Verteporfin Experiment On My Own - Turkey Clinic

[FLEngineer]

Hello everybody,

We've all seen the verteporfin transplant trials and their premature results.  I have been convinced enough by them to roll the dice with it.  I have found a clinic in Turkey, Atraxia clinic, that is willing to use Verteporfin injections at 1.0mg/mL per cm^2 for a very affordable price.  My plan is to go there in October, get as many grafts as they will allow me to (Approx. ~4000-4500) depending on my donor area.  I want to document this as well as I can so taking pictures before and after, and so on.  I am currently a Norwood 5A, been on dutasteride and oral minoxidil for 2 years.  Unfortunately for my hair I also use low-moderate levels of steroids which is not good.  Yes, they are a cheap hair mill, but with Verteporfin as an option I care about sheer graft count since I'm willing to risk it with growing back my donor and I would be more than willing to get a second "touch up" later by a reputable doctor for my crown or to design it better.  Just reinforcing my high hairline and providing density here, not getting aggressive with it.

My plan:

I will be using healing peptides throughout the initial process.  My friend used bpc157 and his shedding process was much less than mine was, I suspect that this stack will at least reduce the shedding/ugly duckling phase and improve healing time.

2mg/day of GHK-Cu starting 7 days before surgery for 6 weeks total

400mcg BPC157 2x per day starting 3 days before surgery for 6 weeks total

3mg/day TB500 injectible starting 3 days before surgery for 6 weeks total

Considering adding in 2IU HGH daily as well, haven't decided on that one yet but it would be a good excuse to test it out lol.

Other than that, I take a good multivitamin/supplement health stack.  Cod liver oil, fish oil, zinc, multivitamin, taurine, collagen, high protein diet with vegetables.

 

Also I am very tempted to try using VS-6062 in topical form mixed with DSMO on my recipient site on top of my scalp.  VS-6063 is supposed to be a much stronger version of Verteporfin when it comes to scar healing and restoring original cells.  I suspect that my first botched transplant caused some damage to my scalp, since I have "dead zones" around where they implanted the new hairs and I'd like to get rid of that scar tissue if I can.  Perhaps they would inject the verteporfin here as well, I'm not sure.  Maybe this could bring back some native hairs and again speed up healing.  Highly questioning this, I definitely mostly care about using my donor site and ensuring I get good density and a solid hairline first.  It's also a research drug and it would be research quality, which is not ideal and I have no idea how I could even determine if it was effective or not afterward since I'll have the surgeons implant hairs around the low density spots anyway.

I will try to refrain from using GT20029 or HMI-115 if those become available later in the year, at least until mid 2025 or until I've determined to my own personal satisfaction if my results were good or not.

 

Any thoughts on this, or suggestions on how to document this?  More than happy to discuss making some changes to my plan.

Edited May 8 by FLEngineer

[Berba11]

48 minutes ago, FLEngineer said:

Yes, they are a cheap hair mill, but…

And what are you going to do when you end up with a linear, pluggy and unnatural looking hairline that draws people’s eye?

Hair mills don’t just risk a patient’s donor… They also leave people with dodgy hairlines. 
 

It’s your head though at the end of the day. 

[FLEngineer]

8 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

And what are you going to do when you end up with a linear, pluggy and unnatural looking hairline that draws people’s eye?

Hair mills don’t just risk a patient’s donor… They also leave people with dodgy hairlines. 
 

It’s your head though at the end of the day. 

In that case, I will take my verteporfin regenerated donor area and pay the premium to get a perfect hairline through Laorwong or someone else that's highly rated on here 12 months later.

My friend went with 10 of his family members to this clinic, and every one of then had a very solid 8/10 result from it.  I'm willing to roll the dice for verteporfin.  Not gonna lower my hairline or do anything crazy, just reinforce what I have now and add density.

Edited May 8 by FLEngineer

[Berba11]

5 minutes ago, FLEngineer said:

n that case, I will take my verteporfin regenerated donor area and pay the premium to get a perfect hairline

You have no idea if verteporfin will achieve what you hope it will achieve, and you’re putting verteporfin in the hands of a clinic that haven’t been participating in or using the formula previously, which is a pretty big variable when it comes to administering V and getting the optimal possible outcome from it. 
 

For someone who doesn’t have a good track record in selecting a reputable clinic to perform surgery on their head, I’m quite perplexed by your blasè attitude here to be honest. 

[FLEngineer]

2 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

You have no idea if verteporfin will achieve what you hope it will achieve, and you’re putting verteporfin in the hands of a clinic that haven’t been participating in or using the formula previously, which is a pretty big variable when it comes to administering V and getting the optimal possible outcome from it. 
 

For someone who doesn’t have a good track record in selecting a reputable clinic to perform surgery on their head, I’m quite perplexed by your blasè attitude here to be honest. 

Well they are a hospital of trained medical professionals, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to presume they can follow instructions on a bottle.  The representative I spoke with said they've done it many times as well with other patients, who I will also attempt to contact in the next few days if they send me their emails/phone numbers.  Thank you for your concerns, but as I've stated I personally 10 people that went here and had great results so I think this is perfect for me.

