Thisisnotatest333

52 minutes ago, BuddyX said:

There are various reports online where people have suffered similar side effects to Fin from Saw Palmetto. 

But it general, it's safer because it doesn't actually work. 

Save your money and eat some Brocoli.  That has DHT blocking properties too and won't help your hair either.

;).

I see i see. Guess i ll be happier with a harder boner than hair. I guess its all about the priorities 

22 minutes ago, LaserCap said:

In the time I've been involved in this industry seldom, if ever, have I seen anyone benefit from "natural products," as you put it.  Propecia, Rogaine, Laser and PRP are the only modalities proven to have an effect on hair loss.  The mechanism of action of each is totally different and are thus synergistic when used simultaneously. So using any one or a combination thereof should yield some results.  Here is the problem......

People in general want to see results.  When they see no visual change a year later, they  think the medication did nothing. 

The medication is not intended to regrow hair.  There is nothing out there that regrows hair other than a hair transplant.

The medication is intended for you to keep what you have. So, if you look the same today as what you did a year ago, the medication did what it was supposed to do.  Sometimes there can be enhancement of the hair.  That is, miniaturized hair, (thinner shafts) can thicken up.  A small percentage of patients do experience this.  And if you do, stay on the medication because it's working great.

With regards to what Thisisnotatest33 outlined above, Rogaine has a tendency to work for about 7 years and then the effect declines.  You are still retaining but not as effectively.  When this happens, patients have a tendency to just forgo the medication.  They then experience very aggressive and rapid loss.  So, stay on the medication regardless of what you see or don't see. 2nd point, I've seen patients just stabilize and only notice normal shedding which I'm guessing its what happened.  You will randomly shed hair throughout your life.  The follicle gets tired and goes into a dormant stage.  The hair eventually returns. (So if you SEE hair, don't worry about it, it will return). 

Unfortunately we do not see hair loss until it's too late.  It is difficult to see miniaturization. Do you realize patients start noticing hair loss when they've lost 50% of their original hair? Crazy.

With regards to Propecia, I'll share my own experience. 

Did my research....How it started, what others were experiencing, etc. I think of the medication as a potential benefit in a couple of fronts.  First there is more testosterone under the medication.  So you should be wanting more, not less.  And while this is only temporary until the body figures out what's happening, it helps my mental/reasoning approach.

Proscar, the parent medication, is taken by millions to address prostate issues.  So, if it's going to help in that department as well...why not.

So I think there is a mental aspect to this but it's all about the approach.  If I was to give you a piece of chocolate and tell you, "this is an amazing piece of chocolate.  It was magical powers but can give you permanent ED," what do you think it's going to happen?

I've been on the medication for more than 20 years.  Never experienced  anything negative.  I've kept my hair and to this day I get complimented often.

More and more, and not just in this forum, I read all the negativity involving Propecia. Mind you, I am aware that some people do experience a side effect, (loss of interest when it comes to sex). And it seems the news keeps getting worse.  Only to find a few months later, "after further research we've now found...." 

 

 

 

Regarding fin side effect. There are some good evidence that ED can be almost permanent if not a very long lasting ED. (IF that happens). But what i am wondering is that, even though you dont have ED, it can still affect your sex drive and the hardness of your errection, even if its a 10% of reduction. Thats something i really dont want to play with, especially when i get older, getting an erection is just even bigger pain in the ass. I am 24 atm and have no issues with it. But what if i m 35+ on DHT blockers, there is no way it doesnt affect my errection even a tiny bit.
That thing right there bothers me a bunch... I do understand there is a psychological aspect and placebo effect of ED in fin users, but its still something i wouldnt want to even think about it, especially when i grow older.

Also one more question. What do people do when minox stop working? What do they switch to? Higher dosages?

1 hour ago, MPBsucks4545 said:

Depends on how aggressive your hairloss is but natural remedies are unproven. Finasteride and minoxidil has not been able to keep mine. Both worked for about 8 years on my crown. IMO the sooner you get in fin the more chance you have of saving your hair.

Fin is a very dangerous drug and it shouldnt be taken this lightly. You cant just get on that and be on it for the rest of your life. Just because most of the people tolerate it, it doesnt mean they dont have "weaker" errections, worsen mood or depression by some % etc. Surpressing DHT is not a game

1 hour ago, MPBsucks4545 said:

FInasteride is proven to work whereas Saw palmetto lacks evidence. 

There are studies where men had good results with saw palmetto. My question was more directed towards why would it be safer than fin when they do the same thing to DHT? Maybe because its weaker?

