What are the benefits of high cost US/Canadian vs lower cost Thailand, Turkey (All reccommended)

[Cooper48]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for providing such a wealth of information.  I currently live in Seattle and have been starting my research process.  I have reviewed dozens of drs and have received plans from Hassan and Wong and Gabel.  All seem very reputable and close to me.  I am a good candidate.  I have been losing my hair very gradually over the past 20 years (48 now).  I'm probably at NW 3/4 and probably need about 3000 transplants.  While money is not the most important factor, who doesn't like to spend their money wisely?  I have been researching reputable drs in other countries and I can't seem to tell the difference in what I am paying for.  At this point, I am also interested in Dr. Kongkiat Laorwong.  His information presented, before and after pics, and reputation seem like he would do just as good a job for way less money.  The costs seem to be half even after considering travel, and the Dr seems to be much more involved in the whole process.  I also like to travel and would be excited to see a new country.  

So, does anyone have any specific reasons for paying the extra for drs like HW or Gabel?

Thanks!

 

[Melvin- Admin]

The biggest benefit is convenience. Not having to travel, not paying for flights, hotels. You also avoid going through TSA or the airport after having a hair transplant. Some people think its a big deal others don’t. It depends on the person. I traveled for my last HT. The first three were local. It was a lot nicer to drive and conceal my HT rather than being in public. You have to weigh the pros and cons for yourself. 
 

Your financial situation will dictate your decision, if you have the finances and the convenience factor is important, then you probably wanna stay close. If money plays a big factor, then traveling will be the better option.

[HappyMan2021]

Convenience is the only factor. High priced US clinics can absolutely be just as shady and disreputable as an international hairmill. 

Also don't think that just because you get operated on in the US, that gives you some sort of legal insurance/liability protection if you get botched or something. You will be SOL just the same as if you were botched internationally. 

[hairman22]

I think H&W are the only good surgeons for a high norwood near the US.

It is terrible place to get a hair transplant as a high NW.

Konior is very good but i dont see many high Norwood cases

[GoliGoliGoli]

8 minutes ago, hairman22 said:

I think H&W are the only good surgeons for a high norwood near the US.

It is terrible place to get a hair transplant as a high NW.

Konior is very good but i dont see many high Norwood cases

I don't mean to change the subject, but are the Dr's who are considered "high NW masters" who get great results in 1 or 2 sessions actually just going far outside the safe donor zone in order to get grafts without making the donor look patchy? 

Like ya I hear arguments that "well they just angle the grafts better" or "their survivability rate is just better" but I don't know... That doesn't seem to pass the smell test. 

[HairEnthusiast101]

Just now, GoliGoliGoli said:

I don't mean to change the subject, but are the Dr's who are considered "high NW masters" who get great results in 1 or 2 sessions actually just going far outside the safe donor zone in order to get grafts without making the donor look patchy? 

Like ya I hear arguments that "well they just angle the grafts better" or "their survivability rate is just better" but I don't know... That doesn't seem to pass the smell test. 

The safe zone is of course different for everybody but some of these high Norwood fue docs I’d like to see more data 10+ years later before calling them the best. What they do is very impressive but if it only looks good for 5 years and then starts to thin than why would anyone want that?

[hairman22]

5 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I don't mean to change the subject, but are the Dr's who are considered "high NW masters" who get great results in 1 or 2 sessions actually just going far outside the safe donor zone in order to get grafts without making the donor look patchy? 

Like ya I hear arguments that "well they just angle the grafts better" or "their survivability rate is just better" but I don't know... That doesn't seem to pass the smell test. 

perhaps but everyone's donor is different

Like look at this case. He got 12k grafts. I dont really see many grafts outside the safe zone there at all 12,138 Grafts (hairtransplantation.bg)

The man is in 50s

Even the true safe zone may well have some thinning later in life at 50+ or 60+ . We cant really predict the future but with Nw7 quite rare i think taking grafts in the NW6 donor should be ok. It is a risk but a calculated one.

[GoliGoliGoli]

36 minutes ago, hairman22 said:

Like look at this case. He got 12k grafts. I dont really see many grafts outside the safe zone there at all 12,138 Grafts (hairtransplantation.bg)

How can you tell? There are no pictures of his donor immediately post-op that show where grafts were taken from...

Edited July 12, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli

[hairman22]

2 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

How can you tell? There are no pictures of his donor immediately post-op that show where grafts were taken from...

There are.One is 247/365 photo you can even zoom in.

[HairEnthusiast101]

49 minutes ago, hairman22 said:

perhaps but everyone's donor is different

Like look at this case. He got 12k grafts. I dont really see many grafts outside the safe zone there at all 12,138 Grafts (hairtransplantation.bg)

The man is in 50s

Even the true safe zone may well have some thinning later in life at 50+ or 60+ . We cant really predict the future but with Nw7 quite rare i think taking grafts in the NW6 donor should be ok. It is a risk but a calculated one.

That’s a great case. Patient was as nw7 as it gets and Dr Zarev managed to give him a good set of hair. I’ve heard Dr Zarev uses a .5mm punch which seems crazy considering you always here the lower the punch the more transection but somehow he makes it work so I have no clue 

[GoliGoliGoli]

17 minutes ago, hairman22 said:

There are.One is 247/365 photo you can even zoom in.

