Dr Bicer - 3910 Graft FUE June 2021 - Modest hairline rebuild + Top/Crown

[urbanite88]

Against the odds with all the travel restrictions, I was intent on this mission to end what feels likes years of indecision.

 

Warning, if this is too long please feel free to skip to pictures if you just wanna see the results. Even if this helps one person get another glimpse of surgery with Dr Bicer this may be worth it. I wrote much of this along the way, which I have a habit of doing ( I used to travel blog )  Just putting it together now. 

 

After a stressful uncertain journey, I arrived in Istanbul the afternoon before and went straight for pre surgery consultation after landing that evening.

(I didn't opt for the clinics "VIP" support package, where they take care of accommodation for 2 nights and transfers for you.  I was staying 5 nights. So just booked the Sheraton myself and got a taxi there.)

 

Consultation day before

 

When I arrived for the consultation, I was welcomed at the door by Dr Bicer herself. After a quick greeting, we sat down and I was given a whole bunch of forms to sign. There were over 15 pages to sign and it took a while to read through them. 

 

Meanwhile they were just finishing up with the patient that day, a Brazilian guy here for his second HT. I met him afterwards and we had a nice chat and he seemed happy. The first thing he said to me was "you look good you don't need a HT!" All subjective I guess? He talked about his prior experience having a HT in Germany and that he found this much more pleasant. He was kind enough to let me inspect his crown close up, and I was impressed with that I saw.

 

I was slightly miffed however by the content of the pile of paperwork on my lap. Suggesting certain information was explained/relayed to me, when in fact they were not. Things like the prep leading up to surgery and what to do/not to do etc. Maybe this wasn't sent because there was doubt I would make it? I kept Ozen informed about the UK travel restrictions. I just don't know. Ozen was always available and answered any questions promptly, just perhaps not proactive with certain things. I got the distinct feeling she was juggling a lot of different patients. For any other place, I think this may have been a problem, especially for someone like me with a nervous disposition but I kept reminding myself the reasons I was keen on this clinic and it was all down to the wonderful feedback/results and experiences you guys have all shared on this space. I informed Dr Bicer I just took some painkillers a few days ago after my first covid vaccine, other than that I had a couple of drinks 4 nights before (they advise not to drink the 15 days prior surgery!) Sigh. Then Dr explained this won't be too much of a problem. Blood thinners are the main concern I believe, but that I already knew because I was sent some pre-op instructions by another clinic back in April.

 

After the Brazilian guy left, we finally sat down and discussed the plan. Dr Bicer had a quick physical assessment of my donor area (note there was no tech or tools like a Trichoscan that some clinics use) she noted my donor area was OK and we could proceed with the 3800 session.

 We then discussed how we use that and the density we could aim for. Knowing perhaps she may be used to doing high density hairlines, I suggested I would be happy with a moderate coverage of 45-50 FUcm2 in hairline. In the interest of speed I drew up a planned diagram in the plane to illustrate the split of grafts. She stated we may not have enough to do 1000 grafts in my crown  but she would try for around 700. This seemed agreeable as I was happy to have light coverage in crown for the first session. We left it there and I was told to come in around 8.30am-9 in the morning.

 

I walked back to the hotel comfortable enough to put my trust in Dr Bicer's hands.  I had such a positive feeling.

 

Surgery day 

 

In the morning of the surgery I woke up early and made my way there for 9am . This time I was met by Ozen. There was a shoe bag outside to wrap my feet in while I entered. We discussed the final bits of paperwork including handwriting a statement saying I was making an informed decisions etc etc

 

Ozen then went through the aftercare package and the instructions for the medications/shampoo/washing etc (again this would have been much more helpful to be sent in writing)

 

There were quite a hive of activity in the clinic at that point with several members of staff in motion and phones ringing etc.

 

We then sorted out the payments and I taken to the photo room to have my before pre-op photos taken.

 

 

 

Then Dr Bicer came in to do a few measurements and start drawing the hairline. She checked in with me to make sure I was happy. We had a couple of attempts but I was ok with what I was shown. Essentially a very conservative hair line going from where my front tuff already was and building back a little of the sides. There was no real focus on the temples as I suppose I would just not have enough grafts to play with for this session. She spent more than half hour drawing on my head and I can already tell, this isn't just a robotic operation, she loves what she does and wants to make sure the hairline suits my face.

