Follicle1984

Does anyone using topical dutasteride have any update? Do they feel its working without side effects? Anyone got blood work back? If I'm honest, the theory just doesn't seem that solid to me (molecular weight not going systemic). Also, studies suggest even 0.1mg of dutasteride has major effects on serum DHT, so it wouldn't take much to start having a big effect systemically. And even dutasteride mesotherapy using 0.1mg dut very infrequently (like once a month or less) was found to lower sperm counts in some, suggesting that dut mesotherapy at least can and does go systemic to some degree. I still cannot get my head around the whole 25mg of dutasteride in xyon thing! Particularly interested to hear from those who have had side effects from finasteride or oral dutasteride. I may start a new thread about dutasteride mesotherapy...have many people hear tried that? At least there is a little more science there and the dose seems a lot less scary. I mean one "episode of good absorption" of the xyon topical dut (even just a couple of milligrams going systemic), could take months to clear your system.

I'm glad you posted this. I've seen this before linked from hairlosscure. It's quite an interesting topic. It's on my reading list. It would be HIGHLY reassuring (to me at least) if this is indeed true and very lose doses of dut have much shorter half lives. It is the long half life which has always kept me from using dut. I would try it tomorrow if its half life was that of finasterides! The other issue which complicates knowing how long topical dut remains in the system is it avoids liver first pass, its downstream metabolic profile could be very different. And some of those metabolites may or may not have longer half lives than others, and may or may not contribute to duts effectiveness and side effect profile. I really really wish we had more data on topical dut.

That would be amazing. I will certainly be eagerly awaiting any news you can get from them 😀 I think yes, combining 5ARi and anything that works on the AR (AR antagonist/blocker, an AR degrader, or AR synthesis inhibitor) would likely yield more impressive results than one drug alone. I think this is because its very very difficult to do anything 100%, either A) inhibiting the AR to 0 in the scalp (would likely take such a high scalp concentration that it would likely spill over significantly systemically), or B) reducing DHT to 0. There are I believe, back door pathways in the body so that some DHT is likely still floating about, and there is the theory than other weaker androgens such as testosterone can still play a role, which I think is likely in some men if the concentration of test if high enough. But then if you inhibit DHT in the scalp by 50% and also concurrently reduce AR down to 50% of their normal levels, you may have a scenario where you achieving something quite special.

I would imagine it's a product of the vehicle and also the overall metabolic clearance and the half life of the drug. As with anything, if it has a long half life then its liable to build up in the system. I imagine it will go systemic to some degree. It would just be a matter of how much. Losing 1-2% of your androgen receptor systemically would likely go unnoticed. Whereas if it can nuke androgen receptors down to 20 to 50% of normal levels in the scalp, this would be highly efficacious and likely a worthy trade off. Similar principles with pyrilutamide and GT20029. And topical dutasteride for that matter. I watched segments of the video you posted. Many thanks. I can see you were obviously concerned about the potential for side effects of cosmerna. I can understand that. For me personally...this is where the trial data comes in. I believe trials are less rigorous in Europe for this product as it is classed as a skin care cosmetic rather than a medication/drug. I need to trawl through the studies. Ultimately...its this outcome data with regards to side effects that we need...mechanistic data is only so useful. If no one gets side effects, and its a big enough study, following up for long enough...this would be highly reassuring. Certainly, in my humble opinion, more reassuring than topical dutasteride, given how little we know about the pharmacokinetic profile of this drug currently (as there are scare few high value big studies that im aware of)...but at least with dutasteride, we know what the drug itself would do if it does go systemic.

Thanks Melvin. Will have a watch of this later.

Thanks Well its April now do I shall be keeping my eyes very much open for it. It would very great if it was available through amazon. That would be a dream. It feels like we get left behind a bit in the UK compared to the US. Been waiting for Xyon to release there stuff over here but they have not sorted that yet. I hope COSMERNA proves to have some worth.

I had heard (from several hairloss youtubers), that it should be available at the end of March 2023 over here...but there website just says coming soon. I've emailed them afew times but no response.

