Senior Member ontop Posted July 21, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Not necessarily, some people are late growers, you got to give it the full 12/18 month's. before one can make a judgment but 12 months mark will be the mile stone. seems to be quite fashionable that people are judging there outcome after 6 months here lately, maybe because there is a spurt of HT patients online in seeing great gains in that small time, I don't know but everyone is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Tav1 Posted July 21, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Totally agree ontop. Not certain exactly how this sort of "herd mentality" into some alternate universe occurred, and I've even seen threads recently where people are getting second opinions after just 3-4 months. That is just lunacy. People need to stop feeding the beast here. I even got a bit sucked into the false accelerated timeline mentality and started to believe I was some sort of unique slow grower. Looking back, I see now that I actually fit comfortably within the established norm in terms of the growth/maturation timeline. IMHO - it's at 9 months where a HT patient should begin to feel as though they are starting to see where they'll end up - and that's with another full 9 months still to go to final result. Certainly in my case, it was months 7-9 that trumped the first six months combined in terms of visual result. People need to pump the brakes on this 6 month BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mosd Posted July 21, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Totally agree ontop. Not certain exactly how this sort of "herd mentality" into some alternate universe occurred, and I've even seen threads recently where people are getting second opinions after just 3-4 months. That is just lunacy. People need to stop feeding the beast here. I even got a bit sucked into the false accelerated timeline mentality and started to believe I was some sort of unique slow grower. Looking back, I see now that I actually fit comfortably within the established norm in terms of the growth/maturation timeline. IMHO - it's at 9 months where a HT patient should begin to feel as though they are starting to see where they'll end up - and that's with another full 9 months still to go to final result. Certainly in my case, it was months 7-9 that trumped the first six months combined in terms of visual result. People need to pump the brakes on this 6 month BS. thanks for sharing ur experience. Exactly what i needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Tav1 Posted July 21, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Take a look at my thread mosd - it was an ugly start to a great finish. And the journey was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Totally agree ontop. Not certain exactly how this sort of "herd mentality" into some alternate universe occurred, and I've even seen threads recently where people are getting second opinions after just 3-4 months. That is just lunacy. People need to stop feeding the beast here. I even got a bit sucked into the false accelerated timeline mentality and started to believe I was some sort of unique slow grower. Looking back, I see now that I actually fit comfortably within the established norm in terms of the growth/maturation timeline. IMHO - it's at 9 months where a HT patient should begin to feel as though they are starting to see where they'll end up - and that's with another full 9 months still to go to final result. Certainly in my case, it was months 7-9 that trumped the first six months combined in terms of visual result. People need to pump the brakes on this 6 month BS. First , the results posted by Doug are 7 month not 6 month. I know there are rare cases of slow growers but this is not my case because I no longer see fine hair coming out and also haven't seen any improvement since last month that means the growth has stopped. And even if there would be any improvement it would be minimal at this stage, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mosd Posted July 21, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Take a look at my thread mosd - it was an ugly start to a great finish. And the journey was worth it. just looked at your thread. You hade killer result at 6 month already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member n00b Posted July 21, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 This is my take on it, if I may.If this patient stays the same by month 12 to max 18 I would say considering there was hair already there I would say for 2900 grafts would be a sub par result. but saying that you also got to say there is still more time for growth & maturing to come for this particular case to improve somewhat, how much? its anyone's guess. You can clearly see there has been approvements from the start but looking at it right now seem to be a little short but I stress & we all seen it on the 11th hr things start to happen agin, so I guess time will tell & patients is key to this particular case. I agree with ontop. If there are no huge changes in the next 6-9 months, this result is sub par for 2900 grafts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 21, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Gotta disagree with the OP, he used up 500 grafts on the crown leaving only 2,500 to cover what seems like a large area. I'm sorry, but you are not going to achieve dense packing with that few grafts spread out. Agree with Doug that you are always going to get an aesthetic improvement, but not a full set of dense hair. Also agree that you need to also give the hairs a chance to mature. I think you would have been better served using all 3000 grafts on the frontal 3rd and then addressed the crown later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) Gotta disagree with the OP, he used up 500 grafts on the crown leaving only 2,500 to cover what seems like a large area. I'm sorry, but you are not going to achieve dense packing with that few grafts spread out. Agree with Doug that you are always going to get an aesthetic improvement, but not a full set of dense hair. Also agree that you need to also give the hairs a chance to mature. I think you would have been better served using all 3000 grafts on the frontal 3rd and then addressed the crown later on. Did you read all the details of my case ? 