 

Then it was time to shave off my head and while a blood sample was taken.. at the point I was getting rather tense and requested some sedatives.

 

After my head was shaved, the head markings were re-drawn again but I no longer kept track of where that was anymore. Time to go up to the surgery room, it was already past 10.30am! My arm was bleeding a fair bit as I was told to keep pressing into it.

 

Surgery Room

 

The surgery room itself is fairly small but adequate, I was introduced to the two technicians and the third assistant, who will mostly be helping the other two. After changing into the gown in a separate changing room/bathroom for the patient. I laid down on the surgery chair noting it to be rather comfortable.

 

Dr Bicer showed me the micromotor and then the local anaesthetic began. The anaesthetic involved individual pricks (like the ones you do for finger prick blood tests) the two assistants helped with that as there was about at least 25 of that, I lost count. The back of my head became numb quite rapidly, and they checked it was so.

 

Finally Dr Bicer started the extractions. 

 

After a while the 2 technicians took over with the rest of the extractions. I was periodically checked on to make sure I was ok and with pain etc including having my blood pressure check etc. I even managed to fall asleep for a abit and woke up when Dr bicer was ready for incisions. I then really felt the new local anaesthetic in the recipient area and I must have dozed off again.

 

The one thing I wasn't quite clear on was why I had a needle plugged into my wrist, which was quite uncomfortable at times. But I don't remember this being explain to me, initially. Later when I asked I got the answer.

 

 The incisions were all finished about about 3.15 pm and then I was had a short break to eat lunch which was ordered and prepared for me in next room. Then suddenly there was celebrations in the kitchen.. it was one of the other assistants birthday and we had a lovely slice of a very velvety cake. This one seems to be a signature treat for all Bicer HTs? 

 

Then back to the surgery room and the implanting began. During the first half of implanting I felt quite relaxed and dosed off a couple more times. Dr Bicer periodically came back to the room asking me if I was OK. Throughout the whole implantation, they sprayed my whole head with lots of what I guess was a saline spray? Later, there were times I could really feel them pushing the grafts in. This one went on for abit.. and then I suddenly starting to feel some pain at the front of the head.. I asked to have more anaesthetic without really being aware of how far along they really were.. as it turned out they were almost finished.

 

Suddenly everyone was up and moving about... I was done! It was now fully dark out ..it had just turned 9pm. Almost 11 hours in the operating room! 

 

The assistants held me as I got up slowly. And there was Dr Bicer with a smile that radiated right back at me. The first thing she said was how pleased she was. As we slowly walked back to her office she says she reckons I won't even need a second session now.

 

Those words were like music to my ears! I was over the moon. She asked me how I felt about the whole process and that she would like me to write a review online when I can etc. Dr Bicer advised I could sleep on my side with the travel pillow provided.

 

At this point everyone seemed to have disappeared from the clinic, and soon we walked out the clinic together.

 

Surgery Evening

 

As I got back to the Sheraton next door, I had the biggest smile inside and out. The relief that I'd finally done this and it's gone well.

 

I called my brother and a friend to tell them all about the day. Then had a quick dinner in the room and settled in for the night. And only then realised they did not take any post op photos?! So I am attaching my own

 

 

 

 I then noticed some bleeding and promptly messaged Ozen who asked me to call Dr Bicer. She informed that was nothing to worry about.

 

It took a while for me to calm down after that, as I was worried the blood was gonna drip all over the lovely bed but I eventually managed to get a few hours of sleep.

 

 

Day After Surgery

 

The next morning I woke up feeling totally fine other than a bit of soreness. I contacted Ozen to check what time I should go back to the clinic to have the bandage removed. 

 

Later that afternoon I went back to an almost empty clinic, both Ozen and Dr Bicer were off on holiday and one of the assistants took out my bandage and gave me a head band and a hat to wear. More on this and the aftercare later.

 

 

 

 

Only time will tell how this turn out for me and whether or not this was the best choice, as there were many paths I could have gone with. I am very thankful for Dr Bicer and Ozen, for the care with which they carried out the op, I always felt like I was in good hands, and it was obvious this wasn't just about the money for them. In any case, I am just happy to have done this finally. My mum always says, now is always the best time, because that's all we have guaranteed 

 

On a side note, I was a little worried about posting this because I do not want to encourage anyone to travel against their governments advice. My regular travel insurance would not cover this so I had to get special insurance for high risk travel that normally Journalists would get when they report from war zones!

