Al - Moderator

I just looked at your pictures. Your hair does not look bad at all. It's certainly not what you make it out to be (although I realize pictures don't always show the full story). Yes it's somewhat thin, but it's 5 years later. You have to expect to lose some original hair you had prior to the HT in a 5 year period. I would not call what you need a repair. Almost everyone is going to need follow-up work over the years as they lose additional hair. This is something everyone who undergoes a HT needs to be aware of.

My dad had a totally full head of hair well into his 50s. It's been slowly thinning since then. He's in his late 70s now and still thinning out in a diffuse pattern all over, so I don't think there's any age range or number of years where thinning will occur.

Yes! September of this year made 20 years since my first HT and I still have less hair then when I started. The pattern is a bit different with a little more hair in some places, but a lot less hair in others. Overall I look a lot worse then the day before I started. I've even been asked a few times from people who don't know what I went through why I don't get a HT if my hair bothers me. Yeah right!! Even my ex girlfriend asked me one time why I never had it done since I told her I was going to do it years ago when we broke up.

Even NicNitro admitted to having a few spots that he wished were a little thicker. I remember there was an area towards one side that was noticeably thin on him... although he did have a really great result overall. Anyway... what's needed for a great result like that is to have thick hair on the sides of your head that grows high up on the sides, so that the area on top to be covered is not so wide. Even if you do have that now, you don't really know if, when, how much the sides will recede as time goes by which could make it look not as great after a few years.

I never went for the lying and making up stories stuff. It's just not me. I'm not interested in lying to people I know. I have a hard time facing them especially later when they find out the truth.

You might want to try using a laser comb on that area daily for a few months. I had some areas of shock loss from 15 years ago or more that never grew back until I started using a laser comb on my hair. In my personal experience a laser comb worked best in those areas. It seems to stimulate the area so hair that has been dormant can start up in the growth cycles again. That's different than fighting MPB.

Although I did not go to Bosley (that would have been an improvement), I had a session size of just 12 grafts, one for 30 grafts, one for 40 grafts, and several in the 50 to 65 range. I know exactly what you're saying about it being a big mistake... however I don't feel it was MY mistake. I'm not a Dr. They should have (and did) know that what they were doing could not possibly work, yet they performed the surgery anyway telling me I would get a full head of natural hair. Don't ever feel it was your mistake even though many people will try to tell you that it was you who didn't do enough research. That's bull. If a Dr lies to you, it is THAT Dr who is at fault. It is illegal for them to do that. You should NEVER have to visit several Drs and then be held accountable for deciding which ones are lying and which ones are not.

Julius, If you use up all your available donor on a NW 4 pattern, then what do you do in a couple of years when you are a NW 5, then NW 6? It's a bad idea to get too agressive.

Unless you NEED to be taking certain things for medical conditions, then cut out taking all the crap and stop worrying about something that you don't have.

It really depends on how old you are and how fast you're losing it. If you're 35 or older and slowly losing hair over many years then nobody is going to say anything because that's accepted as normal.

I was being teased about my bald spot when I was 16. NW 5 by 21. Had a HT at 22 to reverse it. That didn't work. All I got was a bit of VERY thin hair and lots of scars. The area widened and lengthened faster than they were able to add hair. The result is that I never looked better than before I started the HT process. It just dos not work on someone very young with aggressive hair loss.

Two things: 1. It's normal to have some temporary shock loss around the donor scar. Give it a few more months and it should start looking better. 2. The scar below it is making the entire area look worse. Instead of having only the one new scar to cover, you also have to cover an old scar below it which can't be completely covered because of the shock loss from the new scar. As said in #1, give it a few months and it should look a bit better.

I agree with the original post almost 100%. I don't want a huge bald circle in the back of my head. I'd rather have the HT be a bit thinner and cover the entire area. I also tried wearing a hair system behind the HT in front, but couldn't pull it off because the frontal hair was too thin, high, unnatural looking to look right with a hair system behind it. If you know you want the back covered and you know you are OK with wearing a hair system then cover the front half first to a point where it's thick enough to be acceptable to you while still leaving some donor grafts available. Then try the hair piece behind it and see if you can live with that for a while. If not then use up the remaining grafts to give a thin coverage to the back. This can be a good idea to use the hair system on the back for a few years and then as you get older and may be more comfortable with a thin area in back, then go back and transplsnt that area and do away with the hair system. That was my plan, but the HT Dr insisted on covering the back first just to prove that I didn't need the hair system at all. Don't let that happen to you.

