How bald is too bald!

[chris81]

Good morning everyone - I am a first time poster, very grateful to have found this incredible forum. I am looking for some advice please?

...oh and sorry for the long first post!

I had a beautiful thick head of hair in my teens, and I was very proud of it, but started to go bald in my early 20's, with signs first being visible back in 1999 when I was still a little ankle biter at only 18 years old.

Back then I can remember feeling sick, embarrassed, and sometimes it got quite depressing, but though I did try some magic spells and potions from the market place, nothing seemed to help, and my hair got worse and worse over the 10 years that followed. I think can remember reading about hair transplants, but back then it must have been less popular, and possibly much more expensive. I decided hair loss prevention was something I could never have, something for celebrities and rich people..

I eventually made peace with my situation, and though I lost my sense of pride in appearance somewhat (I have a rather odd shaped head sadly...) I started shaving my head and accepted I would never look "nice" again. I also learnt to avoid the camera, and it is slightly comical to notice that there are no photos of me between the ages of 22 and 30 years old. I do not know of one photograph of me in my late 20's at all...!

I am lucky enough to have a beautiful wife and young children; so I can't complain about life really. I think I had lost pretty much all my top hair by around age 30; and I am 41 years old now. I eventually learnt to just let myself get photographed, and I just accept that I'm that funny looking bald thing in a given photo. I don't really think about it now. I don't think much has changed with my hair in the last 10 years, but then again I don't think it can get much worse... I attach some glamour shots!

So... anyway...

Recently I met a guy who had a nice head of hair, and he said to me "I used to be just like you, and I had a hair transplant". I was intrigued, but skeptical, but I asked him a few questions and he explained he had been through two procedures. The first he paid £2,000 for and I forget where he said it was (I think Hungary?), and second he said he paid £1,500 for and he had done in Turkey. I did not get the chance to ask him that many questions, but he was very positive about the experience.

I did some of my own research, and found hundreds of "before and after" shots. However it seems a lot of people get loss at the crown, or the temples, and they have transplants to fill these in. But I have not found anyone with a situation as dire as mine.

I don't care about having a "perfect" Justin Beber head of hair. I'd just like enough to not be bald. It does not have to be perfect, and I don't care if it still looks a bit thin, or has the appearance that I am receding. But just enough to I don't look at photos and think I look like an odd shaped potato, with a face on it would be very nice! But the other thing is I am not rich either, so I could not justify a massive expense. Some of the £1,500 "hair mills" would be perfectly affordable for me, but many seem to be very critical of them - though I am not sure exactly what the problem with them is.

Does anyone know if it is worth me looking into this, or am I too far gone?

Thanks in advance everyone!

[Nw7HPE]

I have one word for you : Dr Zarev 

[mafpe]

you're quite on the deep end of norwood classification... the number of grafts you'd require is going to be staggering for a good result...

the risk of the hair mills saying yes to your request and just "we can do that", and end up sabotaging your donor area is very high.

 

in a sense, you might be fine with less hair on the side and just fill the top, but when the hair grow out, having a balding side would seem out of place, and should you just shave your side, it would depend on how visible your scarring will be. if it's unnoticeable, great! you can just shave very regularly to keep the facade, but if not then people would notice.

 

hair mills are frowned by most because we as people are risk averse, and going to them, especially asking for tons of graft put you at a high risk of a botched procedure.
they would try to fit all in one go procedure, which means your graft survival rate will be low as they will be hurrying to "fill the quota".

[THE TRUTH]

I have only 3 options for 

1) Dr. Zarev.

10 0000 grafts × 4€ = 40 000€ to achieve a decent and solid head of hair. 2 sessions required 

2) SMP. 

3) Laser removal the remove the shadow. 

[chris81]

Thanks Guys.

I should have mentioned that I have put feelers out to Eugenix after seeing such glowing reviews for them; but I am expecting it to be far too expensive for me to be able to afford. Then I have also enquired at Dr Resul Yaman, and FueCapilar. I have had no feedback yet, as I only messaged them yesterday.

In my gut feel I am thinking my budget is too tight, and I going to have to suffer in silence for the remainder of my existence 🤣 (I say this in good humor by the way). But this did give me a bit of hope and it really showed me how much being bald bothers me, and how excited I got at the prospect of a solution. I really would love to be able to do this!

