the B spot

Pat, I retract that statement, but what I was referring to was the country club attitude of some of these exclusive memberships. In addition, I was merely offering a counterpoint to A.A., who is basing his faith in his dr. on some supposed membership that allows anyone in the door. I thought that everyone would see this in my comments, and make the connection. In reading my comments, I should have worded them another way. I apologize.

Hey Guys.... I like to consider myself an objective person, someone who can view both sides of an argument without bias. With that said, I have some comments here. IAHRS does not guarantee sucess for patients, nor will it ever. Hairtransplant doctors make enormous amounts of money (justifiably if they work the miracles they say they can) so one would have to say any "exclusive" membership can be bought into.(nature of the beast) Second, Hairworthy is simply raising a question as to the philosophy and CURRENT practices of Alvi Armani & co. Nothing in "Alvi Armani's" response to Hairworthy leads me to believe they truly care to inform those of us who are "mis-informed" about their practices. Third, it has LONG been noted that Alvi Armani placed low hairlines on younger patients. FACT. Fourth, I would imagine that quite a few of the "top docs" could push the envelope and dense pack up to 80cm/2 and harvest 5000-6000 grafts should they choose to do so. I guess the question shouldn't be "can they", but "why aren't they". True, some doctors choose not to pursue high graft yield as a more cost effective approach, but those doctors are becoming fewer and fewer. What some of us are questioning is growth percentage of hair so densely packed and the size of the donor tissue necessary to complete such a task. These are issues that are being worked out right now, with Hasson & Wong pushing the evnvelope AND giving anyone who asks complete access into their procedures and methods. As with any new approach, the rest of the industry will wait and see and then catch up. What happens if these patients experience issues down the road? We shall see. Now, as far as your "reservations". Having a belligerent attitude towards a community that only attempts to help others make informed decisions is NOT the way to promote your practice (I assume you work for A.A.)In addition, you mention the top three docs? I assume you meant Shapiro, Rose, Hasson, Wong, Epstein,Charles,Keene,and many others that are either supported by this site, or supported elsewhere. I think your attitude towards this website lends credence to the idea that money, and not patient care, is the sole driving force behind your practice. In addition, I will readily support the fact that Dr. Armani produces technically superior hair transplants, I will not back away from the idea that I have serious concerns about the ethical philosophy practiced at A.A. with regards to age, and hairline work.

Hi Mud, just saw your post and I am glad that you offered some lucid thoughts concerning your experiences with Dr. Shapiro. I can certainly understand not wanting to go through multiple surgeries, facing 1 or 2 more myself My question is twofold: 1st have you expressed these concerns with Dr. Shapiro directly? 2: why did Matt make the final call on your donor hair? I would be interested to know what his response is. I do know that Dr. Shapiro believes strongly in doing what is best for the patient, not necessarily what is latest "fad". I hope that you follow up with this and also post your level of satisfaction with Shapiro Medical's response. In addition, I think choosing Dr. Hasson to finish you off is a great move, as you obviously want to AGRESSIVELY attack your hairloss. From some I have spoken with, this is an area of concern from a results standpoint, but by having Shapiro provide you with a great base to work from, it is only going to enhance your experience with a skilled physician such as Dr. Hasson. If you have the 3500 grafts plus your 2500 previous grafts, you should be sitting pretty my friend!!!!!!! I look forward to following your adventure with aticipation.

Hello Spock-- First let me start by saying that I feel for you and I hope your story reaches a happy conclusion. I feel compelled to say a few things here: 1st while your transplanted hair is not a dense as you would like it to be, consider that your session was not very large, so if you experienced any type of shockloss, or low graft yield, it would result in a thin appearance. 2nd: I would like to express my extreme displeasure in the appearance of your scar. You look completely ravaged, and being as technologically advanced as we are, that is my biggest issue with your story. I would like to know what your Doctor has to say about this, and also what Pat has to say about this as well. I commend you for shaving your head to expose this abuse, thus removing all doubts as to the inadequate closure technique used. Please continue to post your interactions with DeYarman, as I am sure all of us would like to know how he is handling this. If I can be of any assistance please PM me.

