Frontal zone - What level of density is attainable / acceptable?

[nafta]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out if my expectations of what can be done are reasonable - I've seen some great results on here, but would like some general info on what is reasonable to expect.

 

Natively I'm a norwood 2 maybe edgin a 2.5.

 

Looking at the attached diagram that outlines the zones - 1 2 3 etc:

If you were to focus only on zones 1 and 2 - how many hairs per cm is possible? Hiw many look natural?

 

I've been told my donor hair is dense - 85 to 100 hairs per cm. - but what can a good ht achieve, what would look 'normal'?

 

Also what physical area are zones 1 and 2 this - ive actually a smallish head so I'm guessing between 20 and 30 cm2 but I'm not sure. 3k fus would mean 100 to 200 hairs in this region depending on the hairs per fu. Hiw many would typically be used?

 

Any and all input is appreciated!

[hsrp10]

Here is a very detailed read on density in the various zones related to hair restoration by Dr. Lorenzo.

http://www.injertocapilar.com/English/density.htm

 

He talks about zone A (first 2cm) in particular:

When this area is well defined, the look of the person facing us is centered on our facial features, not on our hair. It is for this reason that in these two centimeters we have to implant with large densities. Our advice is to always aim for 45 to 70 units per cm2 (in exceptional cases even more) given that we can only use follicular units of 1 or maximum 2 hairs per unit in the second or third line.

 

Based on my experience and looking at hundreds of results on this forum and others if you have thick coarse hair 50 grafts/cm2 should give great dense coverage, those with fine caliber hair like myself need to shoot higher for 60 grafts/cm2 or slightly more.

The zones behind the front can have lesser density as you go back (also explained in the link).

[nafta]

Here is a very detailed read on density in the various zones related to hair restoration by Dr. Lorenzo.

density

 

He talks about zone A (first 2cm) in particular:

When this area is well defined, the look of the person facing us is centered on our facial features, not on our hair. It is for this reason that in these two centimeters we have to implant with large densities. Our advice is to always aim for 45 to 70 units per cm2 (in exceptional cases even more) given that we can only use follicular units of 1 or maximum 2 hairs per unit in the second or third line.

 

Based on my experience and looking at hundreds of results on this forum and others if you have thick coarse hair 50 grafts/cm2 should give great dense coverage, those with fine caliber hair like myself need to shoot higher for 60 grafts/cm2 or slightly more.

The zones behind the front can have lesser density as you go back (also explained in the link).

 

Thanks, that's very informative. So the 3k graft number in this region makes sense, he's estimating 2.8k. I have undergone two procedures previously - 500 when I was 25, and 1700 2 years ago. I've been recently quoted that I need about 1500 to thicken it up. I'm wondering though if the act of repeated procedures to get density results in a significant percentage of transection - which would not happen in a single session.

 

So by theses estimares if I did have the 1500 extra I should have a dense hairline? I will try post pictures later if I can take good enough ones to show what I'm starting with.

[Sean]

Some docs claim 65cm2 but they can end up damaging density if transplanted into native areas. Imo- density placement It is all dependent on hair caliber and texture to determine what can be done. Proper tools need to be used too. Proper staff need to be used. Techs and nurses should not perform actions that are deemed surgery. The industry is dangerous, handful of docs are patient caring and ethicc cautious. Thats the truth. This goes for docs that are part of some online organizations. Some lie to get you comfortable with the procedure or in their hands by making bogus claims. Be careful, imo manual extractions are probably better in the right hands.

[Slush]

I had 2500 grafts on my frontal third. My doc states that he aims for 50+ per cm^2, but I didn't ask specifically what he was​ able to achieve for me. He did shave my recipient area and transplanted as if I would I lose all native hair. Since this is baseline, I imagine he was in the area. Dr. Alexander has videos on YouTube addressing importance of density. It's one major reason I selected him for my HT. Density is important and any doc that isn't specific about it should cause concern.

[hsrp10]

Sean and Slush bring up some good points as well.

 

I know Dr. Keser in Turkey and one doc in CA (Baubac) achieve 65 grafts/cm2 or slightly higher, but the key factor is what is Nafta's hair caliber - or what is the person's own hair caliber who will undergo the procedure

 

Really cannot talk about recommended density numbers without mentioning (1) native hair caliber and (2) taking into consideration donor supply.

 

For dense results on a bald or very thin scalp where dense packing is warranted I like Dr. Erdogan and Dr. Keser as the FUE density kings and Dr. Hasson and Dr. Rahal for the FUT counterparts.

 

If going into existing native hair in follow-up procedures to tweak density, Dr. Konior's (and I believe Dr. Gabel's too) "stick and place" technique cannot be beat.

I've had multiple progressively smaller touchups with Dr. Konior and I never experienced any shockloss or transection whatsoever (2 FUT and 1 smaller FUE most recently).

 

Dr. Lorenzo, Dr. Bisanga, Dr Cooley, Dr Shapiro are also others that do excellent touchup procedures as well for density boosts.

[nafta]

Sean and Slush bring up some good points as well.

 

I know Dr. Keser in Turkey and one doc in CA (Baubac) achieve 65 grafts/cm2 or slightly higher, but the key factor is what is Nafta's hair caliber - or what is the person's own hair caliber who will undergo the procedure

 

Really cannot talk about recommended density numbers without mentioning (1) native hair caliber and (2) taking into consideration donor supply.

 

For dense results on a bald or very thin scalp where dense packing is warranted I like Dr. Erdogan and Dr. Keser as the FUE density kings and Dr. Hasson and Dr. Rahal for the FUT counterparts.