To add to that, my return flight back to UK got cancelled, as no airline is currently allowed to fly passengers directly from Turkey to UK. So I've had quite abit of run-around and still, even when I eventually do fly home, I won't be able to go to my home but rather a government quarantine hotel for 10 days until they deem me to be in the clear from covid. Unless you thrive in those kind of stressful situations or the thought of being locked up in a hotel room for 10 days and paying an extra 2000 pounds for the privilege, this is really not the a good time to travel.

I will follow up with my day 2-10 progress very soon

Edited June 29, 2021 by urbanite88
typos

[Melvin- Admin]

I have to say this is one of the best written out reviews. I can see that Dr. Bicer really cared about her patients. I would say she’s in the top 1% of all Turkish clinics. I don’t think many clinics operate 11 hours on any one patient. That is true patient care. I look forward to seeing your updates and progress 👏🏼

[urbanite88]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I have to say this is one of the best written out reviews. I can see that Dr. Bicer really cared about her patients. I would say she’s in the top 1% of all Turkish clinics. I don’t think many clinics operate 11 hours on any one patient. That is true patient care. I look forward to seeing your updates and progress 👏🏼

Thanks @Melvin- Moderatorjust noticed a few typos  I was posting this while catching up with some Euro games.

Wish there was a magic wand to skip straight to the final results already  

[slim999]

3 hours ago, urbanite88 said:

Against the odds with all the travel restrictions, I was intent on this mission to end what feels likes years of indecision.

 

Warning, if this is too long please feel free to skip to pictures if you just wanna see the results. Even if this helps one person get another glimpse of surgery with Dr Bicer this may be worth it. I wrote much of this along the way, which I have a habit of doing ( I used to travel blog )  Just putting it together now. 

 

After a stressful uncertain journey, I arrived in Istanbul the afternoon before and went straight for pre surgery consultation after landing that evening.

(I didn't opt for the clinics "VIP" support package, where they take care of accommodation for 2 nights and transfers for you.  I was staying 5 nights. So just booked the Sheraton myself and got a taxi there.)

 

Consultation day before

 

When I arrived for the consultation, I was welcomed at the door by Dr Bicer herself. After a quick greeting, we sat down and I was given a whole bunch of forms to sign. There were over 15 pages to sign and it took a while to read through them. 

 

Meanwhile they were just finishing up with the patient that day, a Brazilian guy here for his second HT. I met him afterwards and we had a nice chat and he seemed happy. The first thing he said to me was "you look good you don't need a HT!" All subjective I guess? He talked about his prior experience having a HT in Germany and that he found this much more pleasant. He was kind enough to let me inspect his crown close up, and I was impressed with that I saw.

 

I was slightly miffed however by the content of the pile of paperwork on my lap. Suggesting certain information was explained/relayed to me, when in fact they were not. Things like the prep leading up to surgery and what to do/not to do etc. Maybe this wasn't sent because there was doubt I would make it? I kept Ozen informed about the UK travel restrictions. I just don't know. Ozen was always available and answered any questions promptly, just perhaps not proactive with certain things. I got the distinct feeling she was juggling a lot of different patients. For any other place, I think this may have been a problem, especially for someone like me with a nervous disposition but I kept reminding myself the reasons I was keen on this clinic and it was all down to the wonderful feedback/results and experiences you guys have all shared on this space. I informed Dr Bicer I just took some painkillers a few days ago after my first covid vaccine, other than that I had a couple of drinks 4 nights before (they advise not to drink the 15 days prior surgery!) Sigh. Then Dr explained this won't be too much of a problem. Blood thinners are the main concern I believe, but that I already knew because I was sent some pre-op instructions by another clinic back in April.

 

After the Brazilian guy left, we finally sat down and discussed the plan. Dr Bicer had a quick physical assessment of my donor area (note there was no tech or tools like a Trichoscan that some clinics use) she noted my donor area was OK and we could proceed with the 3800 session.

 We then discussed how we use that and the density we could aim for. Knowing perhaps she may be used to doing high density hairlines, I suggested I would be happy with a moderate coverage of 45-50 FUcm2 in hairline. In the interest of speed I drew up a planned diagram in the plane to illustrate the split of grafts. She stated we may not have enough to do 1000 grafts in my crown  but she would try for around 700. This seemed agreeable as I was happy to have light coverage in crown for the first session. We left it there and I was told to come in around 8.30am-9 in the morning.

