FUE with NeoGraft 12 Days Ago...

[HopingForTheBest]

Hey everyone, it's my first post- YAY!

The downside is, now I'm reading some negative crap about NeoGraft, and I'm looking to hear from someone, here, who has gone through with it, too.

 

12 days ago I had 2000 grafts, via NeoGraft, fill in a small spot the size of a silver dollar on the back of my head, a little bit on top that's been thinning out over the years, and lowered my frontal hairline to a reasonable level for someone 42- nothing too dramatic.

 

I've been reading about crusting, and shock loss, but am concerned- is it normal to see transplanted hairs, at 12 days, coming out from the implanted space, as occurs due to shock loss? My concern's generated from the fact that what's fallen out looks more than just hair and crust.

 

I'm signing off to get a pic from my phone on here...

[HopingForTheBest]

I seem to be having difficulty getting a pic from my phone, to here... I'll have to get back to you with a pic of what I've collected from the sink. Sounds gross. LOL

[tacolinowest]

what exactly is the difference between neograft and regular follicular unit?

[Mickey85]

Neograft is a device used to extract grafts champ. Its in my manual vs fue thread with video too.

[HopingForTheBest]

FUE using NeoGraft is still harvesting individual hairs, but it's more robotic- the device is an extension of the surgeons hands, supposedly allowing for more accurate harvesting of hair follicles, one at a time. There is no linear scar, like what's associated with FUT, though some argue the device actually harms follicles with its sucking motion, upon removal of a hair. Others tout it as the next best thing.

 

I think whether using FUT, FUE, or FUE with NeoGraft, in the end, the results will be dependent mostly on the experience of those cutting you.

 

That's the side of me trying to remain positive.

 

The worried side of me thinks I "jumped the gun" and have become a NeoGraft guinea pig.

 

As we all know too well, only time will tell.

[Blake Bloxham]

Hoping,

 

Like a few others stated, the NeoGraft is simply a tool used to complete Follicular Unit Extraction (FUE). What's more, I agree with you that it is the skill of the physician, not the tool he or she uses that determines the result of a hair transplant procedure. However, I do think you mentioned in another post that you had technicians actually perform the extraction phase?

 

What's more, at 12 days post-op, the grafts are supposed to fall out and you are not suffering from shock loss. The grafts will start to shed between day 10 and month 2, and new hair growth will begin around month 3.

 

Also, I agree that you should remain relaxed and positive. Hair transplant procedures take a full 12 months to fully grow and mature, so spending an excessive amount of time worrying at this phase isn't overly useful. Frankly, it's common, but the best thing you can do (for now) is relax, monitor your results, follow your post-operative instructions carefully, and fully evaluate the results at the 12 month mark.

 

If you have any additional questions or concerns, please feel free to ask. What's more, if you need anything else, feel free to send me a private message.

 

Thanks!

[HopingForTheBest]

Thanks, Future, for your timely responses, and helpful, positive information.

 

I kept coming across articles referring to shock loss [of transplanted hair, not native] occurring around the 30 day mark, "give or take."

 

I'll try not to freak out TOO MUCH at this point. LOL

 

I know this is a [somewhat] lengthy process, but facing an office of 7,500 [hospital staff] with shock loss, when you've been concealing your hair loss for a decade [with Toppik] is a "tough pill to swallow."

 

I'll have one more week, of a three week vacation, to figure out how I'm going to deal with returning to work.

[Sparky]

who is you Dr?

[HopingForTheBest]

who is you Dr?

Dr.'s Bassin and Mendoza, and Lead Tech Patrick Tafoya.

[GreatPelo]

Just took a look at your doctors' website. Neither one has a word of experience nor training in hair transplants. This looks to be a case where the Tech did most/all the work...is that correct??? It's always recommended to go with a hair specialist. Hopefully you'll get the result you are expecting.

 

Wishing you great results!!!

[lorenzo]

One of the reasons I don't like NEOGRAFT is it appears they will sell it anyone. It appears many doctors that I never done hair transplants are trying it with no other experience in hair transplants at all. Up to now I have never seen a great NEOGRAFT result only average at best. None of the world top FUE doctors use it which is enough for me. Why wouldn't a doctor want to use a machine that they say makes things a lot easier. Its probably because they don't believe in it.

Regardless I wish you the best and hope you have a fantastic result.

[GreatPelo]

It would be interesting if someone ever took the time to do some statistical research on the % of doctors using the NeoGraft....bet about 80%+ are not hair transplant specialists who are adding it as one more service and don't even partake much during the procedure....letting techs do all the work..including harvesting, site creation, etc....

 

This is due to the aggressive marketing by the company to these non-specialist and now the aggressive marketing of independent techs offering their services to these non specialist doctors...offering their services....

