IAHRS & other similar alliances and physician groups simply Marketing tools ?

[Jinglealltheway]

We've seen these groups since the beginning. The physicians are certainly paying either a monthly or annual fee to be part of these alliances. Also it is interesting to see some forums are in cahoots with these alliances, evident by entire forums being dedicated to surgeons that are part of the alliance.

 

I understand the alliances have a code of ethics, and standards etc. but as long as the physicians meets the criteria (which isn't that difficult), but most importantly pays the Lliance his/her fee, they will be admitted into the alliance.

 

Point: there are thousands of qualified doctors out there that Meet the standards of IAHRS or similar physician groups. However only a handful of physicians are willing to pay the $.

 

Basing your decision on whether a physician is IAHRS certified is complete BS.

 

I see it more as a marketing tool for physicians.

 

I think all topics should be discussed, and all sides should be heard. What do you all think?

[Jinglealltheway]

Whaty I find even more strange is that the founder of IAHRS is Spencer Kobren, who is the founder of baldtruthtalk dot net and the host of the baldtruth radio show. does he have medical training? is he the one that OK's the members? i think there needs tombe more transparency into this alliance group if we are meant to take it seriously.

 

My concerns with the validity of quality claims of this alliance started when everyone on baldtruth and this forum would say things like "you can't go wrong with an IAHRS doc!"

 

Some transparency into the fees that IAHRS asks the physicians for, and transparency into the criteria needed to meet their standards should be public info for prospective patients.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Future_HT_Doc

[Jinglealltheway]

Let me also say that I am not against alliances, I think they can be very valuable if done right. I would just like a little info into the actual facts and details/criteria of an alliance that is meant to be taken as the industry standard, and is touted as the top tier group of

as patients, we deserve complete transparecy. our money is paying EVERYONE's bills, and we are the ones putting our scalps in the hands of physicians, so it is important to know how seriously these groups are to be taken.

[Mickey85]

Im not a fan of Spencer Kobren for several reasons. That's all i will say.

[Questionmark]

All I know is that Spencer Kobren has got a very nice mansion, I don`t know how he is making his money;-)

 

What I don`t understand is that why people like Alex Santo f.e. still can be members (of the ISHRS in this case), while they have proved lots of times that they are terrible surgeons and have no ethics at all.

[1978matt]

 

Basing your decision on whether a physician is IAHRS certified is complete BS.

 

I see it more as a marketing tool for physicians.

 

 

I prefer the ABHRS as a better indicator of whether a Dr knows what the're doing or not. However, it certainly doesn't guarrantee they have a talent in what they do.

Edited May 30, 2013 by 1978matt

[BrianR]

This site seems to be legit? They aren't censoring your post.... It's a discussion forum and sure not every doc is equal on here and there are probably better out there.... But it helps your u make a educated decision and hear what others say.....And what's wrong with someone (Kobren) living in a mansion? You some kinda Socialist? I'm guessing you voted for Obama? There is a ton of useful information on this site.....the nice thing about it is you can use it to learn a LOT about people's mistakes...

[Questionmark]

OMG please don`t bring politics in on here... But just to let you know, neither am I a socialist, nor would voting for Obama or simply stating that someone has a nice mansion implicate that, so :confused:

 

Beside, I am a german citizen, so I would not be allowed to take part in a US election

[BrianR]

OMG please don`t bring politics in on here... But just to let you know, neither am I a socialist, nor would voting for Obama or simply stating that someone has a nice mansion implicate that, so :confused:

 

Beside, I am a german citizen, so I would not be allowed to take part in a US election

Sorry, I use any chance I get to bash Obama< Socialist ....So why did you mention he lives in a mansion if it doesn't matter?

[1978matt]

Beside, I am a german citizen, so I would not be allowed to take part in a US election

 

They let that Austrian govern California for a few years so anything's possible!

[chrisdav]

Jinglealltheway,

 

The IAHRS is a list of recommended surgeons that have been screened just like the Coalition Surgeons recommended by the Hair Transplant Network.

 

The doctors pay an annual fee to be a member of the IAHRS and this information is in the public domain for anyone to see.

 

Spencer Kobren is an incredibly transparent individual. I have heard him say countless times on his weekly shows that surgery is a last resort and he strongly advocates not having surgery like himself.

