Spock

Since I'm mentioned in this thread I thought I'd give my 2 cents worth. Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread. It's true I am generally dissatisfied with my DeYarman work (Nov 2004) in both recipient and donor. The donor linear scar was mediocre, but there were 3 circular scars from the sutures that turned out quite poor. Up through 16 months post op I have pics of the recipient work that clearly shows this work separeate from all other work. The hair turned out kinky (I have straight hair), weird angled, and very thin. It simply looked like crap. My next round of work at an Atlanta FUE doctor was a very different experience. It was obvious to me this operation had a more professional and experienced surgical and technician staff. The microscopes were all top notch, unlike DeYarmans. This doctors growth result is difficult to judge since what is seen is the result of two doctors. It appears to have started out kinky like DeYarmans work, but slowly improved over many months. As of Feb 2007 (27 months for DeYarman, 14 months for "FUE") the sum of both work was medicore in cosmetic appearance, but very slowly improving. To complicate the analysis I had bad scalp irritation issues after both of these procedures. With DeYarmans work I used minox for about 6 months post op. During this time my scalp was highly inflammed from the propylene glycol in generic minox. I discussed and showed (I'm local to him) my redness and scalp irritation issues with DeYarman several times and he kept saying it would go away. He was wrong. He did not realize my problem was due to minox intolerance instead of normal post op skin redness. After my FUE work I had a bad reaction to Emu Oil. I only used the Emu oil for 2 weeks but because of the skin damage from the minox this redness lasted for over 10 months! This skin sensitivity issue has led me to question my physiology, as Pat mentioned. In the end I have more questions than answers. Did the minox induced skin damage retard my DeYarman grafts? Did this also contribute to my subsequent Emu Oil intolerance and FUE doc's mediocure results? Did the poor microscopes at DeYarman's and/or technician error cause their poor results? Something else? Some combination? Just don't know for sure. I've now just completed my 4th and final procedure. Dr. Hasson did a scar revision (excellent closure!) and I got 1484 more grafts. Donor laxity limited me to this number; I've now completly depleted my donor. Total grafts in 4 procedures: ~ 5000. Not sure if this next statement is ok to post. Pat, you can remove it if necessary: My detailed photo album on HLH (under the name of Mr Spock) shows all my work in all it's glorry.

Thanks B Yes the donor area was truly screwed up. And it can not be blamed on some combination of HT #1 from 11 years ago interacting with HT #2 from DeYarman. I do give DeYarman credit for excising the first scar into the his. But the first scar was predominently on the right side and these problems are center and left side. I have not been in contact with DeYarman since my 8 month checkup and have no desire to talk with him now. I was very unhappy with my results then and decided to get more work elsewhere. My HT #3, done last week, was originally planned to just be a 2nd pass in the frontal 3rd. However after seeing the shave down, the plan had to change. I give HUGE credit to my FUE doctor in Atlanta for taking pity on me and giving me free grafts for my scar. He put about 500 into the linear scar and holes. Wish me luck.

Looking good Cas. You must be one happy guy. Your right about the lighting effecting the visual appearance of thinness. Try it with and without a flash. The difference between the two can be dramatic. Question on your donor area. Have you been able to get any pics of it? How much donor do you think you have left? Now that your on the HT bandwagon you'll only want more. It's kind of like crack