Hey guys!!! I wanted to share with you a story that is developing as we speak. One of my friends had a HT about a year ago. His method of research was to pick up the paper and call several places to see how much the surgery would cost, and how soon they could take care of him. He ended up going to the Laser Hair Institute of Chicago and having a Dr. Kahn perform his surgery. The good doctor gave him a deal, 4500.00 for 3000 HAIRS. Now I must tell you that he did this on his own, and never let me know he was thinking about this, otherwise I would have steered him clear. I asked him how many girls were in the room, and how many microscopes, etc... 3 girls, and 1 microscope. He ended up in surgery for only 4 hours, and was in a fair amount of pain. Fast forward to now. I assume that the dr. had to use minigrafts with only 1 microscope in the room, but what he did was fill in my buddy's hairline and temples to what he looked like at 20! One centimeter behind that he has mini grafts placed in a decent fashion, but he looks thin on top. In addition to that, his scar is "hard", and can be felt through his hair. Two things: How unethical is it to place a 20 year old hairline on a 35 year old man who will probably end up a NW5-6 at some point in his life. Second, how do you do this with mini-grafts? I am going into the doctors office with him after the holidays to confront this unethical surgeon, and try to get some of my buddy's money back. I will let everyone now what happens. I hope others will view this and do some resaerch before going ahead with the surgery.

Hey guys!!! I wanted to share with you a story that is developing as we speak. One of my friends had a HT about a year ago. His method of research was to pick up the paper and call several places to see how much the surgery would cost, and how soon they could take care of him. He ended up going to the Laser Hair Institute of Chicago and having a Dr. Kahn perform his surgery. The good doctor gave him a deal, 4500.00 for 3000 HAIRS. Now I must tell you that he did this on his own, and never let me know he was thinking about this, otherwise I would have steered him clear. I asked him how many girls were in the room, and how many microscopes, etc... 3 girls, and 1 microscope. He ended up in surgery for only 4 hours, and was in a fair amount of pain. Fast forward to now. I assume that the dr. had to use minigrafts with only 1 microscope in the room, but what he did was fill in my buddy's hairline and temples to what he looked like at 20! One centimeter behind that he has mini grafts placed in a decent fashion, but he looks thin on top. In addition to that, his scar is "hard", and can be felt through his hair. Two things: How unethical is it to place a 20 year old hairline on a 35 year old man who will probably end up a NW5-6 at some point in his life. Second, how do you do this with mini-grafts? I am going into the doctors office with him after the holidays to confront this unethical surgeon, and try to get some of my buddy's money back. I will let everyone now what happens. I hope others will view this and do some resaerch before going ahead with the surgery.

KJP Regarding your hairline-- I found it interesting to see how "low" hairlines can be softly blended from thin in front to thicker as you progress to the mid-scalp region. Try to imagine a large "T" on your head with the top of the T attaching the hair on the sides of your head directly above your ears. The long slender part of the "T" would point toward your forehead and gradually thin out towards your hairline. I believe that this approach could help mask the fact that your hairline may be "too low". The result of this type of approach is from a direct frontal view, a person would be hard pressed to see to the back of your scalp, actually giving you the illusion of having a muture hairline. Of course, the more donor hair available the more density you can achieve, etc.. The best bet is to have SEVERAL consults with respected Dr.s in order to make an informed decision. Who knows, you may be able to produce enough donor hair to make that "low" hairline a reality =) Best of luck and keep us posted!

Hey Jotronic, Glad to see you here again! Anyway, thanks for posting the information regarding H&W stance on these mega-mega sessions. I think it is of the greatest importance that newbie's find the correct information, and not be misled. I am eager to see the results of these patients with regards to growth, distribution, and scar size over the course of the next year or so. BTW your results are fantastic my friend, and I am glad you have a new lease on life!

Mud--now this is a great topic of conversation. I am of the school of thought (right now) that 2 mega sessions will produce great results. It is of course a matter of preference. If you look across the board, the people with the best results usually have at least 2 surgeries. I am not talking about candidates that still retain 50 to 70% of their hair on top, but those of us NW 5, 6, and 7's who need serious help!!!! I would imagine that most doc's could build a great base with the initial surgery, and after it matures, refine and dense where needed. It is exactly the same type of regimen I have prescribed to. The reasoning here is simply that each patient is unique and simply planting the greatest available grafts in one pass, does not fit everyone. Allowing your hair to mature, and then planting your second batch allows the doc to be more judicious in distribution in order to place hair exactly where it best provides coverage. That is the greatest fear when talking about massive graft sessions: depleted donor site mis-application of harvested grafts I think we are all waiting to see the results of these surgeries, and if these patients still require additional surgery to soften hair lines, repair thin spots, etc...