 

These are very interesting first posts and I honestly would not be surprised if you had multiple aliases.

[Questionmark]

@1978matt: Lol, Arnie:-) His reputation as an intellectual being could be better around here.

 

@BrianR: Please look up the context of the posting. After all it was a joke. Perhaps my humour is too deadpan;-)?

[Nick153452]

Personally, I don't even pay attention to credentials; they mean nothing at the end of the day except that someone else thinks that you deserve something. I would go to a surgeon right out of their residency if they could prove to me that they can accomplish what I want.

[greatjob]

This site seems to be legit? They aren't censoring your post.... It's a discussion forum and sure not every doc is equal on here and there are probably better out there.... But it helps your u make a educated decision and hear what others say.....And what's wrong with someone (Kobren) living in a mansion? You some kinda Socialist? I'm guessing you voted for Obama? There is a ton of useful information on this site.....the nice thing about it is you can use it to learn a LOT about people's mistakes...

 

Dude this is the second time I am aware of that you have tried to bring your right wing ideology onto this site. Please for the benefit of the entire forum put down the wine bottle, turn off Hannity, and leave your political beliefs at the door. This is a hairloss forum not an Obama is a socialist/fascist/Muslim/Kenyan who wants to destroy America forum. You don't go to a baseball forum to discuss basketball, and I don't go to a hairloss forum to hear what some nut-job has to say about politics.

 

As far as the IAHRS is concerned IMO it is a joke. You pay the fee and you get the certification there is little to no review of the doctors reputation or body of work. I am a member of the bald truth talk as well and I find it funny and ironic because they accuse this forum as being biased, however I have never been censored on this site, but I challenge anyone to go on that site and post anything negative about Dr. Gho or the legitimacy of Kobren or the bald truth talk, it will be deleted within two hours with no mention or explanation. The IAHRS is full of hacks. I still believe this site is the best way to find a reputable HT surgeon bar none. Are there doctors not recommended here who are great, sure, but this is the only coalition of HT surgeons that evaluates the doctors continuously and will remove doctors that no longer meet the standards that the HTN has put forward.

[Mickey85]

Dude this is the second time I am aware of that you have tried to bring your right wing ideology onto this site. Please for the benefit of the entire forum put down the wine bottle, turn off Hannity, and leave your political beliefs at the door. This is a hairloss forum not an Obama is a socialist/fascist/Muslim/Kenyan who wants to destroy America forum. You don't go to a baseball forum to discuss basketball, and I don't go to a hairloss forum to hear what some nut-job has to say about politics.

 

As far as the IAHRS is concerned IMO it is a joke. You pay the fee and you get the certification there is little to no review of the doctors reputation or body of work. I am a member of the bald truth talk as well and I find it funny and ironic because they accuse this forum as being biased, however I have never been censored on this site, but I challenge anyone to go on that site and post anything negative about Dr. Gho or the legitimacy of Kobren or the bald truth talk, it will be deleted within two hours with no mention or explanation. The IAHRS is full of hacks. I still believe this site is the best way to find a reputable HT surgeon bar none. Are there doctors not recommended here who are great, sure, but this is the only coalition of HT surgeons that evaluates the doctors continuously and will remove doctors that no longer meet the standards that the HTN has put forward.

 

This. IAHRS supports a surgeon who relied on another surgeon(whose licence was suspended and was a drug addict) to perform the bulk of the work. Im not even going to get started on Kobren own ethics and affiliations...

[TakingThePlunge]

I'm happy to weigh in here. As an employee of HTN, I recognize that conspiracy theorists will say I'm biased and my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt but it's important to recall that I came here first as a hair loss sufferer looking for help just like everyone else. I stayed and ultimately applied for a position because of what I found here. It's been an invaluable resource for me and being privy to all that goes on behind the scenes to maintain and grow it has only given me more appreciation and respect for what Pat and Bill have established.

 

I cannot speak on behalf of the IAHRS or their criteria but, to quote Bill in a recent post,

 

"The IAHRS (International Alliance of Hair Restoration Surgery) is an organization that prescreens and recommends hair transplant surgeons based on their own set of standards. In that way, they are similar to us. While I cannot speak for the standards they use to prescreen surgeons, it does appear that their prescreening process is much more private and lacks the kind of transparency and public accountability that ours has."