I've heard 4 fingers back when I had my HT, so that's where mine is and it seems about right to me. But what also contributes to making the hairline look higher or lower is the corners and temples.

I prefer something similar to this option 3, but I don't think I would buzz. Just keep it short. I'd love to be able to cut my hair short. But you need to leave 1000 to 2000 available donor grafts for future use as your balding area widens and goes further down the back. I am NOT a fan of doing the frontal 1/3 or 2/3 and leaving a large bald area on the top and back. I want full coverage. The bald spot in the back is always what bothered me most. Leaving that area bald is a complete waste of getting a HT for me.

Believe me, this is something you don't want. I have this problem. If you're headed for NW 7, you'll be there a lot faster if you max out your donor area because then you've just taken all of the hair that would be remaining. Plus your scars will start to show and will not be able to be covered with the thin hair on top.

This depends on the individual. I have hair on my shoulders, back, and chest that grows 2 to 3 inches long. I've shaved it before, but after 2 days you can see the stubble already coming in. I'm still getting more and it's getting thicker and longer each year.

So why is it acceptable if PRP, minoxidil, propecia, etc stabilize your hair loss so that results can't be seen in photos, but not acceptable if LLLT does the same thing?

A scalp reduction looks great right after it's done. You can easily see that there's less bald area in the after photos. However the skin stretches back over time and within 3 to 4 months you will look like you never had one done. I had 5 scalp reductions over a 5 year period long ago. Same stretch back happened all 5 times. Complete waste of time and money. As far as laser combs go, it worked on me too, but for some reason this forum is overwhelmingly against them, so I haven't posted about it in over a year. I found it works best for me in (what used to be) "permanent" shock loss areas around old HT donor scars.

It's hard to answer specifically to your case without pictures, but I'll do my best. It CAN be better to get it done while you still have some hair, so you can camouflage the work for the first few months while you're in the ugly stage and because sometimes it's hard to explain a big change in your hair appearance to some people if you were to wait until it's completely gone. However, depending on how much hair you still have and how fast it's falling out, you need to be aware that you may not get too much of a noticeable improvement over time as you continue to lose the native hair between the grafts. You'll then have to go for another session to keep up with the loss. I prefer strip if you expect to continue losing hair and expect to require further work later. As far as the 20 years experience. I've found it should hold little to no weight when looking for a HT Dr. The reason is because there are some Drs in this industry who have been practicing for many years who have never updated their techniques and still offering outdated procedures and passing them off as state of the art. On the other hand, there are also a few Drs who have only been around a few years, but started out training with some of the best Drs and are doing high quality work. You just can't tell by the number of years in practice alone. I'd ask him how many grafts he feels you would need in the thinning area if that entire area was completely bald since ultimately that's what you will possibly need eventually anyway. You'll get a better idea of what kind of costs you'll have to incur over the years that way.

