corvettester

Sean, If you don’t qualify for personal loans or credit cards then that should be setting off alarams bells! You are not credit worthy. Obviously, you have bad credit and cannot manage your finances properly. Therefore, you should especially not risk putting an HT on a secured debt, such as a home or car. This is common sense. Do you understand what secured debt is? It means that if you can't pay, you lose your home. With unsecured debt you simply ruin your credit score and may end up in court, but it's usually settled outside of court for a lesser amount. I don’t care what Bill says about it. This is personal finance 101. You should never put an elective, non-life-threatening procedure against your home. That is simply reckless advice and in all honesty, probably the all-time worst advice I have ever seen given on the HTN. Moreover, I don’t understand how you consider paying your bills on time as being “on the top of your game.” It’s basic personal budgeting. If you’re living paycheck to paycheck, then you shouldn’t be getting an HT on credit in the first place because there are just too many unexpected accidents/ illnesses in life that can ruin you financially. The last thing you want to have to worry about is losing your home due to your HT. By the way, it’s not getting “screwed over” when you knowingly and willingly enter into a contract, violate the contract and then suffer the consequences. I'm not defending the predatory practices of the banking/credit industry either, but nobody forces anyone to use their services. Furthermore, I do not understand how any ethical physician would knowingly accept a patient who put his house on the line for an HT. That screams Body Dismorphic Disorder, which is when a person becomes so obsessed with his or her alleged defect that they lose all perspective and rational thought. Here is the link to a thread I started on it recently: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/162461-body-dysmorphic-disorder-syndrome.html Again, putting an HT on secured credit debt such as one's home or car is the worst thing you can do. It's reckless and irresponsible for anyone to suggest it as a viable option for financing any elective procedure, such as an HT. I can imagine that only a true shill with a vested interest in making a sale at any price would suggest such a dangerous idea. Corvettester

Bonkers, What are you even talking about? At this point, I have to ask what positive do you contribute to this community. Is this just another pathetic attempt to distract the community from the subject at hand? This thread isn't about my results or my hairline. Further, I have stated several times throughout the past year that I knew I would have to go back for a second pass, and it certainly wasn't to contour my hairline as you assume. All of this is easily verifiable because I have documented my case better than almost anyone on the HTN. As everyone who has followed my progress knows, I had to get a second pass because of a low yield from the first HT. I didn't have a satisfactory result. Not enough of the grafts took. I wasn't happy with that. Now that I put it in baby-talk, do you understand Bonkers? I've always been very transparent. Unlike you Bonkers, I'm no cheerleader. My loyalties are to myself and my result, period. The fact that I decided to tweak the hairline design is completely irrelevant. As I stated several times throughout the past year, I actually prefer the more contoured or straight hairline design as opposed to the jagged approach. How was I supposed to know which one I would prefer until after I got to live with it a while? I originally thought the that I'd like the jagged as it looks really good on most guys. However, due to my fair skin and blonde hair, I think a contoured hairline suits me better, just my personal preference is all. To each his own. There are only a handful of docs who do the contoured hairlines anyway, H&W, Rahal, Arocha, Bisanga, etc... The vast majority of coalition docs do the jagged. It's simply a matter of personal preference. And it's definitely NOT that reason I went back for a second pass. Further, as I stated in my posts starting last year, I knew from the beginning that I may have to go back for a second pass for density. I was hoping that 1,700 grafts would be enough, but now that I've been on the forums long enough and seen enough results, I know that NW3s need at least 3,000 grafts. Either way, as I stated throughout, I had a poor yield, so I had to go back. You think I'm lying? You think I'm pretending? Here are some of my updates from the past year verifying everything I said. You can see the evolution of my current preference as well. Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure you have sufficient reading comprehension skills to understand them... http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/158522-what-makes-better-hairline-uneven-perfectly-even.html http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/159626-review-true-dorin-part-1-3-pre-op.html http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/158812-two-month-update-dr-dorin-1-698-fut.html http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/159600-dr-dorin-1-696-fut-4-month-update.html http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/160457-6-month-update-dr-dorin-1-696-fut.html http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/161215-8-month-update-dr-dorin-1-696-fut.html Serioulsy Bonkers, you're making a fool of yourself. Your comments only prove your ignorance as well as a disingenuous, mean-spirited attempt at stirring up controversy. Everyone knows that you're not the smartest guy around, but we tolerate you because it's not about intelligence, it's about giving back to the community in a sincere and meaningful way, which anyone can do. However, I don't see that coming from you much lately. Unfortunately, I don't see you giving back much these days in much of anything, aside from snide, ad hominem attacks on dissenting posters. You're just more of a rabble rouser and trash-talker and it's really not impressing anyone. You're one of the most prolific posters on the HTN, yet you say so little... Now can we please get this thread back on topic.... Corvettester

