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SMP how long can the hair be?


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  • Senior Member

Keep in mind that SMP does not mimic the transition from no hair- to thin miniaturizing hair very well. The hairlines tend to be blunt because the SMPoperators don't have the time and skill to create a transition. But if u have hair there, u can grow it.

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  • Senior Member

scar 5 , do you think if someone has a few ht and they get pretty much full coverage but it looks see threw and diffuse, kinda like me, do you think the smp will mask it well, kinda almost like semi permanent topik but obv not to that extent, you think smp could kill native hairs?

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  • Senior Member

Mark, you either need to have your hair buzzed to stubble or long enough that the SMP is just acting like Dermatch basically cutting the color contrast between hair and scalp. Remember that the SMP "dots" simply mimic stubble.

 

Taco, the needle only penetrates 0.5mm (upper dermis) so it cannot harm your follicles.

I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in the New York area. AHEAD INK is a Milena Lardi trained clinic and uses Beauty Medical Tricopigmentation equipment and products exclusively.

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  • Senior Member

Yes, you can grow hair and the ink will act as background that contributes to the illusion that you have a much more consistent coverage. Color doesn't have to be perfectly matched and such a match is impossible for a lighter color hair anyway, as the hair changes in tone as it grows and naturally bleaches from sunlight.

 

There are some lengths where it works better and worse and shine can be an issue but products can reduce the scalp shine that would otherwise expose the areas lacking hair.

 

The depth of the dermis and epidermis varies acrosss individuals and on each persons scalp in different places. A famous doc ( now banned) used to perform a dermal depth analysis on his patients. It would be too costly for an SMP operator, but a skilled one can see the ink spreading as well as assess the tactile feedback of the instrument as they apply ink, and then adjust for it.

 

I can't remember he depth of my dermis from the surface? but remember that Hairthere .5mm is based on the Milena formula, not that it bad, but it is temporary. I think my SMP was about 1mm deep

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  • Senior Member

Yes, that's true, .5mm is for temporary SMP, specifically Milena Lardi's equipment. Her "skin" needle, which is used for eyebrows/beard goes 2mm deep. That being said, even a tattoo needle works only as deep as the lower dermis. The bulb of the hair follicle is buried deeper, in the hypodermis, and it's the bulb which actively produces the hair.

 

scar5, where did you have your SMP performed? Has the color changed at all?

Edited by hairthere

I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in the New York area. AHEAD INK is a Milena Lardi trained clinic and uses Beauty Medical Tricopigmentation equipment and products exclusively.

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  • Senior Member

O can definitely grow hair with SMP, but SMP operators will not recommend it. It reminds me of HT clinics. It is simply not worth it for clinics to start telling people to ink and then grow, because people are unreasonable and unrealistic all over the place. There will be plenty of miss-hits and scope for embarrassment on tne web as unsatisfied clients start blowing up clinics who told them they could grow it"

 

 

 

Haiirthere,

 

At the expense I thread hijack, I can say,

 

I am not trying to be coy, but I am not going buy in to a relationship with a company or clinic on this forum, so I won't say where I have been recently. I still have more work to do and there has always been plenty to complain about as well as applaud about the operators I have dealt with. So why just say the good stuff?

 

Anyway,

 

Has the color changed?

Well, yes it has faded somewhat, and good thing I say.

 

But no, in that the actual tone hasn't changed. I wou ld describe it as a silverish grey under light, that takes on a grey, blue tone when the bright sharp lighting is not present, or when under the light of the slightly blueish fluorescent lights popular in offices. In flash camera conditions, it looks positively ridiculous in my (paranoid?) mind. Luckily, those flash conditions are rare.

 

Then there are like blotches, where a distinctly bluer or darker stain runs through it.

The dots are so small, it more or less looks like one blur. This blur does not fan out into more distinct and sparsely spaced dots, as it should. It reaches to the limits of the hairline and stops, just like I dreaded it would, just like I insisted it shouldn't, and just like I was assured it wouldn't. (Message to all SMP clients!! When operator tilts head comfortingly saying, 'I know, I know, Iknow what you dont want" translate that into your head as, "I know what you are saying, they all say the same, and I have an appointment at six, and if you think I'm gonna fiddle around here like I am Leonardo DiVinci , forget it")

 

The color also changes due to the length of my hair. As the hair grows and bleaches itself in the sun( remember HT hair bleaches easily from sunlight, because it's low density allows more light between hairs) As the hair grows it appears lighter then finally darker, so that when I have enough hair to comb over my thin crown, the SMP provides a blackish background that blends pretty well with th e darker roots coming out.