Let me give you the condensed version of the last 2.5 years that I've been on this forum. I realize some of you weren't here and others won't remember because it didn't pertain to you, so maybe this will make you understand and show you why I'm so extremely frustrated... both overall and towards Dr Feller. ME: (I start by making some posts about how Hts don't always work especially in the long term as you lose more hair. Might look great now, but what about 5 or 10 years from now, especially if you do 2 megasessions now and don't have much donor left for later) FORUM: You're crazy. These Drs are the best in the world. They would never do that. ME: OK, but I know I'm past being maxed out of donor. I'm here looking for any advances (finds BHT and laser comb). I know I can't have any more HTs so I'll try a laser comb and let you know if it helps my situation. FORUM: Go for it. Let us know. ME: Hey! Great news! I'm growing a few hairs in the donor area where I had permanent shock loss! FORUM/DR FELLER: Liar! You must be a shill for the laser comb industry. ME: What ???? Just because a few hairs are growing I'm a liar???? FORUM/DR FELLER: You're lying unless you prove you aren't. Why not just get a HT repair. ME: Here are my pictures. I'm not a candidate for a repair (posts link to my website that I had on the web for 10 years showing picts and detailing all 25 surgeries I had). FORUM/DR FELLER: That's fake. How do we know that's even you. That site is so old. Proves you area shill for the laser comb industry. ME: Posts current pictures to this forum to prove I am who I say I am and to prove that I don't have enough donor. I don't even think I can get 500 grafts. DR FELLER: I would never do just 500 grafts on such a large area. It will take at least 2000. A hair transplant is the cure for you. Make an appointment to see me and get repaired. Stop wasting your time with junk that doesn't work and do something about your hairloss. FORUM: Yeah Dr Feller knows what he is talking about. Go see him (or another coaltion Dr). I'm sure he can repair you. Take a look at all the other repair jobs on this forum. It will show you what can be done and the advances that have happened in the last 5 or 10 years. ME: I don't know. I don't want to get my hopes up just to be let down again. Don't know if I can handle that. At least the laser comb is growing a few hairs. Even if not significant, it's going in the right direction and gives me that hope I need. And it's growing in the scars, which is where I really need it. DR FELLER: If you don't want to be repaired it proves you are a fake and a phony. Who wouldn't want to be repaired in your situation? I've seen your pics. I know I can fix you up. Come one in and we'll document it, take photos, and show the forum an awesome change. ME: Not sure. I still think it won't work on me. I still think I'm not a candidate. DR FELLER: See? He's a phony. Doesn't want to be cured even when I tell him I can do it. FORUM: Yeah. You're a phony! Stop posting the laser comb lies! Go get a HT repair if you really want hair on your head. ME: OK. Let me study more repair patients and get my mind set for it and then I'll give Dr Feller a call if I get convinced by what's here. FORUM/VARIOUS DRs: (posts various repairs over time) ME: (Stopped posting about the laser comb because I got tired of being insulted. Probably big disservice to those who ask about it) ME: (Asks a few questions on some repairs. Takes a year looking them all over and trying to find ones in similar situations as me. Looks at various scar repairs. Sees one who had extensive scarring from old punch removal in donor area and gets the entire area removed and sutured together and puts the hair from between the old punch scars on top/front of head. Hmm. That's what I need. Reads about others who got turned down by 4 Drs as hopeless, but still manages to get a few thousand grafts by strip from coalition Drs. Hmm... Looks at several of Dr Humayan NW7 patients who were turned down by other Drs. Hmm... not a repair, but still someone previously turned down for not having any donor available and still getting several thousand grafts. FORUM: (lots of various repairs and talk about how they are so glad they decided years later to go back and try again) ME: OK. I'm convinced!!! I'm pumped!!! Let's do it!!!! Can't wait to be sporting a decent head of hair after all these years!!! Woohoo!!! I'll finally be able to drive a convertible without worrying about my hair!!!! Oh yeah baby!!!! If I get started now, by next Summer... yes!!! (consultaion with Dr Feller) DR FELLER: Strip is out. You're too limited. We can't do that. Let's not even discuss the right side where all the worst scars are. We'll only try 500 grafts first. No scar improvements, etc, etc. ME: ??? WHAT THE F !!??? FORUM: Why in the world would you ever think you can get any kind of repair? Don't you realize you had 25 surgeries?! You're a jerk! You have mental problems. ME: ??? WHAT THE F !!???