 

VERY DANGEROUS TO PATIENTS...I think in a year or two we'll be getting more patient reviews on their NeoGraft results....Standing by.....

[Dr. William Lindsey]

Interested readers may wish to google Mr. Tafoya and his training center.

 

Prior to making the commitment to really focus on hair, I too was tempted to utilize staff to fly in and help. I had one fellow that I used for several years but he only helped one other practice and me. And I did the case...he just helped my small staff cut grafts.

 

But, it became clear that to get good, I had to do big cases, and I had to have a staff full time. Expensive but worth it.

 

Hair is a very difficult field to get going in. The doctor is stuck with not having staff to do big cases...and in order to get good staff you have to do big cases regularly. Then, once you have done a few big cases...it takes a year to get pictures. Its tough..I know.

 

Every week I get an email from techs looking to help or do an entire case.

 

Recently I was involved as an expert reviewer on a hair case where essentially the doctor was not involved in the case whatsoever...except collecting the payment. Interestingly the case did not dispute the results..which were moderate, just the point that the doctor contracted with was alledgely not involved.

 

The great thing about forums like this are that you, the prospective patient, can get alot of information to help make a wise choice. Now, not everything you read on this site or any site will be true..but I suspect if you find a doctor that makes nobody happy..probably have second thoughts. If you find someone who makes everybody happy..same thing. NOBODY hits a homerun every time. But if you can find a practice that seems to have a good track record, and has a reasonable reputation on this and other forums...now that is a practice worth considering further.

 

I don't know this practice that you went to and they are facial plastic surgeons, just like me. Results take time. Keep involved in the forum and share your results. And be patient.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA

[HairLossPatient]

Hey everyone, it's my first post- YAY!

The downside is, now I'm reading some negative crap about NeoGraft, and I'm looking to hear from someone, here, who has gone through with it, too.

 

12 days ago I had 2000 grafts, via NeoGraft, fill in a small spot the size of a silver dollar on the back of my head, a little bit on top that's been thinning out over the years, and lowered my frontal hairline to a reasonable level for someone 42- nothing too dramatic.

 

I've been reading about crusting, and shock loss, but am concerned- is it normal to see transplanted hairs, at 12 days, coming out from the implanted space, as occurs due to shock loss? My concern's generated from the fact that what's fallen out looks more than just hair and crust.

 

I'm signing off to get a pic from my phone on here...

HopingForTheBest,

Hope you are seeing great progress since you first posted one month ago. I have scheduled

an appointment with the same clinic (but in orlando) where the lead technician patrick tofoya will be performing the transplant (Neograft). Can you please shed some insight on how your procedure went and your experience so far? I am eagerly looking forward to your response.

[greatjob]

HopingForTheBest,

Hope you are seeing great progress since you first posted one month ago. I have scheduled

an appointment with the same clinic (but in orlando) where the lead technician patrick tofoya will be performing the transplant (Neograft). Can you please shed some insight on how your procedure went and your experience so far? I am eagerly looking forward to your response.

 

Man I would highly recommend you cancel that appointment. I would never consider having a procedure with any clinic that was questionable.

[nathaniel]

Dr. Lindsey,

 

Do you use the Neograft machine?

[nathaniel]

Up to now I have never seen a great NEOGRAFT result only average at best. None of the world top FUE doctors use it which is enough for me.

 

Lorenzo, Is that because of the extraction process is flawed? Or because the techs don't have the skill to create the incision sites and transplant the hairs? I mean....if the techs are the skilled ones, shouldn't they know how to do it properly?

[Blake Bloxham]

Dr. Lindsey,

 

Do you use the Neograft machine?

 

Nathaniel,

 

I'm fairly certain he uses a motorized punch designed by Dr. Alan Feller. To my knowledge, the only recommended physician who uses the NeoGraft machine is Dr. Michael Vories.

[nathaniel]

Nathaniel,

 

I'm fairly certain he uses a motorized punch designed by Dr. Alan Feller. To my knowledge, the only recommended physician who uses the NeoGraft machine is Dr. Michael Vories.

 

 

Future_HT_Doc,

 

Thanks for the clarification, but what is the difference in the way the neograft and the motorized punch designed by Dr. Feller operate? Does the motorized punch have a higher successful extraction rate? I mean....again.....is Lorenzo's claim that he hasn't seen any great hair transplants because of the tool used to extract the hairs, or the skill of the person implanting the extracted hairs?

 

Also, Future_HT-Doc, maybe you could clarify, GreatPelo writes:

 

"bet about 80%+ are not hair transplant specialists who are adding it as one more service and don't even partake much during the procedure....letting techs do all the work..including harvesting, site creation, etc...."

