thanatopsis_awry

Ya, I'd agree with that. A hairline should always be pleasing to the eye and not draw that type of negative attention ever.

Ya, I mean, there's a fine, subjective line between what we mean by "unnatural", and that which is simply different in some degree from our "naturally had" hair, pre-MPB. The latter scenario is somewhat common, IMO, but is this really something that others would deem "unnatural", and not something that isn't quite often "naturally" remedied simply in the way we would choose to style and wear our hair anyways.

That's basically just an issue of density, however, or the quality of our donors; the latter is invariable and is what it is, and the former is what is to the extent that even perfect yield and flawless implanting leaves it totally variable and you could still have the very same density issues.

What would be seperating an "average" (or sub-average) result from a "good" (or great) one? If it is yield, which I think makes good sense, what is causing this gross variability in growth? Esteemed clinics within the Coalition have extremely strong protocol, and I can't imagine that misteps in their day2day operation could account for anything approximating the type of widescale "average" results you hint at, as to be defined as cases approximating (TTP, *assuming* for the sake of example, his 10month pics to be defined as a HT with an "average" result). Then is it physiology that is chiefly to account for the variability of yield? I don't believe that the disparity between Dr. vs. Patient results is that vast. Sure, a Dr. will rarely if ever post a case of BAD yield; and a patient will. But it is the *rarity* when we see a patient result differ that vastly from that which his Dr. would normally post on his own.

Hey bro, It's really good that you found this community; that it has had therapeutic benefits for you is great to hear, and you are certainly on a pretty enviable course. I can't tell you how many guys I have spoken to or heard about who would give just about anything to have found this place *prior* to them commiting to a HT. I would first urge you to continue usage of propecia/fin -- though it is not a miracle in the sense of re-growing hair, it's ability to preserve existing hair is an *extremely* huge tool when used in conjunction with the HT. The combined effect can often act as a "cure" of sorts, in that you *can* beat your MPB and win the battles. I've heard good things about Dr. Kulahci, and I would certainly do a consult with her considering she is relatively close to you. But I would also do consults (live or online) with a variety of clinics, ideally doctors who were admitted into the Coalition, and to not let geography play a major role in your decision-making process. There are some excellent doctors throughout Europe to consider -- Hasson&Wong in Canada, the Farjos in UK, DevRoye in Belgium. If you were to consult with all of these clinics you would be arming yourself with a tremendous amount of information. As for whether you *should* get a HT, I honestly can not say, and the doctors mentioned above could make a better call after doing a thorough consultation with you. So, keep on the propecia/fin, consider adding rogaine foam 5% if you can commit to that, do your consults, and continue to research and ask questions. You might also want to look into a concealer -- I'd reccomend Dermmatch and Nanogen -- which can really be excellent fixes in masking baldness, thinning specifically. Keep your head up, and work on your life itself as you work on your hair; it'l work out.

You will get different answers from certain people. The general consencus, however, is that you can indeed use concealers for cover w/ a HT -- the big question is *when*. Again, you will find different answers here. I feel waiting a good 3-4 weeks is totally fine, and to keep in mind that you wash it out of your hair each night/morning when you shower. I personally started using concealer after 2 weeks, and used it heavy and often. You should speak with your doctor, though, to get a more in-depth anwser and what he personally feels; and you can always get additional opinions from different doctors and clinic reps, which I'd reccomend.

I would not say this is an 'average' result, and I wouldn't say it is average for Dr. Alexander, and certainly not for every other doctor within the Coalition. That's far-fetched. That we only see 'the best' results, and that results like this, which are 'average' and typical simply stay in hiding most of the time, is conjecture; but it also defies empirical evidence (the many results we see posted by patients). I'd encourage TTP to get some feedback on what his actual growth is, as he is hitting the 12month mark. Once this % is derived, what our eyes look to be seeing can be set next to the hard data on what his yield has been. Also, re: H+W remark on yield. Of course, in a bubble, but I have never seen a set of results to actually verify this conjecture.

Well done, m8! That is a bodacious amount of grafts and I fully expect your result to more than satisfy you in both coverage, density, and naturallness -- and make all of us green with envy.

