is FUE totally safe?

[windjc]

I thought I was sorta bright, but this whole "the best way to get the most grafts is to do strip first and FUE second" makes ZERO sense to me.

 

Why on earth could someone not get just as many grafts by doing FUE first and strip second?

 

Either way you use ALL the grafts on the flesh that is completely removed from your head with strip and SOME of the grafts everywhere else.

 

I'd love to know how you can somehow harvest more grafts by doing strip followed by FUE.

 

It makes no sense to me although people post it on different threads constantly.

 

Was this something Feller posted and so everyone just went along with the theory?

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by windjc:

I thought I was sorta bright, but this whole "the best way to get the most grafts is to do strip first and FUE second" makes ZERO sense to me.

 

Why on earth could someone not get just as many grafts by doing FUE first and strip second?

 

Either way you use ALL the grafts on the flesh that is completely removed from your head with strip and SOME of the grafts everywhere else.

 

I'd love to know how you can somehow harvest more grafts by doing strip followed by FUE.

 

It makes no sense to me although people post it on different threads constantly.

 

Was this something Feller posted and so everyone just went along with the theory?

 

I think its difficult to make a logical argument without facts to back it up.

 

I believe hte claim that FUE will not provide as many grafts is because of inevitable transection of surrounding grafts and Feller's claim of the "scarring matrix" that forms in the donor after significant FUE removal.

 

OTH, at least 10% of follicles in a strip removal are in dormant state and will be forever lost.

 

The bottom line is results and cost. I havent seen any impressive NW5-6 conversions with FUE. Period. I have seen many from strip.

 

That said, being a strip patient, I am aware that the strip removal has its own problems. I totally understand someone making a logical argument for FUE.

 

At the end of the day, can anyone point to complete NW5-6 conversions via FUE?

[Maxxy]

the best way to get the most grafts is to do strip first and FUE second" makes ZERO sense to me.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. Below is a post that I wrote on another thread... others might not agree, but it seems very logical to me.

 

"In FUE, there is only so much you can take before the area looks thin, however, in a strip you are also removing the skin as a result you do not encounter that problem.

 

If you started off by getting large FUE procedures, then you pretty much have to continue with FUE. To get a strip procedure at a later date, you would have to get a wider strip taken as the donor would be depleted."

[Topcat611]

Bill, I agree it all does comes down to having a skilled surgeon perform the work. I also agree with spreading the work out and just doing small sessions.

 

I did see a patient that had over 7000 fue's. He cuts his hair very short, I guess that would be a 1 or 2 guard. It looks incredible and is absolutely impossible for the most seasoned ht veteran to tell any work has been done. I viewed this work in daylight at a distance of only a few inches. The work was done by Dr. Bisanga and was incredible.

 

I don't think anyone if they had a chance to view this work would ever opt for a strip, but this is just my opinion. In the end everyone needs to do what is best for them.

[hairthere]

I still stand by my statement that I have had 200 fue's extracted from my face by Dr. Bisanga and I have no scarring along

 

This is a misconception about fue. The scarring may not be visible, but there is scarring. And this can make potential problems for future procedures, fue or strip. Every fue patient should be aware of this fact before having the procedure done.

[Topcat611]

Okay, no visable scarring. For those interested here are some pictures of my healing process. Hopefully this will help address the original poster's concern of scarring. As you can see the little that can be seen of the strip scars, clearly stands out.

 

 

http://tinyurl.com/y8m256z

[TC17]

Maybe right now we can't get as much yield from FUE as we can strip, but if anything, that seems to be a limitation with the technology, and not a limitation from a donor area.

 

Even very bald men will have a 3 inch high, and 12 inch long rim of hair to draw donor from. If you assume an average density of 80 follicular units per sq centimeter, and you only taken 30 follicular units, you will get 7,000 grafts from a donor that size. As for a moth eaten look, I find that unlikely because the donor would still have 62.5% of it's original density.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I did see a patient that had over 7000 fue's. He cuts his hair very short, I guess that would be a 1 or 2 guard. It looks incredible and is absolutely impossible for the most seasoned ht veteran to tell any work has been done.

 

Topcat,

 

I'm not suggesting the above isn't possible. But it takes not only a skilled physician, but a patient with exceptional donor density (and scalp characteristics for optimal extraction) to be able to pull that off. Clearly, the patient you're referring to was an optimal candidate for FUE.

 

You will find the above example is the exception rather than the rule with FUE.

 

I don't think anyone if they had a chance to view this work would ever opt for a strip, but this is just my opinion.

 

And this is what makes your line of thinking so dangerous. If everyone judged results by the exceptions and not the norm, most would be in for a huge disappointment. Most people fall at the top of the bell curve, not to the right or left. 7000 FUE with no signs of scarring is far to the right. But it's much more typical with FUT in two procedures.

 

Again to clarify, I'm not anti-FUE at all. But I'm pro REALISTIC FUE and certainly don't want to see patients charter down a path and later regret their decision.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Windjc,

 

In addition to the information other members provided above, here's a link to a Q&A blog article I wrote some time ago that may help you.

 

Which one is Better to Maximize Hair Counts via Hair Transplant Surgery ??“ FUT then FUE or the Other way Around?

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Topcat611]

I had 200 fue extracted from my face in a fairly small area and there is no visible scarring. I think you can take that same area, extrapolate it and easily see how 7000 fue can be extracted from the scalp and I would far from consider myself the exception to the rule. I plan on extracting anywhere from 300-500 fue from my face on my next procedure and I will be sure to post the results so that others my learn.

