corvettester

Got it! My bad. Thanks for clearing that up. Corvettester

Flint, Any idiot could tell the difference between a 2,000 graft result and a 5,000 graft result... it'd be very easy. You could also tell just by looking at the post-op pics. Besides, if a doc planted 5k grafts and only 2k grew, he should still compensate you in some manner or other. I mean, if he says you're a good candidate for 5k and only 2k grow, I think the doc is liable on that one... Corvettester

Adam, I don't find your result to be satisfactory. It's not dense enough and I notice a definite difference between your transplanted hair and your native hair. Of course, this could just be due to maturity reasons so it's best to hold off judgement for another couple of months. There is no way that I would be satisfied with that amount of density though. It's see-through and no amount of maturity is going to change that, in my opinion. I imagine that you'll have to go back for another 1,500 to get any decent amount of density, unless of course, you want to use concealers... Having said that, it doesn't look bad or like it is necessarily shoddy work. It just seems like something is off... like you're thinning or something. Lastly, your case highlights perfectly my growing dissatisfaction with doctors only putting 1,500 grafts in the hairlines, temples and temple points of NW3s. It simply isn't enough! I really can't remember seeing a NW3 who had decent coverage with 1,500 grafts... Hairlines need actual density. The illusion of density can be the goal for the midsection and crown. I think that the 1,000 grafts minimum per NW level rule is a good metric for a conservative approach. I think 1,500 grafts per NW level is a good aggressive approach. The next time I see a NW3 about to undergo a 1,500 graft procedure, I'm going to warn him against it. Corvettester

Flint, That's the thing, I don't think that 1,800 graft procedure will prevent your head from reflecting light at all. It's going to be completely see-through, so don't get your hopes up. Provided you have good laxity and sufficient donor supply, I would go for about 4,000 grafts in the next session. However, something tells me that that isn't going to be an option for you. Therefore, I would consult with a doctor who specializes in mega-sessions. The most dramatic transformations that I have seen for people in your situation have come form either Hasson & Wong or Rahal. You would have to consult with them in person though so that they can test your laxity and give you a realistic estimate of your true donor supply. I can't believe that you went with the first doctor that you met and didn't bother to research at all. Do you live in Saudi Arabia? The price you paid is about half of what Coalition doctors charge. You should plan on paying around $4-5 per graft for FUT and $8-10 per graft FUE with a leading doctor. As far as you nape and body hair goes, there are not a lot of doctors that specialize in that sort of thing. I know that Umar does it. My doctor, Dr. Dorin does it too. It's probably going to be one of your only options. However, I would exhaust my donor supply completely before going to body hair transplantation. BHT just doesn't look the same and I have never really seen a result that I thought looked great. It's kind of a procedure of last resorts, if you know what I mean. You're going to need lots of grafts for your second procedure. I'd say at least 4,000, but 5,000 would be better. I just hope you have the donor supply to fund it. Sorry to sound so dim... Corvettester

What exactly did you mean when you said you got another 2,300 grafts plus 600 touch up? Does that mean that you got 2,900 grafts total for your second procedure? Corvettester

Flint, Who was your doctor? Considering your level of baldness, I really don't know what you hope to gain from 1,800 grafts. I really can't see that amount of grafts giving you even minimal coverage. In my opinion, you're going to need at least 7,000 grafts to begin to achieve the illusion of density. I hope you have realistic expectations as to what kind of result you're going to get. 1,800 grafts for your level of baldness is an unusually small procedure. How many doctors did you consult with? I ask because if your doctor said that you'll only be able to get 1,800 grafts safely via FUT, then I have to wonder whether or not you're a good candidate for an HT at all. If you can only get 1,800 per procedure, then that makes me question whether you even have enough donor supply and laxity to give yourself any semblance of coverage... Yes, you will definitely need a second, if not third and fourth, procedure. You should probably focus on the same area you had covered with the first, except you're going to need a lot more graft next time... Just to give you some perspective, I had 1,700 grafts put into my hairline and temples with my first procedure, then another 1,300 put in the same area for my second procedure. Basically, I had twice as many grafts transplanted onto about a quarter of the surface are as you had covered. Corvettester

Awesome result. Dude kind of reminds me of Thom York. What I also like about it is that it's an appropriate hairline for any age, as in not too low. Montreal mentioned that if you look closely, his transplanted hair looks kind of "curly and dry." I noticed that too, however, it's probably because he's only 7 months out. His hair is only just starting to mature. I bet in another 7 months, it won't be that way. Either way, there has been a definite improvement. Corvettester