So i was searching for the finasteride alternative. I m not looking for a total hairloss stop. I just want to delay it as much as possible. By saying that i m not ready to take on risks of taking such drug as finasteride. Now what i m interested in, how is saw palmetto safer than finasteride if it works the same way by suppressing DHT? I ve even read that it helps your libido because it suppresses testosterone from converting to DHT (yet DHT helps libido so i m really confused ). I know that finasteride would be much more effective but i m looking for something that will minimize all the risks and slow down my hairloss since i still have a head full of hair and i m ready to start early on.

Can anyone explain me what is the catch with Saw palmetto, it almost sounds too good to be true.

On 10/4/2019 at 12:09 AM, CosmoKramer said:

Microneedling alone without an “assist” from Minoxidil or Finasteride or saw palmetto will not prevent present or future hair loss due to androgens like dht/estrogen/test if that’s in your cards, it may help bring better blood circulation to your current native hairs and from what I’ve read the better the blood supply to follicles the less harm or delayed harm DHT will have on follicles, so if you just want to microneedle without anything else it may help with circulation and give you a bit more time until better medications or “cures” are on the market.

I haven’t purchased anything from Ali Expresss, I’ve always bought from trusted sellers with good ratings on Amazon and or eBay. If you are going to purchase a derma roller be sure it has titanium needles and check what needle size and buy a few varying needle sizes to test with.

Good luck.

Very informative reply, thanks. I was planning on getting Saw palmetto since i heard its all natural and much safer. I have 2 questions. I can choose between 0.5mm to 1.5mm needles. Which should i start with? Also, Saw palmeetto was meant to used topically? Should i focus on getting the topical version?

On 1/14/2019 at 8:56 PM, yesplease said:

I’m in a similar boat as you. Tried for about a year and a half to no avail to find a fin dose and dosing schedule that would put me under the threshold for sides. 

The truth is that there really isn’t an alternative treatment to take the place of fin. All you can do is stick with min and Niz. Sorry, I know it’s a bummer. I’ve defintely lost ground since I stopped fin over a year ago. Frustrating feeling knowing you have to choose between hair loss and fin side effects. 

You dont have to go through such sides. Sometimes just shaving the hair will do more for your mental health in the long run. You should not live under those side effects.

Recently i ve made a home made shampoo from nettle mixed with vitamin D, olive oil and few more stuff. I was planning on buying a dermaroll too..I was wondering how effective is to fight thinning with natural products, how long will i be able to keep as many hair as possible? I m also having a really good diet, taking oral supplements Zinc, Vitamin D, magnesium.. I want to give it as much time as possible before i m forced to go minox. I m never gonna hop on fin, not gonna risk even 1% with it. There are plenty of evidence that it can screw you up really hard and hair is not worth that risk.. 

So how effective really are natural products? 

I know this was argued here 100 times but its worth talking about it. I see a lot of people saying "try it, if it gives you ED just stop it". In the research https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22789024 apparently majority of ED victims were left wit the long term ED. (96% of the subjects). This just makes me not want to risk it even if its in 1% of the consumers. There are a lot of other medications that do the same thing, but, risking sex life for some looks doesnt seem like a fair trade. What is your opinion on this?

8 minutes ago, Dr. Glenn Charles said:

It is possible that the things you mentioned caused a little hair thinning. Depending on whether or not you have the gene for genetic hair loss will determine if the loss is permanent or temporary.

I will eventually lose my hair, which will be visible in my 30. Right now i m good, but this thinning should recover until i finally get bald from genetics? I mean, if my hair was destined to be here until my 30s, will that hair grow back?

Hello everyone. I ve just returned home from 2 interventions, embolisation of the ear tumor and gamma knife. After the gamme knife, i had a bandage around my forehead and there was alcohol on the temples under the bandage. I ve noticed hair thinning in that area in particular. I was wearing it for 24hours and my hair wasnt washed for 8 days in total. Could it be the alcohol that gave me hairloss or the stress from the Gamma knife head frame itself?

11 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

It may but at a much slower and less pace to get results, I tried microneedling with a 0.5mm derma roller a few years ago and only saw slight results after 6-month, then recently I decided to purchase a derma pen with adjustable needle lengths and use Minoxidil and got really good results in less than 3-months.

i m not looking for results in hair growth but the hair preservation. I still have a head full of hair but  that wont be the  case in the next 5 years lets say. Where is it safe to buy derma rollers? I saw on Ali Express a variety of them but i m not sure if they are safe

On 7/23/2019 at 7:01 AM, CosmoKramer said:

Thanks man!

I definitely think it’s worth a good consistent go if you feel you have some lacking areas, but I get that some probably don’t want another hair routine to add haha.

Will try and update as I see progress.

Does micro needleing work on its own without minox?