Bleh, I'm sorry man....was this the NuHart around the Chicago area? I'm going to give you my blunt and honest opinion, because I think it's best to move forward clearly and with reality in play: NuHart is a notorious clinic for producing poor results, if not outright butchering people, and it seems that on you their ways have not changed. They either did not actually give you 3000 grafts, or virtually none of the 3000 grafts they were supposed to be giving you grew; or some combination of the two situations. I would talk to the clinic and demand a refund (ask for full, because you had virtually no cosmetically appreciable growth), but accept pretty much whatever you can negotiate, IMO. No matter what, I would *not* go back to them for *any* future surgeries or services. If you are still inclined to restore your hair, I would consult with some world-class physicians and clinics and see what your options are. It doesn't seem like your result is terribly "unnatural", though that aspect is tough to determine from the pics. But, this, as well as actually giving you new, natural hair, can be corrected.

I have very little opinion on the NeoGraft machine itself; however, DougMonty, "desirehair", and all other NeoGraft employees paint a pretty ugly picture, and frankly don't give much hope, let alone credence, for the merits of NeoGraft. In short time, you've spewed false if not outright slanderous fiction against the community, targeting both patients and doctors alike. Considering just how defensive and lengthy your posts can be, it surprises me that DougMonty has been so hesitant to follow through on his promise and show Bill the merits of NeoGraft, which undoubtably would be *the* single most positive thing that could aid NeoGraft's clout, image, and following on this community, and the community's outreach.

Harry, I agree w/ Spex. I'm not sure that this would appear successful for 1500 grafts, let alone 3k. Has your growth always been so minimal? I would 100% contact and be open with your doc, and try to get this sorted.

Is the patient on meds. Dr. Lindsey? From the pics, it looks to me like he is a true NW7, or at the very least has a definitive NW7 thinning pattern. Scar should be good; seems like it could be trycho to perfection.

I did it to a #3 and used concealer and pulled off a pretty sweet look. I think I looked good this way, but the concealers + short hair can make it a lot more visible to the naked eye, and you run a greater risk of this. Unless, you just are VERY modest in your application, but again, this will prolly only achieve the look you are after if you have very modest loss to begin with. I'd use dermmatch for hair that short, and probably nothing else.

Maybe not feasible....but I think it'd be pretty humorous, and at the same constructive if not admirable, to do some sort of The Women of _____ booklet/calender for a bunch of clinics. The techs truly are unsung heros, and it's too bad they so often remain cloacked for the most part from the prospective patient.

hdude, what are you talking about? Pats just waited all those years because as Master knows, the crown takes time to grow. And cmon, everyone knows that Master stopped performing strip and became a FUE maesotro long ago....

Looks really good. A very appropriately done conservative approach, exectuted to perfection. Great write-up.

Looks good; his hair looks really natural and he's styling it out he wants and nothing looks amiss. I'm a bit confused by the 2 pre-ops, though; in the first one, he seems to have significently worse hairloss than in the second, which is surprising since the latter is a top-down. Where they taken at dates spread out far enough in which the patient continued to thin? Or is it mainly just the way his hair was laying one day.

Work looks really good, and the intra-operative pictures are always cool to see. Look forward to seeing this grown!

I know, Phil, I was being a bit sarcastic and just re-emphasizing what your point was. It's a good one. Again, it's never good to have a dissatisfied patient where many others would also not be satisfied. But, and Bill noted this, TTP was intending on syncing back up w/ Dr. Alexander for a final re-evaluation, and to come to what we'd all hope and expect to be a good closure to things and TTP will move forward strong and with confidence in his follicular future. Sorry for further burying your posts to Atomic and 'freakin', Swagger... EDIT -- posted at same time as TTP...have a good meeting and discussion with Dr. Alexander, m8, and I truly hope you've gotten some major late-term growth the past 2months, and that you'll become the poster-child for end-stage growing!

Lol, Swagger....you know I like you....but sometimes.... Will Dr. Feller give JohnMolloy the shaft "after leaving him with crap density"? Cmon, let's not derail things when the pics we have all seen of John's (the latest of which I posted on his behalf) have been from what -- 7 months out? Armani could do a 8k, 2hour, session and most would still tell the poor bloke who had it done to wait at least one or two more months down the road before really making a major judgement.