Blake, You'd dig it the most! The more I think about it, I see the new technique as an extension of FUE, but with a the yield of FUT, and none of the scaring from either procedure. This is one of the main reasons it's so appealing. So many people are put off by the linear scar form FUT. This new technique will make that a thing of the past. I even got to see some photos of the extracted grafts... they looked just like FUT grafts, if not healthier! When you compare FUT grafts next to FUE grafts, you can see why FUT has such better yield. There are also implications for potentially denser packing sessions... but that is still an unknown at this point. The only downside I see from it is that it's going to be prohibitively expensive for most people. It will easily match the price of FUE, possibly a little more initially, but I'm sure over time it will lower. Remember my review of Dr. Wesley a few months ago? I told you that this guy was going to be big! LOL! Corvettester

Judging from your before photos, that looks to be about 1,500 grafts. It appears to me that you got a good yield. I think most people would be happy with it. However, if it's not dense enough for you then you'll just have to go back for another pass. You probably can't lower it anymore. I'd address the corners. Maybe the doc went so low because you have a poor donor supply, or maybe that is all he could safely get... I do, however, agree with Aaron that I don't like the hairline design. I think it should be rounded out more but then again that could just be due to the fact that you have it slicked back. Corvettester

Good for you dude. I'm sure it will turn out well. Corvettester

I just got back from a consultation with Dr. Wesley where he presented his new technique to me. I must say that I am very impressed, it looks very promising. It's so simple, yet genius. It was one of those moments where it just hits you and you say "Aha!" His new technique puts FUT/FUE to shame. I'm actually surprised that no one has thought of it before now... maybe they have, but he's actually putting it to practice. Honestly, I think his new technique has the potential to completely replace FUT/FUE in less than 5 years. For serious! Based on what I know about FUT/FUE, this is the natural and logical next step. It builds off all of the principles and groundwork laid by FUT/FUE, and improves upon them. It's nothing complicated at all, which is why it looks so encouraging. There is nothing unusual or particularly difficult about it, when you compare it to FUT/FUE or any other procedures in the medical field. Of all the new ideas and technology in the HT market, this easily is the best, most realistic and practical that I have seen. What's more, it appears very close to becoming a reality within the next year or two. To me, there is hardly anything theoretical about Dr. Wesley's new technique, it's nothing like cloning, PRP or ACell... it's just a better way of doing things. I think he just has to finish the clinical trials and then put it on the market. I won't say anything about the actual technique as I believe that that is Dr. Wesely's prerogative. He mentioned that he was going to be more forthcoming in the next couple months, once he gets the trials finished. I will say this though, it's a new technique that is a significantly better way of extracting grafts. Here is what it improves on... 1. Graft Yield. The grafts suffer very little trauma... same level of FUT if not less. 2. Lowers Transection Dramatically from FUE/FUT. 3. No linear Scar like FUT. No punctate scar like FUE. 4. Minimally Invasie, even less than FUE... and of course, much less invasive than FUT! 5. The grafts are out of the head for only a short amount of time... we're talking minutes. 6. No shaving of donor or recipient area. It does NOT replicate or multiply FUs. So you are still limited by your donor supply. Therefore, I think NW7s and Diffuse Thinners are still out of luck. Also, it will still deplete the donor area so it does nothing to address the problem of donor supply. You either got it or you don't. I'm definitely not one to hypothesize what will be the next big break through in medicine, technology or culture, however, I have a lot of faith in this technique redefining hair restoration. To me, it basically fulfills everything FUE promised to be, yet didn't deliver... time will tell if I'm right. Of course, I could be wrong. It's just that what is so different about this is that it is a technique, not some new laser, plasma or medication that we hear about every couple months. It's just a better way of doing things is the only way I can describe it. So of course, we're going to have to wait until the trails are over to know for sure... but it's looking good so far. Like I said, I won't mention the actual technique so don't ask. Dr. Wesley will be publishing his findings soon enough. He has every right to protect his intellectual property. I told him that he shouldn't publish it all... at least not until it's ready for mass adoption. However, when he does publish the outcome, you'll be surprised at how simple it really is, yet it makes so much sense. I don't blame him for holding off on his technique because the man is sitting on a goldmine. You heard it here first...:cool: Corvettester

