Advice on what I need to do

[nialler]

Firstly I would like to thank this forum for giving me an education in how little I know about hair transplants and hair in general. Secondly I would like to thank this forum preventing me from spending 2k and absolutely ruining my life by getting an awful hair transplant 😂  (I was very close to biting on a cheap procedure)

OK my situation

I am 35 and my hairline is receding. It is becoming very hard to not look unkempt every day even though I generally put in an effort to not look like a HOBO.

I am looking to go abroad to a decent clinic. not like to the US for treatment or anything. I have been requesting quotes etc from places in Turkey and portugal etc. I can afford a decent treatment but I dont want to spend more than I have to obviously. 

I am a patient type and have no problem waiting a year or so. I am having a costly dental treatment starting next month and that will cost 10k so don't have it on hand right now anyway but likely June would be the time.

here is a few pics. It is Norwood 2 or 3 max. I just want my hairline to not suck. I may try shaven head for a while.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What do you guys think I need. I am being told by Dr Bicer's coordinator i probably need at 3500-4000 (I was surprised by this even though I know nothing about transplants 😂) . Also is there a difference between Manual and micromotor in terms of results. I am trying to figure out all the pitfalls. 

 

Dr's I am looking at

Ferreira , Bicer, Pekiner , HLC ,Demirsoy, Yaman and Eugenix as I may have a trip to india.

 

I don't take any meds and don't really want to but willing to listen to sense on taking post op for a while.

 

Any help appreciated and apologies for my COVID hairstyle, I havent been to a hairdressers in 18 months 😂
 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by nialler

[nialler]

I will just post the offers I get as they come in.

Erdogan recommends 2300-2500 grafts

I will only let the lead hair surgeon work on my hair not randomer technicians who could be anybody so this clinic is on my list too on that basis. That would work out at 6250 (€2.5) which is within my general budget.

 

I think manual is the way to go from what I am reading.

I doubt a clinic would undersell the work needed that is any way reputable and then try charge more on arrival?

 

 

 

[BLE123]

Looks like you're NW3 but with otherwise pretty thick hair. You've already identified some good clinics - I don't know much about Yaman but the others all produce good consistent results. There's no "taking meds for a while", you either stick with them or not at all. I don't see why you shouldn't get a good result and would expect it to take 2500-3000 grafts. 4000 seems a bit high to me.

[LaserCaps]

Let's review this email line by line. A good exercise and one we can all benefit from.  

"I will just post the offers I get as they come in." So you are basing your decision on cost.  Wait a second, maybe not.....

"Erdogan recommends 2300-2500 grafts." What exactly are you getting done? Be specific. 

"I will only let the lead hair surgeon work on my hair not randomer technicians who could be anybody so this clinic is on my list too on that basis. That would work out at 6250 (€2.5) which is within my general budget." I am assuming the clinics you are considering have more than one surgeon.  Does that mean you will end up paying more? Why are there multiple doctors? Do you think the clinic will just hire anyone off the street? My first thought is to find out what education they have.  Who trained them? What experience do they have, etc.  Have them show you photos of results.  It is about results after all.  

The next thing that's somewhat bothersome to me is the fact you just want the doctor to work on you.  This is a comment I typically hear from someone just coming into the industry with little to no knowledge. That's why you come to forums such as this one.  I am glad you are doing this, part of the research.  

The doctor is typically in charge of the surgical part of the surgery.  That's harvesting grafts, closure, and making sites.  It is the Clinical staff who is in charge of placing.  While some doctors do placing, this is best left to the techs.  These are very talented individuals who typically place hundreds of grafts at any one time.  Consistency and results is what is all about.  Ask who has been there the longest and ask if they can be part of the team.  The graft can only go in one way, the way the doctor made the aperture.  How deep is typically discussed during meetings and based on overall results.  So one question I would ask the doctor is what exactly do you do, and how do the techs know how deep to place the graft.  If you let the doctor also do the placing, you'll be there a few days - and you may end up paying more for his time. Besides, doctors typically do not have experience doing this.  Keep in mind the clinic hired the techs they have for a reason, typically experience, demeanor, etc. 

FUE or FUT will depend on many factors including how you plan to keep your hair, what is your overall pattern, ongoing hair loss, etc.  Are you doing any medical therapy to help you with retention of the native hair? Pls post some photos, these will help.

 

[BLE123]

3 hours ago, LaserCaps said:

Let's review this email line by line. A good exercise and one we can all benefit from.  

"I will just post the offers I get as they come in." So you are basing your decision on cost.  Wait a second, maybe not.....

"Erdogan recommends 2300-2500 grafts." What exactly are you getting done? Be specific. 

"I will only let the lead hair surgeon work on my hair not randomer technicians who could be anybody so this clinic is on my list too on that basis. That would work out at 6250 (€2.5) which is within my general budget." I am assuming the clinics you are considering have more than one surgeon.  Does that mean you will end up paying more? Why are there multiple doctors? Do you think the clinic will just hire anyone off the street? My first thought is to find out what education they have.  Who trained them? What experience do they have, etc.  Have them show you photos of results.  It is about results after all.  

