Norwood 0 - future proofing on Meds

[GaryStruthers]

Hi lads

My friend has no hair loss. 41, no recession, possibly thinning in crown.

Family genetics (Balding on maternal side only)

I’ve been a member here for a while now and have seen really good info on bloodwork in relation to starting Fin/Min. It’s just hard to track down through search. 
He wants to retain his hair for life, and instead of telling him to jump into the “big 3” I wanted your take on the best approach eg

Step 1: See hair Dermatologist 

Step 2: Get pertaining bloodwork done in relation to medication stack

Step 3: Commit to stack tailored for hair loss prevention (I doubt a future transplant is in his story) 

I’ve created this post due to myself jumping on the big 3 without complete research. I got lucky with avoiding sides, and grew/retained a lot of hair. 
I don’t want him to jump on my stack just because it worked for me. Please let me know if I have left anything crucial out, and would appreciate any additional advice that this great forum continues to offer. 
I’m respecting his privacy at this time, but as far as images go - full head of hair, impeccable hairline, any thinning in the whorl is probably from aging. 
He wanted to rush out and buy Rogaine foam - I told him to wait until I had posted here. 

[Mike10]

If you'are not sure you have MPB do not take medication. This medication is for hair loss not for anxiety. You may consider to get a proper diagnosis first, preferably by a reputated HT Dr.

[NARMAK]

By the time people diagnose hair loss, the damage is already 50% done and you'll be lucky to get ground back. 

I'll give a great example. I have had a hair transplant just over 5 weeks ago. After 7 days, the hair was largely there with maybe some fallout with the headwash. Then mere weeks later more and more fell out as i'm heading towards month 2. We all know this as the "Ugly Duckling" phase but what's alarmed me more than anything is how even thought that's almost like a literal expected thing, something i guess you could even say i was looking out for, it's only once you compare pictures you realise. My hair was shaved and then as it grew out, the hair fell. Now imagine somebody who keeps their hair long and not actively looking for it over years having this slow, slow process of hair loss via miniaturised hairs and then you understand why taking Finasteride pre-emptively at a low dosage isn't such a bad idea if you don't have a visible loss and no sides. It's almost like taking a multivitamin at that point imo to keep things at an optimum. 

[sukh123]

55 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

By the time people diagnose hair loss, the damage is already 50% done and you'll be lucky to get ground back. 

I'll give a great example. I have had a hair transplant just over 5 weeks ago. After 7 days, the hair was largely there with maybe some fallout with the headwash. Then mere weeks later more and more fell out as i'm heading towards month 2. We all know this as the "Ugly Duckling" phase but what's alarmed me more than anything is how even thought that's almost like a literal expected thing, something i guess you could even say i was looking out for, it's only once you compare pictures you realise. My hair was shaved and then as it grew out, the hair fell. Now imagine somebody who keeps their hair long and not actively looking for it over years having this slow, slow process of hair loss via miniaturised hairs and then you understand why taking Finasteride pre-emptively at a low dosage isn't such a bad idea if you don't have a visible loss and no sides. It's almost like taking a multivitamin at that point imo to keep things at an optimum. 

Multiviamins don’t alter your hormonal profile and affect the neurosteorids in your brain while also giving  sexual side effects to some men . So taking the drug if you have no visible hair loss is not advisable. DHT is the most androgenic hormone and although people can cope without it, I rather have it than not. But as I suffer from hair loss I’ve had to weigh the pros and cons and take the drug even though I’m not comfortable nuking my dht . 

[RTC]

21 minutes ago, sukh123 said:

Multiviamins don’t alter your hormonal profile and affect the neurosteorids in your brain while also giving  sexual side effects to some men . So taking the drug if you have no visible hair loss is not advisable. DHT is the most androgenic hormone and although people can cope without it, I rather have it than not. But as I suffer from hair loss I’ve had to weigh the pros and cons and take the drug even though I’m not comfortable nuking my dht . 

Have you considered topical fin instead? studies showing that at very low doses it doesn't go systemic and is still effective, it's mainly in the higher doses and frequencies that it ends up going systemic

I too have serious concerns about nuking such a potent androgen. You can't suppress a hormone fundamental to being male and just get away with it.

[NARMAK]

1 hour ago, sukh123 said:

Multiviamins don’t alter your hormonal profile and affect the neurosteorids in your brain while also giving  sexual side effects to some men . So taking the drug if you have no visible hair loss is not advisable. DHT is the most androgenic hormone and although people can cope without it, I rather have it than not. But as I suffer from hair loss I’ve had to weigh the pros and cons and take the drug even though I’m not comfortable nuking my dht . 

I never once claimed Finasteride doesn't have that effect and my comparison stands imo. I'm not saying the risks of Finasteride and a multivitamin are comparable, just that it's the idea of taking it once per day as a similarity but for keeping your hair 

It's specifically because of fear mongering disproportionate to the scientific clinical studies on the actual medication that's led a lot of men to probably never even try it and end up slick bald. 

I respect anybody who has actually done a proper research into the medication deciding to not take it as long as they do not choose to fear monger others away from an effective, long term proven hair loss solution available at a relatively inexpensive price. 

