SMP how long can the hair be?

[trapps99]

ive seen alot of sparse areas get the SMP by themselves and looked fine......if you are going to keep the hair longer as in your pics no sense of getting the whole thing done ( especially since they would charge over 3 grand i assume )

 

it might not be perfect but it will colour the scalp under the scalp and thats really the effect your trying to achieve......

[wibbles180]

Yea 3000 vs 1500 Skalp clinic , or 2000 Vinci clinic . I'm swaying towards Skalp clinic after speaking to both clinics , I'm going to see a long hair smp in January so will get a proper look at the finished article , have you seen the long hair smp in person ?

[mattiulo]

Hey wibbles

 

It is definitely possible to do SMP with longer hair. The reason sometimes its more difficult than others is depending on the density of the amount of hair remaining. Its easier to navigate a micro needle around thinner sparser hair, but in areas that are a bit more dense, it would be harder to navigate and also puncture the skin correctly.

 

Having worked for HIS for a time, the idea behind their approach is to cut the hair a bit shorter and cover the whole scalp, this way you have an even appearance throuhgout. Sometimes when leaving the hair longer during and SMP session, the practitioner might not be able to see the "whole picture" and possibly miss some areas of the scalp due to remaining hair acting as a barrier.

 

Hope that makes sense

-Matt

[wibbles180]

Hi Matt ,

 

Thanks for your reply , looking at my pictures would you recommend shaving and treating the whole scalp ? Or just filling around the sparse areas ? If in time I loose more hair and then want to shave my head would there be issues ? I'm also considering rebuilding the front third with some fue , what's your opinion on fue and smp combination mate ?

 

Cheers

[hairthere]

Hi Wibbles,

I have performed SMP into longer hair with no issues, and we do not require the client shave down. Our product is a temporary SMP so you have the option to add more should thinning progress or let it disappear completely. The first model shown below is nearly 100% transplant. The second model is natural hair with thinning only to the crown area.

 

I did just work on a client who was all transplant that required full coverage. Despite the HT work, this client wanted more density and to address multiple, visible strip scars. His main goal was to add density to the obviously thin crown, however, we also added SMP to the frontal area which appeared thinner when wetted down, with product, and styled a certain way. He needs at least one more session and I'll post the final results when he's completed.

Edited December 8, 2014 by hairthere

[wibbles180]

Hi thanks for your advice , especially the pictures , as I am having trouble seeing many examples of long hair smp , are the costs of temporary the same as permanent ? How long do they last ?

 

Also are permanent inks as easily removed as easy as the clinics say they are. ?

 

Cheers

[wibbles180]

Any other pictures would be greatly received also

[hairthere]

wibbles,

Generally speaking the cost of temporary is less because it's a repeat process. I am not privy to what other clinics are charging so can't say for certain. Ideally you should get 2 years from our product. There are factors that could accelerate the fade process such as sun exposure, etc.

 

Regarding laser removal, I would say it's probably not too tough to remove most SMP (1-2 sessions) as long as real SMP products and equipment are used and not tattoo ink/equipment.

[wibbles180]

And would you treat the entire scalp or just the thinning areas ? I'm in the uk so probably will go with His hair , vinci, or Skalp clinic , I will enquire about if they can use a temporary ink and see if there's a difference in price

 

Thanks

[hairthere]

wibbles,

I would likely just work into areas that appeared thin, especially if the native hair seemed robust and not miniaturized. I did send one client to see Dr. Feller to have his hair analyzed, which might not be a bad idea for you.

[BaldKen2]

Hey Wibbles, I understand your confusion over the whole 'smp+shaved head+entire head treatment thing'. When I first began researching smp I assumed that smp was only applied to thinning areas of the scalp, but after extensive research I learned that all of the credible smp businesses in the industry treat the entire scalp (even over the areas on the side of the head where hair still grows normally) for blending purposes. And honestly, for you to benefit from TRUE SMP, which is Hair follicle Replication( tiny tattooed dots that match your natural hair follicle color) you must shave your hair down very close with razor or clippers and shave regularly. If you do not like the shaved head look or buzzed look then I would definitely say that SMP is not for you. If you only have smp performed on the thinning areas of your scalp, it will not look natural and will not blend well with your natural hair; it will look very strange and an obvious discrepancy between hair and ink will exist. The idea is to have the entire scalp smp'd to basically serve as the foundation or base, which means you'll have to get rid of your hair by shaving it.

Now there are some permanent smp clinics who perform smp on women, and use a different method called the 'blanket method', in which they tattoo a solid sheet of ink (Not just dots) over only the thinning areas, but most of these clinics will not perform this method on men, as men are more likely than women to continue losing more hair as they age. Dots will not do much to conceal hair loss with longer hair, it has to be a solid base. And I have noticed that many of these clinics, who once advertised heavily that they offered this service for women, are no longer pushing and advertising this near as much which causes me to believe that it may have been less than successful in the long term.

