COSMERNA

[Follicle1984]

Hi all,

I just wondered if anyone had any updates about when the SAMiRNA COSMERNA hair product may be commercially available in Europe and the UK?

Thanks

[FUEtile]

I keep hearing about this

[arthurSam]

Perhaps about 200EUR but is it for one month or 3 months ? ...

 

source : https://www.hkn24.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=332402

 

[Health Korea News / Lee Ji-hye]

It was expected that Bioneer would secure a new source of cash generation through short-interference ribonucleic acid (siRNA)-based hair loss mitigating functional cosmetics 'CosmeRNA'. 

On the 4th, Kiwoom Securities said about Bioneer, “We plan to focus on new growth engines through Cosmerna this year and discover new sources of cash generation.” It will become visible,” he predicted. We did not present an investment recommendation or target price.

Cosmerna is a siRNA-based androgenetic hair loss mitigating functional cosmetic that inhibits the production of androgen receptors. In the fourth quarter of last year, product registration was completed with the European Cosmetics Certification Portal (CPNP) and British Cosmetics Certification Portal (SCPN), and sales became possible. Bioneer plans to start selling its products in earnest from the first half of this year.

Hair loss progresses when excessively secreted testosterone (male hormone) meets 5α-reductase to become dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and attacks dermal papilla cells. Currently, hair loss treatment drugs suppress DHT production, but Bioneer's cosmer or cosmetics mechanism works by interfering with siRNA to prevent DHT from attaching to androgen receptor (mRNA), which is the junction of dermal papilla cells.

Cosmerna uses a method that makes hair healthy by normalizing androgen receptors without hormonal fluctuations. Because of this, the side effects (erectile dysfunction, sexual dysfunction, edema, headache rash) of Propecia, a hair loss treatment drug, do not occur. 

Kim Hak-joon, a researcher at Kiwoom Securities, explained, "Assuming the unit price of Cosmerna is 300,000 won (unconfirmed) per unit, the current prepared quantity is about 10,000 units. 

Currently, it has 5 CAPAs, capable of producing 400,000 to 600,000 units per year. When converted into product prices, annual sales of 120 to 180 billion won are possible. It is expected to be sold in Europe in April through the opening of its own mall and Amazon Europe.

Researcher Kim said, “If demand is confirmed to be high after initial sales, CAPA expansion is expected to be considered. Under the premise that facilities can be expanded by about 10 times within the factory site, there is capacity to hold a CAPA of up to 1.8 trillion won in the future,” he said. It is possible to flexibly increase facilities according to the increase in 

“Bioneer lowered the cost of equipment investment to 1/10 through the development of its own large-capacity synthesizer last year,” he said. will,” he predicted.

Researcher Kim said, "The company's platform technology, 'SAMiRNA', has also commercialized its production protocol," and judged that "the possibility of new drug development through SAMiRNA is also expected." 

Meanwhile, as of 1:43 pm on the 4th, Bioneer is trading at 46,300 won, up 11.56% (4300 won) from the previous day (41,500 won). 

출처 : 헬스코리아뉴스(http://www.hkn24.com)

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by arthurSam

[Follicle1984]

I had heard (from several hairloss youtubers), that it should be available at the end of March 2023 over here...but there website just says coming soon. I've emailed them afew times but no response. 

[arthurSam]

Yes there are many people who write to them...

[Melvin- Admin]

Dr. Vaño whose basically Europes leading hair loss doctor spoke about it in our interview yesterday. He also talked about HMI-150 Minute 18:50

 

[arthurSam]

Thanks 🙂

[Follicle1984]

26 minutes ago, arthurSam said:

Perhaps about 200EUR but is it for one month or 3 months ? ...

 

source : https://www.hkn24.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=332402

 

[Health Korea News / Lee Ji-hye]

It was expected that Bioneer would secure a new source of cash generation through short-interference ribonucleic acid (siRNA)-based hair loss mitigating functional cosmetics 'CosmeRNA'. 

On the 4th, Kiwoom Securities said about Bioneer, “We plan to focus on new growth engines through Cosmerna this year and discover new sources of cash generation.” It will become visible,” he predicted. We did not present an investment recommendation or target price.

Cosmerna is a siRNA-based androgenetic hair loss mitigating functional cosmetic that inhibits the production of androgen receptors. In the fourth quarter of last year, product registration was completed with the European Cosmetics Certification Portal (CPNP) and British Cosmetics Certification Portal (SCPN), and sales became possible. Bioneer plans to start selling its products in earnest from the first half of this year.

Hair loss progresses when excessively secreted testosterone (male hormone) meets 5α-reductase to become dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and attacks dermal papilla cells. Currently, hair loss treatment drugs suppress DHT production, but Bioneer's cosmer or cosmetics mechanism works by interfering with siRNA to prevent DHT from attaching to androgen receptor (mRNA), which is the junction of dermal papilla cells.