2500 grafts on the frontal third weren't added to a bare scalp but to existing hair from previous two surgeries( Dr Gillespie implanted at least 2500 Grafts on the frontal third) . This is a pre-op picture from last year and you clearly see that there was already coverage on the front scalp and Dr Wong didn't work on a bare scalp. So would expect thicker results given the fact that Dr Wong worked on an Area with some coverage Edited July 21, 2016 by BaldPatient2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 21, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 21, 2016 Agree with Doug that you are always going to get an aesthetic improvement, but not a full set of dense hair.. These aren't the goals I discussed with the consultant James, he promised me that I would have thick hair with the coverage that I already had , so I won't need to use Toppik anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Shampoo Posted July 22, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 dude don't be a lack of growth cry baby at 6 months sure some get early results most don't it's ridiculous our society demands instant gratification or OMG "something must be wrong" check in at 12-18 months Dr. Dow Stough - 1000 Grafts - 1996 Dr. Jerry Wong - 4352 Grafts - August 2012 Dr. Jerry Wong - 2708 Grafts - May 2016 Remember a hair transplant turns back the clock, but it doesn't stop the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 22, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 Did you read all the details of my case ? 2500 grafts on the frontal third weren't added to a bare scalp but to existing hair from previous two surgeries( Dr Gillespie implanted at least 2500 Grafts on the frontal third) .This is a pre-op picture from last year and you clearly see that there was already coverage on the front scalp and Dr Wong didn't work on a bare scalp. So would expect thicker results given the fact that Dr Wong worked on an Area with some coverage Yes I looked at your pre-op picture, and yes I know it wasn't bare scalp. It still looked like a large area to cover even with your existing hair. Go take a look at my pre-op pictures as well. I also had existing hair before my very 1st procedure. I had two procedures for around 4,500 grafts in total just to the frontal 3rd to get the density I wanted, and I still have a very miniaturized crown that I haven't touched yet. I think your expectations were unreasonable to start with and if I were H&W, I would turn you down as a patient for any further procedure. You also cannot judge your result at 6 or 7 months, you just can't. At best you are only at 70% of what the final result is. Not saying the result is going to increase dramatically over the next few months, but you have a) jumped the gun by reaching your conclusion too early (did you examine the recipient area with a micro-lense?) and b) had the wrong expectations for 2,500 grafts to start with. I think 2,500 grafts is not a lot at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 22, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 These aren't the goals I discussed with the consultant James, he promised me that I would have thick hair with the coverage that I already had , so I won't need to use Toppik anymore I never dealt with James, but if he promised you that, then shame on him. He should never have promised you anything. When I consulted with the clinic for my 2nd procedure, Doug himself was very clear with me that 2,500 to 3,000 grafts would result in a nice aesthetic improvement, but their preference was to try go for 4,000 grafts. This after I had already had a 2,000 graft procedure to the frontal 3rd, and also some native diffused hair, so like you, I had very little spots to cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 dude don't be a lack of growth cry baby at 6 monthssure some get early results most don't it's ridiculous our society demands instant gratification or OMG "something must be wrong" check in at 12-18 months It's already 7 month, and I know this is close to final results because I haven't seen any improvement since last month , so I don't expect huge changes in the next few months. Even Dr Wong admitted that any future growth will be minimal past this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Bald36 Posted July 22, 2016 Regular Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 I agree. The consultant should not have promised anything. I also agree that the expectations are too high. The OP said that he had 2500 grafts in the front third but his photos show that he had 2500 grafts across the full top of his scalp just short of where the crown begins. If the grafts were placed into the front third or even the hairline then he would have reason to be pissed but with the large area covered I think he has a clear improvement. So much that