kirkland

From this:

To this:

Went from this:

9 days out from surgery. Most of the scalp is clean now. Donor area is healing nicely. Itchy af. Density has really exceeded my expectations. It could be one and done for me. 

I think this question of "How Much Should you Pay for your First Hair Transplant" can be asked in general about how much one is willing to pay for a cosmetic surgery in the age of medical tourism. My wife has done a number of 'vampire facials' in South Korea because she used to go there regularly and the costs of this type of surgery is much lower than in Canada, probably due to competition in the plastic surgery market in Korea. India and Turkey are no different when it comes to hair transplants. There is lots of competition and market pressures to keep costs within a certain range. Those lower prices encourage unethical standards to maximize profits for the hair mills but they also constrain prices on the top end clinics in these countries as well. If you are willing to do the research and you are willing to travel, there is great value out there and no need to spend 2x, 3x, 4x or more for the same surgery in the N. America and Europe with similar outcomes.

Here's an example of someone recently with 2000 grafts in roughly the same circumstances as you with roughly the same area to cover. Would have to wait for the results to see how it turned out but their surgeon determined that 2000 grafts, not 1000 grafts, was necessary for the required density.

A few things going on here: first, as others have mentioned, you still need some more time to assess the final results; second, it's possible that some of the hairs taken in the FUT strip were miniaturized and so they are not coming in thick in the hairline; third, if it is still not to your satisfaction by month 12, a few hundred healthy grafts taken by FUE can easily fill in this hairline more and you should probably consider going to a more experienced FUE surgeon. Consult with at least 2 doctors who are recommended HT surgeons through this site.

Can we assume that this was the area that was transplanted?

I am going to roughly guess about 2000 in frontal third.

I chose the exclusive package - Rs 201/graft with Dr. Bansal doing design, slits and crucial extractions.

During the in-person consultation, Dr. Bansal did inspect my donor area with magnification. 

Looks great @IrishWarriorI am really looking forward to your updates. 

And I agree with @Gatsbyabout waiting for at least 1 year before you try SMP in the scars. When I had SMP done back in 2015, my technician, who had already done a fair bit of work for FUT scars, told me that it can be hard to get the SMP to take in scar tissue. And I assume that if you are going to Milan to have the work done, you will be visiting the Milena Lardi clinic? Probably about a good a clinic in the world for tricopigmentation.

58 minutes ago, Andy78 said:

How about someone who works from home & not office but would want to be off work for the discomfort post surgery & pain. With long 12 hr work it could be tiring.

5 days out from the last surgery (I had 2 days of surgery - Monday and Tuesday - so I consider counting down from the end of the second day), the discomfort is minimal. Only really still feel tenderness along the donor area. Recipient area has no discomfort. If you can book off as long as possible from work post-surgery, do so. If you can't, the level of discomfort is bearable for working, even long hours, after about 5 days. Bear in mind, I had 3500 grafts over two days. If you are a bigger surgery over 3 days, for example, that timeline may need to be extend. Plus everyone's healing capacity will be different. But, yeah, if you can book off two weeks from work for both surgery and post-op healing time, I would recommend.

3 hours ago, Ronny4050 said:

Thanks for all the info @kirkland . 

I'm actually flying to New Delhi from Canada as well for a procedure on Nov 12th. 

1) Wondering how your e-medical visa process went? I've been told Eugenix can assist with a medical visa letter for the consulate but am not sure if that will be enough when applying or if I'll need a letter from a Canadian doc too, as I haven't spoken to a fam doc in years and am not sure how to approach them about writing a letter as well or the wording required. Am definitely concerned about this and hoping it won't become a hassle..

Eugenix will provide you a letter with the requisite details of the treatment needed for the medical visa application. It is a form letter. Have you downloaded it from the Indian consulate's website?