 

I walked back to the hotel comfortable enough to put my trust in Dr Bicer's hands.  I had such a positive feeling.

 

Surgery day 

 

In the morning of the surgery I woke up early and made my way there for 9am . This time I was met by Ozen. There was a shoe bag outside to wrap my feet in while I entered. We discussed the final bits of paperwork including handwriting a statement saying I was making an informed decisions etc etc

 

Ozen then went through the aftercare package and the instructions for the medications/shampoo/washing etc (again this would have been much more helpful to be sent in writing)

 

There were quite a hive of activity in the clinic at that point with several members of staff in motion and phones ringing etc.

 

We then sorted out the payments and I taken to the photo room to have my before pre-op photos taken.

 

 

 

Then Dr Bicer came in to do a few measurements and start drawing the hairline. She checked in with me to make sure I was happy. We had a couple of attempts but I was ok with what I was shown. Essentially a very conservative hair line going from where my front tuff already was and building back a little of the sides. There was no real focus on the temples as I suppose I would just not have enough grafts to play with for this session. She spent more than half hour drawing on my head and I can already tell, this isn't just a robotic operation, she loves what she does and wants to make sure the hairline suits my face.

 

Then it was time to shave off my head and while a blood sample was taken.. at the point I was getting rather tense and requested some sedatives.

 

After my head was shaved, the head markings were re-drawn again but I no longer kept track of where that was anymore. Time to go up to the surgery room, it was already past 10.30am! My arm was bleeding a fair bit as I was told to keep pressing into it.

 

Surgery Room

 

The surgery room itself is fairly small but adequate, I was introduced to the two technicians and the third assistant, who will mostly be helping the other two. After changing into the gown in a separate changing room/bathroom for the patient. I laid down on the surgery chair noting it to be rather comfortable.

 

Dr Bicer showed me the micromotor and then the local anaesthetic began. The anaesthetic involved individual pricks (like the ones you do for finger prick blood tests) the two assistants helped with that as there was about at least 25 of that, I lost count. The back of my head became numb quite rapidly, and they checked it was so.

 

Finally Dr Bicer started the extractions. 

 

After a while the 2 technicians took over with the rest of the extractions. I was periodically checked on to make sure I was ok and with pain etc including having my blood pressure check etc. I even managed to fall asleep for a abit and woke up when Dr bicer was ready for incisions. I then really felt the new local anaesthetic in the recipient area and I must have dozed off again.

 

The one thing I wasn't quite clear on was why I had a needle plugged into my wrist, which was quite uncomfortable at times. But I don't remember this being explain to me, initially. Later when I asked I got the answer.

 

 The incisions were all finished about about 3.15 pm and then I was had a short break to eat lunch which was ordered and prepared for me in next room. Then suddenly there was celebrations in the kitchen.. it was one of the other assistants birthday and we had a lovely slice of a very velvety cake. This one seems to be a signature treat for all Bicer HTs? 

 

Then back to the surgery room and the implanting began. During the first half of implanting I felt quite relaxed and dosed off a couple more times. Dr Bicer periodically came back to the room asking me if I was OK. Throughout the whole implantation, they sprayed my whole head with lots of what I guess was a saline spray? Later, there were times I could really feel them pushing the grafts in. This one went on for abit.. and then I suddenly starting to feel some pain at the front of the head.. I asked to have more anaesthetic without really being aware of how far along they really were.. as it turned out they were almost finished.

 

Suddenly everyone was up and moving about... I was done! It was now fully dark out ..it had just turned 9pm. Almost 11 hours in the operating room! 

 

The assistants held me as I got up slowly. And there was Dr Bicer with a smile that radiated right back at me. The first thing she said was how pleased she was. As we slowly walked back to her office she says she reckons I won't even need a second session now.

 

Those words were like music to my ears! I was over the moon. She asked me how I felt about the whole process and that she would like me to write a review online when I can etc. Dr Bicer advised I could sleep on my side with the travel pillow provided.

 

At this point everyone seemed to have disappeared from the clinic, and soon we walked out the clinic together.

 

Surgery Evening

 

As I got back to the Sheraton next door, I had the biggest smile inside and out. The relief that I'd finally done this and it's gone well.

 

I called my brother and a friend to tell them all about the day. Then had a quick dinner in the room and settled in for the night. And only then realised they did not take any post op photos?! So I am attaching my own

 

 

 

 I then noticed some bleeding and promptly messaged Ozen who asked me to call Dr Bicer. She informed that was nothing to worry about.

