Please share your experience where you were able to obtain 3000+ grafts from a second or third FUT.

[anker21]

I want to go in for a second FUT session and looking to obtain 3000+ grafts. I've had a few consults and some have suggested using the existing scar while others have suggested a new scar just below the existing. Here are my questions and really hoping to get as much feedback as possible.

1. Has anyone had multiple sessions with at least two of them being 3000+ grafts via FUT?

2. Who was the surgeon?

3. Was a single scar used?

4. Did the scar stretch as a result of multiple sessions?

5. How was your laxity just prior to the second large FUT, did stretches help or there was no need?

6. Any recommendations of a surgeon who would be able to get a large number of grafts from a second session?

[Al - Moderator]

Do not get a second scar unless absolutely necessary due to improper placement of the first scar and even then you should try to use as much of the first scar as possible and only veer off of it in places where necessary.

I'm guessing that you were told something like: We can get 2500 grafts if we go along the existing scar, but we can get 3000 if we create a new scar below it. If that's the case then go for the 2500 grafts along the original scar. DO NOT CREATE A NEW SCAR.

Two reasons why you should not create a new scar:

1. It will be harder to hide the scars because you will have two of them. You basically doubled the amount of scar area.

2. What happens if you eventually need a 3rd hair transplant? Where will you get the grafts from? The best, "safe zone" hair to use would be the hair between the two scars, but you can't excise the first scar and use hair just below that because you will be running into the lower scar creating one very wide scar. If you excise the lower scar and use hair below that you could be getting into the nape area that may be experiencing some retrograde which makes that hair unusable.

Go for the lower graft count and use the first scar.

 

[Britanium]

Definitely do not get a second scar. I had 2 and had to get a scar revision many years later to get it improved. But it’s still not great and I’m looking to add BHT to disguise it. 
In 2020 nobody should be getting more than 1 FUT scar. Some Drs can get a really large amount out of one FUT session. 
Please rule out any Drs saying about a creating a second. 

[anker21]

1 hour ago, BeHappy said:

Do not get a second scar unless absolutely necessary due to improper placement of the first scar and even then you should try to use as much of the first scar as possible and only veer off of it in places where necessary.

I'm guessing that you were told something like: We can get 2500 grafts if we go along the existing scar, but we can get 3000 if we create a new scar below it. If that's the case then go for the 2500 grafts along the original scar. DO NOT CREATE A NEW SCAR.

Two reasons why you should not create a new scar:

1. It will be harder to hide the scars because you will have two of them. You basically doubled the amount of scar area.

2. What happens if you eventually need a 3rd hair transplant? Where will you get the grafts from? The best, "safe zone" hair to use would be the hair between the two scars, but you can't excise the first scar and use hair just below that because you will be running into the lower scar creating one very wide scar. If you excise the lower scar and use hair below that you could be getting into the nape area that may be experiencing some retrograde which makes that hair unusable.

Go for the lower graft count and use the first scar.

 

@BeHappy - i was not even thinking about what you mentioned with what i would do if i went for a third procedure. Thank so much for this advice. There has been a lot of disparity between the graft counts i've been quoted between docs. Any recommendations on someone in North America who is known to get large graft counts from multiple FUT procedures?

Edited October 18, 2020 by anker21

[anker21]

1 hour ago, JohnAC71 said:

Definitely do not get a second scar. I had 2 and had to get a scar revision many years later to get it improved. But it’s still not great and I’m looking to add BHT to disguise it. 
In 2020 nobody should be getting more than 1 FUT scar. Some Drs can get a really large amount out of one FUT session. 
Please rule out any Drs saying about a creating a second. 

@JohnAC71 - Based on the responses it makes sense to not go with a second scar. If you don't mind me asking how many grafts did you get for your first and second procedure and did the Dr give you an option of keeping 1 scar during the second FUT? If yes, what was the difference in graft count? Do you have any recommendations on any Dr's who have good results with working with the existing scar and getting a large number of grafts?

[Britanium]

Hi

Both my FUTs was in the UK before I discovered this forum many years ago. Both my FUTs were for around 2200 grafts each. Back then I was told it was ok to get x2 scars. How little informed I used to be. Thank god I managed to get a revision. 