I'll probably make several posts here over the next few days trying to respond to everything. First... was I too harsh on Dr Feller? Yes I was, but please try to understand what dealing with this for 20+ years has been like. Some of you should go back and read your own responses. You have been at least as harsh to me, if not more, than I was on Dr Feller. At least there's a reason for me doing it, even if misplaced. What's your reason? How do you think you would feel if you were in my situation? As for why I would expect to be able to get 2000 grafts. That's the whole point. I originally did NOT expect to get any more work done. I had been turned down by several Drs back in the mid/late 90s. I finally got on with my life hoping that one day medical advances would allow me to get a decent repair. This is no different than all the other members here who hope that if they get a HT and lose more later then by then there will be hair cloning/multiplication, etc. So... I got my life together, got a good job, bought a house which is almost completely paid off now, etc, etc, but of course my hair situation is still there, still bothering me everyday.... same as most of you with hairloss. It stops you from doing a lot of things you want to do. I'm no different. OK. So now that the rest of my life is going well and it's been 10 years since I've looked into HTs and any advances, I figure it's time to look at the possibilities again. FULLY EXPECTING TO BE TURNED DOWN, but not wanting to commit myself to anything too fast because I'd rather NOT go through the depression of hearing that nothing can be done. When you're in a situation that is hopeless, sometimes the only thing you have IS hope that maybe someday it can be fixed. That's what gets me through the day. I really don't want to know about it if it can't be fixed because that takes away the only thing I have, that hope. Can you understand that? So... why go for a consultation? Read my next post coming soon.

Some time ago on these forums Dr. Feller suggested that he could give me a great repair job, document it with photos and present it here when completed. Years ago I decide to take a year off from work to have a hair transplant done. By the time I went through 25 sessions over a 5 and a half year period and being turned down for any further work or repair by various Drs I was in some serious depression and still out of work waiting for my ht to be completed. I wanted to kill myself by that point as I felt like I had no hope of ever looking normal or having anything at all in life. I got myself through it by continually telling myself that if I'm at the bottom now then I can only go up, so I'll stick around another day and see what happens. Over time I talked myself into having some hope that maybe someday medical advances will be able to correct the old HTs and I'd finally be able to be happy with myself (thus my handle beHappy). So when Dr Feller offered to perform a correction and present the results here I was reluctant to go through with it because after living my hairloss for over 20 years, I didn't see a way to get any more hair out of my donor. I do not want to get my hopes up just to have them knocked down. I came back to these forums in 2007 (used top be a lurker many years ago) because I heard about body hair transplants and wanted to look into it as a possible solution. I've somewhat dismissed that since, but it still may be the best way to go for me. Anyway, after a long time viewing repair patients presented here by various Drs and hearing that they can get 2000 or more grafts out of previously depleted donor areas even after the patients were turned down by other Drs, I felt perhaps it was time to go in and get this done. I am not looking for miracles. I know I'll never have a full head of hair. I know it will always look somewhat fake because of the old work. I am willing to accept that. I am willing to leave the top center of my head alone and comb my hair over to cover the center. All I'm looking for is at least 2000 grafts with a general breakdown of 500 in the hairline to soften up the plugginess and add a bit of density, 500 on the left side to make a part and cover a bit of scarring, 500 on the right side to cover some scarring and so I don't have to grow my hair too long and do a ridiculously obvious comb over just to get hair on that side. I'd like to cut my hair a bit shorter, not have to keep it longer, and last 500 grafts in the far back of the crown