Qwert, again this is NOT a Dr. bashing thread. This is philosophical and ethical debate. I want to see your scar clearly over the course of the next 5 to 8 months. I would also like to see your growth progress over the course of the next year and any potential growth from areas where shock-loss occurred. Troy-- If indeed Mud feels blown off by Matt at Shapiro Medical, we do need to know this information. What I would like to hear as well is the type of conversations held during the first consult and at the second one. In addition, post a separate thread to express your frustrations, not as a measuring stick of your most recent consultation, or on someone else's thread. Again, if more members chime in concerning Matt or procedures at Shapiro medical, Pat can raise these questions and give us Dr. Shapiro's response, in an unbiased manner. Listen guy's, I am completely on YOUR side, and I post my opinions in order to help educate and offer the voice of reason. If other Shapiro clients are having issues please, begin a thread and allow others to chime in with their opinions. That is the best way to affect change AND educate others. Posting density figures, etc... without pictures or is not the way to go about changing perception. Remember, each of these Dr.'s can be great, without proving one or the other is less skilled.

Mud- I think before you post negatively regarding Dr. Shapiro, you should consider some things first. Saying and doing are two different things. Having my HT with Dr. Shapiro, I know that MY best interests were first and foremost.I did not matter to him that I wanted 3500 first cut, he wanted to do what is best for me. Second, no one can tell you the amount of grafts you will produce, just a best estimate. I know that many surgeons start with a 1.25 to 1.5 strip initially in order to see how well the wound closes. If the scalp is too tight or loose, most doc's adjust accordingly. I was told that should expect 2200 to 2500 yet I yielded 3100+ and did not pay any extra for them. In addition, looking at a scar two or three days old and commenting on how good it looks is not empirically sound. I have challenged any mega-mega session recipient to shave down and post their "great" scars. I have, and I will continue to post them in order to let everyone know what a scar really looks like. You know, we have yet to really see the results of these types of procedures. I can imagine rapidly depleting the donor supply, and not being prepared for future hairloss. With that said, please do not misunderstand my post. If indeed Hasson and Wong have pushed the envelope and are performing ethically sound HT's I will be the first congratulate them and any patient of theirs. What I will not tolerate is any highly regarded DR. being slammed, from someone with 3 posts to their credit, regardless of a HT or not. What you have to understand Mud, is that this forum is not about my doc, your doc,(even though he is the same) it's about the poor bastard agonizing over whether or not to do this, and which doctor to choose. Right now, no one can say that these maxed out procedures will produce the results of two 3000+ sessions. We neeed time and results, and that will tell the tale. In addition, consider the financial aspect if all of this as well. How much does 5000 to 6000 grafts cost at one shot? If you are not happy in any way, call the office and let them know, I think Dr. Shapiro would welcome any criticism directed at his methods in the effort of constantly perfecting his techniques. BTW, I am just as excited to see these results as the next guy.

I think you should call Shapiro Medical Group and speak with Dr. Shapiro. I think you will get the straight scoop from him, and be able to make an informed decision regarding your bald spot. Post some pictures, if you can, I think we would all like to see them.

I have to say that I think Qwert is going to look absolutely amazing once his hair comes in. I also feel compelled to note the length and width of his strip. 2cm+ strip width is just to much in my opinion. I just think sacrificing scar width for a few thousand grafts that you can go back and harvest later is not worth it. I am not saying this out of hand, either. I have a VERY loose scalp and very dense donor hair as well. I could have easily went to 1.75 or 2 if I wanted, but I am worried about scarring. My strip was 28 x 1.25, and if I went up to 2cm I would have yielded roughly 5000 grafts, not far from where you are at Qwert. The reason I am saying this is twofold- New people coming to this site getting the wrong impression and those who say a 35 x 2 cm strip is A-OK. Please note that this is NOT a bash whatsoever on Qwert or his Dr. I think the spirit of this forum demands that we offer some caution and some proven advice in order to balance out some of the initial shock at the size of your session. Qwert, what is the state of your donor hair now? Is it mostly depleted? Are you able to replace hair on your crown and mid-scalp region if you experience additional loss? I keep noticing that large session patients still need to go back in for additional surgery or choose to remain thin looking from the top. Qwert may be the exception due to his type of hairloss, but I was a NW 6, and I want each and every graft to grow. I just want to say that I will be shaving down to show my scar at 2 months, the same as I did at 1 month. I challenge Qwert or any mega-mega session patient to do the same. Check out my thread and look at my scar, which was closed by one of the best closure doc's in the game.