Mike, Thanks for sharing. No doubt, you're in for a great result. A few questions though... 2,556 grafts seems a little on the low end for your amount of hair loss, especially considering that Rahal did your procedure. Why so few? Do you have a low donor supply? I can't tell from the pics, but did you address the crown? Regardless, I think I understand what the surgical strategy is... Grow well. I wish you the best. Corvettester

Lorenzo, Who is attacking H&W? If anything, from what I've seen, the overwehlming majority of posters, myself included, praise the countless successes of H&W... and with good reason. I bumped this thread to check in on AmanIndia. He's due for his one year update, and subsequent final result. For various reasons, his case is of particular interest to the community, and as I stated before, the class of 2011! I really hope it comes through for him. I think we all remember what a particularly emotional ordeal it was for him considering his personal story. He was a very sincere, albeit high-strung, poster who had a lot riding on his result. What's more, he was kind enough to share it with the community. Maybe Joetronic could chime in on this one... Have you heard anything from Aman, Joe? Corvettester

Bonkers, You're making a huge assumption. I don't think you're authorized to speak for Aman. Last time anyone heard from Aman, he was very concerned about his yield and dissatisfied with his progress. Thus, I fail to see how you can conclude that he's "clearly tranquil and happy." Doesn't it stands to reason that if he were happy, he would be posting his wonderful results? Corvettester

True, Rahal is a great surgeon and he has very competitive prices. When I consulted with him, he quoted me at $4 per graft, the same as True & Dorin. The only difference is that there is the damned VAT which is 12% if I'm not mistaken. There is no tax on medical procedures in NY. So with the tax and the travel expenses of flying to Ottawa, it would have been more expensive. Either way, Rahal is worth it. Corvettester

Sean, No offense, but I don't think much of your advice... I fail to see the difference between putting it on a credit card versus a financing service account such as Care Credit. Every credit card that I've ever used has had steep penalties for late payments such as fees or increased interest rates that exceed 10%. Credit card companies are no more noble than loan servicing companies and are often part and parcel of the same parent company. There really isn't any difference, in my opinion. Do you really think it's wise to take out and equity loan on your home, refinance or get a second mortgage for an HT? I mean, if you can't pay off a simple credit card or loan service payment on time, both of which are unsecured debt, why on earth would you put your home at risk? Quite frankly, that is terrible advice and a disaster waiting to happen. I don't understand how anyone could suggest such a reckless idea. Sell your car? Really? Does he even have a car? Unless he lives in NYC, how will he get to work each day, run errands, go out with friends, etc? Again, I think that is horrible advice.... Good luck finding an HT doc that offers private financing himself. I'm not saying that there isn't one out there, but I've never heard of it. The typical HT is about 10x as expensive as a typical dental procedure, so I really don't think it's tenable comparison... Saving money in advance is reasonable. Lot's of people do that. However, if he can get approved for a credit card or loan service, then why not go ahead with the HT and then start making payments because he will be losing time saving when he could be growing new hair! If done properly, as I did, he won't pay the credit company a penny! Going international is sound advice, but he specifically asked for NY doctors and I don't blame him. I have always argued that location is important and personally has been a great benefit and relief in my experience. It'd be different if he lived in Montana or Jamaica, however, I believe Bobby lives in NY. Again, I'd suggest that if Bobby is even a candidate for an HT, which I'm not yet sure he is, that he save up as much as possible and put the rest on a credit card or loan service plan with 0% interest for the first year and no early payment penalties. If any 29 year old isn't responsible enough to make minimum monthly payments on time, then I fail to see how he could be disciplined enough to save 15k for a procedure in the first place. Just saying.... Corvettester