I am aware that temporary SMP clinics are using this method of tattooing only the thinning areas as a sort of longer-lasting dermatch concealer, and the photos I have seen look really good. The problem I have with these Temporary clinics though, is it will start fading as soon as you have it done. Your results will constantly be on a very quick decline from the day you have the procedure until about the 9-18 month mark when the results fade completely. And watching your results fade so quickly would feel like losing your hair all over again, and we all know how depressing that is. I think this temporary method is fine for someone who just wants to try out smp and see if they like it without committing, but to constantly being paying for this service and undergoing treatments every 9-18 months just seems like a depressing and hopeless journey to be on. Losing your hair is discouraging enough without having to constantly watch your smp results fade so quickly over and over again.

Judging from your photos you seem to have a good amount of coverage remaining, just thinning on the crown and some on the frontal area. I understand why you would not want to shave your head, you do not appear to be at a point where you have to yet. That being said, I don't think SMP is your best option at this point, Although the guys and gals Peddling their smp services on this forum will No Doubt tell you otherwise! I would definitely explore other options if I were in your situation, especially if you are not looking to do the shaved head thing.

[wibbles180]

Hi ken ,

 

Thank you so much for your opinion , I think you are bang on with your research , I have raised the issue of my concerns regarding the blend between the smp to long hair and since then I haven't received a reply ? ? When thy mention I have other options , are you referring to a transplant ? I have sent pictures in for virtual consultation and have received mixed feedback ,

 

Asmed clinic =4000 fue

Injertocapilar = 2200 fue

Feriduni=3000 fue

Doganay =2500 fue

Hasson&wong = 2800 fut

 

I'm starting to sway to a possible procedure next year, but probably now need to start researching the various clinics ?

 

Thanks so much for your reply and any other further advice re ht would be greatly received

[BaldKen2]

Hi ken ,

 

Thank you so much for your opinion , I think you are bang on with your research , I have raised the issue of my concerns regarding the blend between the smp to long hair and since then I haven't received a reply ? ? When thy mention I have other options , are you referring to a transplant ? I have sent pictures in for virtual consultation and have received mixed feedback ,

 

Asmed clinic =4000 fue

Injertocapilar = 2200 fue

Feriduni=3000 fue

Doganay =2500 fue

Hasson&wong = 2800 fut

 

I'm starting to sway to a possible procedure next year, but probably now need to start researching the various clinics ?

 

Thanks so much for your reply and any other further advice re ht would be greatly received

 

Yea, I am not surprised that you haven't received a response from the clinics to your question regarding the blending of smp only in thinning areas + long hair. What I have learned about SMP is that it is so new that a lot of the questions we may ask the smp providers will go unanswered or we will get the run-around b/c these providers honestly do not know the answer. There are not a ton of cases of men having smp for longer than ten years, so any inquiries about longevity, fading, and # of touchups necessary is going to be a question mark even to the provider. But as far as your question about the blending of smp only placed in thinning areas with your natural long hair; I think this is an unknown b/c it is something that no permanent smp clinics are willing to tackle at this point, on men anyway. I have seen some photos of Temporary SMP "results" on men with longer hair, and the photos look great, but you must keep in mind that with the 'lighting tricks' and photoshop, these providers can make their smp look amazing without it actually being amazing in person. Plus as I said before, as soon as you have temp smp done, the proverbial hour glass will be turned over and you will see your smp fade at a rapid pace and after 18 months it'll be like turning back into a pumpkin after midnight.

As far as your individual case, when I said I think you should seek alternative solutions I was referring to medicine and possibly surgical. I apologize in advance for not reading very far back on your story, just been busy with holidays and work so you may already be on medication. But if you arent I would definitely recommend speaking with your Primary about getting on Finasteride (propecia), and/or Dutasteride, and definitely Rogaine (minoxidil). By blocking the production of DHT, These will help preserve the hair you have left and delay the process of losing more hair significantly. I speak from experience when I say that these medications have allowed me to maintain what hair I have left. Also some good shampoos out there to cleanse the scalp and follicles of DHT and thicken the hair shafts. Nioxin is a good one. You may be very aware of all of this info already but Im just mentioning it just in case.

I honestly do not have much experience with Hair Transplants. I was told by two different HT docs that I was not a candidate b/c my hair loss was not great enough. They told me they could only transplant units to my crown area, but that I had too much remaining hair in front and everywhere else that they could not fit the follicular units in between existing follicles. That is why I started shaving my head and eventually opted for SMP. But since you wana keep the hair you have, and it looks really full and good with exception of crown and small area in middle/front, I would definitely try and find a good HT doc who can fill in those areas. Have you already undergone HT surgery? If so it has worked quite well for you

[wibbles180]

Hi ken ,

 

Thanks again for your help , I've been on the meds you mentioned for approx 3 years and they have definitely stopped any further loss , I will look into adding a shampoo to my treatment , I haven't had any previous surgery but I definitely want to soon so I can rebuild crown , mid scalp and hairline . How long is it since you were told you weren't a good candidate for ht ? I think a lot of the top surgeons are more comfortably working around existing hair now with the improvement/sizes of needles etc . I was told the same by bhr clinic 3 years ago that they weren't prepared to work on my crown as fear of shockloss but they are now prepared to add fue to my crown .