Hello my follicularly challenged friends. I've just finished 3 days of FUE/FIT in Atlanta (HT #3). But that is not the purpose of this posting. My purpose is to post the final update on my results of 1620 grafts in 47 cm2 total area by Dr. DeYarman in San Diego on November 18, 2004 (HT #2). In the 2 pics below you will see the results of this work. Note that the doctor who performed HT #3 will not be mentioned here, in keeping with this web site's policies. A donor density check by this doctor determined that I have Follicular Units (FUs) that are mostly 3s (40%) and 4s (30%) with some 2s (20%) and a few 1s (maybe 10%). However the spacing between FUs is greater than average, yielding somewhere between 100 and 140 hairs/cm2. Pic 1 is the top frontal/side shot. The grafts are placed in the frontal third. The hair is kinky and does not really match the surrounding hair, but this seems to be slowly improving each month. At the current rate I expect it to take maybe another 8 or 10 months before they straighten out. However the results are visually thin. It appears that either many of the grafts did not grow (partially transected?), OR they all got cut up into singles and placed as singles. A close visual inspection with stereo magnifying glasses makes it appear that most are placed as singles. Since this is not my natural groupings I'm guessing they got cut up into singles. If true this a suboptimum use of grafts and would help explain the thin appearance. Singles should be saved for the front of the hairline and natural FU groupings used elsewhere for maximum visual density. Not really visable in pic 1 is the lack of growth in the left temple. It just does not show up in pics, you must see it in person. For reasons that neither me nor Dr. DeYarman can explain, almost none of the transplants in the left temple grew. This is about 3 cm2 of scalp area (from the temple apex forward). It creates a weird asymmetry that really bugs me. I know some asymmetry is good, but this is a bit beyond that. Pic 2 is the shaved donor. After HT #2 I had a lot of pain, swelling and numbness. Even now at 13 months I still only have about half of my feeling above the center of my suture line. I think this pic helps explains why. Before I was shaved down for HT #3, I thought I had 2 round shockloss areas of about 0.5cm diameter above the center left of the suture line. After this shave down I learned that I actually have 3 SCARS (not shockloss) of diameters 0.4cm, 0.9cm, and 0.8cm. These are hard skin scars, not vascular, soft shockloss skin. It's my estimate that they were caused by suture holes, but I can't be sure. Note that in this pic the anesthesia was started, causing the small blood drips and swelling in the right outlined box. In closing I have to express my strong disappointment with the results of my HT #2 with Dr. DeYarman. Both recipient and donor areas were not of the quality I expected. In fairness to Dr. DeYarman I will say that I met one person who is very happy with his results, having 2 sessions with him in similar areas to what I did. My last meeting with Dr. DeYarman was around the 8 month mark. At that time I expressed my general dissatisfaction with the results so far. I've not talked with him since. If you wish to see more details and my 10 month results posting, go here: http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f...6060861/m/1141044271 If you wish to see Dr. DeYarmans posting of his interpretation of my 8 month results, go here: http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f...6060861/m/7961004771 I look forward to your comments.

Hello my follicularly challenged friends. I've just finished 3 days of FUE/FIT in Atlanta (HT #3). But that is not the purpose of this posting. My purpose is to post the final update on my results of 1620 grafts in 47 cm2 total area by Dr. DeYarman in San Diego on November 18, 2004 (HT #2). In the 2 pics below you will see the results of this work. Note that the doctor who performed HT #3 will not be mentioned here, in keeping with this web site's policies. A donor density check by this doctor determined that I have Follicular Units (FUs) that are mostly 3s (40%) and 4s (30%) with some 2s (20%) and a few 1s (maybe 10%). However the spacing between FUs is greater than average, yielding somewhere between 100 and 140 hairs/cm2. Pic 1 is the top frontal/side shot. The grafts are placed in the frontal third. The hair is kinky and does not really match the surrounding hair, but this seems to be slowly improving each month. At the current rate I expect it to take maybe another 8 or 10 months before they straighten out. However the results are visually thin. It appears that either many of the grafts did not grow (partially transected?), OR they all got cut up into singles and placed as singles. A close visual inspection with stereo magnifying glasses makes it appear that most are placed as singles. Since this is not my natural groupings I'm guessing they got cut up into singles. If true this a suboptimum use of grafts and would help explain the thin appearance. Singles should be saved for the front of the hairline and natural FU groupings used elsewhere for maximum visual density. Not really visable in pic 1 is the lack of growth in the left temple. It just does not show up in pics, you must see it in person. For reasons that neither me nor Dr. DeYarman can explain, almost none of the transplants in the left temple grew. This is about 3 cm2 of scalp area (from the temple apex forward). It creates a weird asymmetry that really bugs me. I know some asymmetry is good, but this is a bit beyond that. Pic 2 is the shaved donor. After HT #2 I had a lot of pain, swelling and numbness. Even now at 13 months I still only have about half of my feeling above the center of my suture line. I think this pic helps explains why. Before I was shaved down for HT #3, I thought I had 2 round shockloss areas of about 0.5cm diameter above the center left of the suture line. After this shave down I learned that I actually have 3 SCARS (not shockloss) of diameters 0.4cm, 0.9cm, and 0.8cm. These are hard skin scars, not vascular, soft shockloss skin. It's my estimate that they were caused by suture holes, but I can't be sure. Note that in this pic the anesthesia was started, causing the small blood drips and swelling in the right outlined box. In closing I have to express my strong disappointment with the results of my HT #2 with Dr. DeYarman. Both recipient and donor areas were not of the quality I expected. In fairness to Dr. DeYarman I will say that I met one person who is very happy with his results, having 2 sessions with him in similar areas to what I did. My last meeting with Dr. DeYarman was around the 8 month mark. At that time I expressed my general dissatisfaction with the results so far. I've not talked with him since. If you wish to see more details and my 10 month results posting, go here: http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f...6060861/m/1141044271 If you wish to see Dr. DeYarmans posting of his interpretation of my 8 month results, go here: http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f...6060861/m/7961004771 I look forward to your comments.

