P.J

TC, Yes, the tools for the analogy were off but the strain on the Drs hands and eyes are not and I still believe the miss rate or hit but cut off a hair or two is more like 10%+ I am still not taking into account the graft damage when actually removing the graft that Dr Feller discusses - the twisting. pulling and skinny graft effect - which also in turn lowers the success rate. I am just trying to help you from my experiences I had the same idea as you at one time but the amount of time it takes to get results and usually the FUE session are small - you end up wasting a year of your life for minimal improvement not counting the pain and discomfort of sitting in the chair face down for hours on end - then you go through it again and waste another year. Buddy, good luck in what ever you do - I wish you all the best PJ

TC, I believe with FUE there is more damage happening that first meet the eye. First try taking a sharp knife and try hitting dots on a paper 1000 times in row - how many direct hits will you get. If you get 3-5% you are better than most even in ideal conditions. Now take that dot which on top appears straight and underneath can go off in different directions and how many times do you cut part of the root underneath? So there is collateral damage to surrounding grafts because no one is going to hit that dot 1000 out of 1000 times every day and damage to existing grafts underneath because some off the roots grow off in a odd directions The hair count is also reduced like B-spot said they can cut into a 3 hair graft and leave one standing but actually have many three haired grafts can you pull safely with these small instruments. And how many of those three haired grafts are turned into two haired and the last hair dies off No with all that said I believe FUE is okay if you never plan on getting a strip and you have very minimal hairloss with very little chance for major hairloss in the future PJ

TC17, Its a well thought out idea - but it would be money well spent if you avoid FUE at your age. FUE is costly and the survival percentage from what I have seen and read is considerable less than strip. The amount of hair you need to make a difference makes FUE a waste of money unless dont have a typical MPB with little loss expected in the future Just my 2 cents PJ

I think 3mm or less would be a good result Its all based on the person and their healing cababilities PJ

Guys, The other part of the equation is the scar you receive when going long and wide. When you start doubling the average thickness it seems you are going to get above average tension on the wound and a wide scar I would like to know how their scars turn out after these sessions - no offence Bill but your is pretty wide I know some people dont care but the guys that are headed for a NW6 could possibly thin enough to expose a good portion of the scar and believe me they will care then just as if it was showing now PJ

Marvin has a good point about grey hair and having less looking okay. But rest assured if you care about your looks now, you will care when you are in your 50s and 60s. I am in my forties and care the same as 20 years ago This is a great topic and I think people are getting more realistic goals than a few years back with the great help from this forum PJ

It is very possible and should be considered before stip surgery. Also, dont anyone fool yourself and think you wont care about your looks when your in 50s and 60s - I am in my fortys and still care about my looks as much as I did 20 years ago Anyone getting a transplant cares about their looks and will throughout their life PJ

Did he remove the existing scar from yor first transplant in the second surgery? If he did - it would not seem possible to come close to those numbers PJ

FUE from my experience did take longer to come in than the norm - you should be able to tell within the next 3 or 4 months about the density. Then the hair shafts will thicken over the next year giving a better illusion of density. I would like to know who says they can pack 80-90 grafts per/cm and get good a survival rate? Good luck Bro PJ

Trend, As well as Wong - you should look back to Shapiro. I have seen some impressive results by him using DFUs PJ

Rick, It has been argued how much can be taken before you get the moth eaten look - assuming you are doing FUE with Cole. The answer will vary depending on hair characteristics - somewhere between 25-40% PJ

Pat - thanks for the help - you got me interested in this topic B-spot I wholeheartly agree with you that you need to know exact #s on everything with your transplant - that is not what I am trying to take away - this all should be included in your knowledge/descriptions What I was trying to point out is everyone refers to grafts not hairs when talking about their surgery - which in my opinion is not as important as hairs - in the hands of equally skilled surgeons The reason is, in the pictures a guy might see 3000 grafts a go holy crap that amazing but what might be missing is the 9000 hairs the guy recieved with an irregular amount of three and fours or DFUs - not that anyone is hiding anything its that most people focus on graft count instead of hair count. Hair Density = hair per cm2 Illusion of hair density = hair caliber, contrast and charateristics per cm2 PS -I do appreciate all the input you have shared and it has guided me greatly PJ