[Fox243]

12 minutes ago, FLEngineer said:

Well they are a hospital of trained medical professionals, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to presume they can follow instructions on a bottle.  The representative I spoke with said they've done it many times as well with other patients, who I will also attempt to contact in the next few days if they send me their emails/phone numbers.  Thank you for your concerns, but as I've stated I personally 10 people that went here and had great results so I think this is perfect for me.

Personally, I don't think it's fair to generalize Turkish hair clinics. If you've seen the results and you know the doctor who is going to perform on you, I think it is totally fine to go to a Turkish clinic rather than some of the clinics that are advertised here, some of which charge a lot more for not much better quality. I think it could be cool to try out verteporfin or VS-6063. I think VS-6062 had better results but there's ofc a lot less data, so it is riskier. Any reason VS-6063 over vs-6062? Afaik, i don't think there's any evidence for VS-6063 while there is for VS-6062.

[FLEngineer]

2 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

Personally, I don't think it's fair to generalize Turkish hair clinics. If you've seen the results and you know the doctor who is going to perform on you, I think it is totally fine to go to a Turkish clinic rather than some of the clinics that are advertised here, some of which charge a lot more for not much better quality. I think it could be cool to try out verteporfin or VS-6063. I think VS-6062 had better results but there's ofc a lot less data, so it is riskier. Any reason VS-6063 over vs-6062? Afaik, i don't think there's any evidence for VS-6063 while there is for VS-6062.

Ah!  Thank you, I had the studies I read backwards.  I did mean VS-6062, the study done with the 6062 infused hydrogels in particular was very interesting.  6063 is the oral version, and while it could presumably be made into the same DMSO topical solution as 6062, 6062 is proven to be effective for wound healing in topical form.

[Berba11]

56 minutes ago, FLEngineer said:

I personally 10 people that went here and had great results so I think this is perfect for me.

I know, but you’ll forgive my scepticism. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people wax lyrical over a result, and then when I’ve looked at the result myself I can see several common issues with it. 
 

I assume you thought the results you were seeing from the clinic that did you dirty the first time around were good, too. I’d hate for you to make the same error twice, and if you do roll the dice here I hope it works well for you. 
 

With vert, personally I’d wait a little longer and use a surgeon that has been working with it and for whom there will be a more robust follow up and measurement protocol. Obviously there aren’t many options right now, but the landscape will surely have changed in that regard 12-18 months from now. 

[FLEngineer]

5 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

I know, but you’ll forgive my scepticism. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people wax lyrical over a result, and then when I’ve looked at the result myself I can see several common issues with it. 
 

I assume you thought the results you were seeing from the clinic that did you dirty the first time around were good, too. I’d hate for you to make the same error twice, and if you do roll the dice here I hope it works well for you. 
 

With vert, personally I’d wait a little longer and use a surgeon that has been working with it and for whom there will be a more robust follow up and measurement protocol. Obviously there aren’t many options right now, but the landscape will surely have changed in that regard 12-18 months from now. 

I appreciate the thoughtfulness and opinion, I really do.  I have not fully decided on this.  You are right, in another 12-18 months it will probably be an entirely different landscape but for now I am leaning more towards being a human rat experiment lol.

[Al - Moderator]

Well if you do this I do hope you post your experience and progress on this forum. Of course I hope it turns out great and I would love to see more verteporfin results, but I also have the same concerns as the others. 

[mr_peanutbutter]

maybe you can hook up the doctor who is doing with @DrTBarghouthi

Edited May 9 by mr_peanutbutter

[Melvin- Admin]

Quite possibly the worst idea Ive come across. You’re risking your head at a hair mill for an experimental drug, while promising, isn’t proven yet.

Verteporfin doesn’t guarantee the success of a hair transplant. Hair regeneration has absolutely ZERO bearing on the actual outcome of the procedure. 

You could go to a hair mill for cheap, get 8,000 grafts and only have 2,000 grow, and the grafts that grow could be misangled and multiples. The donor regeneration would mean nothing. 

I think we’re getting way too carried away making claims that Verteporfin will be some sort of fail-proof drug. It is not and will not be fail-proof. If, and I mean IF it works it will be a great tool for the top surgeons to use, as they’re already achieving excellent results, so regenerating donor hair will make it even better.

But Verteporfin will not change the industry in terms of top tier surgeons. The top tier become even more desirable, and the people who go to hair mills now, will continue to go to hair mills and get botched, none of that will change. There will still be botched patients and plenty of repairs. The only thing that could possibly change is at least their donors won’t be completely exhausted. 

Do not put yourself in a position for requiring a repair next year. The hair mill will probably do anything to get you in the chair, afterwards they’ll discard you like all other hair mills. Most of the time they’re not even doctors, just technicians and businessmen. Even if they used Verteporfin they probably wouldn’t use the right protocol, or buy some cheap knock off from an online pharmacy. This idea is bad all around, please reconsider.