Sean, Sounds like you have smart friends. Thanks for posting the links. This is the first I've seen of consumer complaints against Care Credit, everything else was just hearsay, which is why I suggested that Bobby research it himself. I don't doubt the experiences of the dissatisfied consumers, but I'm glad it worked out well for myself. The fact of the matter is, whether it's Care Credit, Citibank, Chase or whoever, they're going to try to nickel and dime you anyway possible. No lending institution has the consumer's best interest at heart. The next honest banking institution of integrity that I come across will be the first. I see that you are very much against Care Credit and I don't blame you. What alternatives do you suggest to Bobby? Corvettester

Hairthere, You guessed wrong. I didn't think it prudent to haggle or negotiate price with a cosmetic surgeon. It'd be different if I were buying a used car, but this is surgery! There was no negotiating or asking for special favors on my part. That's just not my style. The day of my first consultation, Dr. True gave me a 1,300 graft estimate at $4 per graft. He told me to take my time, and even went out of his way to mention that if I chose to undergo an HT with him, he would honor the original price quote. He said this because he actually wanted me to wait another year, just to be on the safe side, so he could compare photos of my hair. Of course, that was in 2009, so perhaps T&D have since changed their price structure. If so, I didn't know. I'll ask them the next time I go in for a follow up. Personally, I disagree with your suggestion of "haggling a bit on price." An HT is not a used car and I value the skill and dignity of the person performing it. Once during a consultation, a clinic rep quoted me $6 per graft. When I told him that Dr. True had quoted me $4 per graft just a week earlier, the rep immediately price dropped to match Dr. True's price. This disgusted me and I hope I don't have to explain why... Corvettester

Let me clarify. True & Dorin charged me $4 per graft, regardless of the number of grafts. Dr. Feller has a tiered pricing plan: the more grafts you purchase, the lower the price. So if you opt for 1,250 grafts from Feller, it'll be $5 per graft. If you opt for more, such as 3,000 grafts, the price will decrease to $4 per graft. Tiered pricing plans are common. Some docs have them, some don't. If I were you, I'd opt for the largest possible number of grafts, not so much to save money, but rather so as to minimize the chances of having to come back for a second procedure. FUT is no walk in the park. Either way, don't let price dictate your choice. This wasn't the case with the financing option I chose. They had no early payment penalty. I've heard that some do, but I wouldn't have gone with them if they did. Of course, if you miss a payment, I'm sure they're going to charge a fee or something like any and all credit cards do. So make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. If you're the type who has trouble making payments on time, then maybe it's not for you. I never had that problem though. I didn't pay any fees nor any interest whatsoever. Make sure to do your research. Good luck. Corvettester

Bobby, Of the three clinics you mentioned, True & Dorin charge the least for FUT. I don't know about their prices for FUE though, but it's usually double! I had my procedure with Dr. Dorin when I was 29 years old just like you and I just had my second procedure 6 weeks ago at age 30. I was a NW3 and I ended up getting a total of 3,000 grafts FUT. You can see my results in my signature below. As for how many grafts you'll be needing, I can't say for sure without seeing pics of your hair, but if you're truly a NW4A, then you're going to need at least 4,000 grafts to get an acceptable result. That is going to cost you a hell of a lot more than $3,000, probably closer to $15,000. Most reputable clinics charge between $4-5 per graft. So $3,000 grafts will get you around 750 grafts, which is nowhere near what you're going to need. You're definitely going to have to finance it. I used a financing option called Care Credit. They had 0% financing for the first year. It worked out well for me because I ended up paying it off in a couple months. However, I've heard of some posters having bad experiences with them, so I'd do some research on it if I were you. Also, if you've been having no luck with Propecia or Rogain, you may not even be a candidate for HT in the first place. As stated, you've been losing hair since age 19, and you're a NW4A at age 29, you could very well lose a lot more hair. If Propecia isn't stabilizing your hair loss, then I don't know if an HT is a viable option for you. Were you consistent with your use of Propecia? Or were you on-again/off-again? What is your family history like? How bald are the men in your family, both paternal and maternal? Post some pics to get more accurate advice. Corvettester