 

Of course, GreatPelo says "BET"...so he's just surmising, but as a non-medical person I'm confused - I thought doctors had to do residencies in fields for a number of years before they could practice in it. I mean, can a GP/Family doctor just decide that he's going to do brain surgeries to make more money and then start offering his services in this field the next day?? I know that's kind of a silly illustration, but I had assumed that doctors had to be extensively trained in a particular field before the could work in that area....????

[TygerD]

I had a transplant done by Neograft. Perhaps only 40% of over 1100 grafts grew. Neograft is often prefaced as "just a tool" and the skill of the surgeon comes into play yada yada but I don't buy that. Anyone can practically use this thing. Most of my grafts were DOA because they were transected and didn't survive the neograft extraction. I certainly wouldn't advise anyone with coarse hair due to the curly nature of the root to undergo Neograft. Pick your favorite surgeon and put the same tool in his hand and I don't see my outcome as being any different.

[Blake Bloxham]

Future_HT_Doc,

 

Thanks for the clarification, but what is the difference in the way the neograft and the motorized punch designed by Dr. Feller operate? Does the motorized punch have a higher successful extraction rate? I mean....again.....is Lorenzo's claim that he hasn't seen any great hair transplants because of the tool used to extract the hairs, or the skill of the person implanting the extracted hairs?

 

I've always personally believed that it is the skill of the physician, not the tool he/she uses, that determines the outcome of a hair transplant procedure. Having said that, I wanted to clarify a few things:

 

Difference between NeoGraft/Feller Advanced Instruments FUE:

 

-The Feller instrument uses a slower oscillating head with a smaller arc radius. This aims at reducing the "torsion, tension, friction, and heat" associated with other motorized devices. According to Dr. Feller, these four elements are byproducts of many manual FUE tools, and are responsible for graft damage and lower yield.

 

-The Feller instrument utilizes a blunt punch; I believe the NeoGraft uses a sharp punch (there are advantages and disadvantages to both).

 

-The Feller instrument uses a patented "perforation" technique, which gently loosens the graft and prepares it for removal.

 

-The actual removal of follicular units is not accomplished with the Feller instrument. The tool simply loosens the grafts. The grafts are then extracted with forceps. The NeoGraft, if used as intended, has a mechanism that actually extracts the grafts via tube suction. Some believe this causes excessive drying and trauma to the grafts.

 

Personally, I've seen some impressive NeoGraft results from Dr. Vories. However, I personally believe this is because Dr. Vories is a dedicated FUE expert, not because he uses a certain tool.

 

Also, Future_HT-Doc, maybe you could clarify, GreatPelo writes:

 

"bet about 80%+ are not hair transplant specialists who are adding it as one more service and don't even partake much during the procedure....letting techs do all the work..including harvesting, site creation, etc...."

 

 

Of course, GreatPelo says "BET"...so he's just surmising, but as a non-medical person I'm confused - I thought doctors had to do residencies in fields for a number of years before they could practice in it. I mean, can a GP/Family doctor just decide that he's going to do brain surgeries to make more money and then start offering his services in this field the next day?? I know that's kind of a silly illustration, but I had assumed that doctors had to be extensively trained in a particular field before the could work in that area....????

 

After medical school, physicians complete residencies and fellowships (ranging anywhere from 3-10 years) to further train and "specialize" in their field of choice. Interestingly enough, however, your point about the Family Medicine doctor practicing Neurosurgery is more true that you may expect. Physician licenses are unrestricted licenses to practice medicine and surgery. This means that TECHNICALLY (and I'm being a bit hyperbolic here) a GP could practice Neurosurgery without breaking the law. However, it would be WILDLY unethical and impossible from a malpractice insurance and hospital privilege perspective for a physician without training in Neurosurgery to do this.

 

Cosmetic surgery is a bit different. Technically, there is no residency program that trains exclusively in cosmetic medicine and surgery. Because of this, it is frequently practiced by physicians from a variety of disciplines who obtain additional training in cosmetic procedures. While you would never see a Family Medicine doctor performing Neurosurgery, it's not uncommon at all to see a Family Medicine doctor who offers Botox.

 

Hair transplantation falls under a similar domain. However, patient advocate sites (like our network), certifying organizations, and physicians who train others in hair restoration have worked hard to standardize hair transplantation. Regardless, you will still see physicians from a variety of backgrounds who chose to seek additional training in hair transplant surgery.

 

However, the point Pelo was making is a bit different:

 

Pelo was commenting on the difference between specializing in hair restoration and offering hair transplantation as an ancillary procedure in a medical office. Physicians who specialize in hair restoration do still come from a variety of backgrounds (Dermatology, Plastic Surgery, Facial Plastic Surgery, General Surgery, Family Medicine, Internal Medicine, Emergency Medicine, etc, etc), but these physicians have spent additional time (in a fellowship or preceptorship setting) training in hair transplant surgery. After this training, these doctors opened practices exclusively dedicated to hair restoration. After years of practice and thousands of impressive "before and after" results, these physicians are true hair transplant experts. This is a little different than a physician who offers a variety of cosmetic procedures and decides to bring hair transplantation into a practice on top of the other procedures. Now, I'm NOT saying that this automatically equates to low quality work. However, I'm simply trying to explain Pelo's point and illustrate the difference.