where my hairloss has receded down the back of my head. That is only 2000 grafts total. Not nearly the megasession that I see many other repair patients getting. I thought if I'm really lucky I might be able to get 2200 or 2300 and even start covering more area or perhaps fill in portions of some scars. Again I don't think this is asking too much when compared to everything else I see presented here from both Drs and patients. So I have a consultation with Dr Feller and right away he eliminates the possibility of doing a strip and wants to do FUE. The sides and back of my head are already too thinned out. I want to do a strip to try to cut out some of the scars. Dr. feller tries to tell me that taking FUE from the entire area won't be noticeable. That makes no sense whatsoever. If the thinness is too noticeable now, how will it not be noticeable after taking more out? Perhaps it won't look much/any different than it does now, but then he's admitting there's no plan to improve it. Then he wants to do only 500 grafts. What!? This is exactly the amount he said some time ago that was a waste to have surgery for if the balding area is larger than baseball size. So why does he say one thing on these boards against Drs who do that and then privately plan to do it in his own practice on me? Does anyone here think 500 grafts is worth getting done on a NW7 person? Then while all of the Drs and patients are displaying photos of corrected hairlines and saying how great hairlines can be improved from old work, he tells me I can just keep combing my hair in a way to cover the plugginess and thinness in front rather than putting any grafts there. What? No fix there either? So I'll still have to constantly look in mirrors to make sure my plugs are covered? What's the point of having work done if I still have to agonize about it any time someone is within a few feet of me? He didn't even want to look at the right side where I have the most visible scarring. I could go on, but this is getting very lengthy. basically he offered me no real solution at all. What he offered was to do 2 or maybe 3 small mini sessions over a few years. That is exactly how I got to where I am. By having Drs continue to do small sessions on me while performing large sessions on everyone else. I am so tired of it. And then having to hear people tell me it's somehow my fault for allowing it. So... what should I do? Have a small 500 graft session? Is it somehow my fault if I follow his plan? I cannot wear a hat at my job. I have to meet many different people on a daily basis on a professional level (suit and tie). I am not interested in risking losing my job and being back to where I was years ago, taking time off from work and have it eventually turn into several years out of work to have several mini sessions done. For anyone who says Dr Feller really cares about his patients, so far I don't see it. I see a lot of his hype and talk on the forums, but he didn't seem to care about me at all. He just simply expected me to be glad I went to him even though I still had to wait years for a final result... which sounds like it might not be much improvement at all. I was SO afraid to be let down and lose hope of ever getting repaired because that's all i really have, but he didn't care a bit. It was an extremly hard 2.5 hour drove home. I don't even feel like working this week. I didn't tell him I was beHappy from this forum. I don't know if he probably guessed it eventually or not. I probably should have cut my hair before going there so he could have a better idea of what it looks like when I get a haircut. Perhaps that is my fault, but I didn't want to look like I was trying to make it look worse than it is. I did not go in trying to prove him wrong. I REALLY wanted him to be right and be able to fix me up. I would have gladly allowed him to use full face photos, list my phone number as a contact and even be willing to meet prospective patients in my area, give him the best praise to anyone I met, etc. Oh and I should also add that for all his talk about how a HT is a cure, the guy is still bald. His HT would not be acceptable to me... and from what I can tell it wouldn't be acceptable to most others here either as I constantly see others going back for work on their crown. Maybe I'll go back in a few months for another consultation. Maybe I should have just gone to H&W. At least I know they do the biggest megasessions and try to get you completed in one session if possible.

