Dr. Wong 4476 Grafts

[TheEmperor]

Please check out the pictures in my blog (link below).

 

First, let me say that Hasson and Wong are a top notch organization. They were on a very short list of doctors. I chose them primarily because of the high graft counts they typically pull, and also because of their exclusive use of the smallest grafts for naturalness. As a NW5, I knew that I would need all the grafts I could get.

 

Also, I feel better about my appearance than I did before the procedure. This is not necessarily the same thing as thinking my hair looks good, but having hair on top improves my self image and helps me avoid the "bald guy" stigma. I think it has improved how people perceive me -- in general people are nicer and I am not invisible to younger people.

 

I am glad I got the procedure and Im not sure another doctor could have done a better job than Dr. Wong.

 

That said, I have some mixed feelings about the result. Having seen all the amazing results on this site, I believe there are a few things that could have turned out better.

 

Given 4500 grafts, I think Dr. Wong employed a very good strategy. The hair angles forward and layers on itself. If he had gone lower in the front, there would be less hair on top and might look imbalanced. While the hairline design is not perfect, I think there is a good bit of wisdom built into it. Now onto the problems.

 

 

The problems are two fold: Hairline density and scar width.

 

The density in the hairline (perimeter of the front) is very low (see photos). I think that the large number of "1s" used in the first centimeter of hairline had a lower than expected yield, while the interior grafts appear to have grown well. If this was not a yield problem, doctor Wong should have planted at a higher density, IMO. Hairline counts show ~20-25 hairs cm^2.

 

The reality I learned is that the down time, the interruption to job and social life while healing is VERY DAMAGING. I cant keep going back to shave down and address the hairline.

 

The bigger problem, which may be out of Dr. Wongs control, is the width of the scar. It is already 3-4mm throughout the length -- looks as wide as some of the 3 strip veterans.

 

While I originally thought I would have a large donor supply, now I realize that my donor will be limited by the ability to keep a passable scar.

 

This changes things. If the scar goes any wider, I may be in the unfortunate position that it will be visible despite any efforts to conceal it.

 

Thus, I am conflicted on how to proceed. The "hairline" needs more hair, but if I go back for another procedure, I would not expect more than 2000 grafts. I am not sure this would make a huge difference. And at the risk of a wider scar, plus the additional downtime (plus more money out of pocket), makes it a gamble, IMO.

 

If Dr Wong cuts them in the same way, and there are a large number of 1s in the front, that have less then perfect yield, I have to wonder if perhaps going to a clinic with a different "philosophy" on graft cutting (that also employs MFUs), might give me a better hairline and density. Lets say insted of shaving off a small "one" into its own graft, another clinic might keep it part of a multi FU to be used interior. Thus the perimeter ends up with less 1s, is less see through, and overall density is higher. This is basically Pats pizza argument. Hindsight tells me that for someone whose hairs are not thick, a large number of 1s is not beneficial.

 

[i have the graft breakdown written down somewhere, I will post them later, but I remember there being a faily high % of 1s compared to some other docs.]

 

Anyway, here are the results. I am trying to figure out what to do next. I have told myself it may be best to do nothing despite the feeling that the hairline is sub-par.

[thanatopsis_awry]

Hmmm. I'll start out by saying what I'd end up saying at the end -- I think you're one, relatively small session away from getting the "density" you're after. The 2k figure you mention, if put into your hairline, particularly the frontal zone, should give you a pretty good perceived-density, IMHO, especially since you have a really good foundation throughout the rest of your frontal 1/3rd and top.

 

The perceived-density that HTs give are delicate, if not fickle; once you reach the point of optimal grafts/cm2 to get your look, even if you have *just* enough, your hair can look mint.

 

I think your result looks pretty good, all in all. You had a solid chunk of baldness to cover, and while 4500 grafts is a good number, it's still a bit shy of that "sweet spot" I think you'd need to get the look you're after.