Yes, it varies with each person and each surgeon. In both of my HTs I had signficant numbness for ~ 9 months and it did not really return to normal until just recently (11+ months). I'm guessing this problem was mostly due to my scalp characeristics since the surgeons were different people. I have a very tight scalp and skin in general.

What your experiencing is normal. Your doctor should have explained this to you. I had the exact same problem. I tried witch hazel, aloe vera, and Mederma. None of it really helped. I did find minox to be a big contributor to redness. Eventually had to stop using it and then shead badly. But that is not your problem since your not using minox. Just have to wait it out. Keep it covered from the sun! I'm 11+ months post op and my transplanted area of the scalp will turn red again if exposed to the sun.

Yes, Dr. DeYarman did offer a complimentary strip revision. I appreciate the offer. However I don't think I'll take him up on it. I've continued to do more research in the last 11 months and have made other choices. Plus I need more hair (not just a scar revision) and do NOT want to do another strip. Per Robert's request I will not state my next surgeons name on this forum. I will contact him and give permission to post any pics he has of me, but no full monty. I have nothing to hide about the results and I know neither does he. Let the facts fall where they may. The last set of pics he took were at the 8 month mark. I'm now at 11+ months and feel it's thinner than at 8 months where it appeared to have visually peaked in density. Hopefully the transplants just cycle through this and I'll get the full density. I have taken pictures every month with a 5 megapixel camera at exactly the same angle and lighting, which has been great for comparison. I don't expect his pics to change my opinion. And, like I said before, the left temple problem just does not show up in pics. It must be seen in person.

I don't really know if the use of minox affected the growth of the transplants. Without a control group it's not possible to know. Many people report using minox for a few months post op, so if it did have a strong negative effect on the transplants than I must be unusual. I"ve not heard of others reporting this type of problem. I'm now speculating, but I'm guessing that the transplants are slowly thinning out. I see less hair now than 2 months ago. I hope it's a temporary situation and that they just cycle through it.

I'm pasting this response back, minus the reference to my next doctor in Atlanta... "Yeah, the results are not great. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. One other thing I forgot to mention was my withdrawal from minox. I was on it for 6 months post op, but had to stop. I was not tolerating well at all. Lots of redness and itching. I tried a couple times to stop for a week to let it calm down. But every time I restarted, it immediately turned bright red again. 6 weeks after stopping minox I took a set of pics and was horrified how much natural hair just behind the transplant line I had lost. I believe I lost more hair by the shock of stopping minox than if I had never used it. Let that be a warning to diffuse thinners who cavalierly think using minox post op to help the grafts is a good idea. Having said that, I still think the yield rate on this HT was low. Maybe ~ 50% in general and zero in the left temple. FYI, post op I used a healthy dose of vitamins, MSM, even graftcyte spray I'm not looking for any refunds. I don't consider it a botch job. Besides, there are no guarantees in life." KG In reference to your question on 2 months use. I feel if your on it long enough to get any benifit you will be on it long enough to suffer it's withdrawl. Don't get the minox monkey on your back!