I don't think I am enough of a risk taker to go for a "hair mill". I still don't quite understand exactly what the risks are, but I can understand there must be a reason for people to advise against them. I saw a thread where someone was complaining about "doubles and multiples" at the front of their hairline; this sort of thing would not bother me at all, so I guess my standards are not as high as many others. That said, I would not want to look like Deadpool because of the surgery!

I took a quick look for Dr Zarev, and I am thinking he might be too expensive for me. He appears to be around 4 Euro per graft, and I think I need a lot of them. I just don't have the cash to splash out £10K-£40K or maybe more on myself... I wish I did!

I is sounding like I am a lost cause... I'll still look forward to hearing from the above clinics I have contacted for their thoughts, and I will add their comments here for people to see. There must be more curious and extremely bald people like me out there.

[NARMAK]

Firstly your grade of baldness is really advanced and the shaved head pictures make it impossible to tell the quality of your donor and the beard being shaved also makes it tough to see. 

I would NOT be recommending you to go anywhere cheap. You're going to get botched for sure and you will regret and rue the day you chose them rather than staying bald. 

I think the best thing honestly for you to do is save up and go to a specialist if you are deemed suitable. 

Take a look @Zoomsterand @Bandit90 for high Norwood cases on the forum here who can also talk you through and you can see their journey on the Eugenix YouTube channel as well as here. 

The cold harsh reality is that sometimes, we aren't suitable for a hair transplant even when sometimes you have more hair on your head and sometimes when you don't look completely suitable, somehow there's a way. 

So it has to be really properly looked into. 

 

[chris81]

Thanks for the feedback - I will let me hair grow at the sides/back so some better pictures can be taken. I previously had very thick hair, and it grows quite fast at the sides, so would guess I have a pretty good donor area; but I could be wrong. It has gone silvery grey too, which does not help it being photographed! 😛

I have found Zoomster's thread, and it certainly helps. I never even thought 11,600 grafts was possible. His hairline does look quite similar to mine; all be it that he had grown his, so it does give me hope. I'll see if I can spot what he paid in the thread 😁.

Ditto Bandit90's thread looks great, though he is early days so it is hard to know if he has had the same results. I shall keep an eye on that one.

I think some men have the tough guy look (Bruce Willis, Jason Statham) and can pull off being bald. But I am quite baby faced, and it makes me look even more nerdy and weezly... so I would love to be able to have hair again!

 

 

[mafpe]

26 minutes ago, chris81 said:

Thanks Guys.

I should have mentioned that I have put feelers out to Eugenix after seeing such glowing reviews for them; but I am expecting it to be far too expensive for me to be able to afford. Then I have also enquired at Dr Resul Yaman, and FueCapilar. I have had no feedback yet, as I only messaged them yesterday.

In my gut feel I am thinking my budget is too tight, and I going to have to suffer in silence for the remainder of my existence 🤣 (I say this in good humor by the way). But this did give me a bit of hope and it really showed me how much being bald bothers me, and how excited I got at the prospect of a solution. I really would love to be able to do this!

I don't think I am enough of a risk taker to go for a "hair mill". I still don't quite understand exactly what the risks are, but I can understand there must be a reason for people to advise against them. I saw a thread where someone was complaining about "doubles and multiples" at the front of their hairline; this sort of thing would not bother me at all, so I guess my standards are not as high as many others. That said, I would not want to look like Deadpool because of the surgery!

I took a quick look for Dr Zarev, and I am thinking he might be too expensive for me. He appears to be around 4 Euro per graft, and I think I need a lot of them. I just don't have the cash to splash out £10K-£40K or maybe more on myself... I wish I did!

I is sounding like I am a lost cause... I'll still look forward to hearing from the above clinics I have contacted for their thoughts, and I will add their comments here for people to see. There must be more curious and extremely bald people like me out there.

money is a main factor for some people, at the very least, eugenix even at the cheaper package, have their people trained better than the hair mills. granted, you can luck out at a hair mill but... its a gamble again.

what kind of head do you want? some are fine with very recessed hair as long as they still have some, that could be an option and you can get them in stages, depending on what you can afford. if you want a full head of hair however... from this forum i've only seen dr zarev being talked about with that many graft, and perhaps on eugenix high norwood case.

bang for buck option is usually turkey with yaman, demirsoy, fuecapilar, and bicer as the common reccomendation.