Cosmerna uses a method that makes hair healthy by normalizing androgen receptors without hormonal fluctuations. Because of this, the side effects (erectile dysfunction, sexual dysfunction, edema, headache rash) of Propecia, a hair loss treatment drug, do not occur. 

Kim Hak-joon, a researcher at Kiwoom Securities, explained, "Assuming the unit price of Cosmerna is 300,000 won (unconfirmed) per unit, the current prepared quantity is about 10,000 units. 

Currently, it has 5 CAPAs, capable of producing 400,000 to 600,000 units per year. When converted into product prices, annual sales of 120 to 180 billion won are possible. It is expected to be sold in Europe in April through the opening of its own mall and Amazon Europe.

Researcher Kim said, “If demand is confirmed to be high after initial sales, CAPA expansion is expected to be considered. Under the premise that facilities can be expanded by about 10 times within the factory site, there is capacity to hold a CAPA of up to 1.8 trillion won in the future,” he said. It is possible to flexibly increase facilities according to the increase in 

“Bioneer lowered the cost of equipment investment to 1/10 through the development of its own large-capacity synthesizer last year,” he said. will,” he predicted.

Researcher Kim said, "The company's platform technology, 'SAMiRNA', has also commercialized its production protocol," and judged that "the possibility of new drug development through SAMiRNA is also expected." 

Meanwhile, as of 1:43 pm on the 4th, Bioneer is trading at 46,300 won, up 11.56% (4300 won) from the previous day (41,500 won). 

출처 : 헬스코리아뉴스(http://www.hkn24.com)

 

Thanks

Well its April now do I shall be keeping my eyes very much open for it. It would very great if it was available through amazon. That would be a dream. It feels like we get left behind a bit in the UK compared to the US. Been waiting for Xyon to release there stuff over here but they have not sorted that yet. 

I hope COSMERNA proves to have some worth.

Edited April 4, 2023 by Follicle1984

[Follicle1984]

10 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Dr. Vaño whose basically Europes leading hair loss doctor spoke about it in our interview yesterday. He also talked about HMI-150 Minute 18:50

 

Thanks Melvin. Will have a watch of this later.

 

[TorontoMan]

Should be coming within the next 2 months, as I read apparently that's what they told their stakeholders. The price will be based on a multiple month usage given it's dose frequency is likely only once weekly or maybe even bi-weekly, so 200euro might be for 3-4 months in a small vial. 

[Melvin- Admin]

I’m just concerned of it affecting androgen receptors on other parts of the body. Apparently, it stops the protein synthesis, which prevents the creation of androgen receptors. But how is this localized to the scalp?

[Follicle1984]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m just concerned of it affecting androgen receptors on other parts of the body. Apparently, it stops the protein synthesis, which prevents the creation of androgen receptors. But how is this localized to the scalp?

I would imagine it's a product of the vehicle and also the overall metabolic clearance and the half life of the drug. As with anything, if it has a long half life then its liable to build up in the system. I imagine it will go systemic to some degree. It would just be a matter of how much. Losing 1-2% of your androgen receptor systemically would likely go unnoticed. Whereas if it can nuke androgen receptors down to 20 to 50% of normal levels in the scalp, this would be highly efficacious and likely a worthy trade off. Similar principles with pyrilutamide and GT20029. And topical dutasteride for that matter.

I watched segments of the video you posted. Many thanks. I can see you were obviously concerned about the potential for side effects of cosmerna. I can understand that. For me personally...this is where the trial data comes in. I believe trials are less rigorous in Europe for this product as it is classed as a skin care cosmetic rather than a medication/drug. I need to trawl through the studies. Ultimately...its this outcome data with regards to side effects that we need...mechanistic data is only so useful. If no one gets side effects, and its a big enough study, following up for long enough...this would be highly reassuring. Certainly, in my humble opinion, more reassuring than topical dutasteride, given how little we know about the pharmacokinetic profile of this drug currently (as there are scare few high value big studies that im aware of)...but at least with dutasteride, we know what the drug itself would do if it does go systemic. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Follicle1984

[Melvin- Admin]

26 minutes ago, Follicle1984 said:

I would imagine it's a product of the vehicle and also the overall metabolic clearance and the half life of the drug. As with anything, if it has a long half life then its liable to build up in the system. I imagine it will go systemic to some degree. It would just be a matter of how much. Losing 1-2% of your androgen receptor systemically would likely go unnoticed. Whereas if it can nuke androgen receptors down to 20 to 50% of normal levels in the scalp, this would be highly efficacious and likely a worthy trade off. Similar principles with pyrilutamide and GT20029. And topical dutasteride for that matter.

Yes, pyrilutamide has a similar issue. I agree, as with all topicals, the vehicle is key. Something that is slow absorbing would be best. I’m interested to see if this will replace 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. I wonder of combining both a topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitor with CosmeRNA would be even better. Many questions. 
 

