Calling All My Dermmatch And Couvre Experts

[esrec]

I'm approaching 3 months post-op and about to reintroduce concealers. I've been traveling so have been able to abstain entirely until now.

 

But I'm about to introduce a concealer I've never used before and I need some guidance.

 

I was an absolute pro with Couvre/Toppik. I seriously could teach a tutorial on how to apply to the forelock and hairline area without being caught. But I've never used dermmatch, and I want to mitigate any learning curve by better understanding the nuances between the two products- application process, etc.

 

Has anyone had success with both couvre/toppik AND dermmatch/toppik along the hairline and forelock? Best practices, key differences, things to avoid? Thanks.

[Stig]

I struggled mightily with Dermmatch so gave up. Will be interested in hearing best practices for this. Did you try the fil-in powder used by Matt from your clinic?

[esrec]

What aspect did you struggle with? The mixing process, proper coverage, naturalness? etc There's a good post from a while back on dermmatch application but it lacked context vs cream-based concealers.

 

I could always revert back to previous routine w/o consequence until I hit month 5 (should be good by then) but SMG encouraged me to try a non-cream scalp based concealer. I think its just their preference so I want to try. I've also heard it dries quicker therefore faster turnaround.

 

Nothing will touch my scalp until 3.5 mo mark so hopefully in the clear on that front. No redness, hairs peaking, etc.

 

For now I've been applying Matt's fill in powder vs dermmatch on my arm to compare color and sustainability. The fill-in is definitely softer and applies easier when dry, it also has fewer ingredients. But it also seems to be more susceptible to clumping and breaking at first glance. but I've been told dermmatch in particular works better with a wet/damp application.

[Stig]

What aspect did you struggle with? The mixing process, proper coverage, naturalness? etc There's a good post from a while back on dermmatch application but it lacked context vs cream-based concealers.

 

I could always revert back to previous routine w/o consequence until I hit month 5 (should be good by then) but SMG encouraged me to try a non-cream scalp based concealer. I think its just their preference so I want to try. I've also heard it dries quicker therefore faster turnaround.

 

Nothing will touch my scalp until 3.5 mo mark so hopefully in the clear on that front. No redness, hairs peaking, etc.

 

For now I've been applying Matt's fill in powder vs dermmatch on my arm to compare color and sustainability. The fill-in is definitely softer and applies easier when dry, it also has fewer ingredients. But it also seems to be more susceptible to clumping and breaking at first glance. but I've been told dermmatch in particular works better with a wet/damp application.

 

The application. I have followed instructions laid out on youtube videos, but I can't apply it correcty. It just doesn't work. Had much better luck with Toppic (although I use Nanogen) and the fil-in powder.

[esrec]

I'm conducting an experiment tonight. Its very unscientific

 

I've applied couvre, dermatch, and the fill-in to my arm so they match similar shade/density. Im going to see how the color looks after 5 and 10 hrs-which one holds up the best, color maintained etc.

 

Unsurprisingly, couvre applied easiest. The fill-in powder I applied dry as there's no mention of wetting the applicator or product. Dermmatch however was impossible to apply to my arm dry. Nothing happened. I wet the applicator and did a few circular motions in the disc and it activated. I'll report back.

[esrec]

Ran a quick unscientific test the other day to get a feel for the differences between couvre, dermmatch, and the fill-in powder as a post-op concealer.

 

I applied each product to my forearm creating a small circular dot of the same size and shade. I made sure each product had settled on the surface and remained unobstructed and untouched for 10 hrs. After 2 hrs I lightly tapped each spot once just to see how much of the product came off. My very unscientic imprecise results will be tested next week on my actual recipient. Results ranked below: 1-Best, 3-Worst

 

Application Process:

1-Couvre

2-Fill-In

3-Dermmatch

 

Courve had some distinct advantages as a cream. The sesame oil based made it easier to create specific lines and the oil-base buys you a little extra time to refine the intitial touch points before it dries. This is useful particularly when working close to the hairline. It does take longer to dry though, and has a certain viscosity to it. Dermmatch does dry more quickly, and subsequently not as precise when initially applying. Catch 22. It has good color and substance, but re-application is really the only option for touch-up if you miss your marks. Applicator better when damp not wet. Fill-in is easy to apply and create angles with, but consistent fullness in color lacked comparatively. Powder seems prone to cracking.