 

Your hair looks best in the pics where you did a quasi-combover, but I'm not sure you're relegated to that. If you get a good stylist to delicately layer your hair, texturizing the tips, I would think you could play off a fresh style where you comb the hair forward and work in some wax or clay for added texture throughout.

 

When you mention using MFUs or DFUs...do you actually mean *in* your hairline itself? I'm not sure of a clinic you'd be interested in who would do this.

 

I would weigh the degree and extent of the "annoyance" you will feel if you simply never make a change to your hair from here on out, vs. the "annoyance" of going through another, over the backdrop of the satisfaction and life-improvement that "2k" will do for you. One is, perhaps, an absolute, the other more intense, yet shortlived. Are you set on 2k? I realize your scar isn't ideal, but I'd still think you could safely squeeze more; curious what Hasson or Wong would ultimately say in regard to that.

 

Also, re: your scar. From the pics it looks like you have really low density in that entire region of your scalp. Was this always so, and the scar exacerbated things?

 

I would get a really good cut, apply some top-notch styling product, and see how you look. What do you estimate your yield at, btw? Have you looked into H+W evaluating you? I seem to recall them having a "growth guarantee" type of policy.

[Raphael84]

Emp,

 

Primarily, great write up explaining both the pros and cons regarding your procedure and your eventual results, but also detailing the other experiences that you met along the way.

 

Viewing your images, I would say that you have undergone a tremendous visual transformation. In various photos, with the more generous styles your hair stands up. Having said that, your density issues are not unfounded. You express most concern quite naturally, regarding your hairline. However if the density was higher in other areas, maybe this would assist and possibly end your other worry, your scar.

 

Why are you with the understanding that you will not be able to reach more than 2000 grafts? Is this Dr Wongs prognosis? Obviously considering your experiences and thoughts regarding the downtime of a HT, you would be somewhat reluctant to undergo a second, yet with your questions, it is obviously on your mind. Have you expressed your concerns to Dr Wong at all? With a second HT, your hairline density issues could be solved, along with a denser appearance in other areas or attention to your crown (obviously depending on donor options).

 

I too would be somewhat dissapointed with the hairline if this was not an initial plan, whilst still maintaing the belief that you have undergone a great transformation. Maybe this is the possible "complication" of a famous H&W one pass procedure (in no way am I "dissing" H&W, for sure they are amongst the world leaders in HT procedures and their consistant results are indisputable, if I saw myself as a candidate it would interest me hugely).

 

Your first stop surely needs to be addressing your concerns with your Dr and evaluating his feedback. On the positive side, you are in a far superior position hair wise, than pre op, and your journey can still achieve greater success'! Good luck!

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by thanatopsis_awry:

Hmmm. I'll start out by saying what I'd end up saying at the end -- I think you're one, relatively small session away from getting the "density" you're after. The 2k figure you mention, if put into your hairline, particularly the frontal zone, should give you a pretty good perceived-density, IMHO, especially since you have a really good foundation throughout the rest of your frontal 1/3rd and top.

 

The perceived-density that HTs give are delicate, if not fickle; once you reach the point of optimal grafts/cm2 to get your look, even if you have *just* enough, your hair can look mint.

 

I think your result looks pretty good, all in all. You had a solid chunk of baldness to cover, and while 4500 grafts is a good number, it's still a bit shy of that "sweet spot" I think you'd need to get the look you're after.

 

Your hair looks best in the pics where you did a quasi-combover, but I'm not sure you're relegated to that. If you get a good stylist to delicately layer your hair, texturizing the tips, I would think you could play off a fresh style where you comb the hair forward and work in some wax or clay for added texture throughout.

 

When you mention using MFUs or DFUs...do you actually mean *in* your hairline itself? I'm not sure of a clinic you'd be interested in who would do this.