 

The Hair Transplant Network recognizes two distinct levels of recommendation and our standards for each are publicly available and explained in detail. You can view them here.

 

We are also transparent regarding the funding of this valuable and informative site.

 

How this online community is funded. Those surgeons who are carefully reviewed and chosen for recommendation on this site contribute a monthly fee to co-sponsor this online community and display their before and after photos, videos and contact information.

 

 

One important fact that needs to be emphasized is that no one can buy our recommendation. We frequently get requests from clinics that simply do not meet our rigid recommendation standards or are unwilling to open themselves up to the kind of public scrutiny and critique necessary to complete the process.

 

 

Another important point contained on our recommendation criteria page is the below,

 

Important Note - The hair restoration physicians recommended on this site are not a definitive list of all excellent hair transplant doctors. Nor do we warranty or guaranty the results of any of the physicians presented on this site. As always, we encourage you to do your due diligence in evaluating these and all hair loss physicians.

 

I don't believe that any thinking individual would take any single review about anything (much less surgery) as gospel. In fact, we encourage anyone seeking surgical hair restoration to spend a considerable amount of time carefully researching not only our community but others like it. We also recommend meeting real patients in person if possible and consulting with multiple surgeons.

 

Having said that, what I can say with certainly is that, when a physician is recommended by this community, they are verified to be performing state of the art, follicular unit hair transplantation. They are skilled, experienced and ethical and they are among the finest in their field. Beyond that, each individual needs to determine who is the best surgeon to meet their specific needs and desires.

[BrianR]

Dude this is the second time I am aware of that you have tried to bring your right wing ideology onto this site. Please for the benefit of the entire forum put down the wine bottle, turn off Hannity, and leave your political beliefs at the door. This is a hairloss forum not an Obama is a socialist/fascist/Muslim/Kenyan who wants to destroy America forum. You don't go to a baseball forum to discuss basketball, and I don't go to a hairloss forum to hear what some nut-job has to say about politics.

 

As far as the IAHRS is concerned IMO it is a joke. You pay the fee and you get the certification there is little to no review of the doctors reputation or body of work. I am a member of the bald truth talk as well and I find it funny and ironic because they accuse this forum as being biased, however I have never been censored on this site, but I challenge anyone to go on that site and post anything negative about Dr. Gho or the legitimacy of Kobren or the bald truth talk, it will be deleted within two hours with no mention or explanation. The IAHRS is full of hacks. I still believe this site is the best way to find a reputable HT surgeon bar none. Are there doctors not recommended here who are great, sure, but this is the only coalition of HT surgeons that evaluates the doctors continuously and will remove doctors that no longer meet the standards that the HTN has put forward.

I wasn't drinking wine (If I was, I would have said I was) And as for me mentioning Obama<Socialist, That's to bad, apparently you have read 2 post of mine that I mentioned Politics? Its easy, If you see my name (BrianR) Don't read it!!!!See how easy I fixed your problem? And it seems you talked more about me talking politics, then I actually talked politics?

[Questionmark]

@BrianR:

 

This thread is about to discuss the IAHRS and other similar alliances, not your personal disagreements with anyone. So if you have to relieve yourself, please address those kind of issues in a PM, thank you.

[Shampoo]

And it seems you talked more about me talking politics, then I actually talked politics?

 

Exactly my thoughts. He talked twice as much politics as you did!

 

And TakingThePlunge pretty much sums up the how one should use these types of websites/organizations in making thier OWN decision about hair restoration and which doctor they choose.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Jinglealltheway,

 

While I wouldn't exactly compare us to the IAHRS for several reasons, we do prescreen and recommend hair transplant physicians on this website. In that respect, we are similar to the IAHRS. Physicians recommended by this community also do pay a sponsorship fee to support this patient based community. Our standards for recommendation and the fact that physicians recommended by this website pay a sponsorship fee is all publicly disclosed on our physician selection standards page.

 

While I don't know the exact process physician members of the IAHRS go through, our process for recommendation is very transparent. I encourage you to view the discussion topic "How We Recommend Hair Transplant Surgeons".

 

This community doesn't take advertising money from any physician/clinic interested in joining. In fact, we are regularly contacted by clinics and physicians about becoming members however, only those who can show a demonstrated ability of producing excellent results are invited to join.