Hi all, I just wondered if anyone had any updates about when the SAMiRNA COSMERNA hair product may be commercially available in Europe and the UK? Thanks

Hi all. I just wondered if anyone could help me with this question. If a hair falls out after the resting telogen phase and a new hair starts to grow (in the anagen phase), how thick will the new hairs shaft be? Do all terminal hairs start out in appearance as tiny colourless vellus hairs when regrowing? I'm trying to work out, if on a new hair treatment one starts to see new terminal hairs, could this be the start of new terminal hairs? Or are they likely just miniaturised hairs which will unlikely get any thicker? I know in androgentic alopecia they say there is progressive miniaturisation of the hair follicle and with each subsequent hair cucle the hair is slightly thinner in its shaft and shorter in length. If this process is reversed by a treatment, how quickly does a hair revert back to the thickness and diameter of a terminal hair unaffected by androgenetic alopecia? Sometimes you see pictures of an amazing (and quick...matter of months) transformation where seeming empty hair zones now are filled with terminal hairs. I presume they have haven't had time for multiple hair cycles for this hair to gradually thicken up...so does the follicle just beef up quickly and then the next hair is pre-androgentic alopecia size and thickness? But I guess my original question is...even at first with any terminal hair (even in a male completely unaffected by androgenetic alopecia)...if you looked at a brand new strand of an anagen follicle's terminal hair...would this appear like a vellum hair when it popped out of the scalp and was only afew mm long? It's obviously different to if you just shaved your head and then the new hairs shaft is already at a thick (and stubble like) diameter isn't it? Or should all new anagen terminal hairs start out thicker and with colour? I hope that's clear. Difficult to articulate. Cheers

Cheers Win. Good to know the topical dut seems not to give you the same sides that oral dut did give you. I guess in theory if you wipe out a massive chunk of the scalp 5aR enzyme, even on higher test cycles you would have significant protection..but as you say risky. A topical antiandrogen as an additional layer of protection would likely be beneficial. I've just been rereading a dutasteride mesotherapy study, as there are so few topical dut studies. So I end up extrapolating from them. What is concerning is that in a group of 30 individuals who received a cumulative dose of 6.75 to 9mg dutasteride mesotherapy over 19 weeks, two of those individuals had a significiant reduction in sperm count from 29 to 7 million and a reduction in sperm motility. A change which was thankfully largely recovered they say in 3 months after cessation. Given that, I think anyone for whom the issue of fertility is important, any form of dutasteride should be considered carefully. It does seem to indicate, at least for dut mesotherapy, even in low doses, this stuff is going to go systemic. I guess to what degree physical noticible side effects occur however, that remains largely unknown.

Hi RecycleBin, Thanks for sharing. That's interesting. I've heard about the xyon products. They seem interesting, but the fact many people seem to be reporting side effects does rather put a downer on their supposed system which should be reducing/eliminating systemic absorption. And their dosages seem scarily high I agree. What is the dose of their topical dutasteride? It does always make me wonder when people say sides from dut went away after days, if some of the sides were slightly nocebo (no offence...im just trying to process all info critically)...surely with dutasterides monumental half life of 5 weeks, sides would take a lot longer to go away? ...saying this I did read that the half life and clearance of dutasteride was dependant on dose, and smaller doses were cleared much quicker. Read about it first on follicle thought. Thanks again for sharing mate

Hi again Win. Just thought of two more questions for when you are next on here... Firstly, I believe you mentioned in other posts you tried/used oral dutasteride for quite a while? Did that give you any sides? Why do you choose topical over oral dut? Also...does the topical dut still protect you from hair loss on cycle? Think I read you've used up to 700mg test? Apologies if I've miss read that. Can't remember where I read it now to check i got that correct. Cheers mate.

That's odd. Bottom line I guess is topical dut is very much a new thing, with minimal science thus far. Reaching in the dark really.

Thank you for this information. Glad it's working for you. I've started very low dose and figured I should only increase in small increments every 5 weeks. That way you are not dosing a new dose beyond the length of the half life of the dutasteride. I started at 0.1mg (which is 0.2ml.of my 0.05% solution) every week). Nearly 4 weeks in. No sides but still shedding heavily as before I started it. I guess I should increase to 0.2mg every week after the 5 week mark. I hope to find the sweet spot in the safest manner I can. I still figure, if dut mesotherapy is dosed 0.1mg every month, then a lot of the topical doses seem too high and or too frequent. I believe the general theory is you absorb about 10% of a topical through the skin (although dependent on several factors such as skin location and hydration level...wet skin absorbing at a higher rate). But by this logic, one should be able to take 1mg topically per month to absorb the 0.1mg required in dut mesotherapy. So maybe 0.25mg every week may be a sweet spot dose. Who knows. Interestingly I've noticed Dr Mwamba FUE topical dut is now dosed 0.05%...this has been reduced from 0.1% right??? I presume there must have been some reported some effects. I mean when you read the studies, even low dose dut mesotherapy reduced sperm counts in some with these tiny doses of 0.1mg every month or so. Therefore, the half life of this stuff does worry me quite a bit. I do feel slightly like I'm playing with fire.