 

Regards

[BaldKen2]

Hi ken ,

 

Thanks again for your help , I've been on the meds you mentioned for approx 3 years and they have definitely stopped any further loss , I will look into adding a shampoo to my treatment , I haven't had any previous surgery but I definitely want to soon so I can rebuild crown , mid scalp and hairline . How long is it since you were told you weren't a good candidate for ht ? I think a lot of the top surgeons are more comfortably working around existing hair now with the improvement/sizes of needles etc . I was told the same by bhr clinic 3 years ago that they weren't prepared to work on my crown as fear of shockloss but they are now prepared to add fue to my crown .

 

Regards

 

That is good that u are on the meds. I haven't found that they regrow hair that has been lost (rogaine has added a little) but they have definitely helped me keep what I have. It's been about 5 years since I consulted with Bosley. I always felt that a good ht doc could do what Bosley can't. I think you wud benefit greatly from ht, provided the doc is good. I know there are a lot of factors involved with successful ht's, but I think you'd be better off trying that and adding texture rather than just pigment. I love my smp results and couldn't be happier with the results, but if u don't like the shaved or even the buzzed look then it doesn't make since to even go down that road. Plus you have good hair that just needs some rebuilding- no need to tear down the entire house just because of a couple small holes in the roof.

[wibbles180]

Thanks again for your honest opinion , it's quite hard to get honesty on these matters , i guess I'm now in the situation of picking a surgeon , if you don't mind me asking where did you have your smp done ? For future reference

[mattiulo]

Wibbles,

 

Sorry for the late reply, i havent checked on here in a bit.

 

From looking at your pictures i would recommend you sporting a short buzzed hair type look. You have a great amount of hair left, but appear to be starting thinning in the crown. If you kept your hair at that current length in the picture, SMP could marginally help create an illusion of thicker hair by eliminating some scalp color, but i think you would look fantastic with a short buzzed look.

 

Because of the amount of hair you have left, adding a bit of smp through thin areas and cutting down to say a little less than 1mm would give you a cropped look that would work well. totally bald guys need t shave close to the skin, because you have even growth up top, you can get away with a touch more growth. id recommend you staying behind the hairline for now.

 

-Matt

[BaldKen2]

Thanks again for your honest opinion , it's quite hard to get honesty on these matters , i guess I'm now in the situation of picking a surgeon , if you don't mind me asking where did you have your smp done ? For future reference

 

No problem at all Wibbles! Yes it is tough to get unbiased opinions on here, but very easy to get a sales pitch LOL. That is why I don't say where I had my SMP done. I just have always felt that there are some good smp places out there, and you gotta find the provider that best suits your needs and meets your expectations as far as customer service and proven long-term results. If you really want to know the provider who did my smp, which I would recommend 100%, Private Message me and I'll tell you.

 

But honestly, it sounds to me like SMP may not be your best course of action at this point, and your money may be better spent on a surgical hair transplant. And if you talk to MOST SMP places right now, they will first tell you this step by step:

 

1) "yes, we can perform smp with the hair length you have now to add appearance of density"

 

Later they will say:

 

2) " Well you will have to buzz your head with the clippers to make it shorter for it to all blend and look its best"

 

And finally you will hear this:

 

3) "I think you should shave your head. You will need to commit to no longer than an eight of an inch buzz cut (one guard clipper shave) for the smp to blend with your natural hair."

"Why don't you wana shave your head? You will look great with a shaved or buzzed head, you've got great features!"

 

LOL, and that is the quintessential 3-step SMP sales pitch for guys with longer hair! And my favorite part is when they tell guys that they will look good with a buzzed head when there is absolutely no way to determine if he will look good until you see the guy with his head shaved LOL. It's just B.S. sales techniques and is really annoying to see, b/c someone in your position obviously wants to keep the hair he has and make it fuller in certain areas, and SMP cannot do that. And you have good hair, you should try and keep it long, in my opinion.

I will say that the clinic I went to is very honest and up front with men. They tell you from the beginning that you have to commit to shaving your head or the smp will not look its best.

[hairthere]

I recently had a client come to us with scarring from having moles removed. We performed SMP with his hair cut at about a 3-4 guard. It looked good but I recommended he have another pass to add further density and darken the area. Even though the scar wasn't huge, there was no hair growing from it or over it to help with the camouflage. The client, on his own, decided to buzz down, and when he returned we decided he did not need another pass as the SMP blended well enough with his new cropped hair.

 

I personally would never try to hardsell someone on buzzing their head. However, you need to discuss the reality of SMP and what it can do to meet a client's expectations. One client who we saw recently had an HT 10 years ago but did not receive nearly enough hair to pull off density via SMP. The contrast between SMP dots and longer hair would be obvious. I did ask if he had ever shaved his head and explained why what he wanted to do wouldn't work. In the end I sent him to see Dr. Feller to discuss his options for more HT work.

 

P.S. I'll post pictures of the mole removal scar in another thread.....