the B spot

Bank, I agree that awareness and demand has been raised with regards to these mega-mega sessions. What I disagree with is the idea that consumers are driving/controlling the market. What I think is happening is these sessions are opening up a completely new section of the market. Most of us still require several sessions to reach our goals. I think we are seeing younger patients seeking more of an "instant gratification" session, which I can really relate to. I chose not to pursue a HT in the mid 90's in my early 20's, simply because the thought of multiple surgeries and a lifelong commitment to more surgeries later on in life turned me off. Entering my 30's and with larger sessions available, it is a no-brainer at this point in my life. I do have to say that before doing 3 years of research, that I would have RAN to a HT doctor for a 4 to 6000 graft session. I'm a little older now, and I am resigned to the fact that my hairloss has progressed into a type 6 almost 7 on the norwood scale, so I am glad I did not try to restore my original hairline as I would be shit out of luck right now. I am certainly very impressed by the results of these massive sessions and I hope that fellow sufferers continue to have great success.

Spur, most of us sufferers choose to optimize the frontal region, with a "plan" to at least hit the crown. If you are a NW5 or higher you could think about starting from the middle out, as opposed to front to back, etc... Of course, this depends solely on your physiology, and your surgeon to devise the correct treatment program, specific to you. Maybe you could post some pictures, or find out the area of coverage needed for front, mid-scalp, and crown areas. (ie. 50 cm/2 in the crown, nothing midscalp, and 40 cm/2 in front). After that you can think about the density you are looking for, and go from there. This will also help you orient yourself as to the amount of grafts needed versus donor supply when you have go to a consultation. Hope this helps you out!!!!

Did you try Beano????????

Mud, I looked at your pictures on hairlosshelp, and you are going to look phenomenal, my friend!!!!!! I had 3100 done the first time, and I am hoping for at least 3200 to 3500 the next time, which should put me near you in the front and some decent coverage in the back. I am following you in that I hope I have enough to do 1500 to 2000 after two 3000+ sessions. I have about 200 cm of baldness to cover, so after 8000 grafts I should see 50 in the front and 30 from the midscalp back, and be looking mighty fine!!!!!!! (this is all figuratively speaking of course!)

Buttercup, (I love the Princess Bride, BTW) Many are still waiting and watching in response to the amazing procedures being done at H&W. The willingness to push the envelope and (pardon the Star Trek reference) to boldly go where no man has gone before, is necessary to affect change. Both paris and GP bring up the point that these monster sessions are not for everyone, nor should they be. Each of these candidates seem to possess an abundance of donor hair, and tremendous scalp laxity (and a pretty deep pocketbook!!!). What I think we will start seeing as a response within the HT industry is Dr.s moving average sessions of 1500 to 2500, to 3000 or 3500 for the right candidates. What this means is more labor intensive sessions, and additional staffing as well. I am not sure if this will raise pricing or not, we will have to wait on that. (hopefully not!) Now back to the issue--- Some of the questions raised by these sessions- Can dense packing past 50-60 g/cm2 achieve 99% growth and is it necessary? If 5000 grafts are transplanted and 500 don't grow, how will we know? Is intense donor depletion in late 20's early 30's safe 10-15 years down the road? Are these sessions really 1 pass, or do most still require a tune-up? What do the scars on these patients look like 6months, 1 year, 18 months post op? These are questions that run through my mind and I am sure many others as well. Personally (IMO)I would prefer 2 3000 to 3500 sessions in order to truly achieve a "perfect" HT. Again though, that is my opinion. Again, I certainly think the right clinic is performing these operations, and as we have had no negative feedback whatsoever from these patients, H&W is making a believer out of many. I have had this discussion many times, and it comes down to philosophy. Does a massive session produce the results of 2 large sessions that equal the amount of grafts placed at one time? Some say yes, some say no. Because we only get a few shots at getting this right, I have a feeling we are going to see something in middle, with the "best" Dr's simply moving up average sessions to 3000-3500. As in everything we have a spectrum, on one side we have 5-6000 sessions and the other 1500 sessions. I just think time will tell the tale here, with quite a few satisfied patients. BTW, it is only a few years ago that sessions of 3000 were considered "unsafe" and now we see them becoming an industry norm, for doctors that truly want to service and satisfy clients. This is a great thread, and one that bears watching. I would hope that we see some responses from doctors as well, just to get their perspective.

Big D, your indivdual makeup coupled with surgical methods will determine how fast you heal, shed scabs, lose redness, etc... 2 weeks is about the right time needed if you are unable to wear a hat after the procedure. Of course that depends on the size of your session and where the grafts are placed as well. I had a larger session, and I am pretty pale during the winter months, but my redness dissapated quickly. I think the constant application of Grafcyte spray and religiously washing my hair with Nioxin seemed to help as well. When you do your consult with Shapiro, make sure you make them aware of your concerns in regards to not shaving the top of your head. Not shaving the top can affect session size and graft orientation. Make sure you look up a great post by Dr. Victor Hasson on shaving the recipient area before you make that decision.(A MUST!) Other than that, you will be in great hands, and keep us posted. Cheers!!!!

