Taken4Granted

Hm, tough call. Hair loss in your twenties sucks. Older women are a lot more mature about it. 

Need better pictures and a proposed hair line. I haven’t had mine done yet, but I need a lot more work (full frontal) and I feel 3000 is adequate with a skilled surgeon. I can see 2500 for you if you’re going for density, but it would be foolish to assume you’re not gonna need more work in the future, so then it’s a question of donor supply.

@Sam818

I’ve reluctantly reached the same conclusion about LA. I’m in SoCal and have decided to go out of state for my first HT.

@SpareHair

How long did it take to get in with Nadimi? Did you have to book way in advance like ppl do with Konior?

Sounds like it could be done if it were a priority, which it isn’t. The technology has to be developed, then commercialized, then refined. I’d be surprised if it happened in our lifetime, but then cell phones didn’t exist when I was a kid.

Same age here. When I say mine has stabilized, I mean it’s no longer aggressive and rapidly changing. I don’t think it stops for anyone, more like it asymptotically approaches some end state that becomes fairly clear and predictable once you “stabilize”.

Thanks, @Melvin-Moderator. I just requested a consultation. 

@Melvin-Moderator

Awesome, glad to hear it. So I’ve talked to one surgeon so far who recommended 2000 grafts FUE and quoted $12/graft. It’s out of my budget. I’m aiming for 3000 grafts and $6/graft (strip). I realize FUE is more expensive, but I’m starting to worry I don’t have the budget to go to a good doctor, and I’m not taking a chance. I may have to postpone this.

Any luck with this?

Fin sides are quite real, but I’m happy for you that you have the luxury of doubting it.

Thanks @Melvin-Moderator, def agree about being cautious. Your suggested hairline is a bit more aggressive than I planned precisely bc I know I’m going to need more work. Do you think 3500 grafts by the strip method is gonna cut it for the front?

I was thinking for good density with the limited donor grafts, I would need to go with something like below. The yellow would be a thinner fringe and the thicker density would be inside the red.

@Gasthoerer @Melvin-Moderator

Here are some more angles for you. Yes, NW2 sounds about right. I was thinking I’d get about 3500 grafts in the front, grow my hair about 4-6x as long as it is now, which will cover up the back and top pretty well. It’s definitely thinning there, but it looks worse than it is because I cut the back and top shorter than the sides and front because I have a weird-shaped head. I’m adding one looking directly down from the top with concealer in to show you what I’d want it to look like when it’s restored, though I realize I’d have to grow it up a lot more to achieve decent coverage.

When I looked into this last, I felt Konior was the way to go. I remember his yield was really consistent.

Hey @Melvin-Moderator, thanks your help. I’m hoping to get back to a NW I-II in the front and cover the back as much as possible with the leftover donor supply. I do expect at least two procedures, one large one addressing the front, another one addressing the back in 5-10 years, and likely a supplementary one to address density and so on. I have no interest in taking finasteride ever again, as I would rather be totally bald. I’ve been off of it for several years and have been fairly stable with a good sense of where this is going.

I actually visited Mohebi ca. 2010, as he’s very nearby. I saw Meshkin, too. It felt too risky and premature then. I will mention that while Mohebi didn’t hesitate to recommend surgery, Meshkin (much to his credit) advised me to wait. He was sure I’d lose more than I’d gain and that I’d be back soon after. Both have done pretty good and pretty bad work, as I remember.

Anyway, trying to understand what I can realistically expect to pay and to gain with a top surgeon. It still seems like a very risky gamble.

@giegnosiganoe

Yes, it reversed what you see in my profile pic by a significant margin and set the clock back by a couple years. It started going again a couple years later and got to the point where I had visible hair loss and had to cut it short. That’s when I decided that it wasn’t worth the sides. There was a year or two of accelerated loss after that, but it eventually stabilized. Looking back, I I think it was good for buying a little time but only delayed the inevitable and certainly didn’t cut it as a long-term solution. I feel like it worked really well for me, too, which probably goes hand-in-hand with the side effects. Ofc everyone’s experience is different, but I would tell younger guys to plan for an uphill battle and start adjusting your look so the transition is less abrupt.