 

A physician's experience, credentials, technique and results are all evaluated during the prescreening process. Moreover, members of this community are invited to weigh in on all potential recommendations. This is recently evidenced by the discussion topic "Potential Recommendation of Dr. Raghu Reddy of London, England".

 

Like an Ivy League University who only accepts the brightest students, we prescreen and recommend only hair restoration surgeons who meet our high standards. Similarly, just as students who've been accepted and choose to enroll must pay tuition, physicians who've been approved for recommendation by this community and choose to join and must pay a sponsorship fee. Sponsorship fees enable us to continue providing this valuable resource free of charge to hair loss sufferers seeking support and valuable information.

 

While no system is perfect, we are very transparent about how we recommend surgeons and do our best to provide valuable recommendations based on standards set by this community. We also encourage all patients to thoroughly research all physicians they are considering and make their own conclusion as to which surgeon is the right one for them.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[chrisdav]

This topic is obviously designed to bash competitive organisations which I don't find it to be professional and undermines the credibility of this forum/organisation by allowing it to happen in my opinion. It is not something I like to see across any forum whatsoever.

 

I have stated in the past that I recommend this forum is one of a very few limited resources to other potential patients doing their research.

 

There are some less known forums that ironically started as a result of them being against specific components of the philosophy and business conduct of sites based on this model. No one will ever see eye to eye as is evident on any of the forums on a daily basis and there will always be a great deal of hypocrisy on such topics. It reflects badly and facilitates a platform for "pot shots" and you could argue that the topic was solely designed for this purpose. This is my opinion from a standpoint and is given as feedback.

 

The main core of Coalition recommended surgeons and IAHRS essentially coincide and are very very similar but of course there will be surgeons that deviate from the "household" names on both lists. For me personally, I would have both lists refined as there are not many surgeons I would trust with the limited amount of donor supply of my own hair.

 

I am not going to lie and say that questions have not come into my mind recently regarding "The Screening Process" which is one of the key functions of a forum. I believed the process initially to be very rigid but it appears not to be the case and now clinics are being recommended in a matter of days. This is not what I was originally led to believe when I started doing my research when I was looking for a surgeon a few a years back. I thought the clinics were investigated deeply, personally visited and intense scrutiny was applied as to be a member is a honour and privilege. I have not commented on this previously as it is my own observation, but based on a few average pictures posted bu different clinics that can easily be manipulated and doctored, it is not good in my eyes and now I question other surgeons that were previously recommended so quickly before I started using the forums to do my own research.

 

It is fully understandable and appreciated that the community get their opinion for input which is good and I promote that but does it really count? Or is the business of making money at the forefront? It is not the most comprehensive screening process in my opinion but better than most around. There is no doubt that the Coalition and IAHRS have both provided a great deal of guidance and support to many over the years whom would otherwise been harmed like myself. They are currently and undoubtedly the best resources around.

 

Having topics such as this about other organisations or individuals with attempted slurring that can allow anonymous people play potential transparent games is just as much a flaw in the forum housing these antics. It is an incredible shame that often information is distorted, manipulated and hence giving an inaccurate false tangent that is allowed to perpetuate especially considering the root and the catalyst.

 

If I was running and moderating a forum, which I definitely appreciate is not easy, I would not tolerate these types of topics as I would want to maintain integrity and use them for the purpose they were designed for.

 

Coward posters should stand up, use their real names and show the identities if they want to be taken seriously or have any credibility in my eyes and not post as anonymous, unsavoury characters behind a screen. Anyone can post anonymously.

[Bill - Seemiller]

ChrisDav,

 

I appreciate your detailed response to this topic. However, simply removing this topic rather than addressing it would make it appear that we are sweeping legitimate questions/concerns under the carpet. As an organization that's "similar" to the IAHRS, simply removing the topic would make it appear like we're not being transparent. My and Dave's response focused on our community, not the IAHRS. I've admitted upfront that I don't know all the details of what surgeons go through at the IAHRS to become recommended.

 

That said, I want to respond to your comment below:

 

I believed the process initially to be very rigid but it appears not to be the case and now clinics are being recommended in a matter of days. This is not what I was originally led to believe when I started doing my research when I was looking for a surgeon a few a years back. I thought the clinics were investigated deeply, personally visited and intense scrutiny was applied as to be a member is a honour and privilege.