Matt, Thanks for your input. It makes sense. I guess this just about seals the deal for me. Truth be told, good riddance! I'm glad I don't need it. I don't look forward to complicating my life any more with more products... you should see my bathroom already! Not to mention, some of the potential side effects that I have read about... Otherwise, without further ado, if there be anyone present who may show just and lawful cause why Nizoral should be incorporated into my daily routine, let him speak now or forever hold his peace. Corvettester

Unbelievable! Corvettester

Hey dude, You're coming up on your one year anniversary... how's it going? You last mentioned at 7 months, you were a little concerned with density, but it looked very promising otherwise. I hope the density issues have panned out and that you're on your way to a wow result. I've been following you and AmanIndia because all three of us are about the same age and we all had our HTs within a couple weeks of each other. Here's to the graduating class of 2011! Corvettester

Any new updates Aman? It's been almost 4 months since your last update. You should be close to your one year final result now. I'm keen to know how you're doing, as are many others... I've been following you and YouOnlyLiveOnce from the beginning because the three of us are about the same age and we had our HTs only a couple weeks apart. We're the graduating class of 2011! However, I haven't heard from you guys in months, so I really hope everything is coming along well. Give us an update when you can. Take care, buddy. Corvettester

Joetronic, Thanks for calling it like it is. I appreciate your candor. I will be discussing Propecia and Rogain with Dr. Dorin next month. I'll be sure to get the community's opinion as well in a new thread. I want to do this right. Corvettester

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Joetronic, I'd be interested to hear any of your recommendations for shampoos. What has worked for you? To answer some of your questions... No, I don't have an oily scalp, hair or inflammation, nor do I have dandruff. My hair feels pretty strong as it is now, especially in the midsection and crown. The frontal third is where it's thinnest. And I really do feel like there is a difference since I started the Biotin megadose. Cardel25 asked about my family history... As far as my family history goes, my paternal grandfather was a NW7 by his mid twenties. However, he is the only one in the family like that. My father has only recently lost hair, his crown, but his frontal third has definitely receded. I feel like this is pretty standard considering that he is 65 years old. It's the same with my paternal uncles. Growing up they all had hair, but now that they're all in their sixties, they're starting to lose it. The maternal side of the family is completely different. My maternal grandfather had a full head of hair until his death. Same goes with all my maternal uncles too. So far, I haven't heard a very compelling argument for Nizoral or Revita, at least not for my personal situation. I'll wait to hear back from more posters, but as of now, I think I'm going to pass on it, just as I chose to do with Saw Palmetto. So as it stands now, I'm just taking Biotin 6,000mcg, a Multivitamin and a Vitamin C Megadose. I don't find taking the vitamins to be a big deal at all. It's just part of my routine. I take them after meals, it's no big deal really. I'm going in for a follow up next month with Dr. Dorin where I will take more photos of my crown and midsection. We've been monitoring it for the past year now. Then I will discuss whether or not to start on Rogain and / or Propecia. I'll be sure to get the community's opinion on the matter too. Thanks again everyone. Corvettester

Levrais & Aaron, So what is the purpose of Nizoral then? I read that it had DHT blockers so in theory it prevented hair loss. Not to mention all the talk of the "Big 3" that I hear coming from posters... Corvettester

I'd say 6-8 months, but it's different for everyone...