[chicago2017]

1. Has anyone had multiple sessions with at least two of them being 3000+ grafts via FUT?

2560

2. Who was the surgeon?

Dr Wong

3. Was a single scar used?

Yes

4. Did the scar stretch as a result of multiple sessions?

New scar looks better than old. 

5. How was your laxity just prior to the second large FUT, did stretches help or there was no need?

My laxity was about average. I was doing scalp exercises prior surgery for about 2 months. 

6. Any recommendations of a surgeon who would be able to get a large number of grafts from a second session?

Dr Wong is great. Also, I would recommend Hasson and Konior.

Edited October 19, 2020 by chicago2017

[anker21]

@chicago2017 - thanks for advising on this.

[jjsrader]

Ron Shapiro in MN can do mega-sessions & work on a 2nd FUT 'same-scar' as well.  Very experienced FUT surgeon w/the great personnel & techniques.

[anker21]

@jjsrader - thanks. Have you had multiple FUT sessions with Dr. Shapiro? How many grafts in each session? It seems Hasson and Wong have lots of examples of large FUT sessions on their site but not sure if they can use the same scar to get a large number of grafts. Chicago2017 has also mentioned Dr.Konior and his work also seems very good but i haven't seen any mega sessions from him. 

[jjsrader]

I've had so many strips.  All different lines.  Last two were Feller in '04 (2250 grafts) & Soni in '17 (4500 grafts).  I'm going to revise my strip from Soni next year w/Hasson & Wong probably - but I'm done w/strip.  My last surgeries will be FUE.  I've had 8800 grafts from strip beginning in '90.

Edited October 21, 2020 by jjsrader

[Al - Moderator]

There are several factors other than which Dr to go to that can affect how many grafts you can get on a 2nd procedure.

1. The amount of grafts taken on the first procedure. It's going to be less likely to get a large number of grafts on a 2nd procedure if you had 4500+ grafts taken on the first procedure than if you had 3000 or less grafts on the first procedure.

2. Scalp elasticity. Some guys have tighter scalps and aren't going to get as many grafts than someone with a lot of elasticity and loose skin.

3. the width of the first scar. Since the Dr has to cut out the previous scar you will get less grafts if the scar is wide than if the scar is very thin because with a wide scar he will be extracting more scar and less grafts.

 

[anker21]

@BeHappy those are great points.

[yesplease]

On 10/21/2020 at 12:47 AM, jjsrader said:

I've had so many strips.  All different lines.  Last two were Feller in '04 (2250 grafts) & Soni in '17 (4500 grafts).  I'm going to revise my strip from Soni next year w/Hasson & Wong probably - but I'm done w/strip.  My last surgeries will be FUE.  I've had 8800 grafts from strip beginning in '90.

Wow

Have you ever compiled a post that goes through the chronology of your hair, pre and post all of your various procedures? It would be highly informative to the community. 
 

How old are you and how is your hair holding up these days? 
 

thanks 

[jjsrader]

I'm 53 - I have good coverage throughout.  When my hair is cut to the proper length and styled properly I look like I have a mature hairline w/no bald spot.   I have very fine hair and very straight hair.  Every male member on both sides of my family after age 30 was/is NW 6 or NW 7.

I had 100 and 120 grafts (minigrafts) done in Dec. '90 and Jan '91 by Leavitt.  I had 400 and 700 grafts (minigrafts) done in '94 & '95 by Pomerantz.  I had 2250 micrografts done by Feller in '04   All of this work was done in the frontal 1/3rd.

I had 4500 micrografts done by Soni & 500 FUE done in same session in '17.  400 grafts (200 on each side) to do temple points & 4600 from hairline all the way to crown.

Been on minox (now oral for 2+ years) for 25+ years.  Been on proscar and now dutasteride (Avodart) since '97 and '03 respectively.  Been on Nizoral 2% 2X's per week for 15+ years.  400+ diode laser helmet now for 2.5 years+

I'd say my density is about 40% of what I used to have - good overall coverage w/no bald spot.  I'd like to FUE out (maybe 2-3K grafts left) in the next 3 years w/surgery next year and in '23.  Will eventually put alot of beard hair into the worst spots of my scars.

Can't wear my hair short - but never really did anyways in the back.  Sometimes when I'm wearing a hat and my hair is pushed to the left or right in the back you can see a bare spot or two - but 99% of the time it's not noticeable w/a regular haircut on the sides and back.