Just FWIW...TTP himself -- you know, the guy who is supposed to be the one we are supporting -- seems pretty cool/appreciative/supported with the advice, support, and words that have defined this thread, and have been given to him, and given to his case. Phil, do you want to see someone question Atomic's motivations? Look, when you have a dissatisfied patient and a majority of non-biased people who would feel dissatisfied as well, it isn't the best situation. Still important to keep in mind that when TTP reaches the completion of his HT (12months?) he will work with Dr. Alexander and hopefully reach a conclusion on things and a path to move forward on that works for everyone.

I think we are basically advocating the same side, hdude. But he was a NW5, and it matters despite the fact that the grafts were just allocated to his front -- because he had poor and certainly not great supporting regions to influence and aid the perceived density of his recipient zone. Just look at the very clear pictures taken the morning of his procedure. "Dr. Alexander said he could expect a great result with his hair quality and this graft number. Is this a great result? No." I agree. The very situation we are now unfortunately discussing is the very thing that I feared would happen *before* TTP went under the knife. Why? Because the "margin for error" was EXTREMELY low, the potential for "underwhelming" was disproportionately high, IMHO. And this is because TTP did NOT have a lot of native hair, and he did not have tremendous support for his recipient zone AND he was not getting a whole lot of grafts -- principally because they were *shooting* for 2500. For these reasons, because of TTP receiving the type of sub-optimal yield that he did, it has resulted in such a dissatisfactory result that has drawn the attention it has. But IMHO, it is not some heinous yield, per say, that catches my attention, nor has caught my attention, so much as it is the gameplan that I personally would have questioned were I in TTP's shoes, and which I did question for that very reason.

TTP is a NW5+ and he got recco'd 2500 grafts. If that isn't a lot of real estate to be covered, and that isn't a spot of essentially walking into unrealistic expectations I don't know what is. TTP can get evaluated when all is said and done and get a % on his yield, but above and beyond what the yield ended up being, I've felt, feel, and will feel that the graft reccomendation given to TTP created a recipe of unrealistic expectations and a too-good of a shot at an underwhelming result. I'm pretty sure that I cautioned TTP pre-op of this very thing. I don't want any patient to end up dissatisfied after braving MPB and going through with a HT, and having realistic expectations is the name of the game. I don't think it's TTP's "fault" for having unrealistic expectations, but I believe he had them nonetheless.

I find it hard to believe that Dr. Alexander would very very simply describe his very own patient's result to be average, but that he really meant in light of general statistic reasoning and bell curves that he was speaking about TTP in light of hair transplantation as a whole. It's his own work, it's his patient -- if a Dr. tells a patient whom he operated on that his result is of X nature, let's not overcomplicate things, unless the Dr. himself actually says something else. It would be pretty atypical for a Dr, or a patient, to label a/their result to be X, and not to simply mean it to be in the context of the very Dr.'s work in question. And it's really not like it's so far-fetched for Dr. Alexander to call this result "average" in this light -- TTP had a lot of real estate to cover, and he didn't get perfect yield or get a lot of grafts. The question would be how often Dr. Alexander feels these "average" results occur; it's only surprising to see because so many of Dr. Alexander's cases that we see are well above average. But, I really think it's actually quite reasonable for this result to appear "average" or even a bit below, just due to how much real estate needed to be covered and the modest number of grafts (and that TTP didn't have some outrageous hair charachteristics to throw in to the mix). Throw in anything but perfect yield and it's a recipe to get an underwhelming result if your expectations were to high.

Hey man, Feel your pain...but, and I know I say this without having seen your pics....the fact that you have had such a good reaction to propecia/fin....and your hairloss/graft target seem pretty ideal....and that you'd be going to Hasson.... I feel pretty confident that you are primed for a really spectacular turn-around. The stabalization of hairloss while being on meds while you have modest hairloss is really paramount. And going to a doctor/clinic as world-class as Hasson.....I like your odds on getting to where you want to be.