Longevity of hair follicles after HT.

[jjalay]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061642/

I dont necessarily agrre with this conclusion. I think it has more to do with the longevity of the hair follicles of the donor area.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

[duchaine]

If It was a matter of longevity of the hair follicles of the donor area, after 4 years you should fine the same density reduction in donor area.
If not (and I suppose the researchers didn't find a density reduction in donor) it makes sense that is something related to recipient area.
By the other, I remember an interview with @Melvin- Admin. I don't remember who was the doctor but he suggested that hair thinning/density reduction can be related to a "partial" damage of hair grafts. Demaged hair grafts can live for some years but after a while they die.

Edited November 28, 2023 by duchaine

[duchaine]

In any case, if a transplant is not forever...take ASAP, when you are young and you still need hair.

If I could choose at what age I can get a Porsche for only five years,  I choose my 30. What should I do with a Porsche in my 60?!?

[jjalay]

22 minutes ago, duchaine said:

In any case, if a transplant is not forever...take ASAP, when you are young and you still need hair.

If I could choose at what age I can get a Porsche for only five years,  I choose my 30. What should I do with a Porsche in my 60?!?

I think topical finasteride would be a good solution as preventative measure to prevent transplanted hair thinning out.

[manutd4545]

My HT thinned from first 2 transplants despite being on finasteride.

[duchaine]

36 minutes ago, jjalay said:

I think topical finasteride would be a good solution as preventative measure to prevent transplanted hair thinning out.

I suppose duta/fina/oral/topical just help to slow down the hair tinning.

A great Brazilian surgeon once dais that he doesn't lower HL because the hair placed in the temples tend to die after some years.
He confirms your original statement.

[duchaine]

2 hours ago, manutd4545 said:

My HT thinned from first 2 transplants despite being on finasteride.

How long after HT did you start to notice thinning?

[duchaine]

21 hours ago, jjalay said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061642/

I dont necessarily agrre with this conclusion. I think it has more to do with the longevity of the hair follicles of the donor area.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

When I replied before, I didn't read the study but trusted you.
The longevity of the HF of donor area is the same theory suggested by the authors

"It has been found that the miniaturization does affect the occipital donor hair, and this may be the cause of reduction in the density of the transplanted hairs. "

[mcr7777]

22 hours ago, jjalay said:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8061642/

I dont necessarily agrre with this conclusion. I think it has more to do with the longevity of the hair follicles of the donor area.

What are your thoughts on this matter?

This is a very interesting study - I wonder if inflammation could be one of the causes. It's known that many with AGA have co-current inflammation to varying degrees and treating the inflammation is not well understood.  I was diagnosed with LPP 1 year after HT....not sure it that is what I have or something else. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by mcr7777

[duchaine]

1 hour ago, mcr7777 said:

This is a very interesting study - I wonder if inflammation could be one of the causes. It's known that many with AGA have co-current inflammation to varying degrees and treating the inflammation is not well understood.  I was diagnosed with LPP 1 year after HT....not sure it that is what I have or something else. 

It is not so easy: pro-inflammatory prostaglandins can increase (d2) or reduce (E2) hair loss.
DHT is supposed to be related to some pro-inflammatory PG related to hair loss.
But DHT (and consequently pro inflammatory factors) are just some pieces of the puzzle.

This is vey intriguing: "The logical therapeutic approach for AGA treatment addressing the underlying pathology should be complete reversal of follicle miniaturization and de-pigmentation either by suppression of testosterone to DHT conversion, or by blockage of ARs. However, drug treatment involving increasing blood flow (Minoxidil) or decreasing androgen formation (Finasteride) did not effectively serve these purposes. Recently, it was found that the scalp of male AGA patients retain normal number of HF stem cells but the progression from stem cells to progenitors cells is severely blocked ¹. This stem cell inactivation coincides with the known phenomenon of progressive follicle miniaturization during hair cycling".

 

 

[BaldDude]

This is the most disturbing part of the study:

"Usage of minoxidil and finasteride and their influence in the longevity of the hair follicles in our study were not statistically significant."

[Gatsby]

Too many unknown variables associated in this study.

[manutd4545]

7 hours ago, duchaine said:

How long after HT did you start to notice thinning?

It was very slow, I would say about 6-7 years later.

[baddecisions]

If I am not mistaken, I once read from a Couto's patient (so, this is what patient wrote, not direct words from dr.) that doctor mentioned him that he stopped or was considering stop using 0.7mm diameter punches to punch out grafts from donor, because it might partially damage follicles and then make the long term survival rate lower.

If I manage to find the thread I will copy the post.

[BackFromTheBrink]

55 minutes ago, baddecisions said:

If I am not mistaken, I once read from a Couto's patient (so, this is what patient wrote, not direct words from dr.) that doctor mentioned him that he stopped or was considering stop using 0.7mm diameter punches to punch out grafts from donor, because it might partially damage follicles and then make the long term survival rate lower.

If I manage to find the thread I will copy the post.

Pretty sure Zarev would be out of business by now if that were the case!

[MC117]

8 hours ago, BackFromTheBrink said:

Pretty sure Zarev would be out of business by now if that were the case!

Yeah, they are obviously not using the same tool/technology. Dr Zarev will patent it soon anyway.

[hairsave2021]

Maybe it depends who does the surgery.
I believe that most of the recommended doctors here do work that lasts (even if the transplant gets a bit thinner over time). 
However if the transplant is not done by a world class clinic, perhaps even if the initial result is good after time because of damage to the grafts it becomes bad.
But that is just a guess. 

[manutd4545]

1 hour ago, hairsave2021 said:

Maybe it depends who does the surgery.
I believe that most of the recommended doctors here do work that lasts (even if the transplant gets a bit thinner over time). 
However if the transplant is not done by a world class clinic, perhaps even if the initial result is good after time because of damage to the grafts it becomes bad.
But that is just a guess. 

Based on my personal experience of going to a world class surgeon I do not agree as I did go to a world class surgeon.  I think there are many variables that simply cannot be controlled. For example is there a chance that over time the transplanted hairs start to take on characteristics of their new environment? Hairs are DHT resistant but not DHT fool proof. I could buy a water resistant coat and will work to begin with but will it last in continuous downpours?  Could apply this theory to hair follicles.

Edited December 1, 2023 by manutd4545

[Jlee]

On 11/28/2023 at 9:17 PM, manutd4545 said:

My HT thinned from first 2 transplants despite being on finasteride.

I’m hearing this pretty regularly guys got ht and took meds but still loosing a lot hair, 

[manutd4545]

I have reversed alot of this now though since taking oral minoxidil