 

I would weigh the degree and extent of the "annoyance" you will feel if you simply never make a change to your hair from here on out, vs. the "annoyance" of going through another, over the backdrop of the satisfaction and life-improvement that "2k" will do for you. One is, perhaps, an absolute, the other more intense, yet shortlived. Are you set on 2k? I realize your scar isn't ideal, but I'd still think you could safely squeeze more; curious what Hasson or Wong would ultimately say in regard to that.

 

Also, re: your scar. From the pics it looks like you have really low density in that entire region of your scalp. Was this always so, and the scar exacerbated things?

 

I would get a really good cut, apply some top-notch styling product, and see how you look. What do you estimate your yield at, btw? Have you looked into H+W evaluating you? I seem to recall them having a "growth guarantee" type of policy.

 

I spoke with H&W extensively after the procedure. I spoke with Joe many times and Dr Wong once in the period around 1 year out, and they have suggested an approach which boils down to shaving the front again, covering the crown and touching up the front. I do not want to say anything negative about them, and may return to them for #2, but suffice to say there was not a meeting of the minds regarding all things (at this point in time).

 

I am not trying to air any dirty laundry or point fingers. The results are what they are, I am showing them, and seeking feedback from other people on how to proceed.

 

Regarding the Multi FUs, I am not suggesting they are put in the hairline. What I am saying is that cutting more 1's will create a larger zone of low density in the perimeter. For people with thick hairs, this may be necessary for a smooth hairline, but for people with finer hairs, a large zone of 1's robs from density (may be complete overkill) and ultimately impacts yield if they dont grow to the same %.

 

Hasson and Wong cut grafts the way they cut grafts. Their techs are trained and thats the way they do it. If _my_ singles are living in the 50-60% range based on the way they cut and plant them, that has got to be cause to pause and reflect on what I should do for #2.

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by Raphael84:

Emp,

 

Primarily, great write up explaining both the pros and cons regarding your procedure and your eventual results, but also detailing the other experiences that you met along the way.

 

Viewing your images, I would say that you have undergone a tremendous visual transformation. In various photos, with the more generous styles your hair stands up. Having said that, your density issues are not unfounded. You express most concern quite naturally, regarding your hairline. However if the density was higher in other areas, maybe this would assist and possibly end your other worry, your scar.

 

Why are you with the understanding that you will not be able to reach more than 2000 grafts? Is this Dr Wongs prognosis? Obviously considering your experiences and thoughts regarding the downtime of a HT, you would be somewhat reluctant to undergo a second, yet with your questions, it is obviously on your mind. Have you expressed your concerns to Dr Wong at all? With a second HT, your hairline density issues could be solved, along with a denser appearance in other areas or attention to your crown (obviously depending on donor options).

 

I too would be somewhat dissapointed with the hairline if this was not an initial plan, whilst still maintaing the belief that you have undergone a great transformation. Maybe this is the possible "complication" of a famous H&W one pass procedure (in no way am I "dissing" H&W, for sure they are amongst the world leaders in HT procedures and their consistant results are indisputable, if I saw myself as a candidate it would interest me hugely).

 

Your first stop surely needs to be addressing your concerns with your Dr and evaluating his feedback. On the positive side, you are in a far superior position hair wise, than pre op, and your journey can still achieve greater success'! Good luck!

 

Thanks. The 2000 number was my semi-conservative estimate based on numbers I have seen from other patients on their second pass. Dr. Wong/ Joe did not give any estimates for number 2, and did not express any enthusiasm or pessimism about potential harvest.

 

The photos where my hair is standing up are an illusion. Mouse holds the hair up, but from the side I look bald because the hair is not layering on top anything in front of it.

 

I just wanted to show a variety of pics, good and bad.