Hm true although it's a bit hard to see the extractions (Perhaps due to the small punch size mentioned by poster above). And you're right I don't see anything blatantly outside of the safe zone which you often see with other high NW cases. Maybe extractions a bit far passed the right ear in pic 247 - but nothing egregious at all. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli

[hairman22]

1 minute ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Hm true although it's a bit hard to see the extractions (Perhaps due to the small punch size mentioned by poster above). And you're right I don't see anything blatantly outside of the safe zone which you often see with other high NW cases. Maybe extractions a bit far passed the right ear in pic 247 - but nothing egregious at all. 

I saw the case closely when at Zarev's clinic. Guy is in his 50s store manager of a big company.

He had another  case where he took 18k scalp grafts from a N7 & another NW7 in his 60s he took 12k. He has a huge advantage with his technique for extraction.

Only in exceptional circustances he will go outside the safe zone. 

For instance he said in my case i have 9k left. My humps are quite thick he said he only use those if needed & if i was at least in my 60s. 

But he examines all your scalp to try & determine your possible final pattern with his software for hair thickess,calibre hair in telogen etc.

We cant gurantee the results will be as good in 20-30 years time.

But he has little scarring with his technique & has a long term plan in place for each patient.

[GoliGoliGoli]

3 minutes ago, hairman22 said:

I saw the case closely when at Zarev's clinic. Guy is in his 50s store manager of a big company.

He had another  case where he took 18k scalp grafts from a N7 & another NW7 in his 60s he took 12k. He has a huge advantage with his technique for extraction.

Only in exceptional circustances he will go outside the safe zone. 

For instance he said in my case i have 9k left. My humps are quite thick he said he only use those if needed & if i was at least in my 60s. 

But he examines all your scalp to try & determine your possible final pattern with his software for hair thickess,calibre hair in telogen etc.

We cant gurantee the results will be as good in 20-30 years time.

But he has little scarring with his technique & has a long term plan in place for each patient.

The guys donor has definitely been thinned out from all those extractions, but it doesn't look unnatural or bad due to being "evenly over-extracted". I wonder how a thinned out donor like that would look on a younger guy though. 

[A_4_Archan]

@Cooper48 Demography and money has no relation with art ,skill and ethics...you will find bad doctors as well as good doctors in every corner of the world and at every price point...there are doctors who are charging more than 6-7 USD per grafts and providing poor results than the doctors who are doing it at 2 usd per graft...and there are doctors who are charging high but they are providing value as well...so don't go by all this things...just look at results of all the doctors and than shortlist 3-4 doctors from all of them and thn consult them and talk to them and see with whom you are more comfortable plus dig deep into all the forums and hairloss groups and check out real patient reviews of those shortlisted ones and talk to their patients....take your time and than make your decision based on your findings...i had a surgery 2 months back with dr kongkiat laorwong ..so if you have any questions regarding him thn feel free to DM me....best of luck..

[Cooper48]

Thanks for all the replies.  I'm glad to know that I am not missing something here.  I agree that the there appears to be quality differences at every price point.  I was really impressed with the before/after with dr kongkiat laorwong and the description of the services.  He seems like his work is as good as any of the other drs doing good work.  

 

A_4_Archan - The details of your experience have been great.  Thanks for the DM offer.  I'll reach out once I have more info from dr laorwong.

 

Is NW 3/4 with 3k grafts considered a mega session? 

[baldfighter]

For me personally, I just feel that the medical practices are better regulated here in the US/Can, I don’t even know what that means, just a feeling. But I feel safer here and I paid more for the peace of mind.

Edited July 12, 2023 by baldfighter

[Cooper48]

Thanks baldfighter.  That is a valid feeling that I lean toward as well.  However, the research and individual experiences helps me overcome some of that.  Many of the overseas ones really seem to take good care of their patients.  But research is the most important part because I think there can be worse outcomes in places that are as highly regulated.

[Bucky O Hair]

Doing research is good, but remember, people will have their biases.  So you'll have to take that into consideration.

People will always recommend the places they went to, but their reasons for choosing it will be different than yours.  Also, this forum is just as much a "support group" as it is a "research hub", so there will be people posting their best postop photos in the best possible lighting to get positive comments (and probably avoid posting anything negative, like a depleted donor from extracting massive amounts of grafts in one session).  

 

[Al - Moderator]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:32 PM, GoliGoliGoli said:

The guys donor has definitely been thinned out from all those extractions, but it doesn't look unnatural or bad due to being "evenly over-extracted". I wonder how a thinned out donor like that would look on a younger guy though. 

 

Right. His hair is mostly gray on the sides and back too. If he had dark hair it would look even thinner. I can tell you from personal experience that having thin see-through hair all over the back and sides looks like crap outside in the sun. If I try to grow the hair longer it looks even worse.

 

Edited July 13, 2023 by BeHappy

[GoliGoliGoli]

25 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

 

Right. His hair is mostly gray on the sides and back too. If he had dark hair it would look even thinner. I can tell you from personal experience that having thin see-through hair all over the back and sides looks like crap outside in the sun. If I try to grow the hair longer it looks even worse.

 

When you say personal experience, are you speaking of yourself or others you have seen in person? If yourself, how many grafts have you had extracted and how many surgeries? 

[Cooper48]

@A_4_Archan - I cant DM so just going to ask about your tourism here.  I am thinking about staying a while and visiting a few places, as well as the city.  My wife is thinking of coming along.  It sounds like you were able to get out a lot.  Just curious what the limitation were with the procedure?  With the bandana on were you able to go out during the day when it is hot?  

Thanks!