 

Biggest concern is hairline. I had touch ups on the side, and when I did I made significant progress by asking the SMP operator to change inks for the perimeter portion, as well as insisting on jagged edges, thIs worked a treat. Tis was counter to his experience, and said that many clients insist on jagged, only to return and ask for it to be flattened out. Well I can catergorically say, my own design was brilliant, at least in the sense, that it looks natural.

 

SMp has allowed me to reform my hairline with HT, when normally I would have to put any donor hair I could eek out in the crown and vertex. Instead, the lower density both in donor and recipient has allowed me to be far more aggressive.

 

Remember SMP helps you get more FUE extractions too, because you can use ink to balance up the weaker areas in the donor.

 

I can say that in my case, unequivocally, SMP works with grown out hair and I have a semi-decent slightly unnatural NW2 hairline and some very dodgy areas of growth behind.

I must also say, that despite SMP helping, I have lost two things. nice clear natural skin tones, that looked good on the sides and humps, and are now just a nebulous wall of grey. It makes me look older. Yet, when I see those empty and red zones of the past, I feel better I did it.

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  • 1 month later...

I've had SMP now for about a year and a half, and I have wrestled with this issue quite a bit. My findings are that the SMP shows up much better when shaved as close as possible- with either a zero guard or 1/16 guard. The problem with going with a one or two guard length is that SMP is dots, it is not a camoflage coat like toppik or Dermatch. Dots do not blend with hair, but they do blend with stubble. If you have a very thick/dense coat of ink I believe you can grow your hair to a 2 guard length, but then you are faced with the long-term issue of having a blanket of ink on your head, and if you lose more hair it would look kind of funny and artificial. I have very thin hair on my crown, so if I do not shave my head for a couple of days, that is the area that begins to stand out first and I appear balding again. I am thinking of going back to the clinic and having another go at it and put as much "ink density" on my scalp as possible. I feel that if you still have thin hair coverage on your scalp, and have your hairloss under control with meds, more ink is better because you need a strong color base to compensate for the bald areas. I am looking to have another session very soon, and I will definitely report back with details.

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  • Senior Member

Ken,

I wouldn't recommend darkening the crown, and I think you are over reacting (without seeing your pics, of course)

 

1) If you have a hairline, you can grow out your hair with light SMP no problems at all. Don't worry about the dots not blending with hair. Once you grow through the 'ugly-duckling' * stage you will be fine. The SMP will help you. Making it darker may create further problems.

 

* For me, this starts at about 10 days post shave and lasts until about days 50-60. Then there is a 'wow' effect as the illusion of hair and SMP kick in together. If I leave my hair at a 2 week length it is not good. but that is my situation. I am obsessive too. Too much time was spent checking mirrors and overthinking. I'm kinda cured (fingers crossed9 for now.

 

Good luck.

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Scar, thanks for the advise and for sharing your experience. I have never grown my hair for longer than 2 1/2 weeks w/ smp, so I can't really speak on what it would be like to have 1 or 2 months of growth with smp. Maybe I will try and see, but that "ugly Duckling" stage really is not fun. Yea I have worried that too thick of a coat of smp dots may be a mistake, especially in an area with so little hair coverage. I'm still on the fence about it but I may gradually add pigment, IDK :confused:. Also, congrats Scar5 on being cured and for finding an smp + fue look as well as hair length that works for you. That's what we all strive for I suppose- Self Acceptance :).

PS: I'm currently researching Permanent Makeup & Standard Tattoo Process and Results- versus- SMP tattoo clinic process and results. I may have found and easier, cheaper way to have smp done but wont know for sure until I try.

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  • Regular Member

Blurred my photos as I prefer the privacy (very self conscious)

 

Do you reckon I have still got enough hair on top to keep it a reasonable length with SMP? Say a 1 which is what I get just now. There is a guy called AJ on the HIS hair clinic website which looks pretty good with his hair grown out really long and it looks fine.

 

As for clinics is the HIS hair clinic any good? Seems to have a good reputation from what I have read.

 

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FUEOnly- As far as the USA goes, I would try one of 3 clinics-

1)NHI- amazing experience with Hair Restoration and if you are an FUE + SMP client, I would recommend going to these guys b/c Dr. Pak and Rassman understand how to tattoo scar tissue. I've seen a couple of their clients personally and results are very impressive.

2) HIS hair Clinic- Can't go wrong with these guys, Great experience and results. They have been doing SMP for over 10 years and are really committed to client satisfaction. I havent seen results in person but their forum pics look great. Id recommend these guys for clients who are simply balding, not for clients with FUE or HT scars.