[hdude46]

I think for H&W, this is a below average result. With that said, another surgery should get you where you want. H&W will most likely be able to pull a lot more grafts than 2,000, and also excise the scar to make it smaller. SMG doesn't require you to shave down, but that may limit the number of grafts they are able to harvest. I agree with thana, you are once procedure away from a good looking mop. You dont have any loss beloe the crown so you should be able to fill the entire top. good luck

[imissthebarber]

The Emp

 

I'm sorry to hear that this hasn't worked out how you'd hoped. Have you consulted with any other docs? You haven't got anything to lose and it would be wise to make sure you are really comfortable with any forward steps before you take them. Like you said the down time can be really tough - much more than people expect before they hit the chair.

 

Btw how old are you, and has your hair loss stabilised? I'm asking because I'm trying to figure whether FUE only might be a good policy for the future. Pro's are no risk of scar getting worse Con's are there might not be enough hair (this relates more to covering possible future loss rather than beefing up the frontal area.)

 

Also some other docs don't require you to shave the recipient which would likely improve your experience of the downtime for strip (considerably) or FUE (after several weeks when the hair grows back to 1.5 inches needed to cover your current scar).

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by hdude46:

I think for H&W, this is a below average result. With that said, another surgery should get you where you want. H&W will most likely be able to pull a lot more grafts than 2,000, and also excise the scar to make it smaller. SMG doesn't require you to shave down, but that may limit the number of grafts they are able to harvest. I agree with thana, you are once procedure away from a good looking mop. You dont have any loss beloe the crown so you should be able to fill the entire top. good luck

Yes, assuming everything grows.

 

It seems, IMO, that the problem is with the small singles in the hairline.

 

If you look at the analysis pics, you will see that inside the outer centimeter, the hair is growing well. This shows to me its not a physiology problem. I am guessing it has something to do with the way the singles were cut or placed.

 

If I go back to H&W, and the problem was a result of how singles were handled, I could find myself with a sub-par result (again).

 

I need to enter a dialogue about what happened before jumping back in the chair. I want to know why the front cm is so thin, and why the scar is so wide.

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by imissthebarber:

The Emp

 

I'm sorry to hear that this hasn't worked out how you'd hoped. Have you consulted with any other docs? You haven't got anything to lose and it would be wise to make sure you are really comfortable with any forward steps before you take them. Like you said the down time can be really tough - much more than people expect before they hit the chair.

 

Btw how old are you, and has your hair loss stabilised? I'm asking because I'm trying to figure whether FUE only might be a good policy for the future. Pro's are no risk of scar getting worse Con's are there might not be enough hair (this relates more to covering possible future loss rather than beefing up the frontal area.)

 

Also some other docs don't require you to shave the recipient which would likely improve your experience of the downtime for strip (considerably) or FUE (after several weeks when the hair grows back to 1.5 inches needed to cover your current scar).

 

I'm in late 30s. Loss has stabilized. I dont think FUE is an option now; I am not going to dice with anything that would compromise yield, although I recognize it may be of use in the future for touch ups (when density is not the goal).

[Ventuoguy]

Emporer-

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to how Dr. Wong "cuts his grafts." There should be no variability in how the grafts are cut. The follicular unit is to be respected. Microscopic inspection and dissection should dictate the follicular units and you should have your 'ones' 'twos' 'threes' and 'fours' depending on what was contained within your strip. I am not aware that H&W violates this principle. Most of the 'ones' should be placed in the hairline to soften it. That was the problem with the old pluggy grafts-too many hairs/graft in the hairline giving the doll's hair appearance. Perhaps H&W might realize during the dissection and placement of your grafts that it would be better to cut some of the multi-hair FU's into single hair grafts. I believe they would have consulted you during your procedure to alert you of this recommendation?

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by Ventuoguy:

Emporer-

 

I'm not sure what you mean when you refer to how Dr. Wong "cuts his grafts." There should be no variability in how the grafts are cut. The follicular unit is to be respected. Microscopic inspection and dissection should dictate the follicular units and you should have your 'ones' 'twos' 'threes' and 'fours' depending on what was contained within your strip. I am not aware that H&W violates this principle. Most of the 'ones' should be placed in the hairline to soften it. That was the problem with the old pluggy grafts-too many hairs/graft in the hairline giving the doll's hair appearance. Perhaps H&W might realize during the dissection and placement of your grafts that it would be better to cut some of the multi-hair FU's into single hair grafts. I believe they would have consulted you during your procedure to alert you of this recommendation?