With the amount of really good doc's increasing lately, I think you should be able to negotiate with a doc and get a better deal than that. 3000+ should not cost more than 10k, no matter who you see these days. Also, if you have cash, let then doc's know, they will give you a better deal as well. Hope this helps.

OK Folks, time out!!!! Listen, I think those of us that had HT's can say it wasn't as bad as we thought, and it certainly was no walk in the park. I understand the euphoria you are experienncing Qwert, but you are trying way too hard buddy!!!! A 6500 FU HT is no easy task, and the amount of trauma to your scalp is no joke. I am 2 months from my surgery of 3100+ so I can relate to you right now. I would very much like for you to answer a couple of things, that will go a long way on the forum here 1st- out of the 6500 how many 1's 2's 3's, etc... and I must know how big your scar is length and width. I have to believe that your strip is at least 28 cm long and 2.2 cm wide. I have very dense donor hair and my strip was 28 cm long and 1.25 wide and I generated 3100 grafts. We all know that Hasson & Wong do great work. I am just concerned about philosophy, and I think that is what everyone else feels as well. I must tell you that I cannot understand how you do not know the exact dimensions of your strip. Anyway, I look forward to your pictures and congrats on the new hair buddy!

Thanks a bunch Chums!!!!!! I am comin up on 2 months here soon, and just I will have just one more until some sprouting I hope!!!!! I will post pictures as always.....

This is just my opinion, but it sounds as if either your doctor was unclear in his explaination, or, you did not really listen/understand what he was planning. It is also possible that you experienced some loss of hair from the surgery itself. I side with Gorpy on this that 2200 covering that much scalp will appear thin. I think I would contact your doc and get a clear explaination about your graft distribution, then repost that information, INCLUDING your doctor's name. You look pretty good though, and I would say that another HT would really set you up. Let us know buddy!!!!!!

Well Casanova, It is all part of master plan to prove that I am scientifically approaching my baldness. Getting a hairtransplant was not an emotional response to how I look or feel, but simply the choice to have hair based on research. Dr. Shapiro is the finest surgeon I have seen, and I will be a testament to this once my hair comes in which factored into my decision. Please understand, I wear this scar as a badge, almost to prove my reasons for getting a HT are not shallow or illconceived. Either way, I am proud to show people who do not understand exactly how HT's are done, what is entailed.

Sure Pat, I will try to do this right away.

Thanks PB~~~~~ Anywho, I posted three new photos showing my scar line. I hope this shows how awesome Dr. Shapiro is with regards to wound closure. I cannot express how happy I am that I finally decided to do this guys. While I am not someone who stressed out about this, I approached the HT with a great deal of research and trepidation. Barring any extenuating circumstances, I will be scheduling another HT in August or September of next year!!!! I will post additional photos each month to show my progress.

I agree the hairline looks great, and I am NOT in anyway casting dispersion here, but you desrcibed the transition and that is what I am talking about. That is what struck me about his density, not the placement/artistry, etc... It struck me that I could see a little further back than I thought I should be able to, that is all. Dr. Alexander produces great results, and this is not a bash the doctor post, I am merely commenting on the FIRST look at a new patient.

Looking good Dude!!!! Hey anyone ever tell you that you look like Lars from Metallica? Swear to God you look like him, hair and all!!!!

Thanks JacobS! I will be posting some one month photos soon as I have shaved down to a #1. When I post, I want everyone to see how my scar looks now, and will look in the future. It is the belief of my personal doctor that my scar will be undetectable in 8 to 12 months, even almost shaved. Anywho---- I cannot wait until the sprouting begins!!!!!!

Does his hairline look a little sparse? This guy had some hair left before the surgery and it seems to me that his hairline should be a tad more dense. Please tell me if I am off-base here. I think the guy looks 100% better, I just think 4000 fu's in the front third should look a little thicker. Could just be his hair type though. Any thoughts? Maybe I'm just being paranoid :-)

WOW!!!!!! Talk about opportunity!!!! Errol how did you happen to find this site? Also, perhaps as the official representative of Transmed, you could post some photos of the work being performed. If indeed your clinic is doing quality work, informing this site would be a good idea as it reaches just about everyone. I have never heard of Transmed, so perhaps you could contact Pat or Robert to review your clinic?