[Nikoni]

why don't you go to @DrTBarghouthi, he is reputable surgeon and has experience with verteporfin.

[FLEngineer]

1 minute ago, Nikoni said:

why don't you go to @DrTBarghouthi, he is reputable surgeon and has experience with verteporfin.

Fair point, I was under the impression it would be out if my budget but I should definitely ask him directly. 

[Berba11]

16 hours ago, FLEngineer said:

The representative I spoke with said they've done it many times as well with other patients

But the way, I forgot to query this… Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying that the rep from this hair mill told you they’ve administered Verteporfin many times for their other HT patients? Because that’s obviously not true at all if he said that. 

[FLEngineer]

1 minute ago, Berba11 said:

But the way, I forgot to query this… Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying that the rep from this hair mill told you they’ve administered Verteporfin many times for their other HT patients? Because that’s obviously not true at all if he said that. 

The rep said they had other patients request it, and when I sent a picture of the name brand Visudyne drug, he confirmed that's what they used.  I'm hoping to ask if they can give me the patients contact information to verify today since I was very surprised by this as well.  It's a hospital, so they do have access to every drug I suppose.

[Berba11]

6 minutes ago, FLEngineer said:

The rep said they had other patients request it, and when I sent a picture of the name brand Visudyne drug, he confirmed that's what they used.  I'm hoping to ask if they can give me the patients contact information to verify today since I was very surprised by this as well.  It's a hospital, so they do have access to every drug I suppose.

This sounds highly unlikely. The number of HT patients who even know what Verteporfin is is minuscule - largely confined to here, Reddit and probably a few YT channels. 
 

Then when you think about how many from that tiny pool would be choosing this particular clinic - who are fairly obscure - the chances of multiple patients passing through and asking about or having vert used on them is beyond tiny. We’d surely have heard about this from patients themselves. And unless the clinic are very actively looking at vert themselves (and there’s absolutely no indication they are), then I’m not sure what basis they’d have for even agreeing to the request. 
 

None of it adds up. 

[FLEngineer]

3 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

This sounds highly unlikely. The number of HT patients who even know what Verteporfin is is minuscule - largely confined to here, Reddit and probably a few YT channels. 
 

Then when you think about how many from that tiny pool would be choosing this particular clinic - who are fairly obscure - the chances of multiple patients passing through and asking about or having vert used on them is beyond tiny. We’d surely have heard about this from patients themselves. And unless the clinic are very actively looking at vert themselves (and there’s absolutely no indication they are), then I’m not sure what basis they’d have for even agreeing to the request. 
 

None of it adds up. 

Gonna have to disagree on the obscurity aspect, anyone who goes to YouTube or Google and looks up hair transplants will be hit with videos and forums about verteporfin.

And again, that's why I said I'm going to ask for patient contact info so I can verify with them too.  It's really not so crazy that a clinic is willing to meet a customers request.

[Berba11]

11 minutes ago, FLEngineer said:

Gonna have to disagree on the obscurity aspect, anyone who goes to YouTube or Google and looks up hair transplants will be hit with videos and forums about verteporfin.

And again, that's why I said I'm going to ask for patient contact info so I can verify with them too.  It's really not so crazy that a clinic is willing to meet a customers request.

Firstly, I said *the clinic* was relatively obscure. It’s not even remotely one of the most popular or well know clinics in Turkey, let alone across the online HT community that generally have a higher standard and knowledge of the hair restoration marketplace. 
 

Secondly, it’s objectively not true that anyone looks up HT’s will come across Verteporfin. What exactly would you have to Google to stumble across it? I’ve just done multiple generic search term’s around HT’s into Google & YT and I’ve no come across anything related to Verteporfin. Bear in mind the algorithms are *more likely* to give me niche results given my use of this forum and HT related content I watch on YT. For the average prospective patient, they will get the most generic search results possible. 
 

Now add all of that together and what you don’t equal is a fairly obscure hair mill in Turkey secretly having multiple patients requesting and getting Verteporfin treatment (itself completely novel at this stage). 
 

Like I said, it doesn’t add up. I’ll hold my hands up if there’s evidence to the contrary of course, but I think you’ll hit a lot of dead ends trying to speak to all these alleged Verteporfin patients.

[Melvin- Admin]

End of the day, you will do what you will. But I highly doubt a hair mill is scientific enough to know the proper protocol, or savvy enough to have the pharma grade visudyne. I know good doctors that have a hard time buying it. 

I think they’re using it as a hook, like claiming stem cell FUE or other catchy sales lines. Risking your head on an unproven treatment in a hair mill is an awful idea.  If you can’t afford a good surgeon, don’t get surgery. Doing nothing is a better option. 

 

[takuma]

i think Melvin's right...that doesn't mean u shouldn't get verteporfin injected into your donor...you definitely should...but u should go to a reputable surgeon to have it done so you don't end up regretting it if u have a bad overall result.