Levrais, Didn't mean to neglect you buddy, but I just don't buy it... at least not yet. I feel the same way about ACell. It's one of those things that I would wait until there is a lot more information published, as well as verifiable results. I've seen a few pics here and there, and in theory it sounds like it should help. However, I just haven't seen enough results to even begin to consider it... You're hair is looking outstanding these days Levrais. So I'd wait this one out if I were you... Corvettester

Gentlemen, In an effort to create a viable hair restoration regimen for myself, I'm considering starting on 1% Nizoral or Revita Shampoo, once/twice weekly. I've already used the search function here on the HTN, but I'd like to get the rest of the community's advice, thoughts or any opinions on the matter since a lot of you guys know my situation already. However, I'm still uncertain as to what to expect from it. I understand that it is designed to be a dandruff shampoo, but hair loss sufferers use it "off-lable." Is this to prevent further loss such as Propecia, or to regrow / reactivate hair such as Rogain? Should I go with the 1% or 2% version? Should I use it more than once a week? Should I expect any shedding? If so, how much? What sort of result should I expect? Will it be noticeable? Which is better, Nizoral or Revita? The way I see it, I've already spent so much money on HTs that it would be foolish not to employ other practical treatment options to preserve and improve my remaining hair. So to that end, I've already been shelling out dough for high-end shampoo and conditioners, styling products and going to upscale hair salons. Currently, I'm taking daily Biotin 6,000mcg, Hair, Skin & Fingernail Multivitamin, and a Vitamin C Megadose. I decided against Saw Palmetto due to the dearth of evidence suggesting that it actually works, as well as the recommendations of the community. I use Skin Science Shampoo (developed by Dr. Dorin), Bumble & Bumble and Oribe. I'm also considering medication such as Propecia and Rogain as well, but I will address that later in another thread. For now it's Nizoral or Revita. Again, I'd really appreciate any information, even if it isn't from first-hand experience. Corvettester

Hey dude, I know that you have it in your signature, but is that all you've ever done in terms of medication? I ask because you have had probably the best result from medication from anyone that I have ever seen on the HTN. It actually appears that it has regrown a significant portion of your hair, as opposed to simply preventing further loss. You looked like a NW5 in the pre-med pics, but in the post-med pics you looked like a NW3V!!! So my question is this: is the regiment listed in your signature what you have been doing from the very beginning in terms of medication? Also, have you experienced any side-effects? Again, you have the best result from mediation that I have ever seen. You and I have similar hair characteristics so I'm interested to know because I'm seriously considering starting medication as well. Any advice you could give me would be appreciated. Lastly, I hope your HT is coming along well. Be sure to post some pics in the coming months. Corvettester

Levrais, Good questions... What Fakeplastictrees meant was that it's simply going to be so expensive that FUT will always be an option for a lot patients, especially the younger ones who haven't really started in on their careers or even people from developing countries whose money isn't worth much relative to the dollar. Hopefully over time, the price will lower, but that usually takes a long time... As for the downsides, the price is the major one. Another one is that it doesn't address the issue of donor supply. So no matter what, when you remove FUs, there won't be hair in the area where the FUs are removed. However, this will be minimized in the same manner as FUE by spreading it throughout the entire head, except without the punctate scars and without having to shave the donor or recipient area! Cool stuff right? No, it's nothing like Nair or any type of formula. It is a technique for removing hair. There are no formulas, ACell, cloning or any type of medication, plasma or anything like that. Think of it as an improved technique to extract the FUs. The only thing that is needed are new tools, and a new approach to extract them... Ok, I'll say no more... my lips are sealed! It's coming soon enough. Corvettester