Josh, Well said... You make a lot of good points and I think your personal philosophy and values will greatly benefit you in your search for the perfect physician, and in life in general. One thing that caught my eye about your post was your thoughts on the big egos involved in the HT industry and the online community. To a certain extent, I must agree. You'll find reports of such things with just about any of the top clinics and it's good of you and other members to bring that to the attention of the community. However, since you're new to the HTN and the HT industry as a whole, I want you to consider another interpretation. Hair loss is a devastating event to endure: it destroys people's confidence, self-esteem and self-image. When a NW6 gets an amazing HT that restores him to a NW2, it's a life-changing experience, he becomes a "believer" if you will. So not to come of as an apologist for your bad experience at SMG, or if you feel like some of the posters are a little too gung-ho in their praise of SMG, but don't necessarily assume that it's always egos at play, when in fact it could just be passion. When you're really passionate about and really believe in something, it's easy to come of as biased, egotistical or salesy. I'm not trying to devalue or belittle your experience at SMG. I'm simply trying to prepare you for what you will come across often on the HTN and in the HT industry as a whole in your consults. It's also easy to confuse confidence with cockiness. I've certainly had a few consultations were I felt like the reps were being cocky, but also one where I could see that the doc was just really confident. As any naturally confident person will tell you, some people feel threatened by such confidence and interpret it as arrogance or pretentiousness. Our society values humility, as it is typically interpreted as honesty. And you're right, Rahal is a very humble guy. I had an excellent consult with him: no pretensions, no nonsense. But just as different docs and reps have different philosophies, so do different docs and reps have different personalities and personal experiences that have shaped them. I remember that I had a consultation with Dr. Jeffery Epstein. A few people had warned me in advanced that he was "cocky" and arrogant. However, that wasn't my experience at all. He was very confident, yet thoughtful and listened to me. He believes in his work and ability, yet he didn't try to tell me what was best for me. But I understand how some people could be intimidated by him... You seem like a very open-minded and perspicacious person, so remember that you're dealing with a very emotional subject. I don't know about Matt Zup, but a lot of these reps are also patients of their respective doctors. They have undergone life-changing experiences and transformations that you have yet to know. Guys like you and I with minimal hair loss will never know the anguish of a NW6 who loses his twenties to MPB. I mean, can't imagine how I would have dealt with severe hair loss in my twenties. So when I see posters and reps getting passionate and opinionated, I understand... Thanks for sharing your experience so far. I hope this adds a little perspective... Corvettester

LOL! Same here man! There have been a few times that I really wanted to say something to the guy... out of compassion! There is help out there buddy! I'm with you. LOL! Corvettester

Hey dude, It sounds to me like you're being pretty realistic. You already know the risks and seem to understand the basic concepts, components and expectations of HT. Here are my thoughts on your situation... First off, what is your family history like? Are there many bald men in your family? If so, how severe? It makes sense that you want to look your age and not lose your twenties to baldness. Nobody is going to blame you for that. So in order to get the ball back in your court, I think you should start Propecia and Rogain together and consistently for a year. From what I gather, people seem to get better results when the two are used in conjunction with each other... Since you're only 23, and you've progressed easily to a NW3, if not NW4, I would definitely start on the meds first. You really have to focus on saving what hair you have left because to have that much loss at your age is not a very encouraging fact of life. The thing you really have to prove to yourself is that medication works for you and you're willing and able to stay on it indefinitely... possibly 20 years or more assuming nothing else comes along. Let's face it, if the meds don't work for you, then I would say hold off on an HT until your late twenties / early thirties so as to be able to better predict your future loss. However, if you see improvement with the meds, I don't see why you can't get your frontal third taken care of in a year or so, at the age of 24 or 25. It's usually best to wait until 25 though. Just make sure the meds are working for you and that you're stable and persistent enough to take them every day like you must... there is no on-again/off-again with Propecia. As far as shooting for 3,000-3,500 grafts in one session, I do think that is being aggressive, but also necessary for your amount of hair loss. The good news is that you appear to have favorable hair characteristics so that those grafts will go a long way in terms of coverage. My only word of caution would be to make sure you have the donor supply to afford it. You're going to need at least 8,000 grafts in the bank to safely put 3,500 into your frontal third, though some might argue more... The important thing is that you have enough left over to address your midsection and crown, should they go... I disagree with the notion that you should not let travel influence your decision. That may be true if you live in Nowheresville, Kansas, but you live 5 minutes from a reputable doctor. As I've mentioned several times before, I cannot emphasize how beneficial it's been to be just a brief subway ride away from my clinic, I can make there in 20 minutes. I go in for check ups every two months. Any questions or concerns I have can be answered immediately. It does a lot to ease my anxiety. Lastly, I suggest you check out Ahairdown's profile. He had his procedure with Arocha recently. He's pretty active on the forums and is a straight shooter. Corvettester

Only since I got my HT. Before then, I never really noticed. I think this forum has really improved my sense of perception as to a man's best/worst features. I find myself staring at NW0s and NW1s most often... and women's hairlines quite frequently too. Funny thing, now that I've become so conscientious of how much effort it takes to look really outstanding, in all facets of appearance, I must say that I've become demystified to super attractive women. What a relief! I live in a neighborhood in NYC (by choice) with a very high concentration of models. They simply don't impress me anymore because I'm on to their little tricks... i.e. hair extensions, highlights, hair straightening, push-up/padded bras, clever make up, etc... I'm now able to instantly deconstruct them to their essential selves! :eek: Corvettester