he can throw away his concealer? No but this should not have been the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 I had two procedures for around 4,500 grafts in total just to the frontal 3rd to get the density I wanted.I think your expectations were unreasonable to start with and , Dr Gillespie already implanted at least 2500 grafts on the frontal 3rd and DR Wong added another 2500 , If I don't count the grafts implanted on the crown and mid scalp. So how come with a total 5000 grafts on frontal 3rd, I'm not able to achieve good density ? I don't think my expectations were unreasonable for a total of 5000 grafts on the rontal 3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) I agree. The consultant should not have promised anything. I also agree that the expectations are too high. The OP said that he had 2500 grafts in the front third but his photos show that he had 2500 grafts across the full top of his scalp just short of where the crown begins. If the grafts were placed into the front third or even the hairline then he would have reason to be pissed but with the large area covered I think he has a clear improvement. So much that he can throw away his concealer? No but this should not have been the message. [] You're wrong. This immediate post-op picture shows the placement of grafts and they were clearly placed on the front third and as you can see the mid scalp was untouched by Dr Wong, so not across the full top as you stated , also you have to add 2500 existing grafts from previous surgeries Edited July 22, 2016 by BaldPatient2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 22, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 You're wrong. This immediate post-op picture shows the placement of grafts and they were clearly placed on the front third and as you can see the mid scalp was untouched by Dr Wong, so not across the full top as you stated Brother you then have the largest front 3rd I have ever seen!!!! Do you have a ruler near you? Give it a try and you will see I'm not crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 Brother you then have the largest front 3rd I have ever seen!!!! Do you have a ruler near you? Give it a try and you will see I'm not crazy You see in this picture that mid scalp wasn't touched during surgery ( remained unshaven), and that Dr Wong worked only on the crown ( 400 grafts) and frontal third ( 2500 grafts). So don't you expect to have a reasonable density with a total of 5000 grafts implanted on that area from two different doctors ? were your 4500 grafts implanted on the same area size ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Bald36 Posted July 22, 2016 Regular Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 You're wrong. You're perceptively challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 You're perceptively challenged. Did you see the immediate post op? the area where those 2500 grafts were implanted didn't extend all the way to where the crown begins as you said , mid scalp remained untouched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 22, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 You see in this picture that mid scalp wasn't touched during surgery ( remained unshaven), and that Dr Wong worked only on the crown ( 400 grafts) and frontal third ( 2500 grafts).So don't you expect to have a reasonable density with a total of 5000 grafts implanted on that area from two different doctors ? were your 4500 grafts implanted on the same area size ? My friend, what I see in the picture is that the front half of your scalp was touched, then a very small area of your mid scalp was untouched, and then the crown. Remember, you have the frontal 3rd, then the next 3rd is considered the midsection, and then the back 3rd is the crown. It looks to me that Dr Wong implanted into your frontal 3rd and half of your mid scalp, and then your crown. Yes, my 4,500 grafts were all implanted into the same area. I haven't touched my mid scalp or crown as yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 22, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 See the pics in my thread http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181957-dr-rahal-2-245-graft-procedure-fut.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldPatient2 Posted July 22, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 Yes, my 4,500 grafts were all implanted into the same area. I haven't touched my mid scalp or crown as yet. So how come you're able to achieve good density with 4500 grafts and I had 5000 grafts ( if I don't count the remaining 1900 ) implanted in the same area as yours with two different doctors and cannot achieve good density ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted July 22, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted July 22, 2016 So don't you expect to have a reasonable density with a total of 5000 grafts implanted on that area from two different doctors ? were your 4500 grafts implanted on the same area size ? BINGO - that's exactly the point and exactly the reason why hair restoration will very seldom restore a full set of dense hair that covers the whole head, and the reason so many high NWs with good donar supply are not good candidates for hair transplantation. That's the reason so many surgeons warn patients to rather focus on the frontal 3rd before trying to hit the crown. I think you are going to require at least 6,000 total grafts to just active dense hair in the front half before even touching the crown, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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