As part of the medical visa application process, I was also asked for a note from a Canadian physician providing clearance to travel to India for a hair transplant surgery. I asked my new family doctor to just simply state in the letter that I consulted with him about my visit to a hair transplant clinic in India (Eugenix) during the particular dates of when the surgery is booked. Your doctor does not have to endorse your decision - just ask them to state that they have been consulted about the decision. Make sure the doctor includes the date of the surgeries, that the surgery is with Eugenix in New Delhi, India and have the doc sign and date the form.

Best to start to get on that asap in the event you have trouble finding a doctor who can provide that note. Just tell the doctor that the Consulate requires a note from a local physician in Canada.

2) When trying to a book my stay via Hotels.com I noticed many locations have a note about covid restrictions such a restricted international travelers booking for those even with a medical visa .. was this an issue you ran into as well? 

"Entry restrictions do not apply to: -Indian citizens; -Indian Visa holders (except eVisa, tourist visa, and medical visa holders);"

Did not have any problems with COVID restrictions in the hotel. Eugenix provides you with 2 complimentary nights at the DoubleTree Hilton Gurugram Baani Square, which is located a few minutes car ride from the clinic. It makes the most sense to just extend your stay at that hotel if you are going to be in Delhi for more than 2 nights. You can either extend the stay when you arrive at the hotel or now but check about availability. The front desk did mention that most rooms were booked during my stay so the hotel can be quite busy.
Appreciate the insight!

I was informed of this by the British Airways agent when I had to re-book my flight home from London. They told me that it was to allow for enough time to get tested and get the results before boarding the plane back to Canada. My original flight plan had a 2 hour layover in London from Delhi back to Toronto. BA cancelled that return flight because they were advised that it was not enough time for the process of testing in the UK. Since I had no choice but to re-book, I didn't check the gov't of Canada website on a minimum 4 hour rule. But the quickest turnaround time for a molecular test that Canada will accept is the RT-LAMP test. In Heathrow, you can get the test done in one of their testing centres located there. You have to book the test and pay in advance. But the quickest they guarantee the result is 3 hours (on their website, it says 2 hours but when you actually go to book, it says 3 hours).

Melvin's recent posting on the myth of a quick turnaround healing time of one week, for those figuring out how much time to book off work, is spot on. The hairline/midscalp was done 6 days ago, the midscalp/vertex was done 5 days ago. The scabs are not ready to come off. If I had taken a week off from work in the hopes that upon my return, no one will have noticed, this is what I would look like strolling into the office tomorrow morning. Pancake makeup is not suggested. Seriously.  

5 day post-op pic. Everything is healing nicely. Both the donor and recipient areas can be touched gently with little discomfort (the punctures in the donor area, which I did not take a pic of, are still a little tender which is to be expected).

12 hours ago, H3ri said:

@Ronnie Firstly congratulations and you'll take comfort in making a great decision! I stayed at the Westin Gurgaon, having previously stayed there on previous trips to India I knew the high quality to expect. 

It's 5 star and will be one of the best hospitality and top notch quality experiences you'll encounter.

I got to interact with the executive chef and head chefs, executive housekeeper, general manager, and food and beverage directors - I bestowed my thanks and comments to them and individuals who made the stay enjoyable having stayed for 13 nights in total. 

They have 4 different restaurants each with head chefs from country of restaurant like Italian and Japanese, top spa/sauna/steam, and beautiful outdoors/indoors area. 

They had laundry facility, which I used. They have chaffeur services and concierge who will arrange/accommodate anything. It was Navratri when I was in India and reply wanted to do garba/dandiya, the general manager Rahul took it upon himself to find me a place. 

I would stay at any of the 3/4/5 star hotels in Gurgaon close to Eugenix (10-15 min drive away). There are plenty of them to choose from. Check their amenities and rates. 

Eugenix has a corporate account with the DoubleTree Hilton Gurugram Baani Square. That's where I stayed. It was fine for the amenities I needed - clean room, adequate buffet breakfast choices, room service, good menu choices for in-hotel restaurant. Plus it is about a 4 minute ride from the clinic. Eugenix will put you up there as a default for their complimentary 2-night accommodations. If you decide to stay longer, you can ask them for the Eugenix corporate rate. My 3 night additional stay with some room service, a couple of international calls and return drive to airport was less than $300 Canadian, which is good value for the quality of the stay. 