Hey Folks,

I’m considering a HT but it’s been a long time since I looked into this. I could use some informed opinions. I’m 34 and I live in SoCal. I’ve been off finasteride for several years, never taking it again. My questions:

What is achievable? 

How many grafts? What cost?

Who are the best surgeons these days? I know there’s a list of recommended doctors here, but it has a number of docs I know to avoid; so, with respect, I’m looking for something more specific than “see the list”. 

Thanks, guys.

41 minutes ago, giegnosiganoe said:

Have you been on it since the age of 22? Do you have a current picture you could share to show how your hair loss has progressed?

I did take fin 1mg for 6-7 years, which slowed it down and bought me the continuity I needed to adjust. Ultimately, I decided it wasn’t worth the sides anymore. I’ve had 4 gyno surgeries and still have hormonal issues today. I’d rather be bald than ever touch it again.

I’m attaching current photos: 

- 1 right before a shower with yesterday’s toppik still on

- 2 right out of the shower, front and back

The front is unsurprising given the early photo, but even in that forgiving light you can see the back is going to be a big problem. By 40-50, I’ll be NW5+ easy.

I’m gonna get married in 2022, so I’m at the moment where I need to decide whether I’m doing this. I was hoping it would be less risky by now, but it looks like hack jobs are still very common.

I considered it at 22 as well. I was distraught about losing my hair (profile pic is from back then). Now I’m 34. As much as I wanted to have my old self back, I saw enough poor SOBs on this forum to know that it was too much of a gamble. The best outcome at this age is that you waste good donor hair before you have any clue what you’re dealing with, and then you end up chasing this thing with multiple surgeries you probably can’t afford with little chance of coming out of it in one piece. The worst case? Oof. I lack the words to describe that life. 

Hey,  first post in many, many years. I’ve been losing my hair since about age 22. I looked into HT then and concluded that the risk was too high considering everything that would change, even if I had gone with a good surgeon. Now I’m 34 and I know I made the right call. I’ve lost hair in places I didn’t expect. My profile pic is from my early twenties btw.

It’s obvious that you’re gonna have your hands full in 5-10 years. Messing around with your donor hair for the sake of that small space around your hair line is ridiculous. Trust me, I know it’s hard around the time when it starts to show (you’re not even quite that far), but chill and plan ahead. You’ll be glad you did. 

I eat too much spicy bbq and it makes me shed. Not literally, but you get my point.

My hair is so sensitive to disruptions that even the slightest disturbance in the status quo can precipitate a shed.

One time I missed two consecutive days of minoxidil because I was on a trip with no personal space. It took a looong time to live that one down. Maybe I'm the only one like that, though.

In conclusion, thank God for Toppik.

@takenforgranted.

 

thnx mate for ur input

 

well my body has always been natural with cuts on my muscles and i have always been working out since my teenage. its the last two years i hardly do weight training n just run 2 or 3 times a week. laziness has finally taken me over i did use a kind of steriod in tablet form for 3 or 4 months some 5 years ago.

 

i have taken creatine on and offf and there r conflicting views abt if it has some effect on hair as per my research on internet. but yeah who knws if it realy does.

 

can u suggest me some online place where i can buy finasteride ?

r u based in u.k?

sorry broski, I'm in California. Dude, you're one lucky man if you can maintain that body weight and those abs at the same time w/o drugs. Usually it's one or the other, but there are those guys out there with good genetics. Maybe give me some pointers on diet?

as for buying fin online, it's a gamble. Don't buy from topills.com is all I can tell you. I do know some good companies in the US that you can get great quality liquid solutions for any pharm you would ever need that doesn't have to be injected. Too bad they rarely even ship to Canada.

my advice is, if you can't find a source, go to this forum:

ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS

set up an account, build a rep, and PM some vets for a source. As long as they trust you, they will prob find you a UK source. In fact, my rep is pretty good, so I might be able to check for you. PM me about it if you want to go that route.

Taken

ps. don't let the name of the forum provoke judgements. Any info you need about managing your hormones is on that board. It's an invaluable resource.

I get your point.

I meant nothing by "toxins" except a metaphor for ethereal, intangible, almost mythical nuisances to our hair follicles.

