Rogaine liquid or Rogaine Foam

[Bleachcola12]

Actually, John maybe right.

 

I just sent an email to Dr. Bernstein and he stated that Propelyne Glycol is actually very important.

[Rick055]

I only read the titles, but isn't there a flaw in thinking something that's effective for alopecia areata and/or contact dermatitis would be effective for treating alopecia androgenica?

[Stimpson]

Indeed, Rick, there would appear to be essentially no relation between alpecia areata, and alopecia androgenica (i.e. MPB).

 

Alopecia areata is generally thought to be caused by stress or anxiety, although the causes are unknown. MPB of course is DHT choking off the hair according to genetic pre-programming.

 

I think the entire argument for the liquid minox is that the propylene glycol causes follicle irritation, which opens the entrance and allows the minox to penetrate better. That is the gist of it from what I have found online and in patent apps and so forth. See US patent 5,972,345 which uses stinging nettle for the same purpose. Albeit, this may not be the intended purpose of the propylen glycol in rogaine, but I think john is saying this is an effect.

 

Supposedly, however, the foam penetrates better. Does it *really*? I don't know.

 

I know one thing though, and that is that irritatants are, well... irritating.

 

Just my opinion - I'll take my chances with the foam. Seems to work okay for me. The liquid was not usable in my case.

 

Truth be told, minox is not wildly acclaimed for growing hair anyway. It seems better at strengthening and holding what you have. Most of the tremendous results come from the minox/finersteride combo, and not just the minox alone.

 

Stimpy

[Ceasar08]

I was on minoxidil liquid for about three years with very decent results. That was without Finasteride (which I cannot take unfortunately).

 

After the first three years, I lost gains rapidly. I switched to the foam right when it came out, because I was under the impression that it worked better. It seemed like things had stabilized for about a year, but then I had the worst shed of my life. At this point, I'm debating if it's even worth it to try the liquid again.

 

I would really love to know exactly what dr. Bernstein said... I would also love to hear from another doctor on the topic of the propelyne glycol. There are a lot of threads on other forums which address the foam vs. liquid issue, and everyone seems to have a different opinion. Some people feel the foam worked better for them, while others swear that they went downhill right after they made the switch.

I agree that Minoxidil is generally not great long-term without Propecia.

[Stimpson]

Ceaser - It's tricky, because "going downhill right after making the switch" could be a minox induced shed phase, which *could* be indicative of good results to come from the foam. I tried the liquid about a year ago, and was quickly reminded why I stopped using it many years ago. I switched to the foam, and shed like crazy. But in fairness, I started finesteride about the same time, so I don't know exactly what caused the shedding. It might have been induced by the finesteride.

 

Stimpy

[Dr. William Lindsey]

With any medicine compliance and consistant use is more than half the battle.

 

I have not used either, BUT, of Rogaine using patients coming into my office, 90% think the foam is a better product and that they use it as directed as compared to the liquid which irritated their scalp.

 

Thus, if I had to go back in time with one or the other, I would take the foam.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[Stimpson]

Thank you Dr. Lindsey. That is precisely what I meant when I said I could not even use the liquid. I dreaded applying the liquid. Between the irritation and the greasiness it ended up not being worth the trouble. The foam is no problem at all.

 

Stimpy

[Smoothy]

Liquid xtra strength and Foam Rogaine are about equal in effecacy but Foam doesnt leave as much residue as liquid. I like Foam better for that but Foam is more expensive?

 

SMOOTHY

Dr. Shapiro

Propecia/Rogaine xtra

MSM/Saw Palmetto/Zinc

Nioxin Shampoo line

Zrii 3oz Daily

[Eman]

this has been a very interesting thread and am reading it as I am about to go out and buy the foam per doctors orders. I am to begin to apply two weeks after my HT and want to make sure I use the most effective one.

 

I used the liquid for about 5+ years and never had an issue, but was told to use the foam.

 

I will eagerly be reading this thread and hope more docs like Dr. Lindsey will respond.

[Bleachcola12]

Hopefully we can get Pat to encourage some other physicians to shed light on this topic

[Ceasar08]

Thanks Dr. Lindsey. I would love to hear from more experts on this topic.

 

I agree that the foam is wonderful to use, and that the liquid is a major pain. My concern is whether the studies show the liquid to be more effective. If so, I would sacrifice the convenience for the results.

 

I have no idea whether switching to the foam made me lose my gains or not. I was able to tolerate the propelyne glycol, so I would definitely use it again if it grows more hair.

[Bleachcola12]

That is what im thinking Ceaser. Hell i will use both products if it gets me results, i dont care.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hopefully we can get Pat to encourage some other physicians to shed light on this topic

 

Bleach,

 

Great idea. If I get some time in the next week or so, I will contact a few physicians and ask them to offer their opinion.

 

Additionally, I did just write the first draft of this week's forum newsletter to be sent by the end of this week. This topic is included in the newsletter with a link to this thread. Hopefully this will also entice some of our physician subscribers to add their medical input.

 

The title of this particular topic will read something like

 

"Why Rogaine Liquid May Be Superior to Rogaine Foam".