I'm now 11 months post op in my hairline restoration and feel I've got a good feel for how this thing is going to turn out. Pat asked me to let it mature before posting more on my results. I think I'm now ready History: I'm 42 years old and had 1620 grafts placed in the frontal 1/3rd (47 cm2) on November 18 2004 by Dr. DeYarman in San Diego. I was a NW3a before and am now kind of a thin NW2. Also had a small HT of 309 micrografts in 1994 by John Lenhart in FL and by all accounts it was done pretty good. My skin is average caucasian brown and hair is thin, straight, and dark brown. I have tight skin. Not just on my head but over my whole body. I was concerned about donor laxity, but DeYarman checked me over well and felt it was not a problem. So what are my results? Mixed; on a good day I give it a C-. I've had fair general growth of the recipient hair. That is the good news. The bad news has been the donor area, certain aspects of the hairline, and a somewhat thin and weak appearance of the general recipient area. Immediately after surgery I had a lot of pain, swelling, and numbness of the center left of the back of head around and above the suture line. It was a specific area only. As the weeks progressed I had a friend take pictures of the donor area. I had a scar that ranges between 2 and 2.5mm in width along it's length with significant shock loss around the suture line. Most of this shock loss was temporary. But the real problem is the two mysterious 0.7 cm diameter shock loss areas in the numb center left region above the suture line. At 10 months none of this hair has come back. Dr. Deyarman has been concerned about this from the start, but has no definitive explanation for it. I believe they are suture hole areas that caused pain, swelling, and permanent shock loss. Ultimately they will require some grafts to fill in. I keep my hair at least 3/4" long so it can only be seen if my hair is wet. Sorry, no good pics. The other item that I feel is of mixed result is my recipient hair. It was planted at about 30 grafts/cm2 in the front line and 30 to 40 elsewhere. At this point the transplants do not match or blend in well with the surrounding hair of the sides and mid scalp. The entire recipient hair has a weird texture and curliness to it. It starts out straight but as it gets near the ends it abruptly curls toward the back. It just plain looks funny. Because of this I must keep my hair less than 1 inch to minimize the effect. It's noticeable when viewed from the top. I totally avoid situations where I might bend my head down or people might view me from up high. Pics enclosed. Lastly, the grafts on the left side in and near the left temple did not grow. As you come forward along the hairline, about 2 cm out of the apex, that's when the transplants start growing. It creates a asymmetry that really bothers me. Why did it happen? Did the techs damage this group of grafts? Did I sleep on them hard under the influence of heavy pain killers? Another mystery neither of us can explain. Pics enclosed. Over the last 10 months I've been back to Dr. DeYarman several times to discuss my results. He has tried to offer some explanations, but for the most part can't explain any of it. I believe he is an honest, ethical, and caring doctor. However, I believe he gets mixed results with his patients. I know another person who went to him and got similar number of grafts in the same areas. He is very happy with his results. Moving forward I'm scheduled to do refinement work an FUE doctor in Atlanta in December. I'm targeting 1800 FUE. I won't do strip again! Way too painful for me and I believe my donor laxity won't allow it. Will concentrate on the left temple area, hairline in general, and improve density in the front 1/2 (extending about 2cm farther back than last time). May put a few into my two donor shock loss areas too.

Starting to fill out nicely. Much more to come. Happy growing to you!

I never received an email from you Robert. Nor did I receive a reply to my PM to you asking why my photo album was not posted. If you remember, you erased my 5 month results posting off this site and then I pulled my photo album in protest. Not sure what your referring to when you say ethical issues and concerns. We can discuss it here or in PM. I'd rather not hijack Cas's thread.

Hey Goingbaldn20s Who did you end up consulting with? I hope you checked out dr. Keene. She has an excellent reputation. I had a HT with Dr. Deyarman about 11 months ago. Results were medicore. There is a reason why there is a short list of HIGHLY recomended doctors. Do your research at multiple locations on the internet! Good luck.

Hi Cas Your 4.5 months out now. How is your growth? I'm curious to know how it's turning out for you. I recently tried to post my photo album on my results with Dr. DeYarman. My results were mediocre and Pat won't approve it. If you want to compare notes send me a PM. Good luck and happy growing. You should be in the exploding phase now!