when shaved what density can achieve a relatively 'non balding look'?

[Sparky]

"7k is a very very big stretch coming from the scalp alone. Besides, it would be incredibly expensive, especially in combination with BHT(which some clinics charge even extra for)"

 

Isnt that saying that you think I'm lying?

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by Julius:

knowing that had he gone to H&W, he would have a good result and be finished

This is my feeling at the moment, but I still want to buzz to a #2 or #1. I know this is not really possible with strip, so I would need fue into the scar anyway which is no guarantee of achieving this, though I do know of two guys who are able to shave to a #1 now because of it. Now due to such a large amount of loss, the doctors on this forum will probably not do fue for me as I do not have enough grafts available via this method. I would be taking a risk with a doctor who is not recommended here using a technique where there is little documentation of successful on cases over 2500 grafts. I want fue to be the holy grail of hair loss, but I am not seeing the results. I have even though of trying a radical fue ht procedure were I would have a whole area balded by fue and a tattoo placed there but neither Feller or Shapiro's reps even deemed it worthy of a reply. It seems with what I want and the amount of loss I have I am stuck between a rock and a hard place with fut and fue. Any suggestions?

Sorry to hear about your experience Scar5.

I was recently sort of warned off fue by a guy on this very forum who has had 7 fue sessions so far from dr jones, he who cannot be named from Australia, cole and Feller, and has to angle his hair down so it does not look so pluggy, he also said the results always look better in pictures than in person.

 

Julius,

It sounds like you have a realistic understanding of what can be accomplished with both FUE and FUT. You are searching for a favorable compromise.

 

Regarding the use of tatoos or FUEing into the scar, they are both poor ideas.

 

FUE growth in the scar is questionable, but the reality is that the donor thinning around the scar is the real problem.

 

If your hair is coarse and thick, then you can buzz to a #3/4 with a reasonable chance of not seeing the scar, assuming no stretching anywhere. In the case that your hair is coarse/dense, you dont need FUE into the scar.

 

OTH, if your hair is normal or fine, the donor area will start to thin out as hair is removed by either strip or FUE. FUEing into the scar really wont hide it because of the depleted surrounding hair. The only solution is to grow to an inch or longer. The hair length is determined by how much density you have remaining, and how big the scar is. Even if the scar is perfect, if your donor is fine and depleted, it wont be hidden unless hair is grown over 1".

 

Tatoos wont adress the issue either. You may find that Couvre (masking product) will help to hide the scar. I find that this works for me.

 

So I think your options are two-fold.

 

You can go for a high-yield strip surgery, with understanding that you have to style around the strip scar. I buzz the sides over the ear (and under the scar) to give a more stylish look. Dont know why more people dont do this.

 

Other option is a "less is more" look with FUE. You could have a doc plant a receded and somewhat thin hair (maybe 25-30 g/cm2), with the understanding that you are going to go with a buzzed look. If your hair is fine-to-average, a good doc should be able to create a natural hairline. It will be a receded hairline, but no one will notice it as unnatural. (More coarse hair seems to demand higher density to hide individual hair shafts)

 

You could buzz the sides really short, and keep the top at 1/2"-3/4". Both the top and sides would be somewhat seethrough, but there would be a harmony. You can use toppik and other product to bulk up this style and make it look like there is more hair.

 

If I did not have a strip scar, I would be able to do this, but I have to keep the side/back hair too long, so I am not able to achieve balance. However, I would never have been able to afford moving 4-6.5K FUE grafts and if the yield was even less than I got, then the "less is more" look would have just been LESS.

 

So it is a catch 22.

 

I think the solution is to either accept your baldness, or wait another couple years until you realize not being able to buzz is not the end of the world. Then strip will be the better option.

 

The other option (which is a gamble) is to go for a "less is more" FUE look, with the understanding that if it doesnt work, you can just shave and move on. Most of the FUE docs are doing dense hairlines, but there might be someone who understands and specializes in "less is more".

 

I hope this helps. I know its a big issue and a big decision. A high-yield strip clinic is still the gold standard for high NW guys.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Heard another goldie the other day from a patient who had been told "Spex" has never received a HT at all and all he does is showcase a full natural head of hair .

 

Spex,

 

I think you should take that as a high compliment as should Dr. Feller. Clearly this proves that today's state of the art hair transplants are so natural that even the harshest critics can't detect them :-).

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

"Think about the reasons why composite clinics have a vested interest in keeping strip as the prime generator of income and FUE for boutique purposes or specilaist purposes."

 

Scar5,

 

The day FUE can produce the same kind of consistent "wow" results FUT can, I'm sure more physicians will begin experimenting with it. Unfortunately, that day has not come yet.