 

Ive been on this forum for a few years and there are plenty of threads that debate what defines FUs. There are different philosophies in cutting them.

 

Go back and search for Pat's (moderators) arguments about slicing a pizza, circa 2005-2006.

 

I think there are definitely differnt philosophies on graft cutting. Some equally esteemed physicians, including Shapiro, use double FUs (say a 2+1 or 3+1), internally, instead of slicing them into separate grafts. Other docs might view these as single, larger FUs.

 

I am wondering if for a person whose hair is not thick, it might be best to preserve some of these as DFUs if there are already enough singles.

 

I am just trying to reason out the best approach for #2. Maybe Wong planted thin in the front and intended to go back in another pass. Maybe thats the best way to do it. I just dont know.

[TheEmperor]

Everyone:

 

I am detecting some backlash towards me, perhaps a belief that I am somehow attacking H&W.

 

Please read the threads carefully. I am soliciting advice on how to best proceed for #2 (if at all), and am asking what people think about the result.

[Jotronic]

The Emperor,

 

I understand some of your points and as you know from our previous discussions last year we WILL do what is right by you. I think it is imperative however that some of your stated observations from the procedure be addressed and clarified.

 

"The density in the hairline (perimeter of the front) is very low (see photos). I think that the large number of "1s" used in the first centimeter of hairline had a lower than expected yield, while the interior grafts appear to have grown well."

 

You are correct in that the density is low however based on discussions (that I am not at liberty to divulge publicly) this was not something you were entirely against as a final result.

 

When you look at the 2 day post-op photo you posted in your blog one can clearly see the jagged low density design of the hairline. This makes up approximately the first 1cm of your new hairline.

 

 

7 days post-op you still have some scabbing but it does indeed look more dense than your final and current result...

 

 

But if we look at the 9 day post-op photo things take a dramatic turn. The density is from what I can tell almost identical to the density you have now. This is a situation that I have only recently begun speaking to patients about. The perception of density immediately post-op vs. final result. It is my observation that the scabbing from a procedure causes the density to appear higher than it really is. This makes sense because you are not seeing only hair and scalp but rather hair, a small scab at the base of each hair and less actual scalp than without the scabs. In my estimation the scabbing that is present can reduce the amount of visible scalp roughly 50% before the scabs actually fall off and I think your 2 day post-op photo compared to your 9 day post-op photo illustrates this issue perfectly. Yes, you may have shed a few hairs by the 9 day post-op point but hardly enough to make this kind of difference.

 

 

"If Dr Wong cuts them in the same way, and there are a large number of 1s in the front, that have less then perfect yield, I have to wonder if perhaps going to a clinic with a different "philosophy" on graft cutting (that also employs MFUs), might give me a better hairline and density."

 

The "same way" would be as the FU's occur naturally, TE. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise but your graft count reveals that you had a high average for singles but not outside of average (if that makes sense). I'll post the numbers if you wish but will not till I have your permission.

 

On one page of your blog you state the following...

 

"The technicians worked in pairs, one left, one right. They swapped throughout the day after shifts of a couple hours. I can only attribute the strong growth in the front quadrant to a master tech who did not damage as many hairs. Cutting may have something to do with it as well, as I am not privy to their graft supply pipeline."

 

To be clear you did not have "pairs" of technicians placing grafts. You had only three and they did not rotate in and out. This is stated in the surgical record. I think you may be confusing this with how they would take a break while Dr. Wong would come back in to make more incisions. The cutting issue is one that we take just as seriously as other aspects of the procedure and we have protocols in place to prevent damage during the cutting process.