The next thing that's somewhat bothersome to me is the fact you just want the doctor to work on you.  This is a comment I typically hear from someone just coming into the industry with little to no knowledge. That's why you come to forums such as this one.  I am glad you are doing this, part of the research.  

The doctor is typically in charge of the surgical part of the surgery.  That's harvesting grafts, closure, and making sites.  It is the Clinical staff who is in charge of placing.  While some doctors do placing, this is best left to the techs.  These are very talented individuals who typically place hundreds of grafts at any one time.  Consistency and results is what is all about.  Ask who has been there the longest and ask if they can be part of the team.  The graft can only go in one way, the way the doctor made the aperture.  How deep is typically discussed during meetings and based on overall results.  So one question I would ask the doctor is what exactly do you do, and how do the techs know how deep to place the graft.  If you let the doctor also do the placing, you'll be there a few days - and you may end up paying more for his time. Besides, doctors typically do not have experience doing this.  Keep in mind the clinic hired the techs they have for a reason, typically experience, demeanor, etc. 

FUE or FUT will depend on many factors including how you plan to keep your hair, what is your overall pattern, ongoing hair loss, etc.  Are you doing any medical therapy to help you with retention of the native hair? Pls post some photos, these will help.

 

Did you read any of his first post? Pics and info are there.

Obviously all doctors have technicians assisting them throughout the process but what he doesn't want is to end up somewhere where it's just technicians doing the work and all the doctor does is draw a line on your head. None of those he shortlisted are like that though(not sure about Yaman), apart from Erdogan depending on what package you choose.

[nialler]

All fair critique. I already said I know less than very little. I am getting FUE done. I am taking no meds

I should have added that most people from what I read said avoid hair mills who have technicians or other docs do all the work where you see the doctor very little etc

Erdogan is very good but since he went to a different model of clinic results have suffered from what i read etc

That clinic is on the list on the basis Erdogan is very very good and I can choose to get him to do all the surgery within my general budget

The comment on letting randoms work on my hair is more like what I would get if I didn't choose to have the doctor do incisions and hairline ( if you don't choose this option Erdogan only does partial incision and rest) 

I know others will be involved I just want the doctor I am paying for because of the reputation he has for good work to be doing my hair and being heavily involved. I think that is pretty fair .

Finasteride has been rec'd by Erdogan but I am very wary of taking meds. I will have to read up on them too.

 

I didn't know FUE existed like 5 days ago. I didn't know the Norwood scale existed 4 days ago. 

I think I am doing ok 😂

 

[nialler]

3 hours ago, BLE123 said:

Looks like you're NW3 but with otherwise pretty thick hair. You've already identified some good clinics - I don't know much about Yaman but the others all produce good consistent results. There's no "taking meds for a while", you either stick with them or not at all. I don't see why you shouldn't get a good result and would expect it to take 2500-3000 grafts. 4000 seems a bit high to me.

Yeah I read earlier today If you stop taking the meds you lose the results. I am wary of side effects. I don't want the cure to be worse than the disaese.

As I said though I have 9-12 months to figure things out. 

[Al - Moderator]

 

From the picture below it looks like you have thinning all through your midscalp, so I can see why a Dr would be saying you may need up to 4000 grafts. as far as the Finisteride, you can try it and see if you have any negative side effects. If so, then stop taking it and reevaluate how you will have the hair transplant done (higher hair line, less dense, etc) in order to get an acceptable improvement while not using too many grafts that you may need later for other areas.

 

 

[nialler]

7 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

From the picture below it looks like you have thinning all through your midscalp, so I can see why a Dr would be saying you may need up to 4000 grafts. as far as the Finisteride, you can try it and see if you have any negative side effects. If so, then stop taking it and reevaluate how you will have the hair transplant done (higher hair line, less dense, etc) in order to get an acceptable improvement while not using too many grafts that you may need later for other areas.

 

 

Yeah the wet pictures really freak me out. It is like seeing the future haha

I am looking into finasteride and alternatives. I want to see if they are absolutely necessary.

 

[nialler]

Dr Demirsoy

 

 Performs extractions and incisions. Nurses do the rest.

2000-2500 grafts to front area and temples @ 1.25

€2500-€3125 

 

 

[deeznuts]

I agree with Dr Bicer. If it was just the temples, I would have pegged you at 2500. But it looks like you've got loss behind the forelock and probably in the forelock as well and they may be looking to add density in certain places as well. 

[nialler]

Yeah looks that way for sure and it would be no harm to thicken more than the temples

[MachoVato]

Can't see your donor area but I assume it's in good shape. I'd guess you're in need of 2,500 - 3,000 grafts to fill in your temples and add density behind your forelock. You might even be able to lower the hairline 1/2 CM or so. 