 

While it may appear that surgeons are recommended in a matter of days to you, you really have no idea what we go through behind the scenes when prescreening surgeons. As I recently told "Mickey85" on Skype, it sometimes takes months or even years of privately contacting and prescreening physicians before even publicly presenting them for potential recommendation.

 

As I'm sure you can tell by the lengthy topics when presenting a physician for potential recommendation, we go through great lengths to obtain as much information about a surgeon, their technique and their credentials. This includes privately collecting and evaluating examples of their results, researching each physician, private interviews, input from surgeons already recommended by our community and finally, publcly cultivating input from forum members. Visiting and observing physicians/clinics in live surgery is also sometimes part of the review process. See "Visits to Leading Hair Transplant Clinics". However, as I'm sure you can imagine, it's not always practical to visit every clinic.

 

By the time a physician is publicly presented for potential recommendation on this community, 95% of the prescreening work has already been done.

 

Coward posters should stand up, use their real names and show the identities if they want to be taken seriously or have any credibility in my eyes and not post as anonymous, unsavoury characters behind a screen. Anyone can post anonymously.

 

Unfortunately, the anonymity of a discussion forum enables members to hide behind bold statements rather than standing tall and using their true identities. While I agree that members posting controversial questions should have the decency to identify themselves, it's not the nature of a discussion forum to do so.

 

And with due respect, you also use an anonymous name and have made several bold statements regarding the way you think we recommend surgeons quickly. Would you care to publicly provide your first and last name on this forum? :-)

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Also, keep in mind that we aren't forcing anyone to visit or undergo surgery with one of our recommended physicians. Our recommendations however, are based on standards and despite differences in physicians' philophies, I feel confident in each of their abilities to produce excellent, natural looking results.

 

If we were truly interested in becoming a rich company, we could simply accept advertising money and promote any and all clinics willing to pay a monthly fee. Many forums operate that way and that's their prerogative. However, I prefer to keep this site free from banners and links to physicians/clinics that haven't shown an demonstrated ability of excellent results.

 

Bill

[Mickey85]

I do believe this forum to be the best in what it does. There is one forum where you cannot even bring up that Armani's licence was revoked in North America(Armani obviously sponsors that site). The IAHRS supports a surgeon who had a patient undergo 12,000 grafts over 15 days(the result was terrible) that was performed by a surgeon who not only had his licence suspended for more than a year at the time, but was also addicted to an assortment of narcotics. Now if I know this dirty little secret, than I'm sure Spencer Kobren knows this dirty little secret.

 

This forum has the right balance in my opinion. Yes, surgeons have to pay a fee to be recommended, but there have been many surgeons that have been knocked back publicly and even more privately. We know Bhatti and Keser were not recommended and neither were Umar and Maras initially. So I do believe there is quality control. It would be amazing if mods were sent out personally to visit the clinics, seeing procedures in real time etc but I do not think that is viable given how many surgeons contact Bill and Pat.

 

I have been VERY impressed with this forum in the last 18 months. With the additions of Mwamba, Bisganga, Hakan, Maras and most likely Reddy, I think they have maintained their quality control. I did not agree with Diep but you can't please everyone and many people like his work.

 

In regards to the IAHRS... I've said enough for now.

[chrisdav]

Apologies for presuming it was a matter of days. It goes to show despite what you think, your not always in possession of all the facts.

 

Bill, you know what my ugly mug looks like as I have posted countless full face pictures from early on in my experience of documenting my case and revealing my identity. I have done this as I when I was doing my research, I always wanted ideally to see that and hopefully it starts a trend.

 

My full name is Chris Davies, 27, from Gloucestershire in the Uk. It is incorporated partially in my profile name "Chrisdav".

 

I have heard Kobren mention numerous times on his radio show that IAHRS members pay a monthly fee of $1200 but I can't find any reference to the fees for the Coalition or recommendation but I am guessing they are similar?

 

As I have said the past, I think this forum is excellent, a great platform and something that I am eternally grateful for and on that basis; I paid tribute to in my 12 month updates on my thread.

 

I like the transparency and want that to remain as I have been a victim like a lot of young guys are and just wish that any anonymous posters weren't allowed to detract from all the good that these resources provide.