 

Durarability

1-Couvre

2-Dermmatch

3-Fill-in

 

Couvre is the most heavy duty (we can weigh +/- of this) but stayed on the longest with the deepest shade of dark brown and was the most difficult to remove. I'm bias bc of previous usage. Dermmatch was the clear runner-up. Once I finally arrived on the correct shade and fullness, it was quite strong and vibrant in original color even hours later. I found the fill-in to be the most tempermental here. Just never seems to fully settle, perhaps bc it lacks the "wetness" of the other two during application. Additionally, bc of its softer and powder-like substance, not sure how well it will work in conjunction w toppik. TBD

 

Color/Shade/Naturalness

1-Dermmatch

2-Couvre

3-Fill-in

 

Couvre had the richest brown color, but if used alone w/o toppik (which I dont recc) it will look like paint. Dermmatch had a good balance of color/shade/fullness and softer look that may ultimately look better on the recipient. Fill-in was the most delicate, preferable if you're placing it mid-scalp vs the hairline. I would bet this is the least abrasive of the 3, but also had the grayest tint.

 

Overall: My reasons for trying a powder based product is that its potentially less abrasive to the scalp than a cream. That said, all of these products are approved by physicians post-op so it ultimately comes down to needs and comfort level. It's good to practice before the actual game. Will report back again.

[Hairsearch21]

Hey man,

 

VERY interesting topic for me buddy.

Because i need to cover my small crown until i go for my last transplant.

There is enough hair for toppik in my crown and it looks good, but i wonder if couvre or dermatch could do better alone or if i take the combo with toppik and dermatch/couvre..

 

Im not going out without a hat..

But i hopefully will be able to go out without a hat at my 6 month mark ..

 

All the best

[Sethticles]

@ esrec, hey mate i think 3 months is just too early, why? i tend to think your new grafts need clean healthy scalp or they just wont grow to their potential and you could run the risk of a poor result or low survival rate. i could be wrong

[hairlosscpa]

I have been using Couvre for around 5 years now with the combination of Toppik/Caboki, works wonders especially after mastering the hairline. Too much Couvre makes your hair look too chalky and too little you'll overcompensate with the fibers, making your hair look chalky. Hard to strike the perfect balance. I'm 27 now and literally concealers have given me a chance to enjoy my 20s. I tried Dermatch and thought it was useless. Even after many different attempts at application.

 

I don't think using Couvre will hinder your results. It's just not possible for the cream to penetrate your scalp so deep that it affects the health of your follicles. I do think that leaving it on for days at a time and letting it dry will affect scalp and hair health. I use to leave that stuff on for sometimes close to 2 weeks and it probably did do some damage. Now if I use it, I wash it out that night no matter what I have going on the next morning.

 

I'm close to 4 months post-op with Dr. Vories and I have noticed some substantial growth. Makes applying concealer for work, especially the hairline area, so much easier. Basically cut down my application time by more than half. However, I know my hair natural will never look as good as it does with concealers , even when fully matured. It's going to be hard to eventually stop using Couvre/Toppik/Caboki as I get older.

 

Esrec, good luck man. My two cents is hold off as much as you can using concealers again, because even after your transplant matures, it will probably never look as good naturally as it would with your matured results mixed with concealers. You probably know this already considering your expertise with using concealers. Just thought I'd share my experience and thoughts so far.

[esrec]

@ esrec, hey mate i think 3 months is just too early, why? i tend to think your new grafts need clean healthy scalp or they just wont grow to their potential and you could run the risk of a poor result or low survival rate. i could be wrong

 

Thanks bud. Im just going by the expert opinions of top docs. I asked about 10--what else can I do? lol The most aggressive estimate was surprisingly Konior and Bernstein who said 7-10 days post op was fine if scabs had fallen. I believe Spex recommends 2 weeks. Rahal, H+W, Shapiro, etc (which I have in writing) was to wait 3-4 weeks and use sparingly/wash daily. I guess the way I'm looking at it, is I'm going more than 2 mo longer than the most conservative estimate.