 

Lastly, I did want to state that the key (in my opinion) to a successful hair transplant procedure is loads of research and complete confidence by the time you reach that chair. I greatly encourage you to continue asking questions and researching at our network, and I do hope we can help you feel completely confident with your decision.

 

I hope this helps. Look forward to more questions!

[nathaniel]

Thank you Blake and Tyger for your responses.

 

Tyger I am sorry for your poor outcome. I've read your history and threads. Do you feel your poor outcomes are a result of the Neograft machine itself or poor technique on the part of the doctor and his techs/assistants? Or a combination of both?

 

Personally, I've seen some impressive NeoGraft results from Dr. Vories. However, I personally believe this is because Dr. Vories is a dedicated FUE expert, not because he uses a certain tool.

 

Blake, when you say "personally" do you mean you've met in person former hair transplant patients of Dr. Vories/Neograft and examined the results? Or do you mean based on the pictures of his work posted on this site, it is your "personal" opinion that his NeoGraft results are "impressive"?

 

I've found Mickey's link on manual and motorized punches very informative - though not sure if it has helped me to actually come to any definitive conclusions! One thing, though, is the Artas system much newer than Neograft? How long have the two systems been around?

[Blake Bloxham]

Blake, when you say "personally" do you mean you've met in person former hair transplant patients of Dr. Vories/Neograft and examined the results? Or do you mean based on the pictures of his work posted on this site, it is your "personal" opinion that his NeoGraft results are "impressive"?

 

I've found Mickey's link on manual and motorized punches very informative - though not sure if it has helped me to actually come to any definitive conclusions! One thing, though, is the Artas system much newer than Neograft? How long have the two systems been around?

 

Nathaniel,

 

I've only reviewed his work on these discussion forums. However, during the recommendation process, Dr. Vories provided dozens of examples of his quality FUE work, and I was definitely not the only one impressed. In fact, it was the impressive nature of his results that led to his recommendation.

 

Mickey's manual/motorized FUE tool information is fantastic. I highly encourage you to read all his threads.

 

The ARTAS is newer than the NeoGraft. However, one is not significantly newer than the other. The ARTAS received FDA safety approval (for men) in 2011, and I think the NeoGraft was introduced only a few years prior. However, they are very different devices. And, again, I don't think many recommend undergoing a surgery based strictly upon the tool the surgeon uses. While it is important (and something to factor into the overall decision), the skill of the physician and his team is truly what "makes" a result in the end.

[Bill - Seemiller]

nathanial,

 

Since you are interested in learning more about various extraction devices, I recommend reading content we recently published on the Hair Transplant Network on follicular unit extraction. In particular, I recommend reading the following pages:

 

"Manual Versus Motorized Extraction Devices"

 

"Sharp Versus Blunt Punches"

 

"NeoGraft Hair Transplant"

 

"ARTAS Hair Restoration System"

 

We will also soon be publishing information on implantation techniques and devices and the physicians who use them.

 

You did however, hit on a key concept - the information won't give you a definitive answer as to which technique and device is better. This is because world renowned surgeons have their own preferences and use various tools all with excellent results. That said, the same tools in inexperienced hands can lead to poor results no matter how advanced the tool.

 

I hope this helps,

 

Bill

[nathaniel]

Thank you, Bill, they've been great reads!

 

I'm curious about the Hans Implanter as described in Dr. Vories' link from the Neograft page. Is the Hans Implanter the implanter used on the Neograft in the Neograft video in Mickey85's FUE thread? Does the Neograft video show "Stick and Place" with the Hans Implanter?

 

 

Also, speaking of "Stick and Place," I wonder if you could clarify/expound on what you wrote below at this link: What is the “Stick and Place” Technique in a Hair Transplant | Hair Loss Q & A

 

I believe that the stick and place technique can yield excellent results when performed by well trained and supervised medical technicians. However, I found both the incisions made by the 19 gauge needles and the grafts to be a bit larger than what I typically see at leading hair restoration clinics who have fully implemented ultra refined follicular unit grafting.

 

How big is a 19 gauge needle??? And how much bigger are the grafts? And what does "fully implemented ultra refined follicular unit grafting" mean? It sounds like you are describing a technique or method. Is the "Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians" using a completely different technique - an ascribed method - from Recommended Doctors on the Hair Restoration Network? Or have they just demonstrated a higher level of innate artistry and mastery of skill?

 

Thanks again for this forum!