B-spot, Your point it understood but we are talking about refined surgery on this forum. Yes my graft count was low because I used FUE first which in turn lowered my graft count substanually from 90-100 to 75-80( which is a whole nother topic). Now, when we are talking about density I believe graft count means little in comparision to hair count - that is all I am talking about No matter how you slice 10,000 hairs are 10,000 hairs - 5000 grafts could be 10,000 hairs or 5000 hairs . I know you are referring to pricing - this really isnt what I am talking about - though if one just paid for the total strip area that would be solved To properly judge someones outcome what do you see hairs or grafts? dewayne - 2512 grafts by strip 1000 grafts by fue - bad first choice for a nw4 PJ

Peppermint, I would check out BHR in Brussels as B-Spot mentioned - from what I have seen they do great work = FUE and strip if needed. PJ

To all, I think over the years there has been a major focus on grafts per cm - when it should be hair per cm Grafts don't really mean anything without the hair lets face it. So let try and mention hairs per cm2 - which to me means alot more then jamming 80grafts per cm and half of them acually growing (see armani for this specilized technique) My new focus is hair per square cm! My experience Strip = 4995 hairs (27cm long by 1.25 wide) Fue = 2025 hairs 7020 hairs in 75cm2 frontal third with an average of 15 hairs per cm existing Hair total= 105-110 hairs per cm on average PJ

To all, I think over the years there has been a major focus on grafts per cm - when it should be hair per cm Grafts don't really mean anything without the hair lets face it. So let try and mention hairs per cm2 - which to me means alot more then jamming 80grafts per cm and half of them acually growing (see armani for this specilized technique) My new focus is hair per square cm! My experience Strip = 4995 hairs (27cm long by 1.25 wide) Fue = 2025 hairs 7020 hairs in 75cm2 frontal third with an average of 15 hairs per cm existing Hair total= 105-110 hairs per cm on average PJ

You could also add staples and sutures to this arguement. If I were a Dr, I would want every patient to have a shaved head and to use staples - it speeds the whole operation and makes it easier on the Dr and the Techs As a patient - I want my hair left a little longer for cover up and sutures for comfort I have seen great results on both sides of the spectrum So my advice is to find a top Dr that can accommodate your needs and wants PJ

cottonnc, It all about the size of the area you need covered - smaller head or area equals less grafts Other important factors also come into play: Hair diameter - thicker hair will give better coverage with less grafts Contrast - the less color difference between the scalp and your hair will give a better illusion of density Curly hair - this will also help with illusion of density As a rough exercise to give you an idea of what you might need: Use a soft tape measure and measure the area you want covered in cm 50cm area x 60 graft per cm = 3000 grafts +/- depending on the other factors and if there is existing hair Most importantly consult with a few top Drs to get an exact amount PJ

From what I have seen, heard and read about Dr Umar - he is a talented and caring Dr I would give my vote for him PJ

Bullfrog, I would talk to Phil at Bisanga clinic - very knowledgable and helpful guy - I have seen some very good results (in pictures only though) - worth looking into PJ

Please Grow, I do think this is very valuable site and very informative. But you ask me to take all the FUE information based on one Drs opinion. While I think Feller is one the best and most honest Dr.s I've read about - I cannot take his opinion as gospel. I believe there can be different approachs to the same end result. I would like to hear other opinions from Dr.s that do this every day because skills are perfected with pratice. PJ

Guys, Is there a coalition Dr that performs FUE exclusively? I believe Bart is in the minority on this site. It would be nice to hear from a Dr that only performs FUE day in and day out. I take more value from someone that does it on a daily basis exclusively PJ

Bill, Could you elaborate a little more on Dr Cole issues without disclosing patient names - just more specific on the problems - other than punch size issues I have been admiring his work and would like any info on him Thanks, PJ

Dr feller, Your honesty is appreciated I am not willing to go above a 1mm punch - as I have seen what that can do and its not pretty Hairloss Cure, I have contacted your office and they stated a similar opinion to Dr. Feller The price of FUE is already high and if it was possible to get better hair count per graft it would defintely be more appealing IF there is a DR that has achieved this I really would like to hear about it PJ

After having one FUE procedure to restore my hairline - about 1050 grafts. My thoughts were to build up my mid section with another 1500 - 2000 grafts - but this time using just 2s, 3s and 4s I think this would give me more bang for the buck = more hair less grafts. Has anyone ever tried this or is possible to pick just the larger groupings? I know there is a big deal about these smaller punches (.7mm) but common sense would say the transection rate is higher with these smaller tools - I am willing to have a larger dot vs damaging valueable grafts. Any thoughts would be appreciated? PJ