@IrishWarriorwe just missed each other at Eugenix. I'm glad that the surgery went well for you. As there is an intense amount of interest in Eugenix right now, please do share as much information, including pics, as you are comfortable with. 7k grafts after 4 FUT's is going to pique the interest of a lot people, including myself, as to what's now possible for the previously considered impossible. 

I won't get tired of saying this: Eugenix has taken FUE surgery to another level. 

Dr. Sethi's da bomb - he really is a great guy. I love interacting with him. He's like a kid! When we went out for dinner a couple of nights ago, it was like keeping up with a hurricane. 

Haha - thanks @MazAB Did Eugenix post my video? I had just sent it to them and told them they could use it for promo material but, man, did they post it fast. Where did you see it?

As I kick back in London for a day before my connecting flight back to Toronto, I thought I would share my 3-day post op pics. Sorry they are not the best of quality. When I get back to Canada, I will get my wife to take some more close-up higher res shots so that you can better evaluate the progress. Eugenix is once again showing how professional and caring they are. Each day, post-op, for at least the next 7 days, they send a reminder through WhatsApp about following the post-op care routine and make themselves fully available if there are any concerns. I had some swelling around the temple regions and brow arches yesterday and a lot of swelling around the back of the head but all of that has mostly subsided at this point. 

Please make sure that you bring a small, empty spray bottle to put some saline solution in when you are flying home. Eugenix provides a large spray bottle of the saline solution plus a large, spare bottle of the solution but they are not convenient when you are on a flight and want to get the bathroom to keep the recipient area sprayed (every two hours or as best you can during a flight). Much easier to deal with if you have a small spritzer bottle to take with you to the bathroom.

Also not sure if it is only some dispute between the UK and India but British Airways had us wear full-face shields again for the outbound flight to London. They had the same policy on the inbound flight to Delhi. It created a concern for my because the soft, elastic headband has to stretch across the back of the donor region when being put on. The headrest for the face shield can be placed lower on the forehead to avoid touching the recipient area but you can't get around stretching that band across the back of the head. Luckily, everyone ditches the shield as soon as they get on the plane so I am assuming that it is only a formality for boarding the aircraft itself in India.

5 hours ago, H3ri said:

We didn't get to cross paths @kirkland. Wishing you the very best outcome and rooting for your progress as we're so close together on the HT dates and similar hair loss pattern. 

 

 

Thank you. Are you at Eugenix now?

Ok boys - winging my way out of India in a few hours. Had dinner with Dr. Pradeep and Amrin plus a couple of Eugenix clients tonight. Got the chance to meet a couple of you through Dr. Pradeep's phone and it was nice to put a face to a screen name. I love Dr. Pradeep's passion for his work and his relationship-building skills. I really don't think there is any other HT doctor out there who would take the time to hang with his clients, phone up other clients and connect them and build a larger sense of community. The whole experience here the past few days was satisfying, tiring, joyful, and fulfilling. I'm grateful to the Eugenix Team, Dr. Bansal for her oversight, and everyone on this site who gave me feedback throughout the journey. If there is anything I can do to help those of you yet to come to Eugenix, please let me know. It took me years of dithering, frustration, humiliation and determination to finally be at this point. I am glad for the choice I made.

22 minutes ago, MazAB said:

@kirklandI could not agree more. They really do operate like one cohesive unit. Dr Pradeep and Dr Arika run a tight ship, but the respect factor they have with all their workers and the admiration the workers have towards them was truly a special thing to witness up close. Where other clinics fall short in my opinion is not have a staff with that degree of dedication and commitment to world class results. They truly do take pride in what they do!

One defining moment came for me yesterday when I returned to the clinic to have the donor area cleaned. I was asking a couple of techs who worked on me for their names as I wanted to mention them by name specifically when I do my review write-up. They insisted that their individual names and efforts were not to be highlighted; rather, they just wanted me to refer to them all as the Eugenix team. Great stuff.