 

If going into existing native hair in follow-up procedures to tweak density, Dr. Konior's (and I believe Dr. Gabel's too) "stick and place" technique cannot be beat.

I've had multiple progressively smaller touchups with Dr. Konior and I never experienced any shockloss or transection whatsoever (2 FUT and 1 smaller FUE most recently).

 

Dr. Lorenzo, Dr. Bisanga, Dr Cooley, Dr Shapiro are also others that do excellent touchup procedures as well for density boosts.

 

 

My hair caliber is thick. I don't know the number but it's noticily thick as individual strands - on the back at least!

 

Right now I'm trying to decide between dr konior and Dr lupanzula. Both are coming in at a similar price, but I may have to wait 8 months longer for dr konior. I've not gotten info from Dr. bisanga yet.... given this is my intended last touch on my hairline and frontal region, is it better to hold oit for dr konior?

[Thomas2012]

My choice woutd be Dr Konior. He and his staff are nothing short of phenomenal. I recently had my second procedure done by him, third overall. It was to add density to my hairline. You have to keep in mind that even though you are a 2.5 or so now, you will continue to lose density on native hairs. If the doctor get you great density to start with, overtime your native hairs will fall out so I would plan on future procedures dependent on your future hair loss.

[Triple7]

I don't know much about Dr Lupanza but my advice would be to go visit Dr Konior or send him pictures and talk to him. If you feel that he is your best choice then I would make an appointment with him. In my opinion waiting a few more months is worth the trade off if you feel he is your best choice for the outcome you are looking for.

[gillenator]

Photos would definitely help. It's hard to provide estimates without knowing how much native hair that you currently have.

[ArochaHair]

The numbers you're reading about by doctors, and by forum members, are assuming bald scalp. You've already had surgery, assuming in the areas you're concerned with now, so increasing your existing density is a simple thing to do with a relatively small number of grafts. There is the point of diminishing returns to be aware of though. Once you get to the 50% mark of your original density you might see a reduced improvement that won't be as dramatic as your first two passes.

[Speegs]

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out if my expectations of what can be done are reasonable - I've seen some great results on here, but would like some general info on what is reasonable to expect.

 

Natively I'm a norwood 2 maybe edgin a 2.5.

 

Looking at the attached diagram that outlines the zones - 1 2 3 etc:

If you were to focus only on zones 1 and 2 - how many hairs per cm is possible? Hiw many look natural?

 

I've been told my donor hair is dense - 85 to 100 hairs per cm. - but what can a good ht achieve, what would look 'normal'?

 

Also what physical area are zones 1 and 2 this - ive actually a smallish head so I'm guessing between 20 and 30 cm2 but I'm not sure. 3k fus would mean 100 to 200 hairs in this region depending on the hairs per fu. Hiw many would typically be used?

 

Any and all input is appreciated!

It depends on too may things to say without more information, your hair type, existing density, existing hair loss etc.

 

To use myself as an example, I had a Norwood 3A pattern at the start of my transplant journey, and it ultimately took three procedures and 7000 plus grafts to recreate the frontal third, people with fine, dark hair and light skin require more grafts to create the illusion of density because they have more naturally occurring hair and scalp contrast than darker complected people.

[Slush]

it ultimately took three procedures and 7000 plus grafts to recreate the frontal third, .

 

 

7000 grafts for just the frontal third??? Do you have a thread with pics?

[Speegs]

7000 grafts for just the frontal third??? Do you have a thread with pics?

Indeed, but to be fair I think my non Gabel procedure underwhelmed in growth below the 90 percent mark...hard to say.

 

But yes, my fine dark hair and light skin lead to a stark contrast of the follicles and the scalp, forcing more grafts to up the appearance of density.

 

I've been very lucky that my hair loss seems to have been stunted and stalled by 11 years of finasteride use.

 

It failed to protect my diminishing hairline but has preserved the crown and mid scalp, giving me the luxury of tackling the frontal third with both barrels.

[Speegs]

7000 grafts for just the frontal third??? Do you have a thread with pics?

As for pics, I'm waiting for this third procedure to come in as i'm only 8 months post op. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to see some though.

[Slush]

I wish I had measured the area of my recipient region so I could calculate density. My frontal third was shaved and I was told, "completely transplanted", so that I would be "done forever". I had 2500 grafts, and the Doctor is well known for targeting and achieving a high density. 7000 or even 5000 just sounds incredible. I'm picturing impressive density even with your hair/skin contrast. At some point a certain density is the maximum achievable due to the tools in use with today's procedures.

 

Still learning here!

[Speegs]

I wish I had measured the area of my recipient region so I could calculate density. My frontal third was shaved and I was told, "completely transplanted", so that I would be "done forever". I had 2500 grafts, and the Doctor is well known for targeting and achieving a high density. 7000 or even 5000 just sounds incredible. I'm picturing impressive density even with your hair/skin contrast. At some point a certain density is the maximum achievable due to the tools in use with today's procedures.

 

Still learning here!

Indeed, if this latest round doesn't achieve the density we were seeking, I'm willing to concede we've done what we can with what we have to work with.

 

All this last round was for was to augment a couple of trouble spots that harsh light exposed and to give me even greater styling flexibility.

[Slush]

Can you send me a pm? The function isn't working for me on my phone or computer. (I've used it before. Odd.)

[Speegs]

Can you send me a pm? The function isn't working for me on my phone or computer. (I've used it before. Odd.)

Yep, check your in box in a few.

[Speegs]

Can you send me a pm? The function isn't working for me on my phone or computer. (I've used it before. Odd.)

Weird, is the message feature down? It won't let me compose a message to you from my laptop?

[gillenator]

See if a PM will go through to the moderator.