Just looking at your before pictures and then looking at the area you are describing, I think you are ok M. I am sure that during your consult at Dr. Fellers clinic, they described folliculitas, which is probably the cause of the pimples. The larger spots could be a few transected hairs, or simply the result of subconcious itching while you are sleeping! (I know about that!!!). Of course this is only my opinion, but it is early, and you have a few months to go before you see the benefits of your decision. Anyway, just hang in there, take it easy, and keep us updated!!!

D, congratulations on coming through ok. I hope this life-changing experience will allow you to give back to other fellow sufferers. It looks like your hairline will be restored back to normal, and hopefully make you happy. I do have a few questions,so feel free to PM me if you like, so that I can ask them. Other than that, happy growing, and I hope you will continue to post your progress in the coming moths. Cheers!

Dr. Paul, Thank you for taking the time to identify yourself, and I second Gorpy in looking forward to your sucess stories.

Posted by Mudpuppy. Do I think Dr. Ron Shapiro is top notch? Yes Do I think Matt made a bad call on my donor? I still think so but theres no harm done Did he do it to book me for 3 procedures or for my own good? im honestly struggling with that one Do i wish i had a bigger session? Yes To sum it up i think Dr. Shapiro performed a miracle with only 2523 Graphs in front and back, it is so natural you cannot tell anything and for that im very thankful, when i see other pictures of 2500 Graphs and what they got i feel lucky that i started with Dr. Shapiro. This is a hard decision for me to change clinics for my next procedure (Really hard!!!) but i have done my research and feel confident in Dr. Hasson, im going to be more aggressive than Dr. Shapiro would have done on me by about 1 thousand Graphs or more. If my post came of as a moderator, sorry, that was not my intention. Now, as to the nature of your reply to me: You say this is about sharing your views, and for me to back off. Exactly which experience are you speaking off? The response you gave here, does not add up, period. This is what I am referring to when I said I did not like you posting crap that DIRECTLY contradicts your previous posts. In this post we have someone simply looking for information and clarification, and he has received it. BTW, How else do you think doctors learn to do HT's? They train under other (hopefully) doctors, and hone their skills that way. EVERY DOCTOR. H&W, Shapiro, Haber, Konier consults, and inumerous phone conversations with consultants. Oh,and BTW, my HT was the day before Coalition meeting hosted by Dr. Shapiro, so I was able to actually speak with several doctors as they examined me 1 day post op, along with conversing about the use of different slitting techniques that I remember very vividly. I guess I should have just left your post alone, as it is quite irrelevant, to the topic. Oh,and I don't need to defend Ron Shapiro, you have already done that in a previous post. You are certainly enititled to your opinion, but as far as doctors go, we are in agreement.

Thanks Robert!!!!!!! Good Luck with everything!!!!!!!! Don't piss on your boots!!!!!!!!! Cheers!!!!!!!

TOO FUNNY GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!! Bezane, what a problem to have, Shapiro or Keene? I think most would agree that you can't go wrong either way you go. I am not sure about the female/male thing, but I agree with the bigger breasts theory. I mean come on, ifloss is a doctor, guys!!!!!!!!

Mudpuppy, I hope we are not going to revisit this everytime a conversation about Shapiro medical pops up. It is obvious that you are dissatisfied with the treatment program designed for you at Shapiro medical. However, your only real complaint was donor assessment, not the surgery itself, nor the clinic. AGAIN, we are talking about a difference in philosophy here, not skill level, period. I really don't like it when someone hijacks into a thread, out of spite or malice to restate issues contained in another thread. You have that big of a problem? Keep updating your thread with posts and pictures, that way anyone doing a search on Shapiro will find it and be able to see your opinion. In addition, what knowledge do you have that allows you to comment on Ron going on vacation? What relevence does it have? Nothing you are posting is making sense, nor gaining you any support, Mud. You don't like the approach by Shapiro fine. You like the approach at H&W fine. That's it. There is your argument, in a nutshell. We are not talking about artistry, or clinic, or closure, just simply you wanting more grafts per session. You somehow make it sound as if you went to Bosley or MHR, and then got saved!!!!! You are certainly entitled to your opinion and you have used all 14 of your posts to express it. I also have a question. Is this your LAST surgery? Are you going to need additional surgeries to get the results you need?