 

It took a while for me to calm down after that, as I was worried the blood was gonna drip all over the lovely bed but I eventually managed to get a few hours of sleep.

 

 

Day After Surgery

 

The next morning I woke up feeling totally fine other than a bit of soreness. I contacted Ozen to check what time I should go back to the clinic to have the bandage removed. 

 

Later that afternoon I went back to an almost empty clinic, both Ozen and Dr Bicer were off on holiday and one of the assistants took out my bandage and gave me a head band and a hat to wear. More on this and the aftercare later.

 

 

 

 

Only time will tell how this turn out for me and whether or not this was the best choice, as there were many paths I could have gone with. I am very thankful for Dr Bicer and Ozen, for the care with which they carried out the op, I always felt like I was in good hands, and it was obvious this wasn't just about the money for them. In any case, I am just happy to have done this finally. My mum always says, now is always the best time, because that's all we have guaranteed 

 

On a side note, I was a little worried about posting this because I do not want to encourage anyone to travel against their governments advice. My regular travel insurance would not cover this so I had to get special insurance for high risk travel that normally Journalists would get when they report from war zones!

To add to that, my return flight back to UK got cancelled, as no airline is currently allowed to fly passengers directly from Turkey to UK. So I've had quite abit of run-around and still, even when I eventually do fly home, I won't be able to go to my home but rather a government quarantine hotel for 10 days until they deem me to be in the clear from covid. Unless you thrive in those kind of stressful situations or the thought of being locked up in a hotel room for 10 days and paying an extra 2000 pounds for the privilege, this is really not the a good time to travel.

I will follow up with my day 2-10 progress very soon

You should get a medal for sharing such a well written piece.

Did you use the hat they gave you,  in public and during the flight ?

 

 

 

[SLA]

Excellent @urbanite88! Great write up and thanks for sharing your journey with us. That was fast as I think it was just yesterday that I replied to your post.

Good surgeons know how to do a lot with less so it would be great should the 3,800 be sufficient and there be no need for a 2nd surgery.

Wishing you lots of growing and look forward to seeing your continued progress!!!

[Domino]

I love seeing nw6-7 cases on here. It seems Dr Bicer is really skilled in graft placement. I will be following your progress closely. Thanks for posting.

[Pephair]

13 hours ago, urbanite88 said:

 

On a side note, I was a little worried about posting this because I do not want to encourage anyone to travel against their governments advice. My regular travel insurance would not cover this so I had to get special insurance for high risk travel that normally Journalists would get when they report from war zones!

To add to that, my return flight back to UK got cancelled, as no airline is currently allowed to fly passengers directly from Turkey to UK. So I've had quite abit of run-around and still, even when I eventually do fly home, I won't be able to go to my home but rather a government quarantine hotel for 10 days until they deem me to be in the clear from covid. Unless you thrive in those kind of stressful situations or the thought of being locked up in a hotel room for 10 days and paying an extra 2000 pounds for the privilege, this is really not the a good time to travel.

I will follow up with my day 2-10 progress very soon

To be honest, I've never even thought about medical travel insurance. Is this normal to get?

[urbanite88]

14 hours ago, slim999 said:

You should get a medal for sharing such a well written piece.

Did you use the hat they gave you,  in public and during the flight ?

 

 

 

Haha thanks!

It was a baseball cap.. and definitely not comfortable.. just used it that day. Besides I wasn't ready to advertise i had a HT in the streets of Istanbul.

Would recommend anyone to get a fisherman style soft hat for first few days.. baseball caps feel abit inappropriate if you've just had your hairline worked on.. also it sticks to your still sore donar area

[urbanite88]

15 hours ago, SLA said:

Excellent @urbanite88! Great write up and thanks for sharing your journey with us. That was fast as I think it was just yesterday that I replied to your post.

Good surgeons know how to do a lot with less so it would be great should the 3,800 be sufficient and there be no need for a 2nd surgery.

Wishing you lots of growing and look forward to seeing your continued progress!!!

Thanks @SLA yep slight delay in posting.. when I was writing the intro I was already on the move. All this covid testing and awaiting results really keeps you on the edge

[urbanite88]

First 12 days update

Day 2-4 I swelled up all over face and even the back of my head. Not a great sight! Thankfully it eased quickly after.

 

 

Donor area was looking okay I think?