 

My plan is to do my first application in real life at month 3.5. Then I will only use it a few times a week (when I have to go out) until month 5. My goal is to cut down the total applications and not use it daily. I have no choice unfortunately.

Edited January 6, 2016 by esrec

[esrec]

I have been using Couvre for around 5 years now with the combination of Toppik/Caboki, works wonders especially after mastering the hairline. Too much Couvre makes your hair look too chalky and too little you'll overcompensate with the fibers, making your hair look chalky. Hard to strike the perfect balance. I'm 27 now and literally concealers have given me a chance to enjoy my 20s. I tried Dermatch and thought it was useless. Even after many different attempts at application.

 

I don't think using Couvre will hinder your results. It's just not possible for the cream to penetrate your scalp so deep that it affects the health of your follicles. I do think that leaving it on for days at a time and letting it dry will affect scalp and hair health. I use to leave that stuff on for sometimes close to 2 weeks and it probably did do some damage. Now if I use it, I wash it out that night no matter what I have going on the next morning.

 

I'm close to 4 months post-op with Dr. Vories and I have noticed some substantial growth. Makes applying concealer for work, especially the hairline area, so much easier. Basically cut down my application time by more than half. However, I know my hair natural will never look as good as it does with concealers , even when fully matured. It's going to be hard to eventually stop using Couvre/Toppik/Caboki as I get older.

 

Esrec, good luck man. My two cents is hold off as much as you can using concealers again, because even after your transplant matures, it will probably never look as good naturally as it would with your matured results mixed with concealers. You probably know this already considering your expertise with using concealers. Just thought I'd share my experience and thoughts so far.

 

Wow man your routine sounds so similar to mine. Thanks so much for the insight. You dont meet many who are using couvre/toppik on the hairline before and after post op and have experience with both.

 

When did you re-introduce concealers? Each of the 10 or so docs I've polled including my own recommend anywhere from the 10 day to 1 month mark as a fair time to re-intro. I will be at 3.5 month mark when anything first touches my recipient.

 

Did you really leave couvre on for 2 weeks at a time? lol I thought I was aggressive going 3 days at times.

 

I think thats the biggest change--ok to use, but no more caking on dermmatch/couvre for multiple days and lighter applications in general. Like you said, it will keep from chasing density that's just not achievable in real life.

Edited January 6, 2016 by esrec

[esrec]

Hey man,

 

VERY interesting topic for me buddy.

Because i need to cover my small crown until i go for my last transplant.

There is enough hair for toppik in my crown and it looks good, but i wonder if couvre or dermatch could do better alone or if i take the combo with toppik and dermatch/couvre..

 

Im not going out without a hat..

But i hopefully will be able to go out without a hat at my 6 month mark ..

 

All the best

 

They work well in conjunction---the concealer reduces the scalp contrast, and toppik provides the thickening effect.

[Hairsearch21]

What kind of couvre do you take?

Can you tell me a Brand name?

[esrec]

Couvre is the brand. You can order off amazon. I used the dark brown version. Its dries as a true brown, where as the dermmatch is more of a grey/brown. I think its better for the crown bc the application is a small sponge which is better for covering larger areas. Dermmatch comes with a sponge pen applicator.

[Sethticles]

just be careful and wash it out daily and look after your scalp mate

[esrec]

just be careful and wash it out daily and look after your scalp mate

 

Thanks bud. And you're spot on. Have to protect the investment

 

In a few months we'll both hopefully be enjoying some nice growth.

[Hairsearch21]

Please take a look at my pic and tell me what kind of concealer you would use..

Its an area of 30cm2.

Ill have my final procedure in 2-3 years in my crown and i wanna see what FIN can do for now.

So i have to cover it with concealers for that time.

Toppik worked well in the past.

 

What do you think?

[hairlosscpa]

Wow man your routine sounds so similar to mine. Thanks so much for the insight. You dont meet many who are using couvre/toppik on the hairline before and after post op and have experience with both.

 

When did you re-introduce concealers? Each of the 10 or so docs I've polled including my own recommend anywhere from the 10 day to 1 month mark as a fair time to re-intro. I will be at 3.5 month mark when anything first touches my recipient.