MPBC, I consider it highly unlikely that H&W would proceed with a surgery that was in any way deterimental to your condition. I am not a doctor, but after 4 surgeries you might be at the limit, and they feel it is necessary to harvest as many as possible, fix your scar, and correct any previous work. I also feel that your previously transplanted hair is no danger either. I would also hestitate to use the opinions of previous doctors who have left you in this predicament. If you choose to get a second opinion, I would recommend Dr. Shapiro himself. Aside from H&W, he is the only doctor I personally trust to touch my head, and many others feel the same. I really think if you meet with him, he might provide a different perspective, and give you an option of either the best or the best. You will be in good hands in either case, so let us know how it works out. Feel free to PM me if you wish. Hope this helps.

I'd wish you good luck, but I know you don't need it. Anyway, let us know how it goes, and keep us updated! Cheers

BUMP-a-roni---? I will be posting some 4 month pictures on or around the 7th of FEB. Looking Good!

Mrjb, Did you shave the top of your head for your procedure? I know I shaved mine to a #1 day of surgery in order to achieve the best results. I waited for about two weeks or so after my staples came out, and then shaved down to a #1 to even everything out. It does depend on the person though, but now that I have have seen Banks photos he should be just fine. (Well his hair should, I don't know about the rest)

Bank, after two weeks staples will be out and your incision site should be fairly clean. I must say that it took about 2 to 3 weeks for me to go invisible, but that meant I had to leave my sides longer than the top.I think I lasted a few weeks like that, and then I shaved everything off anyway. Clipping to a #2 is probably not the best idea, as you might experience some shockloss in that area as well. I know what you are going through, but trust me, people may look a bit, but they will go about their way, without much of a thought. The real problem begins when you start to sprout, then the questions begin!!!!

Guys, When I choose Shapiro medical to do my HT, I also was offered a chance for Paul to do my surgery. I have to tell you that I honestly thought about having him do my surgery as they offered a substantial discount for his services. However, my hairloss has progressed from a NW 5 to a full six, so I required Ron himself to plan out a series of surgeries, and in essence, reconstruct my hairlne and lateral humps. This is not a knock on Paul, as his methodology is the same as his brothers, period. In addition, I met him while at Shapiro medical, and his hairline work is great as well. What you have to understand is if you met and talked to Ron Shapiro you would realize that he would NEVER allow anyone use his name or his clinic without being sure of them, regardless if it his brother or not. We can see the great work other dr's are performing that studied under Ron, so I think he would be a safe, viable alternative, and a good way to save cash. PS. Boy that would be tough breaking into the HT industry and your brother is Ron Shapiro, wouldn't it?

LM, Way to corny for me, you know? Sounded like a Bible salesman....

Paisant!!!

All, I realize that many patients immediately jump to the defense of their doctor. In this case, we must realize that although great doctors strive to please every potential customer, one specific doctor cannot please every individual at every consultation. There is no problem with that, at all!!!!!!!! Imagine if doctors were rated on how many prospective clients walked out of the office, or decided against surgery at that facility? I have heard nothing but positive comments about True and Dorin, and judging by Dr. True's lengthy response he is committed and does care about his patients. This does not mean a patient cannot have a "bad" consult, or get a bad "vibe". The real test of a surgeon is his or her results, period. My sons pediatrician in a complete a-hole, but he is the best there is, period. I think everyone can take something away from this one and move on. NYC Guy-- I hope you find the best HT Doc for you, and keep us posted as to your experiences.

LT, you need to take a deep breath and seek the counsel of a top strip surgeon, and a top FUE doc as well. Judging by the placement of both scars, the top one seems the most obvious, so perhaps you should focus more on that. I will say that your top scar seems a little indented somewhat, and is the most obvious from the pictures you have shown. Let us know who you talk to, and what they say about your concerns. Good Luck!

D-- We all share your pain, my brother--- Welcome to the real world!!! You are now ready to begin a REALISTIC treatment program that is best for YOU. I am 29 and after 4 months of my 1st HT, I have a hairline for the first time in 5 years!!! I had James Dean and Jonny Bravo hair all rolled into one , so I know exactly how you feel. I spent most of my twenties with a shaved head. Let me tell you I would not change anything about the way I am treating my hairloss. I researched for almost 2 years, losing hair and not responding to Propecia. Only after that, did I seek the best surgeons and procede. Oh and another thing, while I dated some of the hottest girls I have ever seen, I met my fiancee while I was bald, and she is the best looking of them all. At some point you have to realize that we do this simply for ourselves. Any other reason, and it is not the right move. Anyway, I empathize with you, and will be available to answer any questions to the best of my ability. Good Luck, and stay informed!!!!!

I think that most surgeons would prefer that the recipient area be shaved in order to angulate the new hair properly with existing hair. Should patients be unable to do so, most doc's will simply go in-between native hair. It is a matter of preference, but not one that should deter you from your ultimate goals.