On 9/18/2019 at 10:29 PM, Mikey1970 said:

I do it in the thinning area only, to the point of light bleeding.

I was a bit worried about making my hair worse at first but the gamble paid off. Obviously the wounding significantly attracts increased blood flow to the affected area and the follicles have responded like wildfire.

Where did you buy the needle thingy? Can it be effective on its own, without minox?

Just now, Melvin-Moderator said:

Check out @Mikey1970 thread and @CosmoKramer the dermaroller works. I suggest reaching out to these guys for their exact protocol. I need to start myself.

Thanks lad!

On 9/8/2019 at 10:06 PM, LaserCap said:

If you go to a clinic it is likely they'll set you up with a Sunetics unit.  You have to go there 3 times a week and pay a fee.  If you purchase a cap, it is yours to keep and far more convenient to use at home.

I am a fan of LaserCap.  It's made in the US, carries a lifetime warranty and it's the only one in which studies were made.  Dr. Arocha and Dr. Alexander are providers as this is by prescription only.

Recently came across derma roller. How effective it is in slowing down balding? Is it doing anything to stop it, even if its just a bit of contribution on its own, without minox and fin? I was thinking about ordering one from ali express, but dont know what size of the needles should i take, it goes from 0.2 to 4mm

Hello good people.
I m ordering "Derma roller" from Ali express and i was wondering if there is an optimal or recommended pin size for it? Also, what are the other people's experience with derma rollers? Do they work or slow down the hairloss a bit without minox or fin? 

Cheers!

6 hours ago, LaserCap said:

 

At least.  And possibly do the laser at the same time.

What is your opinion on the laser caps? ( since your name is literally laser cap haha). Could i buy a laser cap instead of going to the clinic for laser treatment?

3 hours ago, LaserCap said:

Laser therapy works on the cellular level.  It promotes blood to the area.  More nutrients, help to the follicle. It is used 3 times per week for 30 minutes.  

Minoxidil tolerance? What does that mean?

What about patients that suffer from high blood pressure? The have to take the med daily......If not they can die.  This is not as drastic, but if you can keep all the hair you have...I think, personally, the $5 per month you are going to spend is well worth it.  

So say that 20 years from now you are destined to have nothing.  Do you think you'll be saying "perhaps I should have done it when I had the chance?"

 

I see your point and it also makes sense. What i could say i d do in 20 years is hair transplant. Thats a plan B. Plan c is to accept it and shave it if it gets too bald. Im gonna wait another 6 months and look back on my old photos. If there is a visible change i m either gonna hope 9n some of those medications or accept it. So your recommendation is propecia alone? 

Also i heard about minoxidil tolerance and it doesnt sound good. Reading all this makes me think losing hair isnt thst bad anymore. I might consider propecia but again, i dont like the idea of taking such hormon influencing medication for a long time. It kinda scares me to think i d need to take it forever even if i have no sides. 

2 hours ago, LaserCap said:

So how do you know what sides you'll have?  The only way to know is to try the meds.  If you do experience hem, just stop the med.  What is typically explained during a consultation is the fact there is more testosterone under the medication.  So, you should be wanting more, not less, (interest in sex).  Why people experience side effects is beyond me.

The writing is on the wall.  If you've shown the propensity to lose, you will continue losing.  When?  I have no idea. So, let's say that you are destined not to lose anything. No harm, no foul.  But let's say you will lose all the hair you have.  If you start the medication and it works, you'll likely look the same as you do right now.  So, is retention important to you?  The sooner you get on the med, the sooner you can stop worrying about this. 

Typically the medications show enhancement, if there is going to be any, far more pronounced in the crown area.  Most have reported little to no enhancement in the front.  Thus, I would not count on it. 

Most guys report far more shedding when they start Rogaine.  The suggestion, however, is to continue using it until the body figures out what's going on.  Once it does you'll start noticing retention and a lot less shedding.  Now, to address one of your questions.  Say you use the medication for 10 years.  And 10 years from now you're destined to lose all the hair in the crown.  If you stop the medication, you'll see that same loss.  It would be the same loss you would have incurred in the 10 years but it will be rapid.  So, it's not that you'll lose more.  You'll lose what you were supposed to lose.

Once the hair is gone, it's gone.  You want to wait? Go ahead.  It is likely you'll have less hair then and we'll have to have the same conversation we are having today.

The recommendation is to do Rogaine twice a day.  This way you are getting 100% of the medication.  Using once a day gives you 90%.  So, I would suggest once a day, (at night before you go to bed). A word of caution.

Rogaine tends to be the most effective for about 7 years.  The effectiveness does drop after such time.  Just continue using it.

Have you done any research on laser therapy?  This is external to you so you would not have to worry about side effects.