You have some good doctors listed. Think about your budget. Demirsoy and Bicer are €1.25 per graft. I think Pekiner is €2.25. HLC is €2.5-2.7. Ferreira is €3. 

[Tazmanian]

Hi nialler, what price quote has Dr. Bicer provided you?  

[nialler]

On 8/4/2021 at 10:19 PM, Tazmanian said:

Hi nialler, what price quote has Dr. Bicer provided you?  

No quote yet on price. Manual and auto are different. I will drop every quote I get as they come in here anyway.

[nialler]

On 8/4/2021 at 9:24 PM, MachoVato said:

Can't see your donor area but I assume it's in good shape. I'd guess you're in need of 2,500 - 3,000 grafts to fill in your temples and add density behind your forelock. You might even be able to lower the hairline 1/2 CM or so. 

You have some good doctors listed. Think about your budget. Demirsoy and Bicer are €1.25 per graft. I think Pekiner is €2.25. HLC is €2.5-2.7. Ferreira is €3. 

Yeah my donor area is in good condition. Seems like that is the ballpark figure alright. I will try and break them up and figure out what doctors are best at doing what exactly. seems like I should be going for one that is good with hairlines and NW2-3. 

[JDEE0]

Look into Dr Pinto too - who I'm booked in with myself. 2.60 EUR per graft (at least when I booked a few months back, don't know if his prices dropped during covid as I did hear he was more expensive previously, but I've no idea if that's the case really). Can see results here: 

Also, just to give my 2 cents, I think you're looking at low 3000's in terms of grafts if they graft into your mid scalp which, as has been pointed out, is thinning a bit. 

[nialler]

22 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

Look into Dr Pinto too - who I'm booked in with myself. 2.60 EUR per graft (at least when I booked a few months back, don't know if his prices dropped during covid as I did hear he was more expensive previously, but I've no idea if that's the case really). Can see results here: 

Also, just to give my 2 cents, I think you're looking at low 3000's in terms of grafts if they graft into your mid scalp which, as has been pointed out, is thinning a bit. 

There is nothing there. I think you have been bamboozled 😀

 

Yeah will look into him.  I would really like to see Porto too. Only been in Lisbon.

[nialler]

Dr keser thinks 1500 to 2000 grafts building a new hairline, filling temple points  in a conservative manner and blending with my existing hair,

 

He charges €3.5 per graft.

[nialler]

Dr Bicer got back with a PDF with an offer and a decent amount of details.

2750 grafts micromotor

€4150  (1.5)   @Tazmanian

 

I will actually be in Istanbul next week. Might go meet Dr Bicer if I can fit it in. Would be a good idea to see a good Dr face to face. I would like to hear everything a doctor has to say about medications too.

 

Dr Pekiner also responded

 

PRICES (Euro per graft)
2.5 Ordinary FUE (full shave), head donor to head recipient
2.7 BHT (body hair transplant): hair grafts harvested from beard and body or harvested from head
and implanted on body
3 Partial shaving FUE: a professional barber will shave only the donor; scalp redness and scabs will
not be visible among native long hair on recipient. Donor will heal up in 4-5 days. Please note
some little areas of the recipient maybe shaved. Long hair FUE is not suitable for transplants in
areas where many native hairs are still present (redensification)
A discount is offered if the patient can book with a short term notice on dates chosen by the clinic;
this is called "last minute offer". The amount of the discount will be determined after considering
the parameters of each case.

 

 

$4k is well within my budget at a good doctor like Dr Bicer but am I better off with manual? 

Does it only effect the donor area for future transplants if you need them?

That is the only difference I have been able to find. I think I have a very good donor area and judging from my male family members who have the same receding I will be fine for basically ever on that front. 2750 wont make a huge dent in that. Any imput on this would be helpful.

 

 

 

 

[deeznuts]

Idk about manual vs motorized but I know a lot of the best doctors in the world use motorized. 

[MachoVato]

On 8/10/2021 at 5:32 PM, nialler said:

Dr keser thinks 1500 to 2000 grafts building a new hairline, filling temple points  in a conservative manner and blending with my existing hair,

 

He charges €3.5 per graft.

Keser was my very first choice for a transplant. His hairlines are perfect to me. I had it booked and everything... until covid wrecked everyone's plans.

He's a former HLC doctor. Customized manual punches and stick & place for insertion. He doesn't have a lot of reviews lately, I think you need to go to other forums. He has a limit of about 700 grafts per day, so 3000 grafts is 3, maybe 4 days. Very slow and meticulous, which is why he's expensive. Truth is, at this price, you're in top dog territory... Lorenzo, Feriduni, Lupanzula, Hattingen, and others in the European region.

The forum takes issue with his choice not to use microscopes, he says he doesn't need them. I'm sure he uses loops, but I don't know. I still think Keser is a great option for small procedures (>1500 grafts). But for you, maybe not the right one.