 

 

Had abit of running around, due to travel plans up in the air. Was initially meant to be in Istanbul for 5 nights. Since I could only return home via a third country, I was exploring leaving IST sooner. 

 

Running around a hot and traffic congested city was not fun. I was stuck in a 50 min taxi ride on route to hospital to get a PCR test (Ozen helped me arrange that in the Asian side of the city, they charged me 250 lira). I was sweating like crazy in the taxi which had no aircon. Even walking on the hunt for a restaurant got me all sweaty.  I was worried what effect that would have on my HT. Especially because I wasn't due to my first wash until the 3rd day (4th because HT day is day 0?)

 

Right after the HT Dr Bicer stated Ozen would send me a video instruction when it was time for my first wash. Day 4 came and went by. When it dawned on me on day 5, I reached out to Ozen to get the video instructions. I will reserve any judgement for now.

 

First wash was very strange, almost like trying to clean a doormat with your finger tips! Despite the video, I had no idea how much pressure to apply. Scared I could dislodge grafts, I pretty much just ended up gently patting the shampoo provided and rinsing with super low pressure in shower head. This is what it looked like after the second wash...

 

 

Day 5 was also the day when I really started to feel donor area pain. It was interesting that it also coincided with some of the medications provided being finished that day? I wondering if one of the medication I was also a painkiller?

 

 I slept worst in day 5-8 due to donor area pain. I would sporadically get this weird sensation of needles in my head. Think my nerves were springing back to life? Also it just all felt so tight, which probably made it all the much worse.

 

I would dread to think what an FUT would feel like.

 

 I got in touch with Dr Bicer during this, and asked for me to send more photo updates and then advised me to start massaging the scalp. Again I was never really clear on how best to massage my donar. It was still tender and painful to touch. But then I found a YouTube video from @Melvin- Moderator, which really helped me, on how to actually massage. By day 10, it seemed much more manageable and I was able to sleep through most the night without waking up finally.

 

Though the scabs were falling off gradually (some hairs were also coming off with them) they were still stubborn. On 12 day, I was about 90% scab free.

 

 

 

 

I have no ideas why these last two pictures are upside down. Can't seem to change it on here.

 

While all this was happening, there was something else that was playing on my mind. I just did not know how to control that inner voice. I will share that in a follow up post.

 

[gradina22]

Hello Urbanite88

 

Im a newbie into posting other patients, but I just wanted to comend you about your write up. 

I found that few things were rather similair to my case, neglecting the fact that you did FUE (FUT myself, 17th post op day). 

 

About that inner voice. Just my guess, maybe Im completely wrong. But if you were feeling down for a day or two, or during some hours of the day.... Dont stress about it. You did a good job, the worst is over and you ll have a very interesting (and slugish haha) days and weeks in front of you. 

I was feeling pretty down 1 post op day. Again was feeling pretty shitty when I came back to my country (16th day). But when I look back at yesterday I just cant believe how could I feel that way, cause today was great! So that shift of emotions is very gripping but also a regular stuff. 

 

If i completly missfired about the inner voice, sorry

 

Your writing was not dull. It was very informing. Also I would add tast you can produce great pictures. 

Head "needles" are prety common. I also had these. Sometimes feeling was pretty intensive. 

 

Did you have itching moments?? 

 

I was also Very nervous about sweating. But dont stress about it. I was moving from Switzerland to Germany and something very close to your case happened. It was hot. I didnt know where the f I was. I was terrified that sweat can fuck something. Although I had bandana over my head. 

I also traveled during Covid19 fuckdemic. 

I was really afraid that something bad will come up on border controls. Try to be chill about it

Dont wory about thit stuff, everything will be fine. My post op check went really smooth

 

Haha, I was also lost with how much presure does one need to use while tending the recipient area. 

 

FYI By the way, my FUT scar never really hurt. I was using a neck pillow for two weeks. 

Didnt get a lot of sleep. But Im now wondering what amount of pain does one experience during FUE cause I really wasnt feeling almost any pain. 

I took only 1 ibuprofen before sleep just for first three days. 

 

Just curious. 

If its not a secret, how old are you and are you using any meds? 

 

Happy growing man. Dont despair when these new folicules go away. They will be back after 3 months

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by gradina22

[Britanium]

Thanks for the update ! It’s not dull in any way whatsoever. Very informative and it’s going to be very helpful for people 👏 keep it up 🙏

Edited July 4, 2021 by JohnAC71

[ITA]

Wow, very interesting case to follow.