3) Good Look Ink- great professional business with great results. I have seen GLI's results personally also, and theyre very impressive as well. They do a good job on HT scar camo also, but I'd still recommend a place like NHI for scars.

PS: check out Ron Shapiro Medical group in Minneapolis, I believe he may be offering SMP now.

 

MarkVincent89- You are, in my humble opinion, a great candidate for SMP. You have a good deal of remaining hair and this natural density would provide you the liberty to grow your hair longer than someone like me, who has mostly thinning hair on top. Your only potential challenge would be your temple areas, which seem to have less hair. When you grow your hair longer, light hits your naturally growing hair and there is a contrast between scalp and hair. Whether you have tattooed dots on your scalp or not, hair next to scalp equals balding. Dots are trumped by hair- THis is a fact!

 

Too many guys go into this procedure (I was one) believing that they can grow their hair to an 1/8" or 1/4" or more and the smp will cause the bald areas to match, but this just isn't so. I have said it before and I'll say it again- Dots and Hair don't match. Dots and Stubble match, and that is the intention of SMP, to match stubble. SMP was meant for a shaved head b/c the dots are meant to match the tips of stubble. When you use a concealer like Dermatch to conceal a bald spot with longer hair, do you take a pencil and dot on the makeup or do you put a sheet of it over the area? You put a put a layer of it on. SMP is not a permanent Dermatch!

Now there is a procedure for women, in which the SMP technician performs what they call a blanket method in which he/she tattoos the entire bald area- one thick layer. The intention of this method is to hide the scalp and decrease contrast between scalp and hair when light hits the scalp. But this is far different than tattooing dots.

If you are serious about having SMP I would recommend you call some clinics and consult with them (if you haven't already). If you are able to visit in person that is the best option b/c then you can see in person their body of work. There is just a lot of misinformation on the web, and you need to find your own answers. For Example: If I didnt know for myself, I would think SMP hurts very badly from reading some of these threads. LOL SMP does not hurt! I am no tough guy, I hate going to the Dentist, but SMP was a walk in the park, and several other guys I know who have had SMP say the same thing. So My best advicefor anyone interested in Hair Replication Tattoos is to learn what you can from these threads, but read with a FILTER, and try to find the real info yourself as opposed to taking stranger's word for it.

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  • Regular Member

Thanks for your response.

 

Yeah I wasn't planning on changing my hairline too much as people would notice this.

 

I would be happy just thickening up the hair I have a little and if I had to I would have no problem just shaving it right down. Trial and error I could see how it looks with a bit of length and if doesn't look right simply just shave it off!

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Thanks for your response.

 

Yeah I wasn't planning on changing my hairline too much as people would notice this.

 

I would be happy just thickening up the hair I have a little and if I had to I would have no problem just shaving it right down. Trial and error I could see how it looks with a bit of length and if doesn't look right simply just shave it off!

 

No worries Mate! You are actually quite lucky to have such thick remaining hair. Because you have so much hair, I definitely think you could grow it longer than guys like me who do not have near as much hair up there. As far as the hairline, SMP clinics usually want to recreate the hairline. My hairline that was recreated by SMP tattoo, looks so real that I honestly cannot distinguish between my stubble and the replicated tattoo follicles. I do not think anyone will notice in your case, especially with so much real hair behind it. Have you consulted with any clinics yet?

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  • Regular Member

Yeah I have decent coverage just now but most other young lads my age (24) have thick, full heads of hair which is kinda annoying!

 

Well I have a consultation with HIS in their new Glasgow clinic in the new year but I don't have the money to actually do it yet so have to wait and save a bit.

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LOL yes I know what you mean mate, I hate guys with thick full heads of hair!Good luck with the consultation, I hope all goes well with whichever clinic you decide upon. I know what you mean about the money. I had to save up for quite a while. SMP is not cheap unfortunately.

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  • 11 months later...
  • Senior Member

Hi guys , thanks for a really informative thread , I also am considering having some smp added to my scalp , just to the thinning areas on top of the scalp and crown and not lowering the hairline at all . I have had 3 quotes from HIS , Vinci and Skalp clinics , HIS hair clinic said I must shave the scalp and they would treat the whole scalp , where as both Vinci and Skalp have said they can work around the hair without shaving and would just treat the top of the scalp . Any advise would be greatly received .

Please have a look at attached pics and share your opinions

 

Thanks

image.jpg.aaaf05e1bccece895a9266e32b2d3d01.jpg

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  • Senior Member

They just basically said to get the correct appearance they would need the head shaved and a full treatment , where as the other clinics advised against pigment in the dense areas as it would make the already dense areas appear dark . ??:confused:

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