 

Regarding your donor scar, well, that is something that is unfortunate but not impossible to fix. Why it is 3mm to 4mm is not known but by no means is it horrible when comparing averages of our results or to those of anyone else for that matter.

 

From what I can see you appear to have some pretty good growth overall. You had a substantial amount of real estate to cover and I think that for the most part this was accomplished well. To put things in perspective you had 4476 grafts placed into a NW6 pattern. Yours was a case designed for coverage but for real density a second pass is always required when dealing with areas of loss as large as yours and fine donor hair. Is the hairline what it should be? No, I don't believe it is but it certainly is not something that cannot be improved upon. Again, as I stated before, we stand behind our patients and will bend over backwards to make sure they are happy in the end. With you, we will not take a different approach in this regard. Call me at the office and we can discuss how to improve upon your current results and get you where you want to be.

[Severn]

Originally posted by TheEmperor:

Everyone:

 

Please read the threads carefully. I am soliciting advice on how to best proceed for #2 (if at all),

 

I would probably ask H&W if they are willing to make good on repairing the work. If not I would probably consult another top coalition doc.

 

and am asking what people think about the result.

 

I would give it a C. An excellent scar result is usually 1-2 cm, but 3-4 is not uncommon from what I've read. However the frontal area and hairline are definitely sub-par. But I do see some pics where where you can comb it to look pretty decent.

 

That being said, No coalition doc is going to bat a 1000.

[hdude46]

Joe, I have to disagree with you on only a small and minor point. Was this guy really a NW 6? He had absolutely no loss below the crown and his pattern is similar to shuffle's. I would argue he was a nw4 or 5, bur def not a 6.

[hairshare]

Before I give my 2 cents here, I'd like to state the fact that I am a former patient (and a very happy patient) of Dr. Wong. To say that my appearance has changed because of Dr. Wong would be an understatement. So onwards....

 

I'd like to start off by asking Severn a question. Severn, what ever crack you are smoking, where can I find it? Dude, repair work? Are you kidding me? This guy's result is "at worst" pretty damn good if not damn near great. How can you call something like this repair work? As an experiment I showed these results to my folks who have no idea about the dynamics of hair transplantation. I asked them simply what do you think of this result? Mind you my father has a very critical eye. To the untrained eye they both thought that these results were fantastic. I think its within the confines of these forums where we nit pick at every little thing. I think this is a testament to Dr. Wong's superb skills when a result like this begins to get scrutinized.

 

Believe me, if this was done by any other doctor besides H&W, everyone here would be chiming in how impressive these results are. Without throwing anyone under the bus, take a look at this Feller patient's results: http://hairtransplantnetwork.c...opyID=1057&WebID=174

Notice the middle pictures of his hairline in the month 11 section. Look better than this patient? Not to me. Yet this person posted a positive blog extolling the virtues of his Dr so everyone chimes in aggreeing. I have no doubt in my mind that if this post started with a positive spin with the patient saying how much he loved his results, you would not see negative comments, let alone the ridiculous comment of calling this a "repair job".

 

Also, I have to comment on the issue of shaving for surgery. Guys, what is the big deal with shaving? It is temporary and it helps not only the doctor but the patient obtain a better result. Think about it, you are getting SURGERY. Why would you not want to offer the easiest path for the doctor to do his job in order to give the patient the best possible result? It makes no sense to me........Sorry for the rant but it breaks my heart to see the anti H&W vultures swoop in at the first sign of something wrong.

 

TheEmporers, the bottom line is this: You have a great result which will only get better in your second round of surgery that will be performed not because H&W has to do it for you, but because they care about you as they care about all their patients. And I am sure your scar will be better from the second round as well. Just be open to getting these procedures done.

[TheEmperor]

You are correct in that the density is low however based on discussions (that I am not at liberty to divulge publicly) this was not something you were entirely against as a final result.