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel that FUE is a valuable tool and an option for a select group of patients. But in my opinion, it will never replace FUT as the number one sought after hair transplant procedure in the world, simply because too many men with advanced balding require FUT to acquire any kind of real coverage and density.

 

Sparky's 7000 FUE patient example is the exception rather than a rule. The average safe donor area via FUE is closer to between 3000 and 5000 while FUT on average is typically between 6000 and 8000.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Julius]

From all the research I have done on density the 'less is more' thing seems like pure fiction, less really is less. The Stephan guy Sparky mentioned who has had fue and bht even had a average density of 60 grafts percm2 if I remember rightly. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I know I look better buzzed and I much prefer wearing my hair this way. Unfortunately my acceptance of baldness will probably never be complete and will always niggle me, although I must say my insecurity has diminished from when it first started in my early twenties.

 

Then from what you're saying Emperor the only two choices I have are:

 

1)Strip then buzz and f the scar

2)Strip and grow it long which I hate

 

In regards to see thoroughness and hts they should not look like someone is thinning, just naturally thin hair with no mpb. Otherwise buzzed hts would be the only hts worth having.

It is a bit disheartening but I appreciate the frankness.

 

Sorry Spex I must have got you mixed up with someone else. I never intended to discredit the Feller group or yourself. I often praise Dr Feller's work and even recommend Feller to other patients. I am even considering having a ht with him. But just out of curiosity if you needed extra work would Dr Feller go fue? And how many fue grafts would you have left via it? What is the average number of fue grafts Dr Feller is willing to extract? Also what is the maximum number of fue grafts Feller has transplanted?

 

Again apologies for any offence taken

[Sparky]

Yes 7000 fue from the head isnt going to be something that you see everyday, unless you have amazing donor, most people couldnt acheive this.

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by Julius:

From all the research I have done on density the 'less is more' thing seems like pure fiction, less really is less. The Stephan guy Sparky mentioned who has had fue and bht even had a average density of 60 grafts percm2 if I remember rightly. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I know I look better buzzed and I much prefer wearing my hair this way. Unfortunately my acceptance of baldness will probably never be complete and will always niggle me, although I must say my insecurity has diminished from when it first started in my early twenties.

 

Then from what you're saying Emperor the only two choices I have are:

 

1)Strip then buzz and f the scar

2)Strip and grow it long which I hate

 

In regards to see thoroughness and hts they should not look like someone is thinning, just naturally thin hair with no mpb. Otherwise buzzed hts would be the only hts worth having.

It is a bit disheartening but I appreciate the frankness.

 

Sorry Spex I must have got you mixed up with someone else. I never intended to discredit the Feller group or yourself. I often praise Dr Feller's work and even recommend Feller to other patients. I am even considering having a ht with him. But just out of curiosity if you needed extra work would Dr Feller go fue? And how many fue grafts would you have left via it? What is the average number of fue grafts Dr Feller is willing to extract? Also what is the maximum number of fue grafts Feller has transplanted?

 

Again apologies for any offence taken

 

Julius,

 

By the "less is more" look I am talking about planting the top at (say) 1/3rd density via FUE. You buzz the sides really short and keep the top at 3/4" (and can spike with some gel or toppik.)

 

You see this look on alot of guys in their 40s. It looks like a buzz cut, but there is no hiding the fact that there is some MPB going on.

 

Maybe when you lose more hair and get older you will realize there is a difference between being bald and having thin hair. Having thin hair that still defines a hairline is 1000% better than being stark bald.

 

I agree, there is no perfect solution. Your end result depends on your NW level, your hair characteristics, and your choice of physician. I would not be happy with the hair I have now when I was 27, but at my current age, it is a significant improvement.

[Julius]

You see this look on alot of guys in their 40s. It looks like a buzz cut, but there is no hiding the fact that there is some MPB going on.

 

I think I know what you mean, but most of the guys I see with this look are diffuse thinners and it actually looks good on them, though I am not one of them (I know a fifty year old diffuse thinner who buzzes to a #2 all around and he looks great no one can even tell he has mpb). At 1/3rd the original density via FUE I would imagine there would be a real discernable disparity between the hair transplanted and that behind it even if it was buzzed.

Cheers

[Julius]

"less is more" look

 

Does anybody have pictures of this?

[Julius]

Here's a link to one guy who has had it:

 

http://www.forhair.com/Hair_Tr.../CIT/Patient_BAW.htm

 

It does not show the back of his head, I also think I see a discernable disparity between the hair transplanted and that on the sides. What do others think?

 

Nevertheless it looks good from what little documentation there is.