 

I would be the last person in the world to post something that I thought would harm others or be considered dangerous. I have been through too much in this crooked industry and would never wish this on anyone. I have plenty of repair patients that have become my friends, and we all know this too well.

 

But as I said I have also seen terrible scarring from fue by other doctors. So for me personally it comes down to the skill and ethics of the surgeon.

 

But this is just my opinion and I have seen much over the last 25 years. But I really have to thank and respect you for allowing me to state it.

[windjc]

Originally posted by Maxxy:

the best way to get the most grafts is to do strip first and FUE second" makes ZERO sense to me.

 

It makes perfect sense to me. Below is a post that I wrote on another thread... others might not agree, but it seems very logical to me.

 

"In FUE, there is only so much you can take before the area looks thin, however, in a strip you are also removing the skin as a result you do not encounter that problem.

 

If you started off by getting large FUE procedures, then you pretty much have to continue with FUE. To get a strip procedure at a later date, you would have to get a wider strip taken as the donor would be depleted."

 

 

Sorry, Maxxy. This logic makes no sense. Its still the SAME amount of grafts either way. If you do strip first, more of the grafts will come from strip. If you do FUE first, more of the grafts will come from FUE. Either way, same amount of grafts.

 

Any theory that says strip first - FUE second = more grafts is assuming transection in FUE. Thats an ASSUMPTION.

[windjc]

Originally posted by Bill - Managing Publisher:

Windjc,

 

In addition to the information other members provided above, here's a link to a Q&A blog article I wrote some time ago that may help you.

 

Which one is Better to Maximize Hair Counts via Hair Transplant Surgery ??“ FUT then FUE or the Other way Around?

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

 

Thanks Bill,

 

But I think your arguments include financial ones, which I wasn't referring to. Also, imo, the arguments against FUE first still include transection.

 

As techniques improve, this is becoming more of a dated argument.

 

I am living proof that you can get density just as good in a FUE procedure as strip. And there are many others.

 

Anyway, I still think you have good important points in most of what you say regarding the comparison between the two.

 

I simply advocate patients looking at every conceivable option before deciding long term course of action.

[Maxxy]

Windjc,

 

If you read the line I quoted you on

the best way to get the most grafts is to do strip first and FUE second" makes ZERO sense to me.

 

There is no doubt whatsoever that my reasoning is correct. If you plan on maxing out your entire donor, the "BEST" way is to max out with FUT followed by FUE.

 

Like you said, you're an intelligent man. Come on, think about it... perhaps in the final result you would end up with the same amount of grafts if you're lucky, but I personally wasn't disagreeing with that. If you are wanting to get every graft possible it would be foolish to use large FUE sessions first followed by strips; it simply doesn't make sense.

 

If strips were taken first then you know exactly how many grafts you can get, where from (using FUE) and still hide previous work (if further FUT sessions weren't an option), But if large FUE sessions were used first there is no way in telling how many strips/grafts you could later get due to laxity issues, healing from previous surgeries , etc.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I some how managed to misread the line I quoted you on (twice) lol. I missed the word "most" in the quote, though I still stand by what I wrote.

[Bill - Seemiller]

TopCat,

 

If you think producing 7000 scalp FUE is the rule and not the exception, please post links to 10 patients who've had close to 7000 FUE who've posted clear photos of their results (recipient and donor showing optimal growth and no signs of scarring or a moth eaten donor.

 

If you can produce these, I'll buy into the possibility of what you're saying. Otherwise, I think you should consider that this is the exception - especially since leading physicians who offer quality and sensible FUE would agree with this.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Windjc,

 

Most of the information in the article I wrote came from the pros and cons from leading hair restoration physicians who perform FUE. I certainly wouldn't call the information dated (at least not yet), especially since we've seen no real evidence of signficant change at this point.

 

But I agree...in the end, patients should explore all their options before taking action. That said, I'm concerned that there's so much hype surrounding FUE, that some will buy into the baloney and be left disappointed.

 

All the Best,

 

Bill

[Topcat611]

I think maybe you misunderstood me. I didn't write that 7000 fue was the rule. What I was trying to say was that I had 200 fue extracted from my face in a very concentrated area. In that area I have no visible scarring. I attibute this to the skill of the surgeon. I can see where more sessions over time will have the same result.

 

I was just trying to address the original poster's question on fue and scarring. Bascially they are relying on opinions of others. Since I have been around so long and seen so much I thought I would just offer my help.

 

So I think if he wants a ht and needs to shave down on occasion, fue is the way to go, but just to be careful on who he picks to perform the surgery. I hope this helps clear things up.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Topcat,

 

My post to you was addressing the below statement which appeared to imply that you thought that getting 7000 FUE was the rule rather than the exception:

 

"I had 200 fue extracted from my face in a fairly small area and there is no visible scarring. I think you can take that same area, extrapolate it and easily see how 7000 fue can be extracted from the scalp and I would far from consider myself the exception to the rule."

 

But from your last message, I assume you agree that getting such large numbers with FUE is the exception?

 

I do agree that FUE can very well produce unnoticeable scarring and is a good solution for some men with minimal hair loss who want to shave down.

 

All the Best,

 

Bill

[Topcat611]

Yes I think there are just not enough patients attempting that high a number to know if it's going to be the rule but my guess is that it will come in time. But you are right I really wasn't addressing that point.

 

I was addressing just the point of scarring as asked by the original poster. I can see where scarring would not be a problem because Dr. Bisanga extracted the 200 fue from just the chin area of my face and like I said there is no visible scarring. Can all ht doctors achieve this probably not. That's why it's so important to do the research.

 

Thanks for giving me the chance to clear this up.