Follicle1984

Phase 2 study underway I beleive.

Im definately more keenly awaiting kintors products, especially GT20029 as they will have proper phase 1 2 3 clinical trials with much larger sample sizes and data. It's the the waiting, whilst the follicular clock is ticking!

I hear you on all these points. I've had the same concerns re these same issues. However I suppose what I was meaning was in relation to the reporting on Cosme that is now coming in from actual users. I just feel with regards to efficacy, we can't judge yet. You're right...in 6 months we may have some more anecdotes. I really want it to work and be side effect free like you.

So hard to say if lack of morning wood is related at all. It can vary with so much. It may have been present in deep sleep and you just haven't woken with it. I would agree if it's not present for months on end and it usually is, then a logical brain would put 2 and 2 together and conclude there is a some relation going on there. How have other aspects of functioning been down there? Has it impaired you in other ways? I agree with 12345 that it's tricky to know with fluradil on board also. However, I've never had any issues with fluradil that I can recall.

Why do you say that? It's way too early to say. You need about 6 to 12 months, really 24 for good measure, to know if a treatment is truly working. People have only been using it about 2 months tops. If it just maintained I'd be happy.

Anyone used cosme and got anything noteworthy to report? I know it's too early to comment on any meaningful results yet as will need 6 to 12 months to draw any meaningful conclusions. But...any interesting anecdotal findings eg reduction of shedding? I'm not convinced the scalp itch is that useful of a sign one way or the other...but any lack of scalp itch? Or...any notable side effects? Libido? Erections? Nipple issues? Mood or cognitive issues? I know the nocebo effect may play a role here but...its worth people logging what's going on.

There are a few very small scale studies showing results which seem quite impressive. It does make one really wonder about the scalp tension theory and how it may fit in with androgens...perhaps show how upregulating the 5AR synthesis around the follicles (maybe to do with low oxygen tensions causing more T to DHT and less T to E2). I know some postulate it's more that botox can directly influence TGF-B, a known negative factor in miniaturisation. However I beleive in some studies it was the muscles around the top of the scalp that were injected and not the top of the scalp itself. Making one wonder how such a result could happen unless it was somehow connected with tension throughout the galea aponeurotica.

I've not heard anything about official release in the USA sorry

I think both are real and both are possibilities (drug induced side effects vs nocebo induced side effects). It can be very difficult to pick the two apart. I guess one method to at least attempt to differentiate is to extrapolate from the drugs mechanism if the symptoms fit and correlate in time scale. For example, to develop true medically diagnosable gyanecomastia takes time to develop. Yes it's possible from long term 5AR inhibition, but it's not from taking one pill of finasteride. It's physiologically couldn't develop that quickly. Yes you may get earlier warning signs it's happening. I think whenever anyone develops a symptoms almost immediately, that rings an alarm bell, for me at least, that there is more chance this COULD be nocebeo effect. However it is no guarantee. Just to state, I am someone who does believe all/most anti androgenic compounds could theoretically produce drug induced side effects. Indeed I beleive I have suffered from them (finasteride). I am also however, willing to conceded that the nocebo is a real and documented phenomenon. The mind is a very powerful and not fully understood thing. The ED from nocebo is ED nonetheless! The suffering is real either way.

It all depends if it goes systemic. The good thing about this drug is it is undergoing rigorous large scale studies. The outcome data will speak for itself. However I presume they will also measure the systemic drug levels as they did with pyrilutamide. I think there could be some variation amongst people, but even then I would hope they can titrate the drug dose so that the effect is largely at the scalp and very minimal everywhere else.

You haven't given any time to see the results from COSMERNA though? It could be a huge game changer. You're already on a very aggressive stack to attack the DHT aspect. I know its somewhat controversial, but some theorise testosterone itself can cause miniturization, especially with the spike in scalp T when you reduce so much scalp DHT conversion. So it could be reducing the numbers of AR in your scalp could have a big effect. Soon (well relatively speaking) pyrilutamide will hopefully be approved and available and that would definately be worthwhile when it's officially released IMO. Most other things available beyond what you're already on have less of an evidence base and are more experimental. I guess PRP and LLLT are potential options.