Some time ago on these forums Dr. Feller suggested that he could give me a great repair job, document it with photos and present it here when completed. Years ago I decide to take a year off from work to have a hair transplant done. By the time I went through 25 sessions over a 5 and a half year period and being turned down for any further work or repair by various Drs I was in some serious depression and still out of work waiting for my ht to be completed. I wanted to kill myself by that point as I felt like I had no hope of ever looking normal or having anything at all in life. I got myself through it by continually telling myself that if I'm at the bottom now then I can only go up, so I'll stick around another day and see what happens. Over time I talked myself into having some hope that maybe someday medical advances will be able to correct the old HTs and I'd finally be able to be happy with myself (thus my handle beHappy). So when Dr Feller offered to perform a correction and present the results here I was reluctant to go through with it because after living my hairloss for over 20 years, I didn't see a way to get any more hair out of my donor. I do not want to get my hopes up just to have them knocked down. I came back to these forums in 2007 (used top be a lurker many years ago) because I heard about body hair transplants and wanted to look into it as a possible solution. I've somewhat dismissed that since, but it still may be the best way to go for me. Anyway, after a long time viewing repair patients presented here by various Drs and hearing that they can get 2000 or more grafts out of previously depleted donor areas even after the patients were turned down by other Drs, I felt perhaps it was time to go in and get this done. I am not looking for miracles. I know I'll never have a full head of hair. I know it will always look somewhat fake because of the old work. I am willing to accept that. I am willing to leave the top center of my head alone and comb my hair over to cover the center. All I'm looking for is at least 2000 grafts with a general breakdown of 500 in the hairline to soften up the plugginess and add a bit of density, 500 on the left side to make a part and cover a bit of scarring, 500 on the right side to cover some scarring and so I don't have to grow my hair too long and do a ridiculously obvious comb over just to get hair on that side. I'd like to cut my hair a bit shorter, not have to keep it longer, and last 500 grafts in the far back of the crown where my hairloss has receded down the back of my head. That is only 2000 grafts total. Not nearly the megasession that I see many other repair patients getting. I thought if I'm really lucky I might be able to get 2200 or 2300 and even start covering more area or perhaps fill in portions of some scars. Again I don't think this is asking too much when compared to everything else I see presented here from both Drs and patients. So I have a consultation with Dr Feller and right away he eliminates the possibility of doing a strip and wants to do FUE. The sides and back of my head are already too thinned out. I want to do a strip to try to cut out some of the scars. Dr. feller tries to tell me that taking FUE from the entire area won't be noticeable. That makes no sense whatsoever. If the thinness is too noticeable now, how will it not be noticeable after taking more out? Perhaps it won't look much/any different than it does now, but then he's admitting there's no plan to improve it. Then he wants to do only 500 grafts. What!? This is exactly the amount he said some time ago that was a waste to have surgery for if the balding area is larger than baseball size. So why does he say one thing on these boards against Drs who do that and then privately plan to do it in his own practice on me? Does anyone here think 500 grafts is worth getting done on a NW7 person? Then while all of the Drs and patients are displaying photos of corrected hairlines and saying how great hairlines can be improved from old work, he tells me I can just keep combing my hair in a way to cover the plugginess and thinness in front rather than putting any grafts there. What? No fix there either? So I'll still have to constantly look in mirrors to make sure my plugs are covered? What's the point of having work done if I still have to agonize about it any time someone is within a few feet of me? He didn't even want to look at the right side where I have the most visible scarring. I could go on, but this is getting very lengthy. basically he offered me no real solution at all. What he offered was to do 2 or maybe 3 small mini sessions over a few years. That is exactly how I got to where I am. By having Drs continue to do small sessions on me while performing large sessions on everyone else. I am so tired of it. And then having to hear people tell me it's somehow my fault for allowing it. So... what should I do? Have a small 500 graft session? Is it somehow my fault if I follow his plan? I cannot wear a hat at my job. I have to meet many different people on a daily basis on a professional level (suit and tie). I am not interested in risking losing my job and being back to where I was years ago, taking time off from work and have it eventually turn into several years out of work to have several mini sessions done. For anyone who says Dr Feller really cares about his patients, so far I don't see it. I see a lot of his hype and talk on the forums, but he didn't seem to care about me at all. He just simply expected me to be glad I went to him even though I still had to wait years for a final result... which sounds like it might not be much improvement at all. I was SO afraid to be let down and lose hope of ever getting repaired because that's all i really have, but he didn't care a bit. It was an extremly hard 2.5 hour drove home. I don't even feel like working this week. I didn't tell him I was beHappy from this forum. I don't know if he probably guessed it eventually or not. I probably should have cut my hair before going there so he could have a better idea of what it looks like when I get a haircut. Perhaps that is my fault, but I didn't want to look like I was trying to make it look worse than it is. I did not go in trying to prove him wrong. I REALLY wanted him to be right and be able to fix me up. I would have gladly allowed him to use full face photos, list my phone number as a contact and even be willing to meet prospective patients in my area, give him the best praise to anyone I met, etc. Oh and I should also add that for all his talk about how a HT is a cure, the guy is still bald. His HT would not be acceptable to me... and from what I can tell it wouldn't be acceptable to most others here either as I constantly see others going back for work on their crown. Maybe I'll go back in a few months for another consultation. Maybe I should have just gone to H&W. At least I know they do the biggest megasessions and try to get you completed in one session if possible.

It says they estimate the repair cost at between 26000 and 50000. I don't know the exchange rate, but that sounds like a lot considering he originally paid 7000. I'm wondering how bad can it be if he has enough donor left to do up to 50000 worth of work. When I had my lawsuit going on, the estimated repair cost was 0 because it was deemed unrepairable by several different Drs. That's one potential problem with a settlement for repair costs for something that is not renewable. Any hair that has been lost is gone. No amount of money can ever bring it back. Any amount of repair he can possible have done, could have originally been done without it needing to be a repair. Thus he will always be left with a lesser look than was originally possible.