28 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

What I've noticed is that the Eugenix team from the consultants to the technicians are all proud of the work they do, it's like a big family. Credit to everyone who's instrumental in the process from start to finish. 

Absolutely, They have a large team consisting of doctors, technicians, marketing, patient care consultants, videographers, etc. Their current clinic has 4 operating theaters plus a spare. Their new facility, currently under construction behind the old one, will have 9 operating theaters with plans to expand to 20! This is not a Mom-and-Pop operation. It's well coordinated. They also often work around the clock to accommodate international patients who are experiencing jet lag and so will schedule a surgery in the middle of the night. When I went to my pre-op meeting on Sunday around 8 pm, they had one of the operating rooms at least in full go mode. And it is a big family. You can see how the staff behave around Dr. Bansal and Dr. Sethi - they are like the parents to a large group of kids. And many of them are under 40.  

On 10/11/2021 at 2:08 AM, BoldnotBald said:

great to see your courage to have taken the plunge.

and it looks as if you´ve already mastered the first challenges - i suppose as a sort of warm up before the upcoming ones. 😉

 

in terms of asking questions it would be good to know how / on which ground / based on which calculation eugenix will be able to predict

1. how many grafts would be needed to cover your bald area

In my initial consultation with Eugenix two years ago!, Dr. Bansal suggested 3500 grafts after seeing the pics of my scalp and my total graft count turned out to be near 3600. She obviously has an eye and the experience for knowing how much will generally be needed. She did tell me on my first day meeting her this past Monday that she sometimes has to adjust that number when meeting the person as she can't judge head size, graft thickness, etc by pics alone. But as for how she makes that calculation, I would say it goes by the experience of someone who has done thousands of surgeries and not by any particular scientific method. So if she provides an estimate through seeing your pics, chances are that she is pretty close to that same number when seeing you in person. Now, having said that, if you tell her in person that you want more coverage say, for the crown, then she will adjust the estimate accordingly. But she is not shy to tell prospective patients that their goals are unrealistic given their donor characteristics.

2. how many grafts can be extracted in total

Not sure if you are asking me specifically how many grafts can be extracted from my donor region or just in general how many grafts can be extracted from a donor region. That all depends on individual donor characteristics. I did not ask her how many grafts I have left but I am guessing that, based on other people's hairloss patterns similar to mine, I could probably get another 1000-1500 safely from the donor region without getting into borderline overharvesting territory. You may have different numbers available than me.

a. from your scalp

See above.

b. from your beard

She didn't give me an estimate from my beard area but she did say I had decent characteristics and so I infer that I could get around 1500-2000 grafts based on what I have seen from others. If you are particularly hirsute, then that number will be higher. I think Dr. Bansal is more conservative than Dr. Sethi in terms of where and how much she will extract from the beard area.

3. which tools / formulae they use and which and how many trichoscopic measurements they would take pre-op from which areas

Sorry but you are asking the same question but from a different angle. Dr. Bansal does not use any tools in particular to determine the number of grafts available for meeting the expectations of the patient. She asks you what your expectations are and then she judges how much it would approximately take to reach those expectations according to your donor region and beard region characteristics. High Norwood and good beard? Then the ratio for donor hair to beard hair will be higher. If you are looking for some kind of formal calculations made that are taken from a variety of testing instruments, then you will be disappointed. Years of experience in hair transplants from all different humans has given her a good eye.

The only instrument she used in our in-person consultation just prior to surgery was to mark out the hairline as there are specific rules when it comes to distance from glabella to hairline. She has an instrument which fits across the forehead to allow her to make those precise calculations of distance plus a laser measuring device (?) to also assist her in making the shape of the hairline.

If interested, Dr.Bansal has a YouTube video where she demonstrates how the hairline is measured out according to the natural ratios that exist on the human face. She uses her son as the model and does a great job of explaining how the human head follows natural ratios when it comes to the shape, distance of hairline relative to other features of the face like the glabella.