Again, so few grafts for so much coverage... well done. Corvettester

Yes, uneven recession in the temples is quite common actually. Same thing happened to me. My left temple had far more recession than my right temple. You're only 22 now, so I imagine it will recede a little more on both sides. The mature hairline really becomes whole in the mid to late twenties. I would definitely look into meds after consulting with a few, as in more than two, physicians... Corvettester

See username: southbeacharchie Corvettester

Now that's what I'm talking about! Nice mockup Joetronic. I would have made them even more dramatic. I also think it would look better if you closed off the corners a little more... just filled them in so that they don't have such a severe V shape, but more like the number 7 shape instead. Otherwise, as the temple points protrude outward, it may make the recession of the widow's peak appear deeper than it really is... Basically, you have to balance the corners with the temple points. Corvettester

Matt, I was looking for an alternative to Fin, but it appears that there isn't a viable one. I'm still debating upon whether or not to start Fin. I'll be making my decision to start Propecia this coming December after which I will have 8 months worth of crown and midsection photos to compare against each other. I'll be sure to present my case to the community for everyone's opinion. As far as Biotin goes, since starting it, I've seen a lot of growth in my face and body hair, but not anywhere that didn't have hair before. The hair has simply regrown at a much faster pace and it appears to be more healthy or stronger, if that makes sense. I know this because I shave all of my body hair. In fact, the other day, a lady friend of mine commented on how hairy my legs were! Also, I feel like my head hair is looking really good these days. It seems much fuller and healthier as well. However, I have not experienced any new growth in areas devoid of hair. So I'm sticking with the Biotin as well as the Hair, Skin & Fingernail Multivitamin. Corvettester

Anyone else know anything about Saw Palmetto? Personal experiences? I still haven't been able to find anything worthwhile to suggest that it actually prevents hair loss or increases growth in any way... Corvettester

I was considering starting Saw Palmetto because of all the good things that I have heard about it from members here. I thought it would be smart to combine with the Biotin which I've been taking and have already seen noticeable results with. However, after an hour of online research I couldn't find anything substantiating the claims that SP acts like Propecia in that it inhibits DHT and helps to prevent hair loss. Everything I found said that there was no clinical evidence of such claims and that they were largely based on theory and conjecture. Not to mention that there are several reports of actual side-effects such as ED, Constipation, Nausea, Halitosis, etc... So my questions is, does anyone have any studies, literature, personal experience or evidence of any kind that they can show me? Any good experiences or results? Otherwise, I think I'm just going to pass on this one. I don't see the point in taking another pill that has virtually no proven benefits. For example, I started Biotin about three weeks ago and already I have seen an enormous amount of growth on my face and body hair. So I think it stands to reason that it is helping my head hair as well, though I can't be certain yet. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Corvettester

Exactly! I want to see more of these types of cases presented. This one of the most talked about, yet least documented subjects on the HTN. I'm going to have to bookmark this case. Thank you Dr. Beehener. Outstanding result... almost makes the linear scar a complete non-issue. Corvettester

Bobo, I was in a similar situation to you when I was making my final decision... One of the major reasons that I chose to go with T&D for my procedure was because of the outstanding consultation. I consulted with several doctors, but none went as well as T&D. At one clinic, for example, I wasn't allowed to meet the doctor! I only was allowed to talk with the reps... wtf? Another one sent me spam, another one sent me scripted material that made it seem like I was talking to a computer... you get my point. However, both Dr. True and Dr. Dorin consulted with me twice each, didn't attempt to rush or pressure me and remained very patient and welcoming. I also liaised with their patient reps, Peter and Eyal, who were very helpful and understanding. So I ended up simply feeling very comfortable, confident and trusting of them because of the high standard of care from the very beginning. As expected, they have continued to provide me with the same high level of care throughout my hair restoration journey. Knowing that your final three choices are among the best of the best, I think you should go with the ones that you feel most comfortable with, that understand you best, that listen to you and work with you. They have already won your mind with their results and reputations, now they have to win your heart with their patient care and customer service. Corvettester

Thanks for following up Zenmunk. I like your systematic approach. I hope some docs chime in. As for my case, I will say that most of my hair has now started to straighten out and mature. I'm 11 months post-op from my first procedure and 1 month post-op from my second... so I'll have to wait another full year to give a definitive answer. However, most of my worries have been put to rest. If things continue as is, I would say that transplanted hair should match native hair almost identically. I have a very discerning eye and high expectations and high standards so I will definitely keep you posted on my progress. Corvettester