 

Personally, I think the foam overall is a better product because it's easier to apply and less of a scalp irritant. Whether or not the Propylene Glycol works to make absorption of the minoxidil easier, I don't know. I've also read that foam in general is better at penetration. So there appears to be some conflicting information out there.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Ceasar08]

Bill--- I really appreciate you pursuing the issue on this thread. There has been a ton of conflicting information. On one hand, we've been told that absorption and delivery is superior with the foam. On the other hand, the studies really seem to indicate less of a hair growth effect. I'd love to get a straight answer.

 

There is no question that the foam is the superior product in terms of irritation, convenience, etc. The question is whether it is as powerful.

[Bleachcola12]

Do it Bill!

 

I agree with you guys on the foam being a better penetrator, but the liquid may have a secret weapon because of the propylene glycol. almost every success story i have read has come from liquid minoxidil I DO BELIEVE, dont quote me on that. I have asked a few docs and they have said that they are not familiar with propylene glycol, only Dr. Bernstein could say that it could play a major factor in hair regrowth. Ah, if there were only a propylene glycol foam!

[Dr Proctor]

In the first rogaine studies it was found that the vehicle-alone-treated group showed about 40% (or so) of the increase in hair numbers of the vehicle plus minoxidil group. At first, it was thought that this was merely an artifact of the experimenters getting better at counting hair with time. Follow-up studies showed that it was a real effect. That is, the Rogaine vehicle stimulates some hair growth.

 

The vehicle is a combination of propylene glycol, ethyl alcohol, and water. Of the three agents, the most likely hair growth stimulator is propylene glycol.

 

Mechanism ? It has been known since ancient times that agents effective against seborrheic dermatitis ( "tars", ketoconazole, etc. ) have some activity against pattern hair loss. Propylene glycol has some activity against seborrheic dermatitis.

 

Peter H. Proctor, PhD,MD

[rjnebbo]

I would sum this up to say if you can tolerate the liquid and the greasy type feeling then use the liquid. Otherwise use the Foam.

 

Also I think that since Rogaine's original formula PATENT came up, they needed to come up with a new product, and since many had reactions to the liquid and the greasy complaint, it works out for everyone. WIN WIN situation.

 

How about use the liquid in the AM then use the Foam in the PM! That is of course if you can tolerate the liquid formula

 

Good thread...

[lanthanos]

Actually in the paper that compared Rogaine 5% liquid, 2% liquid, and placebo, the placebo grew only 20% as many hairs as 5% (18.6 for Rogaine 5% versus 3.9 for placebo at 48 weeks).

 

There is a really interesting, weird contradiction in the problems with the vehicle. According to the same paper, Rogaine 5% liquid caused contact dermatitis in 6% of patients, while placebo (vehicle) caused contact dermatitis in 0% of patients. So if it was the vehicle that was causing contact dermatitis, you'd expect that the placebo and the 5% Rogaine would have the exact same % of patients with contact dermatitis, but they didn't. Which says to me it's not the vehicle that is the problem.

 

The contradiction is that 3 patients in the 5% liquid Rogaine group were withdrawn from the study due to contact dermatitis, and they had patch allergy tests done for allergy to propylene glycol, and 2 of the 3 were positive, the third was equivocal. So this tells me it is the vehicle that's the problem.

 

Confusing.

 

"A randomized clinical trial of 5% topical minoxidil versus 2% topical minoxidil and placebo in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia in men"

 

Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology - Volume 47, Issue 3 (September 2002)

[Steve514]

is it ok to use both liquid and foam? as someone said earlier one am and one pm?

 

thanks

[Maxxy]

Hey Steve514,

 

I can't see the harm in it. There is also data to suggest one application per day is just, or almost as successful as a twice per day application (personally, I still use it twice per day).

[Steve514]

Thanks maxxy,

which do u use? foam or liquid?

 

steve

[Maxxy]

I'm actually back on the foam now but I have used the liquid in the past.

[urty]

I saw the same results from liquid as foam. I think if there is any difference its mostly placebo. I buy the 10% liquid here without a prescription http://www.emedoutlet.net/ and it worked just as good as the foam for me.

Edited August 1, 2013 by urty

[ready4Hair]

This is the 5% Rogaine Foam study abstract submitted to the FDA for its approval.

 

...1-inch diameter area on the scalp vertex. In addition, a gross visual estimate of the degree of new hair growth over the entire balding area was made independently by the investigator and the patient. At the end of 4 months there was significant regrowth of nonvellus (terminal and indeterminate) hairs in the patients using the 2% and 3% solutions (p = 0.0001). The mean nonvellus hair count at month 4 was 162.8 in the 2% minoxidil group, 155.4 in the 3% minoxidil group, and 107.1 in the placebo group. The mean increase in the 2% and 3% treatment groups was 58.2 and 48.8, respectively, whereas the mean increase in the placebo group was 4.0. ....

 

These were pretty bald men. 1 inch diameter is about 3 sq inches which is about 20 sq centimeters. We are told that full hair is around 40-100 hairs per square cm. This would mean one would expect 800-2000 hairs in a normal or at least not perceived to be balding head in a 1 inch diameter. These men were on average 162 AFTER treatment putting them at about 8 hairs per cm2?

 

It would be folly I think to use % increase as well; it looks like a massive 40% to 50% increase (which jibes with some earlier studies which showed 40% in the first months tailing off to 25% in two years) but I would bet that is quite dependent on the starting point; in other words men showing significant loss with 8 hers per cm2 who increased to 12 per cm would not translate to men with say thinning 30 per cm2 increasing to 45 or 50.