Thanks for this message. That's great that it's working for you. Really pleased. I'm sure you could be right. The successful leave the forums. It does create a negative bias for many treatments when you read on forums. Food for thought. May I enquire your dose and frequency? Before you vanish to enjoy life for a bit longer lol

Not too many responses on this thread these days?! Why do I get the feeling many people may have abandoned topical dutasteride?! (Sides?? ineffective??)

I will try and find the exact company name, but it's by a GP called Dr Brad. Very expensive though. Very! I would buy Dr Mwamba but would rather avoid the hassle of import and have it prescribed here.

Also... Has anyone read the 2017 study about dutasteride mesotherapy from Spain where they used just 0.01% (0.1mg) of dutasteride and injected this just 3 times (0months, 3 months and 6 months) and then observed at 9 months? They saw positive results. And did not detect significant differences in hormones from baseline. No reported adverse effects. Admittedly, it was a tiny study with just 6 people. However, it is still very interesting to me. It makes me wonder if we could get away with a WAY LOWER dosing frequency. Eg every 3 months like here. With hopefully a very very low chance of side effects. I have also been reading about the complex pharmacokinetics of dutasteride (parallel linear and nonlinear elimination). It seems its half life is different depending upon dose. The lower the dose the quicker the half life. So maybe using very low doses of 0.1mg or less would also put us into the situation where even if someone reacts badly the drug is more likely to be out of the system quickly.

I'm also wondering about the stability of my topical enthanolic dutasteride 0.05% that I got compounded here in the UK. Its about 6 months old and I've only used it once. I paid quite a lot for it. I'm told the shelf life is 180 days but I'm not inclined to believe that this is true. I bet this stuff is good for a lot longer than this. I read a study showing topical nanoemulsification of dut was good for over 2 years. OK so it may be slightly off 100% but I bet its probably still good to go. I imagine it's more of a marketing thing to get people to restock and pay up again?! Any thoughts anyone?

That's great. So 5 months no sides. Good going for someone who had sides on fin. Think I may finally take the plunge. I'm finding it quite difficult if I'm honest given how unpleasant the fin experience was, and getting worried how long it may take to resolve if it goes wrong (given the half life).

That's good news for you mate. How are you evaluating its effectiveness? Just your hair visually or counting hairs shed? Have you ever used finasteride? Have you experienced any side effects on the topical dutasteride? I will let someone else answer your question as I'm not sure on the stability of the solution you're using.

Anyone else any updates, experiences or thoughts on topical dutasteride to add? Would be particularly interested if anyone had any input as to side effects (or lack thereof) of topical dut ...especially if they had sides with fin previously ?

Hi Slowgrow, Just wondered how you were getting on with RU58841? Is it still working well without side effects? Happy 2023 and all the best

Nice one mate. Well hope it works well for you. I had started to notice a massive reduction in shedding (admit was using afew other things too though) so it is a massive annoyance to have to drop it. Best of luck.

Hi. So I took it for about 4 months earlier in the year and for the first month or two felt reasonably OK. Sides seemed undeniable by about 2nd or 3rd month. But I wasn't sure if it was because I'd upped the topical dose and tried oral fin on some days. After the 4th month I stopped. Took about 6 weeks to feel back to normal. Experimented with 1mg oral but after 4 days my nipples really hurt and were so puffy. Stopped. 3 weeks and felt OK. This time I've been on topical fin and stayed at 0.25mg no higher no oral doses. Been on it for 6 weeks. Sides again deem undeniable unfortunately. Although managed to control the nipple soreness and puffiness with an aromatse inhibitor. But that's a story on its own. Decided I think I will try and topical androgen receptor blocker instead of the topical fin. Maybe I will add 1mg of topical dutasteride once every 2-4 weeks in addition. But probably best I try one thing at a time and see how my body reacts. How are you doing with topical fin? If you feel fine and good...its probably the best and safest approach IMO at this point in time. Wish I had reacted better to it.