I also have even more respect for those who did try it after research, saw they had sides  and stopped but still aren't fear mongering. People like Melvin. 

I have been incredibly fortunate to retain as much hair as i did without Finasteride (Dutasteride in my case) from 21 to 31. I can only imagine how bad it would have been had my hair loss been more aggressive in my 20s.

DHT serves little function to males after approximately age 25 when our bodies have matured and that's why most even by "nuking" it function relatively well. Like you, i would rather have it for my body/brain if there was something else that could specifically stop hair loss DHT 100%.

I weighed up all the risks, tried it and it actually took me some months to adjust from the sides myself because i also blasted a full 0.5mg everyday dose of Dutasteride rather than taper. Now whilst i personally wouldn't advise that, i did hopefully in some way possibly save more hair. 

[Vann]

1 hour ago, NARMAK said:

I never once claimed Finasteride doesn't have that effect and my comparison stands imo. I'm not saying the risks of Finasteride and a multivitamin are comparable, just that it's the idea of taking it once per day as a similarity but for keeping your hair 

It's specifically because of fear mongering disproportionate to the scientific clinical studies on the actual medication that's led a lot of men to probably never even try it and end up slick bald. 

I respect anybody who has actually done a proper research into the medication deciding to not take it as long as they do not choose to fear monger others away from an effective, long term proven hair loss solution available at a relatively inexpensive price. 

I also have even more respect for those who did try it after research, saw they had sides  and stopped but still aren't fear mongering. People like Melvin. 

I have been incredibly fortunate to retain as much hair as i did without Finasteride (Dutasteride in my case) from 21 to 31. I can only imagine how bad it would have been had my hair loss been more aggressive in my 20s.

DHT serves little function to males after approximately age 25 when our bodies have matured and that's why most even by "nuking" it function relatively well. Like you, i would rather have it for my body/brain if there was something else that could specifically stop hair loss DHT 100%.

I weighed up all the risks, tried it and it actually took me some months to adjust from the sides myself because i also blasted a full 0.5mg everyday dose of Dutasteride rather than taper. Now whilst i personally wouldn't advise that, i did hopefully in some way possibly save more hair. 

well said

[Vann]

i also want to point out that the way this drug was made it was not intended for hair loss. Like many drugs their original purpose was to treat some kind of issue. In this case being renal/prostate issues. It just happened as a side effect that some men had recovery to their hairloss. To understand the drug is to understand its full purpose and not its counter part. 

If you genuinely had any issues with your hormones I am pretty sure your doctors would be able to detect lab work and perhaps not issue it if it was a major cause for concern seeing that its benefit does not out weigh the cost. There are some measures you can take such as hormonal tests to see if you would actually be impacted. I really like the way @NARMAK describes the drug fin/dut. THere are a bunch of ways he describes the drug and having taken both and taken them when I was young you really dont experience much until you find out youre experiencing them and sometimes its completely normal or temporary. It depends on you as an individual. No one can really tell you how to feel other than yourself.

Ex: viagra, penicillin, and so many more other drugs that were created by complete misunderstandings of how their original use was intended for.

[ciaus]

Its important to keep a photographic record, same lighting/angle etc, maybe every 6 months to a year to give the most objective evaluation for how well he's maintaining. Anxiety about hair loss can play tricks on the mind and not just when it comes to remembering how much hair you've had, but also in terms of giving yourself side-effect like symptoms from worrying too much about the potential for side effects. The placebo and nocebo effects are profound aspects of human physiology that are not fully understood, don't underestimate them. 

Having an open relaxed mindset when starting finasteride is very important for those reasons. Tell him to just communicate with his doctor and go about his regular routine after starting finasteride for at least the initial months. There's too much scare mongering and bs stories from frustrated guys online from a vocal minority. A small percentage to actually get side effects, but more often its frustrated guys with other underlying undiagnosed medical conditions and malicious guys that are bitter they can't take the medication and want to spread their misery. Most of us are taking finasteride without issues, over 15 yrs for me personally. 

 

[sukh123]

5 hours ago, NARMAK said:

I never once claimed Finasteride doesn't have that effect and my comparison stands imo. I'm not saying the risks of Finasteride and a multivitamin are comparable, just that it's the idea of taking it once per day as a similarity but for keeping your hair 

It's specifically because of fear mongering disproportionate to the scientific clinical studies on the actual medication that's led a lot of men to probably never even try it and end up slick bald. 

I respect anybody who has actually done a proper research into the medication deciding to not take it as long as they do not choose to fear monger others away from an effective, long term proven hair loss solution available at a relatively inexpensive price. 

I also have even more respect for those who did try it after research, saw they had sides  and stopped but still aren't fear mongering. People like Melvin. 

I have been incredibly fortunate to retain as much hair as i did without Finasteride (Dutasteride in my case) from 21 to 31. I can only imagine how bad it would have been had my hair loss been more aggressive in my 20s.

DHT serves little function to males after approximately age 25 when our bodies have matured and that's why most even by "nuking" it function relatively well. Like you, i would rather have it for my body/brain if there was something else that could specifically stop hair loss DHT 100%.