 

Did you really leave couvre on for 2 weeks at a time? lol I thought I was aggressive going 3 days at times.

 

I think thats the biggest change--ok to use, but no more caking on dermmatch/couvre for multiple days and lighter applications in general. Like you said, it will keep from chasing density that's just not achievable in real life.

 

Haha, yes 2 weeks! I was a clown. I was in crazy denial about my hairloss that I hid under concealers as long as I could.

 

I applied Couvre close to 3 weeks post-op. Did not have the luxury to wait 3.5 months due to work commitments. I asked Dr. Vories about concealers and he said its fine once the scabs are gone. I try to avoid applying it as much as I can. Luckily, I work from home 2/3 times a week so I definitely give my scalp some concealer-free days. I really think you're OK applying Couvre at this point. Like others have said, just wash it out daily (preferably with sulfate-free shampoo). I use Mill Creek Botanicals Biotin Shampoo. All natural, no sulfates, safe for daily use. This way its not like I'm applying concealers and then damaging my hair with shampoos haha.

[hairlosscpa]

Please take a look at my pic and tell me what kind of concealer you would use..

Its an area of 30cm2.

Ill have my final procedure in 2-3 years in my crown and i wanna see what FIN can do for now.

So i have to cover it with concealers for that time.

Toppik worked well in the past.

 

What do you think?

 

Based on your pic, which isn't the clearest, I would go with light application of light brown Couvre and then a light application of light brown Toppik/Caboki fibers (you could always order the trial size of the fibers if you need to experiment with colors)

[esrec]

Haha, yes 2 weeks! I was a clown. I was in crazy denial about my hairloss that I hid under concealers as long as I could.

 

I applied Couvre close to 3 weeks post-op. Did not have the luxury to wait 3.5 months due to work commitments. I asked Dr. Vories about concealers and he said its fine once the scabs are gone. I try to avoid applying it as much as I can. Luckily, I work from home 2/3 times a week so I definitely give my scalp some concealer-free days. I really think you're OK applying Couvre at this point. Like others have said, just wash it out daily (preferably with sulfate-free shampoo). I use Mill Creek Botanicals Biotin Shampoo. All natural, no sulfates, safe for daily use. This way its not like I'm applying concealers and then damaging my hair with shampoos haha.

 

Awesome. Is it weird to feel connected to someone with a similar concealer routine? Haha oh the joys of hair loss.

 

Thanks for the shampoo recc. I'll check it out. I've been looking into some good organic, paraben free, sulfate free conditioners too. Everything I read says to shampoo less and condition more.

 

if someone asked you 10 years ago if you'd be on a forum talking about shampoo and conditioner with a bunch of dudes, would you have taken the over / under on that? lol

 

Appreciate it man.

[esrec]

Please take a look at my pic and tell me what kind of concealer you would use..

Its an area of 30cm2.

Ill have my final procedure in 2-3 years in my crown and i wanna see what FIN can do for now.

So i have to cover it with concealers for that time.

Toppik worked well in the past.

 

What do you think?

 

I would trial couvre on a small test area first. In general both products work best in areas where there's decent coverage nearby. I would probably avoid trying to achieve full denstity (it would require too much product) and wouldnt look natural.

 

I would start from the outside and work your way in. If you can blend even 2/3 of that total area I think it would make a huge cosmetic difference. Apply couvre to scalp, let semi dry. Apply Toppik, let rest for a half hour and comb through. I think the products "attach" the best when semi damp. PM me and I can walk you through it.

[Etownone]

Just thought I'd share these before after pics of Dermmatch.

Best concealer out there.

[HairsGone]

I've just re-tried Dermmatch and it is much better now I'm 9 months post op compared to when I had less hair at 4 months when I last tried it. The only thing I don't like is it gets on your hands if you touch your hair for whatever reason. Is Couvre similar in this respect and is couvre water resistant or will it stay on in the rain or if your hair is slightly wet?

 

I've been recommended to use Couvre to hide my scar after my next surgery when I return to work on day 17 - does anyone else have any experience in using it this way or using dermmatch for this reason to hide the scar specifically?