[urbanite88]

2 hours ago, gradina22 said:

Hello Urbanite88

 

Im a newbie into posting other patients, but I just wanted to comend you about your write up. 

I found that few things were rather similair to my case, neglecting the fact that you did FUE (FUT myself, 17th post op day). 

 

About that inner voice. Just my guess, maybe Im completely wrong. But if you were feeling down for a day or two, or during some hours of the day.... Dont stress about it. You did a good job, the worst is over and you ll have a very interesting (and slugish haha) days and weeks in front of you. 

I was feeling pretty down 1 post op day. Again was feeling pretty shitty when I came back to my country (16th day). But when I look back at yesterday I just cant believe how could I feel that way, cause today was great! So that shift of emotions is very gripping but also a regular stuff. 

 

If i completly missfired about the inner voice, sorry

 

Your writing was not dull. It was very informing. Also I would add tast you can produce great pictures. 

Head "needles" are prety common. I also had these. Sometimes feeling was pretty intensive. 

 

Did you have itching moments?? 

 

I was also Very nervous about sweating. But dont stress about it. I was moving from Switzerland to Germany and something very close to your case happened. It was hot. I didnt know where the f I was. I was terrified that sweat can fuck something. Although I had bandana over my head. 

I also traveled during Covid19 fuckdemic. 

I was really afraid that something bad will come up on border controls. Try to be chill about it

Dont wory about thit stuff, everything will be fine. My post op check went really smooth

 

Haha, I was also lost with how much presure does one need to use while tending the recipient area. 

 

FYI By the way, my FUT scar never really hurt. I was using a neck pillow for two weeks. 

Didnt get a lot of sleep. But Im now wondering what amount of pain does one experience during FUE cause I really wasnt feeling almost any pain. 

I took only 1 ibuprofen before sleep just for first three days. 

 

Just curious. 

If its not a secret, how old are you and are you using any meds? 

 

Happy growing man. Dont despair when these new folicules go away. They will be back after 3 months

 

Hey man.. thanks for the message. I guess we all go through this process of second guessing ourself/ how everything went and if you really made the best choice etc

I just had this feeling that I'd maybe spread myself too thin.. and I maybe didn't have the best yield/outcome. O will write again about it. 

Btw I'm 37 and yes I've been in med for over 5 years. I also just read your story .. wow!! You has a gigantic FUT! You are very lucky you had such a good donor supply. 

Wish you all the best with your recovery and the results!

 

[Spring15]

Looking good pal. I am also looking to go with Dr Bicer.  Great detail of the whole process you've presented us

Do all the staff speak English? 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Spring15
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[urbanite88]

Got my surgery report back..

 

Here are my graft breakdown:

 

Singles: 2100

Doubles: 1140

Multiples: 670

 

Actual estimate is 6390.

 

All extractions supposedly performed with a 0.7mm punch.

 

This surprised me a little. Over the last year alone I must have seen hundreds of surgery write ups and Youtube review videos. I don't think I've seen anyone/case with so many singles.

 

Without stating the obvious, a high norwood needs to be getting as many multiples as possible. I would imagine this is the goal, even if it is unspoken of.

 

I can't help but wonder if the use of 0.7mm punch had something to do with it? I have done extensive research into Dr Bicer before I dived into this and specifically watched videos of her discussing her approach to use of various punch sizes and how she adapts it for each patient and what she is trying to extract. She uses anything between 0.6mm for singles up to 9mm. That I knew months before sugery. I figured that's what she would do in my case. 

 

I reached out, and Dr Bicer sent back a message explaining she used the smaller size to protect my donor area from being overharvested. And so I would have less visible scars.

 

When I separately asked Ozen what the transection rate was, she initially seemed confused. Then when I explained, she stated they don't count damaged grafts. They possibly did extract more than 3910 grafts but they only count what they implant. Again something I did not feel entirely comfortable with. I think a patient should have a right to know this information? What are your thoughts? 

Edited July 8, 2021 by urbanite88
incorrect hair total

[urbanite88]

14 hours ago, Spring15 said:

Looking good pal. I am also looking to go with Dr Bicer.  Great detail of the whole process you've presented us

Do all the staff speak English? 

Can't say about all of them. Ozen and Dr Bicer do

[Spring15]

Ok cheers

Darn they don't have any appointments available until December-January.. 

