearing areas of scalp. A larger amount of balding are can be removed. Then the scalp is aggressively stretched up, and sutured together. I think that a scalp lift can remove about three times as much balding scalp as a regular scalp reduction. Like the regular scalp reduction, the scalp lift can cause shock fallout...it can accelerate your hair loss. It creates massive scars that travel your entire head. Think about it... You can't just pull the donor "permanent fringe" zone all the way up, and use that to cover the balding zones. That's not a very sensible approach. However, that is the logic of a scalp lift. That usually means that the hair above your ears and at the nape of your neck has been pulled way up out of position, and looks odd. The hair that gets pulled up is angled in the wrong direction. Some patients have been left with a permanent look of "surprise" on their faces. No matter how bad you think it is to look bald or balding, it is 100 times worse to look bizarre. Scalp lifts do not result in a natural appearance. And a scalp lift changes the entire scalp, permnanently. That means it can be very very hard to correct a scalp lift, to give a more normal look. The best you can hope for is some improvement, by placing grafts around the nape of the neck, around the ears, etc. Except the guys who get scalp lifts usually don't have any donor hair to spare, for this kind of thing. They are needing every possible graft in the balding zone. And the extreme stretching involved means that a strip excision will yield less donor grafts, and there is now a lot more tension in the donor area, increasing the odds of a bad donor scar. I'm sure there are some guys who have been helped with scalp lifts. The problem is that a lot of guys have been permanently damaged by scalp lifts, too. And the guys who have been harmed by them are in pretty bad shape. And even the doctors who are supposed to be good at scalp lifts have seriously screwed a lot of guys up. I guess this is a more detailed answer than some people wanted to hear, but I think it is important to explain WHY scalp lifts and scalp reductions are bad, instead of just saying "they are bad" and not explaining why. This pic shows a scalp reduction that has been sutured up. The "s" shape is supposed to make it harder to detect than a straight line. I have some scalp lift pics that are even harder to look at than this. In this pic, we are looking from the top down, and the guy's nose is at the bottom right corner. Look at the hair behind the staples, it is angled in the wrong direction. That hair is supposed to be angled forward, but instead it is angled backwards because it is pulled up into place from a different position. [This message was edited by arfy on October 30, 2003 at 08:23 PM.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Arfy, This HT looks good to me. what's the problem? I'm joking of course! I hope that these type of procedures are a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member arfy Posted October 31, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2003 Lots of doctors still do these procedures. Some "old-school" doctors are trying to convince the other doctors who are against doing scalp reductions that scalp reductions should "make a comeback". For one thing, it is an additional technique that doctors can sell to patients, and it is a way for a doctor to promote his clinic and differentiate himself from other doctors. ("We know how to do every kind of hairlift"). "My" doctor Carlos Puig used this angle to promote himself for many years, claiming that only a couple of other doctors in the whole world knew as many flap and lift techniques as he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Smoothy Posted October 31, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2003 Right on Arfy with the insight to scalp lifts, reductions and flaps. Believe it or not, but this was a pretty common pratice in the 1980's and into the early 1990's-- I remember seeing these guys during my procedures. The initial idea, regardless of the aggressiveness or safety, was that by doing one of these procedures you reduce the area of baldness that needed to be transplanted by (at the time FU wasnt used) mini's and micros-- also the "plugs". In theory it made since, but in practice the hair just didnt look natural because of the redirected angles of the hair after the procedure. This practice is not used by the top leaders in the field anymore. The only time, is for trauma or ER type of surgeries and even then they use a balloon or tissue expansion to limit the bad hair angles. WOW isnt new technology GREAT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Manko Posted October 31, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2003 Scalp reduction/lift is one procedure that I find incredible that people are willing to accept. I know the strip excision in current HT procedures is also somewhat barbaric, but the fact that it is covered by surrounding hair makes it easier to go through. The mayer-flap is another brutal method of moving hair. I remember reading an article about 7 years ago about HT remedies, and the mayer-flap was discussed and then quickly qualified as an unacceptable method. The thing that really grossed me out is that in the mayer-flap procedure, the hair bearing piece of skin is not completely removed from the head, but is cut to a point and then turned and flipped onto the hairline area. The turning and flipping results in a twisted piece of skin in your head that subsides in time. Thank God I'm not eating breakfast for another hour, I'm going to need the time to get that visual out of my head. Good luck. Manko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member poet Posted October 31, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted October 31, 2003 arfy if you have pics of hairlifts can you send them to stockpoet1@yahoo.com? Thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Oh my goodness!That's ashame.......... I just hope anyone suffering from this can get help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member JohnH Posted October 31, 2003 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2003 The scar on that guy's head looks like it goes all the way into his front hairline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member uncjim Posted October 31, 2003 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2003 Surprisingly, mine didn't hurt at all because the scalp became numb. To this day (it was 20 years ago) only about 80% of the feeling has returned. Uncjim's Journey "Temples 'n Crowns Forever" Uncjim's Hair Loss WebLog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocor1 Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 To all: What you need to know about hairlifts: STAY THE FXXK AWAY FROM THEM. Arfy's explanation, is more detailed and professionally worded. That was great info Arfy. Keep people away from the barbarians. uncjim: Man, sorry you had to go through that. Way to rally though and make a not-so-cool situation in to a not-so-bad one. Feels great. I've only seen one "okay" scalp reduction that someone posted here. Quite frankly, I was astonished that it worked for him. It was only after he had FUs inserted into the scar, though. Stay away. vocor1 Knowledge is Power -- If the worst question is the one never asked, then the worst answer is the one never shared. -- The truth only matters if you know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member John Gasparini Posted November 3, 2003 Regular Member Share Posted November 3, 2003 Well, I have started the ball rolling toward my second HT procedure. I am going to meet with Dr. Vogel in Baltimore. His name is mentioned frequently on these pages and I live in the surrounding community. I am also going to meet again with Dr. Brandy or his brother Jerry to check out prices etc., since it has been quite a while since my last procedure. I asked about hairlifts and was told that they no longer do them since bettere techniques have evolved. the "Brandy Lift" is no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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