I weighed up all the risks, tried it and it actually took me some months to adjust from the sides myself because i also blasted a full 0.5mg everyday dose of Dutasteride rather than taper. Now whilst i personally wouldn't advise that, i did hopefully in some way possibly save more hair. 

No function, is in my opinion  far fetched , hence why so many people as seen on this forum when reducing their dht via these medicines suffer sexual side effects. If it had little function then people  would not Be getting these side effects. And’s it why if your trying to conceive with your partner the drug has be to ceased immediately to prevent complications. The drug as I mentioned before helps cognitive function as well as regulating oestrogen , which is why some men taking  fin  get gyno. Now I agree as you said , a majority of men can take this drug and have no problem , like myself . But I also understand the uneasinesses of so many men pulling the trigger on it , because the reality is while I feel a lot of the fear mongering is over exaggerated, the reality is a lot of men don’t want to take that risk and hence would be apprehensive about taking it as a preventative.

[Savemyhairline]

Personally I would not take any hair loss drug as a preventative without any signs of mpb. I think the fear mongering with finasteride is ridiculous and most men won’t experience side effects, but I still would not take It if I had good hair and a perfect hairline. If I were paranoid, I would simply see a dermatologist/reputable hair transplant surgeon and pay for an annual checkup with a microscope to detect miniaturization. Though I have been obviously receding for many years so I have never had this “dilemma” 😄

Edited July 4, 2022 by Savemyhairline

[Gatsby]

6 hours ago, ciaus said:

Its important to keep a photographic record, same lighting/angle etc, maybe every 6 months to a year to give the most objective evaluation for how well he's maintaining. Anxiety about hair loss can play tricks on the mind and not just when it comes to remembering how much hair you've had, but also in terms of giving yourself side-effect like symptoms from worrying too much about the potential for side effects. The placebo and nocebo effects are profound aspects of human physiology that are not fully understood, don't underestimate them. 

Having an open relaxed mindset when starting finasteride is very important for those reasons. Tell him to just communicate with his doctor and go about his regular routine after starting finasteride for at least the initial months. There's too much scare mongering and bs stories from frustrated guys online from a vocal minority. A small percentage to actually get side effects, but more often its frustrated guys with other underlying undiagnosed medical conditions and malicious guys that are bitter they can't take the medication and want to spread their misery. Most of us are taking finasteride without issues, over 15 yrs for me personally. 

 

This ^ We see ourselves everyday in the mirror and miss all the subtle changes. By taking a photo once a month you will have a record of data to show you exactly what is going on. All the best!

[NARMAK]

3 hours ago, sukh123 said:

No function, is in my opinion  far fetched , hence why so many people as seen on this forum when reducing their dht via these medicines suffer sexual side effects. If it had little function then people  would not Be getting these side effects. And’s it why if your trying to conceive with your partner the drug has be to ceased immediately to prevent complications. The drug as I mentioned before helps cognitive function as well as regulating oestrogen , which is why some men taking  fin  get gyno. Now I agree as you said , a majority of men can take this drug and have no problem , like myself . But I also understand the uneasinesses of so many men pulling the trigger on it , because the reality is while I feel a lot of the fear mongering is over exaggerated, the reality is a lot of men don’t want to take that risk and hence would be apprehensive about taking it as a preventative.

I never said "no function" though. I said serves little function after Age 25 as that's when pretty much 99% of males complete their full maturity from any and almost all DHT related activity. That's why reducing it via Finasteride to 70% or greater doesn't affect the majority of men who take the medication as you pointed out yourself. 

Again, your own post says the majority of men tolerate it well, indicating that a minority of men experience side affects, which given the billions of men out there can happen. So why are the majority of people uneasy taking it? Because of a circa less than 2% chance of permanent side affects reported in clinical studies? In fact, the clinical studies also showed people on Placebo claimed as many side affects too. 

My point is that fear mongering around Finasteride has been so successful that everybody is willing to pretty much write the drug off because of this "uneasiness" you claim they may have and imo NOT have done proper research. In fact, the majority of men i run into don't seem to. 

I bet you that losing hair causes men a loss in self confidence, anxiety and aging/being overwight as well a loss of libido more than Finasteride causes. 

Again, there's now topical versions too to help reduce system sides and there's options if people are willing to pay if they're concerned. 

However, i'll come back to a final point on it. Without a trichoscopic evaluation the majority of people will find it hard to know when MPB has started. Added to that, regaining ground is an uphill battle. All the top doctors even say by the time we notice 50% of the damage is done, so as suggested above, pictures might show you but they're simply bot good enough by their own. 

If you want to keep the maximum amount of hair, Finasteride taken pre-emptively will maintain your hair for significantly longer because almost all males are losing hair due to DHT whether slow or fast from their mid/late teens onward. The medication gives you more time with the hair. 

Being on a micro dosage also allows you to make sure you leave enough DHT for bodily function. 

Only a very small fraction of men will ever keep the majority or all of the hair without medication. Those hirstute individuals usual have an extremely strong family history which is why people still look at that.