I do all the medical therapy to keep my existing hair (and donor hair) healthy - it's really worked well but once you commit you can never stop.  I would be a NW 7 by now without any medical hair therapy.  Without hair restoration I would be a solid NW5  So nothing is perfect.  I didn't really start losing my mid-vertex and crown until around 2011 when I was in my mid 40's

With a good thickening shampoo and mousse and blow dry - my hair looks really good.  That being written, I don't recommend hair restoration surgery.  If you are destined to be very bald and have fine hair - genetics will win over 30-50 years - everytime.  I knew I would need multiple surgeries over the years when I saw all my relatives radically balding my entire life.

Alot of guys have really good hair diameter and wave w/limited lifetime balding - those guys I would recommend hair restoration for.  If I was younger w/the same genetics and started my restoration in the 2000's vs 1990 - I would have simply chosen 2-3 strip surgeries to get the most bang for my buck.  Still - most of my surgeries were done in the 90's and were luckily small procedures.

If I had more self esteem in my early 20's I would have waited much longer to consider hair restoration.  But I personally don't regret it.  I've had hair my entire life & for me it was worth it over the long haul.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by jjsrader

[yesplease]

8 hours ago, jjsrader said:

I'm 53 - I have good coverage throughout.  When my hair is cut to the proper length and styled properly I look like I have a mature hairline w/no bald spot.   I have very fine hair and very straight hair.  Every male member on both sides of my family after age 30 was/is NW 6 or NW 7.

I had 100 and 120 grafts (minigrafts) done in Dec. '90 and Jan '91 by Leavitt.  I had 400 and 700 grafts (minigrafts) done in '94 & '95 by Pomerantz.  I had 2250 micrografts done by Feller in '04   All of this work was done in the frontal 1/3rd.

I had 4500 micrografts done by Soni & 500 FUE done in same session in '17.  400 grafts (200 on each side) to do temple points & 4600 from hairline all the way to crown.

Been on minox (now oral for 2+ years) for 25+ years.  Been on proscar and now dutasteride (Avodart) since '97 and '03 respectively.  Been on Nizoral 2% 2X's per week for 15+ years.  400+ diode laser helmet now for 2.5 years+

I'd say my density is about 40% of what I used to have - good overall coverage w/no bald spot.  I'd like to FUE out (maybe 2-3K grafts left) in the next 3 years w/surgery next year and in '23.  Will eventually put alot of beard hair into the worst spots of my scars.

Can't wear my hair short - but never really did anyways in the back.  Sometimes when I'm wearing a hat and my hair is pushed to the left or right in the back you can see a bare spot or two - but 99% of the time it's not noticeable w/a regular haircut on the sides and back.

I do all the medical therapy to keep my existing hair (and donor hair) healthy - it's really worked well but once you commit you can never stop.  I would be a NW 7 by now without any medical hair therapy.  Without hair restoration I would be a solid NW5  So nothing is perfect.  I didn't really start losing my mid-vertex and crown until around 2011 when I was in my mid 40's

With a good thickening shampoo and mousse and blow dry - my hair looks really good.  That being written, I don't recommend hair restoration surgery.  If you are destined to be very bald and have fine hair - genetics will win over 30-50 years - everytime.  I knew I would need multiple surgeries over the years when I saw all my relatives radically balding my entire life.

Alot of guys have really good hair diameter and wave w/limited lifetime balding - those guys I would recommend hair restoration for.  If I was younger w/the same genetics and started my restoration in the 2000's vs 1990 - I would have simply chosen 2-3 strip surgeries to get the most bang for my buck.  Still - most of my surgeries were done in the 90's and were luckily small procedures.

If I had more self esteem in my early 20's I would have waited much longer to consider hair restoration.  But I personally don't regret it.  I've had hair my entire life & for me it was worth it over the long haul.

 

 

Thank you so much for sharing your story and perspective. It’s very helpful. 

I’m at a crossroads, and will likely have to decide soon if I want to go down the surgical route or shave down/let nature take its course.

I’m only a NW3-4 at this time, and I feel I have some favorable hair characteristics, and I am already in my 40s .... but my situation is complicated by the fact that I can’t tolerate finasteride. 

Do you have any pics that you’d be comfortable sharing? It’s always interesting to actually see what is achievable over the long-term for someone who is destined to be a high NW.