 

 

Everything you ve just said makes sense. I have never read about laser therapy but it sounds good. How often you have to do the therapy? Is it effective by itself?

2 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

You’ve just made a room full of balding guys jealous haha, looks like you have hair to spare.

Its not what i have now, the thing that worries me is what i will have in 6 years. I d like to save my hair at my 30s..

3 hours ago, LaserCap said:

Regardless of how you style your hair, the part-line is always going to look weaker.  Try combing from right to left and you'll experience the same.  Minor thinning? Perhaps.  Yes, you seem to be maturing your hairline.  Go to the bathroom under a bright light and look closely at the hairs.  The shaft of some is thicker than others.  Off hand I noticed a few.  But that's just it, a few.  We need to halt the loss ASAP.  First so that you can keep the "mop" as transplantedphil eloquently put it, and to keep you from going nuts.

Go do a couple of consultations...have them scope and take photos of the front, top and back and have them email the images to you. Repeat in in 6 months.

Also discuss medical therapy.  (Propecia, Rogaine, Laser and PRP). The mechanism of action of each of these is totally different and, when used together, there is synergism. A word of caution,

Patients tend to freak out when they see hair in the tub, sink, floor, pillow, etc....This is NOT hair loss.  This is shedding.  The follicle gets tired of producing and it takes a vacation.  That hair will return.  This will happen randomly to all the hair in your head throughout your life.  So, if you see hair everywhere smile at yourself because you know this is only temporary.  Miniaturized hair however, is loss.  

The meds are meant to keep what you have. So, if a year later you look the same, the meds did what they were supposed to do.  If you start noticing the "thinner" hairs thicken up, well - that's just icing on the cake.  Only a small percentage of patients experience this.  If you do, continue using the meds as they're working extremely well.  This might seem to you that you are re-growing hair.  No such thing.  Nothing out there regrows anything.  It is enhancement of the hair you have.

Last thing. While stress is not the cause, it can exacerbate the issue....stop it.  Be proactive and get to it.

Thank you for your detailed reply. What bothers me is that i am not ready to risk getting sides from dht blockers. I was thinking about using rogaine though but i m worried about taking it "too soon".

I am still not sure if i want to commit on it and i heard stopping taking rogain can make hairloss faster. The thing is i am not sure what thick hairline looks like. I tried looking at my front hairline and it seemed to me thinner than the other parts of hair. My family balding was usually the crown first rather than temples. Can rogaine by itself help the situation?

I reaaalllyyy dont wanna take propecia..i stopped taking creatine because of the dht boosting study. Should i give it another year before hopping on any kind of medication? As i previously mentioned, my hair didnt change noticable for the more than a year. But even for my brothers this is too soon. One of them lost hair at crown at 27 28. Its not hard for me to apply rogaine twice a day, but what if i m in a position where i cant do it for 2 days or more? I don't like being chained to a substance like that, it feels only like feeding my insecurities about hair. Is there any picture example of a thick front hairline so i can compare it?

1 hour ago, transplantedphil said:

Not necessarily. Just sounds like your father and brother thinned out as well, rather than went bald. 

There are medications you can take - "the big 3", if you haven't tried them already, Your hair looks great, and if you haven't noticed any differences in the last 1.5 years  ... that's awesome.

If it continues to worry you take photos periodically, like every 4-6 months under the same lighting conditions and monitor it. Otherwise (based on those photos) the rest of us are jealous

My father is completely bald, and one of my brothers had crown completely bald too. The 2nd brother didnt get bald, just thinned. I hope to win the gamble of genes like my uncle did. His hair is thin and you can see the scalp but kept a lot of hair in that age that i d be ok with. What bothers me is not how i look now, but how will i look in, lets say, 6 7 years. This is why i get stressed when i see my hair has thinned. I hope its thinning as slowly as possible. I wouldnt take dht blockers because i d like to keep my libido rather than my hair..i wouldnt gamble with that for sure. I was thinking about rogaine though. If i really get upset about my hair i might give it a chance. Also thank you for your time, means a lot

6 hours ago, Steeeve said:

Your hair looks fantastic.

I don’t think you have anything to worry about at this point but if it really bothers you you should do some research on this forum and find a really good, ethical hair transplant doctor who’s going to give it to you straight. I don’t think any doctor would perform a transplant at this point but if you indeed are in the beginning stages of male pattern baldness they may tell you to get on some form of preventative medication.

Is there any history of male pattern baldness on either side of your family?

My father and brother. The other brother kept his hair in 30s but it had thinning. My fathers brother is like 50 and still kept a lot of hair. My mothers side is all full with hair. So i guess its 50 50 for me. But i already have signs of thinning so i ll probably get fucked in 30s..