You had calls from me from 5 months through 12 months where you admitted I was a "slow grower" and urged me to wait a year for the result. I was patient and waited til the one year mark. My primary objection was lack of density. (Edit: I remember at the 10 month mark I was ready to schedule #2, but you asked me to wait a full year. We spoke maybe 1-2 times after the year mark but I had paused to reconsider my options..)

 

When you suggested the area could be shaven and replanted in a second pass, I was definitely upset, and inquired if planting without shaving was possible. You said that in some cases with only a small number of grafts, you dont require shaving, but shaving was indicated here.

 

From the beginning, through the end, density of my result has been my primary concern. Based on the planting pattern I see in many of your patients, I was not expecting to have to do the front again. I thought I might get a chance to LOWER it or bring the sides forward, but never thought it would have to be replanted.

 

You did indicate a desire for Dr. Wong to do right by all his patients, myself included. I am not disputing that. Frankly, a financial concession doesnt exactly offset the inconvenience of having to go through another ugly duckling.

 

When you look at the 2 day post-op photo you posted in your blog one can clearly see the jagged low density design of the hairline. This makes up approximately the first 1cm of your new hairline.

I suppose I will have to do a complete close up photo-accounting of the graft sites in the hairline. The close up pictures are adequate to show some gaps and areas of thinner growth. The front quadrant has a higher density. Take from this what you will.

 

Look at the doubles behind them, you see they are packed together tighter. Contrast this to the post op photos that show closer graft spacing in the hairline. I still believe the 1s yielded low. This is not the end of the world. Shit happens. You guys get stellar results most of the time.

 

The "same way" would be as the FU's occur naturally, TE. I'm not sure why you would think otherwise but your graft count reveals that you had a high average for singles but not outside of average (if that makes sense). I'll post the numbers if you wish but will not till I have your permission.

Yes, my distribution is in line with typical _H&W_ distribution. In order to get the best result for myself, I HAVE to ask if maybe those docs using DFUs and finding less 1s know something that could benefit me.

 

 

To be clear you did not have "pairs" of technicians placing grafts. You had only three and they did not rotate in and out. This is stated in the surgical record. I think you may be confusing this with how they would take a break while Dr. Wong would come back in to make more incisions.

I was in the chair for 11 hours. There were more than 3 technicians in the planting rotation. I was of the impression that there were three shifts. Perhaps they swapped duties with some other people on the team? I'm sorry we are going to have to agree to disagree on this.

 

Regarding your donor scar, well, that is something that is unfortunate but not impossible to fix. Why it is 3mm to 4mm is not known but by no means is it horrible when comparing averages of our results or to those of anyone else for that matter.

Agree it is not horrible, but neither is it good. Certainly you can understand my concern about keeping it as small or smaller in a follow up. Usually the scar gets bigger each time the doc goes in. I do not attribute this to any failing of Doctor Wong, but I feel like I'm dicing with something dangerous (were I to seek another round) and would like an understanding of what he can do to keep it small or smaller.

 

That said, any of this could have happened with any doctor I had gone to. Dr Wong could have performed the most brilliant surgery with what he had to work with.

 

Beyond proof of any graft sites not growing, we are talking about subjective issues here. Does the end result stack up? I conversed with you many times before the procedure, had an in person consultation where I pressed Dr. Wong to say how my result would compare to yours. He said he thought I was going to have a better result than you. I thought this was very realistic given my baldness pattern is less, I have full temple points and no recession down the back. Granted I have only half the grafts as you, so the verdict is still out if this can be achieved.

 

To put things in perspective you had 4476 grafts placed into a NW6 pattern. Yours was a case designed for coverage but for real density a second pass is always required when dealing with areas of loss as large as yours and fine donor hair.

I am a NW5. Temple points, high sides, no recession down the back.

 

After the inperson consult, I asked you about my donor hair quality; you said it was listed between medium and fine in the chart.

 

But actually I agree with your current assesment, the hair on the sides is fine.