Has anyone had botox treatment for their androgenetic alopecia? Can they discuss their results if they have tried it? Thanks

As anyone got hold of this and used it yet? I know even if you have its way to early to say much. But would be really interesting to know who is using this and what observations you may or may not have. Thanks

Surely hairloss can be broadly divided into a few distinct categories, the three biggest that I can think of being; androgentic alopecia, alopecia areata, prolonged telogen effluvium. I understand certain people may have specific deficiencies of minerals or vitamins which may need specific treatment. Some may even have a hormone imbalance such as hypothyroidism/hyperthyroidism. But beyond that, the key treatments for each of the above are reasonably standardised and well researched. Personally, I'm not sure how a genetic test would better tailor treatment for androgenetic alopecia for example? If that's what someone has (which i dont think many would need a generic test to prove...maybe some do who knows), we already know what treatments work/help for this condition. Eg 5ARi, topical antiandrogens, androgen receptor inhibitors or destroyers, and any new treatment that comes about which can reduce the downstream inflammatory/immune cascade eg minoxidil, PRP, topical cyclosporin, topical estrogen. I think blood tests for minerals vitamins and hormones may well be important for some...would ve annoying to miss something easy to treat. But I imagine things like true copper and zinc deficiency are actually quite rare. Happy to be educated more on this issue though. I will look into it more. And I am sure the more we know about the genetics of these conditions the more future treatments may become more targeted. I guess COSMERNA is actually an example of a genetic treatment really. RNA being an expression of genes. Thank you.

Oh thanks. It did strike me this may have been a possibility 😔 how sad...I thought it had suddenly made me feel quite hopeful about this product. Well I will report any positive results in a month's time when I've done the first 6 week intensive course.

Ah OK. Best of luck with it all. What are your thoughts about COSMERNA?

Are you considering trying dutasteride mesotherapy then Archan?

I would take something which allowed me to hold my ground as a win i think. That's pretty much all fin and dut do for most people who use them. I know there are one or two extraordinary regrowth stories out there, but they dont seem to ve that common. Even the few hairs per square cm noted in trials are probably not going to make a huge visual difference for most. It's interesting to note however that even doses as low as 0.1mg once a month can in some, reduce sperm counts, suggesting it will of course go systemic and even these time doses can have effects elsewhere in the body. I beleive the sode effect of ED is pretty low to non existent though. Looking at one hair clinic, they have a protocol administing 1ml of 0.01% only every 3 months!! So in 9 months you've only been exposed to 0.3mg! Less than one day's worth of 0.5mg soft gel. Or, for a 9m period; 135mg dutasteride vs 0.3mg dutasteride! Wow. Even for someone who is nervous about 5ARi's, the common sense part of my brain finds it hard to beleive that must not be exceptionally low risk for developing side effects.

Hi all. Has any one any experience with dutasteride mesotherapy? Aware many people are using topical dut these days. But given there are so few studies on topical dut, and there are probably afew more on dut meso...has anyone tried it? It would seem you can reduce drug exposure massively. As some routines seem to be 0.1mg injected just once a month.

I presume you live in the UK also? What are your thoughts on buying it from the main cosme site which, I presume is in Europe? I'm still unsure. I want to know what it's status is in the UK.

No. I've been waiting for this too. Still can't see it sadly.

I'm guessing no one in the UK has bought and received this given the lack of response?

If the lighting is the same, then this does indeed look like some.good solid progress mate. Nice one. How is the topical dut going? No sides to speak of yet? Do you know if Xyon are any closer getting this to the UK? I've emailed them afew times and they have replied saying they would like to branch out but have no specific timeline or plans 😪 I'm pretty desperate at the moment after my last fin failure. I will probably end up trying cosme, but your dut experience is really encouraging if you've gone months without sides. I mean their super high dose scares me a bit, as I know even 0.1mg of dut in the system has a big effect on DHT. But I guess we need go focus on the outcome data. And if most people of the xyon topical dut don't get sides this is VERY encouraging. Still feels a bit of a dice roll though to me after how badly I reacted to fin each and every time.

Best of luck to you anyway sir. Keep us posted on your results 🙂

Yes I'm considering ordering some. I'm just not very sure about how the drug isn't going to go systemic...and the studies were so small, I'm not sure they will be sufficiently powdered to pick up side effects which may be significant in a certain percentage. I was considering just waiting 3 to 6 months and waiting for feedback to come out. However I realise the nocebo effect is real and may negatively influence online testimonials. But I guess if the overwhelming number of reports mention systemic antiandrogenic side effects, that would be cause for concern. I have considered oral minoxidil, annoyingly topical gave me unfortunate oedema under the eyes. To the point people were noticing quite often and pointing it out to me. I'm a bit concerned oral may just do the same. Maybe worth a try though. Currently reexperimenting with nanoxidil to see if that gives me the oedema or not. Also I'm trying calecim.