[chris81]

I'm not after having a perfect head of hair back; I'd love it, but it's not essential for me. What Zoomster has is fantastic, but it is way over and above what I would be happy with. Also I don't want money to be a main factor, but I am a family man with responsibilities - I can't go treating myself to £20K of surgery when it's non-essential. If I was a single man I'd probably just take out a loan or something...

I guess if I could go from a Norwood 7 (or am I the first Norwood 8 😆) to a Norwood 3, I would be very happy; even if it still looked slightly thin... and I guess maybe if I was able to afford an initial surgery, I could budget for more in the years to come.

[NARMAK]

7 minutes ago, chris81 said:

Thanks for the feedback - I will let me hair grow at the sides/back so some better pictures can be taken. I previously had very thick hair, and it grows quite fast at the sides, so would guess I have a pretty good donor area; but I could be wrong. It has gone silvery grey too, which does not help it being photographed! 😛

I have found Zoomster's thread, and it certainly helps. I never even thought 11,600 grafts was possible. His hairline does look quite similar to mine; all be it that he had grown his, so it does give me hope. I'll see if I can spot what he paid in the thread 😁.

Ditto Bandit90's thread looks great, though he is early days so it is hard to know if he has had the same results. I shall keep an eye on that one.

I think some men have the tough guy look (Bruce Willis, Jason Statham) and can pull off being bald. But I am quite baby faced, and it makes me look even more nerdy and weezly... so I would love to be able to have hair again!

 

 

I think it's great that you came to a community like this before you did anything. It's probably one of the best decisions you've taken so far to begin this journey. 

However, i think it's always nice to set up a person with the truth and realistic expectations and with hair transplants whilst not 100% true in all cases, the general adage of "You get what you pay for" stands true and particularly what a lot of younger or older guys desperate to get their hair back do is go to these places in Turkey etc. who aggressively over harvest and then you have issues at the front which is where the complaints of thick pluggy looking multiples etc. is found as a hallmark of hair mills that doesn't look natural. 

This is going to be a journey and doing it right requires time, patience and some money to be saved up and set aside. 

Above all, a touch of luck too imo. 

However budget is a big part of things and you should INVEST in yourself. Just as our health is priceless, don't put £1500 etc. as a barrier to you improving your situation and ending up worse. 

[hairman22]

it is hard to tell.

But you said you have a thick head of hair. The horseshoe shadow you have looks quite dark.

Makes me think yo have a good donor.

 

You have 3 options imo  Zarev,Pitella or Eugenix. Maybe H&W too

[chris81]

Thanks guys,

I have been posting on car forums for over 10 years, so finding a forum for advice was kind of natural for me.

I do not have any particular financial barrier of such; I have the £1500 as an example of what I have seen the mills quoting. But on the other end of the spectrum I certainly can't spend £20K on myself.... but exactly where my budget would end? - I'm not sure. I guess it will be a bit flexible as I can always save some more.

So my first response has come back from Dr Resul Yaman; well it came from someone called Doga oksuzoglo, who must work there:

Basically they recommend 4500 grafts, at a cost of 3250USD (aproximately £2,630). This does seem like a low number of grafts to me, considering how bad my balding is, but perhaps this is just a basic "boost" rather than an all out perfect job?

Quote

Hello,

After carefully examining and considering all photos and information
mentioned at your messages, Dr. Resul Yaman recommends for your
operation about 4500 grafts. Your donor area looks good. When you get
this operation done your frontal hairline will be recreated with single
grafts to receive a natural look and we will reach healthy density on
frontal area.

If you go ahead with Dr.Yaman you should arrive to Istanbul 1 day before
your operation day. Once you arrive, you are picked up from the airport
to clinic for your blood tests and consulatation with Dr. Yaman. After
your consultation, we apply PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma ) to implantation
area.
PRP helps us for 3 important areas in hair transplantation procedure:
1.Keeping hair roots removed alive longer without any damage.
2.Faster recovery of hair follicles placed and to provide lesser loss
3.To stimulate and boost thin and weak hair follicles.