Bill, Dr. Wesley is very transparent in regard to his tools and techniques that he uses in his current practice. However, his new method is still in the development / trail phase and it would be tantamount to intellectual property suicide for him to reveal it to the public, in my opinion. From what I understand, when FUE was developed, the technique wasn't shared with the HT industry. So, the HT industry responded with extreme skepticism and denounced it as dangerous, reckless and unethical, because they simply didn't know how to do it... and how to make money off of it! From what I've heard, the HTN too was among those establishments that were skeptical of FUE when it first arrived and cautioned against it. However, once doctors figured out how to do it, it was adopted widespread and now it's highly regarded. Therefore, if history is any indicator of the future, I think it would be unwise for Dr. Wesley to share his new technique with the general public, just yet. I told him as much... I can imagine how every HT doc in the business is going to jump on this and claim that they are a pioneer in the new technique, blah blah blah... Dr. Wesley is under no moral or ethical obligation to reveal his new technique with the HTN or any online community. He should guard it closely until the trials have been completed both for his personal stake, but also so as to not generate any unnecessary hysteria or false hopes among the community. I mean, how often do we hear about "The next big thing" in hair restoration, just to see it putter out? Well, I do think this is the next big thing, because it's an extension of FUT/FUE technique, and not some esoteric, theoretical lab experiment. The good news though, it's been in development for three years now, so once the trials are done, which should be in the next 6 months or so, it will simply be a matter of putting it all together for adoption. Dr. Wesley is hoping to have everything completed and ready for adoption by this time next year. So be patient... Corvettester

Trees, I could be wrong, but I think you were referring to my original post on this thread making "irresponsible" statements when I said: Well, I stand behind my statements with full confidence. I do believe it has the potential to replace FUT/FUE in the next couple years because who would want to get FUT with the long, linear scar and the trauma and recovery period, or FUE with the punctate scars and a potential for lower yield? If this technique works, which I think it will, the only people who will opt for FUT/FUE will be those who simply cannot afford it. Dr. Wesley's method is going to be as expensive as FUE, if not more. If you're a patient needing 5,000 grafts, you're easily looking at a 50k procedure... not too many people can afford that even with financing. Although, of course, over time the price will lower, but that will take years. Therefore, I do think this will replace FUT/FUE, because if it works as intended, it will effectively negate all the drawbacks of FUT/FUE. It will... 1. Give a higher yield than FUT and FUE. 2. Leave no visible scaring, either linear or punctate. 3. Much less invasive than both procedures, so there will be little down time and virtually no post-op pain. 4. Enable a greater pool of potential candidates, such as those from African descent with extremely curly hair, and women who don't want to shave for FUE or have a linear scar. 5. Eliminates folliculitis from "buried" grafts 6. Subsequent surgeries are not hampered by fibrotic tissue from a prior session 7. The grafts can be harvested and planted at the same time so that grafts remain outside for a matter of minutes, as opposed to hours with FUE/ FUT. 8. The protective tissue around each FU is maximized; thus enhancing survival. 9. Just like FUE, the doc gets to chose which grafts to extract, so he can go for a lot of singles or doubles or triples... Considering all these factors, I can't see how anyone in their right mind would chose FUT or FUE over Dr. Wesley's method. The only reason anyone would do so would be due to the fact that the new technique requires an even higher level of surgical skill than FUT/FUE so that it will be more labor intensive from the doctor's perspective, therefore making it significantly more expensive. Further, because the new technique requires new tools that must also be developed and perfected, it requires a very large capital investment which will obviously be passed on to the consumer, therefore making it prohibitively expensive for many patients. Dr. Wesley told me that it will cost as much as FUE, if not a little more. I consider that to be prohibitively expensive for most guys. Think about it, even if you just need a 3,000 graft FUT, that's only going to cost you around $12-15k. But if you want to do the same thing with FUE, you're looking at close to a $25,000-30,000 procedure! That's a lot of money and I think it's enough to sway a lot of men to just say, forget it, I'll go with the FUT because they can't afford to spend 30-50k on a hair transplant. So yes, I do think Dr. Wesley's method has the potential to replace FUT/FUE. I mean, look at the HT industry today. From what I understand, there are still doctors doing mini-graft plug work out there, even though we have FUT/FUE, just saying ... Corvettester