I’m gonna reach out to siRNAgen, maybe we can find out a bit more.

 

[Follicle1984]

36 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, pyrilutamide has a similar issue. I agree, as with all topicals, the vehicle is key. Something that is slow absorbing would be best. I’m interested to see if this will replace 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. I wonder of combining both a topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitor with CosmeRNA would be even better. Many questions. 
 

I’m gonna reach out to siRNAgen, maybe we can find out a bit more.

 

That would be amazing. I will certainly be eagerly awaiting any news you can get from them 😀 

I think yes, combining 5ARi and anything that works on the AR (AR antagonist/blocker, an AR degrader, or AR synthesis inhibitor) would likely yield more impressive results than one drug alone. I think this is because its very very difficult to do anything 100%, either A) inhibiting the AR to 0 in the scalp (would likely take such a high scalp concentration that it would likely spill over significantly systemically), or B) reducing DHT to 0. There are I believe, back door pathways in the body so that some DHT is likely still floating about, and there is the theory than other weaker androgens such as testosterone can still play a role, which I think is likely in some men if the concentration of test if high enough. But then if you inhibit DHT in the scalp by 50% and also concurrently reduce AR down to 50% of their normal levels, you may have a scenario where you achieving something quite special. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Follicle1984

[Follicle1984]

For anyone who is interested...the website follicle thought has an updated article today about COSMERNA...reports are that it is to be released next month.

[Melvin- Admin]

55 minutes ago, Follicle1984 said:

For anyone who is interested...the website follicle thought has an updated article today about COSMERNA...reports are that it is to be released next month.

Let’s tag him @FollicleThought

[Follicle1984]

22 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Let’s tag him @FollicleThought

Must admit, after the message in the other cosmerna thread, I though the update was going to be about that (ie it is not going to be released in South Korea). Thankfully not. 

[Follicle1984]

More posts over at tressless stating UK amazon and European sales hoping to start early May !

 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, Follicle1984 said:

More posts over at tressless stating UK amazon and European sales hoping to start early May !

 

This is great news. I hope our UK brothers start journies here and share their reviews. I'm wondering if I can have someone in the UK buy it for me and ship it to me 🤔 

[Follicle1984]

22 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

This is great news. I hope our UK brothers start journies here and share their reviews. I'm wondering if I can have someone in the UK buy it for me and ship it to me 🤔 

Wouldn't that ruin your topical dutasteride experiment?

I personally am still unsure I want to use it within the first 6 months. Not sure I'm willing to be in the first batch of eager testers. The safety factors is not really that clearly established to me.

The study group for 5mg per week had 30 patients of which 8 for various reasons did not finish the 24 week study. Apparently most of these were removed for whatever reason (things that may invalidate the study results like using hair dye). But still we are talking about a study which has only looked at about 22 people. That is exceptionally low powered. If this were a finasteride study would it have picked up those who react badly to that. Unlikely.

Not saying it won't be safe just that I'm not sure. And I could probably wait 6 months and see the anecdotal reports. Although I do fear the nocebo effect will play a role for some and there will be reported sexual side effects because it is a theoretical possibility.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Follicle1984

[Follicle1984]

On 4/4/2023 at 10:17 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

Yes, pyrilutamide has a similar issue. I agree, as with all topicals, the vehicle is key. Something that is slow absorbing would be best. I’m interested to see if this will replace 5-alpha reductase inhibitors. I wonder of combining both a topical 5-alpha reductase inhibitor with CosmeRNA would be even better. Many questions. 
 

I’m gonna reach out to siRNAgen, maybe we can find out a bit more.

 

Hi Melvin.

Did you ever hear back from this company?

I've emailed the cosmerna website multiple times with afew questions but not heard back. I even emailed dermatrest in Europe to see of they had any safety data from their study of cosme, but they advised they were not permitted to release this data.

Would have been great to know if they tested for serum/blood levels of their drug/cosmetic to know what kind of amount went systemic. Kintor did this with pyrilutamide.

It still doesn't sit easy with me that South Korea wouldn't licence this yet we are all jumping on board without question. The studies were so small (22 subjects I beleive). And there were women in that study number too, in which noticing anti androgenic side effects may be more challenging than in a male. As some have said.. if this was finasteride would that number be big enough to pick up side effects if just 22 people enrolled. 

[arthurSam]

Some people seems to get sides with Cosmerna on reddit

[Melvin- Admin]

11 minutes ago, arthurSam said:

Some people seems to get sides with Cosmerna on reddit

Reddit isn’t the best place to judge meds, there’s a lot of nocebo going on there. 

[Follicle1984]

20 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Reddit isn’t the best place to judge meds, there’s a lot of nocebo going on there. 

Exactly. The water is about to get a bit muddy.