[MC10298]

18 hours ago, urbanite88 said:

Here are my graft breakdown:

 

Singles: 2100

Doubles: 1140

Multiples: 670

 

Actual estimate is circa 6200. Quite the disparity

 

I agree, 2100 singles does sound dispropotionaely high. One of the benefits of FUE is the ability to choose the required number of singles for the hairline and then multi-hair grafts for density.

 

Based on the above:-

S 2100

D 1140 X 2 = 2280

M 670 X 3 = 2010 (this would be an absolute minimum as you might expect some 4's 5's etc)

 

Total: 6390 (yield of 1.63 per FU, which seems low)

 

How did you arrive at 6200?

 

General comments

 

• I agree it would good to know the transection rate. I was reading a post recently where the HT transplant reported. "Dr Ma counted every single punch out loud, which was nice to follow along. His team would then pull out the grafts at the same time and provide live confirmation whether it was good or transected, so he could adjust as he went. " 
• I have seen discussions where HT patients compare the size of punch used. 0.7mm is the smallest I've read. There does seem to be a drive to use smaller punches with an inherently increased risk of transection. Ultimately it is the interest of both the clinic and patient to have a successful outcome. All you can do is check previous results, do your due diligence, and trust in the process.

 

 

[SD1984]

Looks very good. I personally don't think anything more than 2500 grafts should be done in one day, but it looks good. I wish you the best in your journey going forward.

[SLA]

I would just try as best you can to trust the process.

You did your due diligence and saw outstanding results with the same use of grafts so try to hold tight.

If you don't feel density is enough, you can always go back for round #2 :).

Maybe review all of those positive result pictures you saw which led you to Dr. Bicer to calm your mind.

 

 

[urbanite88]

1 hour ago, MC10298 said:

 

I agree, 2100 singles does sound dispropotionaely high. One of the benefits of FUE is the ability to choose the required number of singles for the hairline and then multi-hair grafts for density.

 

Based on the above:-

S 2100

D 1140 X 2 = 2280

M 670 X 3 = 2010 (this would be an absolute minimum as you might expect some 4's 5's etc)

 

Total: 6390 (yield of 1.63 per FU, which seems low)

 

How did you arrive at 6200?

 

General comments

 

• I agree it would good to know the transection rate. I was reading a post recently where the HT transplant reported. "Dr Ma counted every single punch out loud, which was nice to follow along. His team would then pull out the grafts at the same time and provide live confirmation whether it was good or transected, so he could adjust as he went. " 
•  
• I have seen discussions where HT patients compare the size of punch used. 0.7mm is the smallest I've read. There does seem to be a drive to use smaller punches with an inherently increased risk of transection. Ultimately it is the interest of both the clinic and patient to have a successful outcome. All you can do is check previous results, do your due diligence, and trust in the process.

 

 

6200 was a typo from top of my head I remembered it being 6300 or so. 

Yeah I've seen a few places (Inc Dr arshad in UK) that do shout out the doubles/tripples etc. It's great to be able to have complete transparency where that is possible. And even the best of the best of surgeon's are still human and will not always be perfect in their execution each time.

All things considering I did opt for what I considered was the best choice for me with all the information I had available. 

[SD1984]

21 hours ago, urbanite88 said:

I reached out, and Dr Bicer sent back a message explaining she used the smaller size to protect my donor area from being overharvested. And so I would have less visible scars.

This answer makes zero sense, just fyi. The size/microns of the hair should be the determining factor of the punch size used. If it was all about protecting the donor from being overharvested as she said with no other factors, then every surgeon in the world would use a .07mm.

[gradina22]

As I understood the process, smaller punch sizes are used for grafts with one hair (like 0.7) and larger ones (0.8, 0.85, 0.9) for larger ones. 

 

Well you went for conservative hairline. I think this was very smart. 

Maybe its best to wait out the process at least for few upcoming months. 

Work on you seems fine. 

[urbanite88]

On 7/7/2021 at 5:39 PM, SD1984 said:

This answer makes zero sense, just fyi. The size/microns of the hair should be the determining factor of the punch size used. If it was all about protecting the donor from being overharvested as she said with no other factors, then every surgeon in the world would use a .07mm.

Yeah its perplexing. There appears to be some debate about this but no consensus on what the perfect balance is.

Hoping the bright side is my donar should be in the best possible condition as can be when I do go for the second session

Edited July 8, 2021 by urbanite88
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