About charges:
We offer  promotional package to our patients:

  Package: DHI with Yaman Implanter for 3250$ including;
* Pre and post consultations with doctor
* Blood analysis and PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma)
* DHI Operation
* Post operative control and cure
* Post operative medicines
* Special shampoo and lotion for the first 10 washing
* First washing by a specialist
* 3 nights 5* hotel (double room-breakfast inc.)
* Transfers (airport-hotel-clinic-airport)
Postoperative medicines for a year shampoo vitamins spray


In the operation there are 3 major steps of the surgery which are
incisions step, extraction step and implantation step. Incision step is
the first step of the operation and it's performed with sapphiere blade
by Dr. Yaman. I also confirm that your consultation, hair analysis,
hairline design, local anesthesia and incision steps are completed by
Dr. Yaman himself too.
Extraction is performed with low speed modified micro motor by our
extraction experts that have been trained by Dr. Yaman himself
personally. They perform only extraction step of the operation.
Implantation is performed in a  way considering the package you choose.

DHI with Yaman implanter; implantation is perfomed by the implantation
team with Yaman Implanter. Dr. Yaman worked on developing Yaman
Implanter for 5 years and 2 years ago he took its patent. Since than we
have been using Yaman Implanter for implantation step. Our implantation
team members have been educated and trained personally by Dr. Yaman
himself only to use Yaman Implanter.


All operations are completed under watch of Dr. Yaman himself. Here you
can reach a video of operational steps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USjQOXKa8wY&t=7s

Your bandage for one night is applied at the end of the  procedure and
your file is given including recommendations and things to care for to
have comfortable night. Your drugs are prescribed to use for 5 days. You
may comfortably return to your work or home after the operation.

You should visit our clinic on the next day or 2nd day and your hair
should be washed by our nurses. Special lotions and shampoos are used
during this washing procedure and you are recommended to wash your hair
as instructed for 15 days.

Our priority in our clinic is to meet your expectations completely and
to provide the most qualified service by keeping your comfort on top
level.
If you have any question I'll be glad to respond them. We're at your

service.

Best Regards,
Doga oksuzoglu

 

[chris81]

So looking at the options I have so far...

• Hair mills (e.g. Smile hair clinic). £1,500 - Not recommended as reduced chance of success, and possible overharvesting. RULED THIS OUT
• Dr. Resul Yaman £2,630 - Some recommend. Possible lower quality work, seems low graft count proposed at 4500 grafts.
• Eugenix - Waiting for reply.
• FueCapilar - Waiting for reply.
• Dr. Demirsoy - Waiting for reply.
• Dr. Bicer - I need to make contact!
• Dr. Zarev - research shows he will be around £20K+... this is sadly out of my price range. RULED THIS OUT
• Dr. Pittella - I need to make contact!
• Hassan & Wong - Really high end, expect to cost £40K+... sadly out of my price range.  RULED THIS OUT

I shall send out an enquiry to Dr Bicer, and Dr Pittella. From what I have read about Dr. Yaman, I think he would be someone I would be wiling to try. I have found no horror stories that scared me; most are people with considerably higher standards than little old me...!

[Euphoria]

You do appear a Norwood 7 because the side humps are gone but it’s hard to tell with a shaved look like that. But your donor appears higher up so maybe a Norwood 6 Also can’t see your beard density which will be important.

I am a Norwood 6 and I plan to go for a HT as well one day ( lots of hurdles atm, visa, money etc,) these are the doctors I have saved for my list. Bicer, Demirsoy, Pekiner, Keser, HLC, Bisinga, Taleb Burgotti. Will choose either when the day comes. 

Some of the names this forum recommends are too expensive or out of reach for me. 

Anyway you’re certainly not hopeless especially if you’ve a lot of body hair.

Get a hairline going, get some coverage over your head and you can use hair fibers etc. 

 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Euphoria

[Bandit90]

5 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

You do appear a Norwood 7 because the side humps are gone but it’s hard to tell with a shaved look like that. But your donor appears higher up so maybe a Norwood 6 Also can’t see your beard density which will be important.