And my point with that sentence was just to say that there isn't much reason to believe Egyptians hadn't been fighting hair loss ever since the beginning of their civilization 5000 years ago (as opposed to, say, after the second Intermediate Period when Greek cultural influences became ubiquitous). I used the word toxins actually to point out there were no toxins. To mean that seriously would be daft (not that toxic substances haven't been around since the beginning).

And below is the syllogism I was proffering

A: Man has suffered from MPB for millennia

B: The ills of modern civilization did not exist back then

C: MPB should not be attributed to modern civilization

Last, as I said before, I do agree there may be a connection between our modern environment/lifestyle and the early/severe onset of MPB, as with puberty. Still, I hold that any such connections would be profoundly subordinate to the root cause of MPB and, regardless, are at this point well beyond the reach of our current understanding of the hair cycle (and esp. that of some web site publisher peddling pseudo-scientific speculation).

And, as ever, I say these things with respect and with the intention to dissent like a gentleman. Please pardon my tone if it has offended you, but I must say what I think.

Taken

if I had used that excerpt as the premise of any refutation, it would actually have been a red herring.

impugning that excerpt as one of my premises/conclusions is a straw man

I can't believe how obstinately illogical you are, man. Honestly. But go on your merry way thinking we're stupid or brainwashed. This is one of those pseudo-debates that will never go anywhere. I could really get into this, but you're not "bringing" it in a way that is worth the effort.

btw, Caesar wore a laurel wreath to conceal his hair loss at public events. That was about 2060 years ago.

Ancient Egyptians rubbed various oils and animal fats on their heads to make hair grow. I can't say when they began doing that stuff, but i doubt insidious nile toxins suddenly made them all go bald late in their history. The Great Pyramids of Giza, btw, were built almost 5000 yrs ago.

Also, we share genes with lesser primates that cause them AGA as well. Balding macaque. I say this, of course, because it's telling about pre-history.

Again, I really don't want to be offensive. Everyone has the right to an opinion. Sometimes I'm just shocked at the way people make hasty conclusions and dig up absurd rhetoric to "prove" them. I think it's very telling about the state of politics in the US these days.

Rant over.

which doc did this? do you think that will deliver sufficient density?

edit - looks like Barusco. Not familiar. Is he a top shelf doctor? How was the pricing and what are your expectations? Let's see that donor!

So far my docs have recommended the same number of grafts, but as you can see in my avatar I have bigger probs than the one-inch hair line area. That's what kills me about it, bc my diffuse thinning will have me bald on the whole frontal third with a perfect ring of hair on the front. Classic retard. Anyway, I'm jealous. Good luck, bro.

Taken4Granted,

 

I had a total of 5200 grafts with Dr. Konior and paid $21,900 or a very reasonable $4.21 per graft (all of which the doc himself placed). Konior almost always gives you more grafts than you pay for, so he's really not any more expensive than the other top docs (he put in 2800 grafts the first time and I paid for 2500 and he put in 2400 grafts the second time and I paid for 2000). I'm guessing he knows he can get more at the time he quotes you but is having you pay for the absolute minimum he'll get.

 

Anyway, I was in your boat as well. When I first started looking into HTs years ago, I swore I could only spend $4k tops. Then, after a while, I decided $6k tops if I saved extra long. I waited and saved and things changed financially for me and when I finally committed, I was at $11.9K for the first time, an astronomical amount in my book. Yet, I made a downpayment and had a 0% loan through Carecredit and paid the operation off in a year (foregoing expensive vacations and an expensive car). I'm now paying my second operation off in the same way. Basically for the price of a new car, I have a new lease on life, increased confidence, and the satisfaction of smiling every time I look in the mirror now. Maybe it's just me, but I'll take that trade off any day. I recommend going slow, gathering plenty of information and waiting until you are in a financially responsible position to pull the trigger. Then go with a very good doctor. You'll save money and so much stress and anguish in the long run.

Sounds like it's about doing your research, making the right decision, and not being a cheapass. In short, it's about being patient, start to finish. At the ripe old age of 25, this is a challenge, especially since none of my peers seem to have this prob.

As for Bangkok. That just sounds scary. Should I not be averse to getting work done in SE Asia?

You guys are awesome. I could easily have ruined my life without this board.

Taken