[hairshare]

TE, I have to chime in about your comment regarding scars getting worse with corresponding procedures. Actually I don't think this is true. My second scar from Dr. Wong is already looking a lot better than my first one. Dr. Wong did remove a lot less tissue the second time around which explains why the scar is thinner but I just want to assure you, just because you have a second surgery doesn't mean your scar will be worse off than the first time.

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by hairshare:

TE, I have to chime in about your comment regarding scars getting worse with corresponding procedures. Actually I don't think this is true. My second scar from Dr. Wong is already looking a lot better than my first one. Dr. Wong did remove a lot less tissue the second time around which explains why the scar is thinner but I just want to assure you, just because you have a second surgery doesn't mean your scar will be worse off than the first time.

 

Thanks.

[TheEmperor]

Originally posted by Severn:

 

I would give it a C. An excellent scar result is usually 1-2 cm, but 3-4 is not uncommon from what I've read. However the frontal area and hairline are definitely sub-par. But I do see some pics where where you can comb it to look pretty decent.

 

That being said, No coalition doc is going to bat a 1000.

 

Yes, this is how I feel about it.

[hairshare]

Anytime my friend I know how you feel and where you are coming from. Just remember this; you look a lot better than you did compared to where you started from.

 

Also, please keep this in mind; when it's all said and done, you will be extremely happy that you had this procedure and that you chose the right doctor by choosing Dr. Wong. I have no doubts about it. I may be biased in my view but having gone through certain experiences in my life, some medical related, and others not, I can say with 100% certainty that H&W genuinely cares. When you're happy they are just as happy. And if you're not happy they will work tirelessly to make sure that you end up happy. You are in good hands and I honestly can't say that any other clinic would care for you to the degree that H&W cares about their patients.

[Forrest Gump]

TheEmperor, your after results look better than your before pictures. However, I agree with you that a little more dense hairline would be nice.

 

I am sure a second relatively smaller procedure would give you a denser hairline. I understand your concern in not wanting to shave again. I believe there are quite a few reputed doctors who don't shave the recipient area. Do some background research, and you can locate a doctor whose style you like, and who would be willing to work without shaving.

[Bill - Seemiller]

TheEmperor,

 

First I want to thank you for taking the time to share your experience in photos. I have to admit, watching you allude to your less than optimal hair transplant for years on this forum without giving details made me very curious. Now that you've shared your results, allow me to make a few observations.

 

First and foremost, I will admit upfront that I would not be happy if this was my final result. However, given the number of grafts in such a bald area, I'd consider this more of a work in progress. Honestly, 4500 folliculuar units on a Norwood 5A/6 is not going to promote both adequate coverage and density. Hopefully you weren't under the impression that a single procedure was going to give you a full head of hair. In my own experience, I wasn't genuinely happy until after I already received 7550 grafts, and even then, I still wanted more density.

 

Whether or not every single follicular unit grew, I don't know. However, in comparing all the photos, it does appear that the density in the surgical pictures 9 days post-op are in line with the density of the actual result.In order to determine whether or not you've had optimal growth, I'd suggest an in person consult with Dr. Wong.

 

Obviously, if you proceed with a second procedure, you will have to go through the inconveniences of surgery, healing, potential shock loss, etc. yet again. However, guys with extensive baldness like you and me usually need 2 or 3 procedures before we can truly be happy with the result.

 

The only thing that concerns me is that while your scar looks fine in my opinion, your donor area looks a little thin in several of the photos you posted showing the scar. I wonder if that may be why your scar may be showing through. I posted one of them below.

 

 

Ultimately, how you proceed is totally up to you. But I trust that Dr. Wong can help you get the head of hair you want. Currently, I'd consider your result adequate for the number of grafts you received and a work in progress.

 

Good luck making a decision on what to do,

 

Bill

[Mp96]

Emperor,

 

 

Was the scar there previously? I would not expect such a scar from that clinic.. I would not call that a fine scar in my opinion.

[Ventuoguy]

Emporer- Was that a tricophytic closure?