I am a Norwood 6 and I plan to go for a HT as well one day ( lots of hurdles atm, visa, money etc,) these are the doctors I have saved for my list. Bicer, Demirsoy, Pekiner, Keser, HLC, Bisinga, Taleb Burgotti. Will choose either when the day comes. 

Some of the names this forum recommends are too expensive or out of reach for me. Eugenix is really expensive with doctor’s involvement and with lower packages with techs, well what’s the difference between that and hairmills if techs operate on you?

Anyway you’re certainly not hopeless especially if you’ve a lot of body hair.

Get a hairline going, get some coverage over your head and you can use hair fibers etc. 

 

To compare Eugenix to a hair mill is a bit unjust!  Anybody who has been to Eugenix will know that there is plenty of doctors presence beyond the leading surgeons! 

[Euphoria]

7 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

To compare Eugenix to a hair mill is a bit unjust!  Anybody who has been to Eugenix will know that there is plenty of doctors presence beyond the leading surgeons! 

So the docs operate at even lower packages? Someone posted here that at lower end of packages the techs operate without doctors involvement but you’re giving opposite info. Seems I have been misinformed then, I’ll edit my post.

[Bandit90]

No matter what package, a doctor will do the design. Just on the lower package you are going to get a doctor with lesser experience. Extractions and implantation are all done by techs, but techs work under the supervision of doctors. Eugenix use the DHT method, so they extract and implant at the same simultaneously, so therefore would be impossible for the lead surgeon to do both. 

[RTC]

Do it in stages.. maybe get some to cover the front first and attack the crown later.

But yes, without the money to fully see it through, it will be difficult.

Do not go to a hair mill unless you want hair so bad that you will wish you were bald again.

[chris81]

I have updated the list, I reconsidered and decided to contact Zarev to see what he actually costs.

• Hair mills (e.g. Smile hair clinic). £1,500 - Not recommended as reduced chance of success, and possible overharvesting. RULED THIS OUT
• Dr. Resul Yaman £2,630 - Some recommend. Possible lower quality work, seems low graft count proposed at 4500 grafts.
• Eugenix - Waiting for reply.
• FueCapilar - Waiting for reply.
• Dr. Demirsoy - Waiting for reply.
• Dr. Bicer - Waiting for reply.
• Dr. Zarev - Waiting for reply.
• Dr. Pittella - Waiting for reply.
• Hassan & Wong - Really high end, expect to cost £40K+... sadly out of my price range.  RULED THIS OUT

We'll see what feedback I get.

[mafpe]

do you have an estimate of how much is your budget? that way you can rule the options with 2 filters :

1. recovery until around norwood 3 look (if i get it right)
2. your budget (demirsoy is at 1,5 per graft, bicer at 2 per graft)

i think fuecapilar is around 1,25-1,5 per graft, then theres eugenix middle package.

i think you might need around... 5k maybe? depend on how further back norwood 3 is. or probably around 7k?

[RTC]

FUECapilar would be an excellent choice

Yaman is not the most consistent, but I think for what is being proposed, he could do a decent job for a reasonable price.

[RTC]

Eugenix also obviously brilliant but there's the whole thing of having to travel to India etc.. might ramp up costs significantly

[chris81]

4 minutes ago, Aslitarcan sucks said:

Do not go to a hair mill unless you want hair so bad that you will wish you were bald again.

I have ruled out the hair mill, it will just depend on what the other places come back with, and of course their prices too. It is all well and good people saying cost should not matter... but not everyone can justify £20K+ on themselves. Even if I managed to save that, there would likely be more important family uses for the money.

But for example I can see myself being able to justify £2,630 as Yaman's quote. Above that I am not sure where I would draw the line, but I can pick the Dr. I like the best out of those I think I can afford. If I do not like any of them I can of course stay bald... 😌😆

I think it's all about balance, and what seems to be the best option for me. Right now I am just researching, and it's the experience and feedback from you guys that is adding extra value.

[RTC]

I totally understand what you are saying.. I think Yaman could be a great option. Did he propose a specific plan?

[chris81]

Nothing specific, just that it would be 4500 grafts.

I posted the full message from Yaman above.